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Unions Slam Deficit Panel Proposal As Gateway To Outsourcing

First Posted: 12/02/10 12:09 PM ET Updated: 05/25/11 07:15 PM ET

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WASHINGTON -- Hoping to trip up or, at the very least, change the language of the president's deficit commission proposal, labor leaders claim that specific recommendations could accelerate the outsourcing of U.S. jobs overseas.

In multiple forums and venues in recent days, some of the top union officials in the country have begun airing deep concerns about the Bowles-Simpson proposal to shift to a "competitive territorial tax system" -- a tax structure that effectively exempts foreign profits from domestic tax laws.

"There is no question that this incentivizes outsourcing, and that's the opposite direction from the one we want to be going in," AFL-CIO Deputy Chief of Staff Thea Lee argued, during an interview with The Huffington Post. "It's directly contrary to how we should change our tax system. We need to change our tax code to remove incentives for offshoring. This changes the tax code to greatly enhance the corporate tax incentive."

"Every member of the commission needs to take this into account," Lee added. "We don't think that it's gotten enough attention. We didn't give it enough attention in our initial press statement because it took a little while to drill down."

Leo Gerard, president of the United Steelworkers (USW), was a bit blunter, calling the idea "absolute financial insanity" during an appearing on MSNBC's "The Ed Show" on Wednesday evening.

Andy Stern, the former president of the SEIU and a member of the deficit commission himself, took a slightly more diplomatic tact -- though one that still exhibited his concerns about the potential for outsourcing. On Thursday morning, he released his own deficit reduction recommendations, with a specific alteration to the tax structure that Simpson and Bowles proposed.

"There is concern of tremendous leakage possibilities in revenue and jobs in a shift to Territorial taxation," Stern's proposal reads, "and, therefore, a failsafe revenue mechanism needs to be developed, and a review and certification by the Treasury Dept. that the system designed does not accelerate job loss."

That Big Labor would launch a late-stage campaign to shine a spotlight on the outsourcing potential of the president's deficit commission is not in and of itself surprising. Unions have emphatically opposed the commission's proposals, going back to when the two chairs put out an early draft several weeks back; though that doesn't necessarily explain Lee and Gerard's outspokenness. Fighting outsourcing has always been a labor priority.

The deficit commission tries to offset these concerns by reducing corporate tax rates in the United States -- an incentive, of sorts, to get companies to keep jobs based domestically. But Lee scoffed at the idea that this was a fair trade-off. "It could [keep jobs here]," she said, "but there's never been any evidence that it's been effective."

How these union officials came to home in on the territorial tax system provision is however a bit interesting. The angle didn't come from inside their policy shops or from labor economists. Rather, it appears to have come from Rep. Brad Sherman (D-Calif.), a senior member of the House Committee on Financial Services. The California Democrat has been sounding the alarm about that specific tax policy for days, both in print and television. And according to both Lee and Stern, he brought the concern to their attention as well.

Sherman's office confirmed this account. "[He] has spoken to labor leaders about his concerns," a spokesman said.

The fact that members of Congress are already making the case that the deficit commission would be a gateway for outsourcing suggests that the wheels are in motion to stop the proposal in its track. Outsourcing, among deficit reduction and job creation, was one of the biggest motivators in the 2010 elections (see: Sen. Blanche Lincoln's primary win). And members are acutely aware of that heading into 2012.

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WASHINGTON -- Hoping to trip up or, at the very least, change the language of the president's deficit commission proposal, labor leaders claim that specific recommendations could accelerate the outsou...
WASHINGTON -- Hoping to trip up or, at the very least, change the language of the president's deficit commission proposal, labor leaders claim that specific recommendations could accelerate the outsou...
 
 
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COMMUNITY PUNDITS
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MrBadExample 12:36 PM on 12/02/2010
Wow--I thought I followed this pretty closely, but the 'territorial tax' idea is a trillion-dollar corporate gift. And the companies with international offices already dodge most US taxes by shifting profits and losses however they can--GE didn't pay any taxes last year (in fact it received a billion dollar REFUND) owing to its practices of shifting profits around through bookkeeping.

 Read More...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jimpager
05:41 PM on 12/08/2010
Actually, I've recently become a strong believer in outsourcing...

1) Investment Bank CEOs
2) AIG CEO
3) All motgage lender CEOs within 100 miles of New York
4) Oil company CEOs
5) Health Insurance CEOs
6) Auto manufacturing CEOs
7) Hedge Fund CEOs
8) Head of the Department of the Treasury
9) Head of Ratings agencies, i.e. Moodys
10) Head of US Chamber of Commerce
11) Governor of Texas
12) Representative from Mississippi
13) Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, and all the usual suspects

I could go on but I think we should be forced to consider foreign nationals that agree to work
for 1/10th of what these august "leaders" make. And the new outsourcing discipline should be
administered by the AFL-CIO, not the Obama Administration.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Go2Renz
07:24 AM on 12/03/2010
Unions will be the death of this country
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muysuave41
Olive Oil Producer
04:18 AM on 12/03/2010
Indeed, the unions have every reason to be fearful. The debt reduction committee skipped several key tax deductions that benefit off-shoring/outsourcing. Here is one: The IRS allows tax deductions for anyone moving to an overseas location for a job.

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p521/ar02.html#en_US_publink1000203504
03:57 AM on 12/03/2010
Actually when the Republicans gave foriegn profits an only 5% tax rate large American companies repatriated the money they made into the US. Which created a phony boost
to the economy. that allowed the Repbulicans to spread delusion like their usual Up is
down and down is up stuff

However, countries like Ireland with low corporate taxes were left high and dry during the downturn needing to be bailed out because there was not much money gained from not having collected taxes.

By contrast Germany which is rife with unions, socialized medicine and ongoing employee training and I believe ballanced taxing is doing just great these days!

The Repbulicans have been fighting claw, teeth, nails against stopping the ****tax deductability of closing your plant in the US and opening it up in China****,Which John Kerry ran to eliminate
and would have been long gone had the Gas and Oil Company -- and their Mark Mckinnon
now pretending to be bipartisan to sweep up more voters on the Republican side -- when they Swifboated Kerry with the help of the Repbulican controlled Media.

Time for a Buy American campaign like during Reagan And Campaign funding reform!
04:09 AM on 12/03/2010
CORRECTION: Gas & Oil Party (not company)
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
laissezleswontonsbrulez
Semi-retired Family Physician
10:04 PM on 12/06/2010
Post Citizens United that distinction is blurring rapidly.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
MrBadExample
Friends call me ‘exampleicious’
08:43 PM on 12/02/2010
Here's a proposal to fix the deficit put together by an economist who was Assistant Treasury Secretary to Ronald Reagan. Paul Craig Roberts has testified in Congress and the Senate that if nothing is done to fix off-shoring, America is a third-world country in a decade. There are only two steps: 1) End the wars and cut the Pentagon Budget drastically. "US military spending reflects the unaffordable and unattainable crazed neoconservative goal of US Empire and world hegemony. What fool in Washington thinks that China is going to finance US hegemony over China?" 2) Combat off-shoring and bring back American jobs: "The only way that the US will again have an economy is by bringing back the offshored jobs... These jobs can be brought home where they belong by taxing corporations according to where value is added to their product. If value is added to their goods and services in China, corporations would have a high tax rate. If value is added to their goods and services in the US, corporations would have a low tax rate. "This change in corporate taxation would offset the cheap foreign labor that has sucked jobs out of America, and it would rebuild the ladders of upward mobility that made America an opportunity society. "If the wars are not immediately stopped and the jobs brought back to America, the US is relegated to the trash bin of history." Needless to say, Republicans HATE these proposals. http://www.vdare.com/roberts/100816_americans_are_history.htm
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
MrBadExample
Friends call me ‘exampleicious’
11:00 PM on 12/02/2010
fixed formatting so it's easier to read:

Here's a proposal to fix the deficit put together by an economist who was Assistant Treasury Secretary to Ronald Reagan. Paul Craig Roberts has testified in Congress and the Senate that if nothing is done to fix off-shoring, America is a third-world country in a decade. There are only two steps:

1) End the wars and cut the Pentagon Budget drastically. "US military spending reflects the unaffordable and unattainable crazed neoconservative  goal of US Empire and world hegemony. What fool in Washington thinks that China is going to finance US hegemony over China?"

2) Combat off-shoring and bring back American jobs:
"The only way that the US will again have an economy is by bringing back the offshored jobs... These jobs can be brought home where they belong by taxing corporations according to where value is added to their product. If value is added to their goods and services in China, corporations would have a high tax rate. If value is added to their goods and services in the US, corporations would have a low tax rate.

"This change in corporate taxation would offset the cheap foreign labor that has sucked jobs out of America, and it would rebuild the ladders of upward mobility that made America an opportunity society.

"If the wars are not immediately stopped and the jobs brought back to America, the US is relegated to the trash bin of history."

Needless to say, Republicans HATE these proposals.

http://www.vdare.com/roberts/100816_americans_are_history.htm
04:06 AM on 12/03/2010
Wouldn;t a Value added taxes on every part of the production food chain starging with raw materials Would this not raise prices of US products??!!
Javalation
Laughing in a Daydream
05:50 PM on 12/02/2010
The elephant in the recovery room is the military budget, and they didn't suggest cutting a dime. We're spending more on our military than everyone else combined and we need to stop for several reasons. Saving money is only one of them, but it is an important one.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ProgressforAmerica
04:06 PM on 12/02/2010
In essence what they're saying is in the New World Order of things, laws that protect workers above 3rd world status, make the companies too uncompetitive.

Americans have always had these protections, but now....with the cheaper labor in play....We'll have to lower them....That is exactly what they're saying, and that is exactly what they have always wanted.
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04:47 PM on 12/02/2010
Right! The wage disparity between the affluent and middle class workers is bigger than at any time in our history.

Each time a "hard-working" broker clicks the buy or sell key which gives him/her a millisecond advantage over those trying to stay in the market, it is just another slap in the face to those who still think their investments are safe.

One wonders what people in Ohio were thinking about when they elected Ron Portman, a free trader who wants more, not less outsourcing of jobs. This is in a state with 12% unemployment and where most of the manufacturing and industry turned into one of the biggest rust belts.

Unions are far weaker today than since the beginning of the 20th Century. Now, according to The Economist, a business-friendly British publication, unions in the private sector have been reduced to less than 7.3% of the workforce.

The Republican-Bush-Cheney recession is the biggest gift to the corporate swindlers and banking larcenists who used up and exploited the American workers and then threw them on the scrap heap.

After all, there's bigger profits to be made in China and India where cheaper child laborers working for a couple of dollars a day have zero bargaining power and no benefits -- just the way the Fat Cats want it.

It's a global economy all right. Only now it's with McJobs pay.
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John Mainstream
I'm a Clinton Democrat that is now an independent.
03:56 PM on 12/02/2010
President Obama's deficit commission proposal calls for lowering corporate tax rates as a way to encourage more businesses to hire American workers. If anything, union policies have driven millions of jobs overseas.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ProgressforAmerica
03:58 PM on 12/02/2010
No they haven't unions haven't had a strong hold in this country in a LONG time, more BS.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
jerzygurl
04:18 PM on 12/02/2010
They're desperately trying to hold onto the Public employee unions they still control.  But with a shrinking economic base to pay taxes to support them, they too are begin to lose their power.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
k6007
Obama/Biden 2012!
04:35 PM on 12/02/2010
LOL. Yeah, the 60 cents an hour slavelabor has Nothing to do with it.

http://www.ventureoutsource.com/contract-manufacturing/trends-observations/2008/hourly-manufacturing-labor-rates-in-china

The rightwing keeps expecting multinationals to give a dam about america's middleclass. Not going to happen.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ProgressforAmerica
03:52 PM on 12/02/2010
America needs to reduce its standards to 3rd world country standards if it wants to compete....or so I've been told by crazy right-wingers.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
jerzygurl
04:24 PM on 12/02/2010
 Back in 1970, the starting salary for a laborer at US Steel was less than $3.00 an hour. Today in India a steel worker laborer makes less than $3.00 an hour. Wonder why US Steel, Bethlehem & Republic are
nothing more than a fond memory of the past.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ProgressforAmerica
04:26 PM on 12/02/2010
Considering I have family who've worked at both of those places it would take hours to get into the nuances of what happened with that, but I certainly get your point.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
k6007
Obama/Biden 2012!
04:43 PM on 12/02/2010
So you are advocating a race to the bottom? Are you suggesting americans can live on 3 bucks an hour?

I say we slap tariffs on that cheap labor and level the playing field. Of course, the repubs would Never go for that would they?
Genders
Love, Tolerance, Enlightenment
03:48 PM on 12/02/2010
Is the pattern clear yet? You are being reduced to serfdom. The real Founder type liberals, Kucinich, Dean, Grayson, to leave the DLC/Clinton/Obama trickle down, deregulate, privatize conservative Democratic wholly own corporation, and form a new Liberal party.
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MaineCon
Happily enlightening liberals
03:48 PM on 12/02/2010
Unions have been the major downfall of manufacturing in this country. Demands for higher wages, more and earlier retirements while life expectancies are continuing to lengthen, more and more time off and demands of not working at exactly your specified job specification have buckled the knees of manufacturing industries under the weight and have required that they move overseas to save their companies.

Nicely done, you unemployed union workers. Thank your union bosses.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ProgressforAmerica
03:54 PM on 12/02/2010
That is such bull.....unions had zero part in that, and the countries low union numbers always directly contradict what you say.
05:28 PM on 12/02/2010
Unions had all the responsibilty in that and the lame workers who allow their unions to continue to ruin our manufactoring. I think your progress picture needs to go the other way. We will be back in the stone ages before long with this kind of leadership. Oh wait isn't that what they said they wanted to do? De-industrialize for the sake of 3rd world country's to catch up. Whatever. Good luck with that theory.
04:15 PM on 12/02/2010
Let's see -
Nardelli (former HomeDepot CEO) - received $20million in cash and an additional $77million in deferred stocks to leave (ie. his severence package)
Nardelli was fired because he was ruining the company (I could have ruined it at half the cost).
Nardelli then proceeded to ruin Chrysler
in spite of his non-union credentials, Nardelli seems to have mastered the art of bringing businesses to their knees

Carl Icahn (probably not a union member) manages to destroy companies with no union help
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MrMainstreet
03:47 PM on 12/02/2010
I believe very strongly that if we could put together a definitive study on the fiscal costs of outsourcing American taxpayers would demand changes to trade and tax policy that facilitate this abuse. Multi-nationals are making billions and the American taxpayer is left holding the bag so to speak because we are supplying a whole social safety net of programs to help these displaced workers. Unemployment benefits,subsidized housing,foodstamps,medicade,occupational and vocation retraining programs,pell grants, and the list goes on and on all funded by our tax dollars. How much has it cost us in the last 30 years? What will it cost in the next 5-10 years as another 3.4 million jobs are outsourced? And we wonder why the country is broke and continuously running deficits? Wake up and demand the change we need not only to protect American workers but also the American taxpayer.
04:20 PM on 12/02/2010
what are we training them for???
yes, service jobs
we now have the worlds best educated waiters and waitresses
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09:24 PM on 12/02/2010
http://www.epi.org/economic_snapshots/entry/jobs_..._but_low_pay/
Jobs ... but low pay

"While a lack of jobs is arguably the biggest problem facing the labor market, another major concern is the quality of the jobs that are being created. The Figure presents the five fastest growing occupations between 2006 and 2009 and shows that all but one of them pays below the median wage in May 2009 of $15.95 an hour. The two fastest-growing occupations, home health care and food preparation and serving, pay closer to the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour than the median wage. A food preparation worker’s typical wage of $8.28 an hour would earn an annual salary of $16,560, based on a typical 2,000-hour work year: That salary is just below the 2009 poverty threshold for a family of three. Warehouse stock clerks, another fast-growing occupation, would earn slightly more than $20,000 per year..."

You'll have to cut and paste the URL
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Viper1st
multi quasi faceted
03:47 PM on 12/02/2010
SEIU, a labor union

Flaunts the fact of having illegal scabs as dues paying members

SEIU #1199 has be granted waiver by BHO Adm HHS to "opt out" of "ObamaCare.
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Viper1st
multi quasi faceted
03:42 PM on 12/02/2010
"There is no question that this incentivizes outsourcing, and that's the opposite direction from the one we want to be going in," AFL-CIO Deputy Chief of Staff Thea Lee argued.

It also incentivizes insourcing

Currently 11 million illegal "insourced" scabs working in the U.S. taking Americans' jobs at half-price wages

16 million Americans out of work facing 6 million home foreclosures

U.S. Unemployment Rate is nearly 10% ~ up from 5.0% in July of 2008
03:34 PM on 12/02/2010
Ooops sorry

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm