Rachel Maddow Interviews David Bahati, Author Of Ugandan 'Kill The Gays' Bill (VIDEO)

Rachel Maddow devoted almost half of her Wednesday show to a lengthy interview with David Bahati, author of the infamous bill in the Ugandan Parliament that calls for gay people to face life imprisonment or, in some cases, execution if they are convicted of having practiced homosexuality.

Bahati is also a member of The Family, the religious organization that carries substantial power on Capitol Hill. Before playing her interview with him, Maddow recounted some of the history of anti-gay legislation in the United States, and pointed out that they all had one thing in common: their claim that gay people were trying to "recruit" children into homosexuality.

In the eighteen-minute interview, Bahati used the same reasoning to explain his thinking behind the bill. He said he has a "passion for children" and wanted to protect them from homosexuality. He also said that, while he understood that many in the United States might see being gay as a human right, "we don't believe it's a human right in Uganda."

"You're describing one of the foundational myths about how gay people have been slandered and attacked in every country," Maddow told Bahati. "The idea, this myth that gay people are recruiting kids. Assert it as if it is baldly true, and no evidence of it is ever ever ever ever put forward in any way that can be evaluated and every responsible authority who's looked into it says that it's a myth."

Bahati said that there was substantial evidence that he would show Maddow, including the assertion that $15 million of foreign money has been poured into Uganda for the purpose of recruiting children into homosexuality. (Maddow was, needless to say, skeptical about that claim.)

Maddow asked him how gays living openly in Uganda harmed children. "It hurts my family when my child goes to school and is converted into gay...when the purpose of procreation is undermined," Bahati said.

He also said that he was concerned about following "God's law." Maddow pressed him on this point, finally getting him to acknowledge that, in his view, the "appropriate punishment" for violating God's law is death. "We need to turn to God," he said.

At the end of the interview, Maddow told Bahati he risked turning Uganda into a rogue state:

"You are promoting life imprisonment for all gay people in your country, and your country has a lot of gay people who do not want to be subject to life imprisonment. And I think the international community is trying to decide whether Uganda is going to become an international pariah, a rogue state excluded from the community of nations, because you are singling out a minority among your population for treatment that frankly is not the direction that the rest of the world is going."

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Comments

[GLOBALAUTHOR]

03:00 AM on 02/07/2011

UGANDA, UGANDA MY HEART WEEPS FOR YOU!
THE AUDIO PRESENTATION THAT IS DESTINED TO CHANGE THE ENTIRE CONTINENT OF AFRICA – CLICK ON LINK BELOW TO LISTEN:

http://betweentheraindrops.podomatic.com/entry/2011-01-29T13_39_26-08_00

"Injustice Anywhere is a Threat to Justice Everywhere"
-Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.


Internationally Acclaimed Author and Lecturer Terry Angel Mason
WWW.TERRYANGELMASON.COM

[Daemon Edwards]

01:18 PM on 12/15/2010

It may have been said already but I'll write it anyway. I do not agree with this bill--as I am a gay man myself--but there is something that I can see in the "children" comments that have been made all these years. I think part of the reason so many bring it up, is because prostitution of all genders does not always start at the age of consent throughout the world. Children and adults engage in the act of prostitution. Ask many adult male prostitutes who are actually straight if they have ever given in to same-sex relations in order to have the money. There are many that will say that they have done just that. Whether you agree or not, children will and have done the same thing. It is not hard to find the evidence of child prostitutes doing something sexually just to make the money offered. I think this is why they think a child can be given money to "become" gay. Often, people seeking out children of the same sex for prostitution will pay more to get what they want. We have laws that are against any form of child prostitution, and I think the Ugandans should have the same thing (I do not know nor have I researched if they already have such laws).

Outside of child prostitution, this proposed bill has NO place in a Christian-centric state as it seems to be in Uganda according my interpretation of Bahati's words.

[Scent]

12:17 PM on 01/11/2011

I am sorry. But IF it was the children they were worried wbout it would not be ALL gays they want to hunt and put into jail or right to death. The very fact that the bill wants to punish a certain group of people as a whole and without distinction says loud and clear that it is not a very small part of that group they want to destroy.

[Jivan]

09:24 AM on 12/13/2010

David Bahati claimed to Rachel that being gay is a sin and that justified putting a person in jail for life. I wish she would have asked him what other sins he is advocating life in prison. Which of the ten commandments does one have to break to get life in prison? If a Ugandan steals, bears false witness, swears, etc. does he want to put those persons in jail for life? I wish she would have asked him that. It seems that being gay is a "worse" sin than any other in the eyes of fundys.

[Nick Santiago]

02:08 AM on 12/24/2010

Exactly! And yet is not included in the 'top ten' that seem to be mostly brushed off.

[silverlake3]

09:01 AM on 12/13/2010

Let's put out the word. All gay Ugandans are welcome to get political asylum in the United States.

[notpoliticallysafe]

07:21 AM on 12/13/2010

Several posts have been deleted because people dislike my views, though there was no abuse. Hopefully this 1 won't be but here it goes. Why do people keep talking about religion & Christianity or asking me about this? It is not my faith. Yes, this poster agrees with Mr. Bahati's views against homosexual behaviors but in Ugandan culture, they're against homosexuality regardless of faith. Sure, there are Judeo-Christians, but there are also Hindus (a minority) who agree with Uganda's laws.

In Uganda, homosexuals are not put in jail because of their orientation, they're put in jail only if they engage in homosexual activities. Ugandans (this poster is not) do not see homosexual activities between consenting adults to be a victimless crime & have had laws against them for a long time. Who are we to meddle in Uganda's affairs? There are more serious topics impacting Africa & people such as Dr. E. Warren Throckmorton are obsessed with this? If homosexuals are celibate, then they are not arrested & punished. Also Ugandan politicians are not seeking the death penalty for homosexuality unless it's homosexual rape. Again, if homosexuals don't want to be arrested & punished in Uganda, then be celibate. It's not orientation, it's sexual behavior & Ugandans are punishing homosexual behavior because they see something wrong with this even if it involves knowing & wilful adults.

[TanzaniaTeacher]

11:03 AM on 12/13/2010

Your views are prejudiced and often completely incorrect.

You replied to me at one point on the thread that the Ugandan government was only imprisoning people for engaging in homosexual acts. This is incorrect. They are actually imprisoning people who they BELIEVE are engaging in homosexual acts. They have not actually caught two people in their bedroom, in the act, and then put them in jail. Therefore due process is not taking place, therefore your assertion that the treatment of gays in Uganda does not entail cruel and unusual punishment is COMPLETELY INCORRECT. People are being put in jail for WHO they are, not WHAT they have done.

[notpoliticallysafe]

02:05 PM on 12/13/2010

What you wrote is 1/2 true. Ugandans have pointed out on Dr. E. Warren Throckmorton's site that it is has to proven in a court that the people believed to have engaged in homosexual activities are guilty. Now Dr. E. Warren Throckmorton in his obsession puts up another post which repeats the same thing which has been debunked because he is not interested in discussing the facts.

Those criticizing Uganda's laws are predictably homosexual groups, but again, it's homosexual behavior NOT orientation which is punished by Uganda's laws. This comparison will sound offenseive but there could be a rapist or thieves orientation, but Uganda doesn't put people in prison for these 2 deeds unless it's proven in court that a man committed rape or theft. You can say otherwise, but it's behavor not conduct which is punished & celibacy does benefit homosexuals.

[Proktor]

06:08 AM on 12/13/2010

Wow. There are so many other "sins" that are committed by everyone...all the time. Can homosexuality really be that threatening? I like that someone posted about it possibly being a form of evolutionary population control. However, I think it's mention and condemnation in the bible is probably closer to an agenda, on the part of whoever wrote that section, to get people to make more babies...At a time when pirates/barbarians/marauders would come in and terrorize one's village, the best thing to do is populate...bet the numbers up and build a force. Everything is metaphorical anyway. Why the heck would the "original" sin be taking an apple from the Tree of Knowledge? Knowledge!? Quite a definitive promotion of blind faith and do-what-you're-told.

[InTheSouth]

11:30 PM on 12/12/2010

This is what happens when a country takes their imaginary friend far too seriously. This man believes he can speak for this invisible entity and pass judgment on other human beings based on ancient mythology. This is total ignorance of reality. There cannot be any understanding by him of basic biology. He wants to have his country commit a genicide of a class of people who are totally innocent of any crime without any legitimate justification. He has no idea how utterly disgusting his words are.

[theaustincritic]

08:11 PM on 12/12/2010

What a disgusting bill. He is definitely not a Christian when he won't even follow the basic commandment, "Thou shall not kill." Absolutely disgraceful.

[Rubyredman]

02:11 PM on 12/12/2010

Christianity - the religion of love....lol

[fatback65]

12:14 AM on 12/12/2010

One thing we have learned from history is that people don't learn from history. Where there are minorities to persecute, minorities will be persecuted.

[Catch 22]

03:35 PM on 12/12/2010

You are absolutely correct Fatback, and you would observe the Religion is always a very useful conduit for doing so.

[pceasy]

10:47 PM on 12/11/2010

Hey whatever happened to other sins like working on the Sabbath, worshiping false idols, greed, gluttony, lying??

[JoAnnCr]

10:13 AM on 12/11/2010

Why didn't Maddow focus on the abuse of children by ANYONE as the law to enact as opposed to mistreatment of gays? I'd like to know what exactly these gays were trying to do with the children, for instance. What does it mean to pay them money to take on the homosexual lifestyle? Do predators only draw children in for same sex abuse or do some draw children in for heterosexual abuse?

This is what irks me about the DADT policy. Women in the military experience a high rate of rape and sexual abuse by their male counterparts. Why is there not attention paid to that and why aren't we stepping up action on ANY person in the military who rapes, sexually abuses or creates a hostile environment through sexual harassment whether same sex or heterosexual inappropriate behavior?

Maddow was rightly trying to illuminate the discrimination Bahati was trying to exact on homosexuals and that his reasoning "to protect the children" was weak. With his background as an orphan, I wonder if he was mistreated by a male. All these questions could be address if Maddow looked more deeply for the truth.

[Cymbol]

11:30 AM on 12/12/2010

Of course, the military like most other agencies the military still has many improvements that can be made.

[Andrea Vassell]

10:09 AM on 12/11/2010

The Faith Community is having an EMERGENCY TOWN HALL MEETING to address this hate @ Rehoboth Temple 318 W 139th Street, NYC (bet Edgecombe and Fredrick Douglas Blvd @ 1:00pm. This kind of hate cannot be allowed to go unchecked. Come and join some of the leaders in this fight from Uganda and from the USA.
When human rights are abused in any place it is a threat to human rights in all places. Join us and put a stop to this madness

[TrumpetDC]

12:58 PM on 12/13/2010

I couldn't be there since I live in DC. Is there any way to contact your organization about this? I'd like to coordinate efforts.

[ReligiousWar]

10:05 AM on 12/11/2010

I have a theory! Perhaps gay people have evolved to save ourselves as a species. Strong sex drives have created over population and being gay allows for a strong sex drive to exist but it skips a generation as baby producing hetro activity once in a while. Why not go with it. If you are hetro make babies, if not, have fun trying. Are there any studies on this ?

[Titanshanks]

03:17 PM on 12/11/2010

Fun theory:-) That would imply a sort of directed evolution, or evolution with a goal in mind, which ain't happening. Sexuality is something that can be very hard to talk about scientifically without sounding cold and offensive--everything that we've evolved (ie everything about us) is a "mutation," for example. For what it's worth, I haven't come across any serious scientist who still uses words like "disease" or any nonsense like that. Simple answer, most traits are a combination of common genes.

As far as overpopulation, the answer is well-known, if often difficult to implement. Every place where women are educated and empowered they generally choose to have far fewer children.

[ReligiousWar]

10:04 AM on 12/11/2010

I understand religions roll as a social club but I can not accept that religions receive preferential treatment for unproven theories. I can not accept that actual real laws are based on myths and not fact. I do accept there is some overlap such as "Theft is bad" so lets go with those laws, no god myth necessary. We do not have to prove non existence to use facts to make our laws. Don't you think that any god that could possibly exist would want that?

[Rubyredman]

02:14 PM on 12/12/2010

Tell your theories to the folks who were given Is.rael as it was written in "the bible" by "god"...

you see, theft is all good, i.e. land of israel, america, canada, etc, if it is done under gods cooperation. me thinks it's call manifest destiny. get it, yet? no? me neither....