NRA Working To Kill ATF Plan To Curb Gunrunning To Mexico

Washington Post:

Behind the scenes, federal agents in charge of stopping gun trafficking to Mexico have quietly advanced a plan to help stem the smuggling of high-powered AK-47s and AR-15s to the bloody drug war south of the border.

Read the whole story: Washington Post

Comments

[AZreb]

08:43 AM on 12/17/2010

Have looked in vain for several stories about the problems on the border - not a mention of them. Ten people killed in border city - four police officers killed in border city - those two incidents happened in Mexico. Now a U.S. Border Patrol officer was shot and killed in AZ by drug and/or human smugglers - four have been captured and one is on the run. Evidently a shoot-out between BP agents and the smugglers.

We have items regarding incidents in other countries, some not even nearly as pertinent to our own country as these - why not stories on what is happening regarding the problems on our own border?

But to this article - how many of the arms "made in the USA" are those we supplied to the Mexican army and police units? We know that they regularly defect to the cartels and more than likely take their weapons with them.

[JimInHouston]

09:32 AM on 12/17/2010

"But to this article - how many of the arms "made in the USA" are those we supplied to the Mexican army and police units? We know that they regularly defect to the cartels and more than likely take their weapons with them. "

Unfortunately, the Mexicans ain't sayin', and the BATFE probably doesn't have that information.

[AZreb]

08:34 PM on 12/17/2010

But they have the numbers on the weapons - and I would hope that our government keeps lists of the weapons (with numbers) on file.

[RageCage]

08:43 AM on 12/17/2010

This is what happens when you actually have principles; you stand by them. You don't make decisions simply because the ends justify the means.

The NRA isn't opposing this measure because they want guns to go to Mexico, they are opposing it because they are against the methods used on American gun buyers to implement it.

[OldSFMJT]

08:49 AM on 12/17/2010

'RageCage' wrote: "The NRA isn't opposing this measure because they want guns to go to Mexico, they are opposing it because they are against the methods used on American gun buyers to implement it."

Very, VERY well stated!

Old SF

[anothervoice2]

10:47 AM on 12/17/2010

What methods exactly are they objecting to?
 
Name one method they would be okay with to help law enforcement track and assess the impact of this traffic of guns from the USA to Mexico?! Backed up by a non-NRA link as proof?!

[RageCage]

10:54 AM on 12/17/2010

I have no idea. I'm not the NRA. I'm simply going by what the article says:

"a measure strongly opposed by the National Rifle Association: requiring gun dealers to report multiple sales of rifles and shotguns to ATF. "

That's why the NRA is against this particular bill, NOT because they want more guns to go to Mexican drug dealers.

[Dimensio]

02:41 PM on 12/17/2010

What methods exactly are they objecting to?

As I have stated previously, the National Rifle Association is opposing the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives imposing a requirement that licensed firearm retailers report purchases of multiple long gun because that agency lacks the legal authority to impose such a requirement.

[Madison Lib]

08:22 AM on 12/17/2010

The NRA is a lobby for the weapons manufacturers and their members are little more to them than the Tea Party was to the Republicans who co-opted them.

[JimInHouston]

09:33 AM on 12/17/2010

You really should look these things up before you opine.

[Madison Lib]

11:23 AM on 12/17/2010

I know what I see. And I'm not some anti-gun liberal. I've owned numerous weapons; I'm a veteran who was trained in numerous weapons - and I can shoot as well as anyone of you bang bang boys on this or any other blog.

[anothervoice2]

10:49 AM on 12/17/2010

So true. 
The NRA successfully managed to get gun mfrs exempt from liability laws.
 
Apparently the only limit to gun rights is when someone actually commits a crime, and is convicted, where law enforcement has to overcome onerous NRA-drafted restrictions/limitations to get that conviction.
 

[Old Jarhead]

11:24 AM on 12/17/2010

"The NRA successful­ly managed to get gun mfrs exempt from liability laws." anothervoice2

Umm, no. The law you are referring to does not release the firearms manufacturers from any liability regarding their firearms. The law in question tell overzealous prosecutors that the firearms industry may not be held liable for the illegal acts of 3rd parties. If that were possible, the alcohol manufacturers could be held liable for the death and destruction that occurs as a consequence of their legal product.

"Apparently the only limit to gun rights is when someone actually commits a crime, and is convicted" anothervoice2

When did the Department of Pre-Crime come into existence? I am at a loss to determine what it is you are advocating for, other than illegal and onerous restrictions. Have you ever bought a firearm legally? It is not the simple matter you seem to imagine.

[dvkrlsn]

11:31 AM on 12/17/2010

false--the only legislation remotely close is aimed at BC/LCAGB/MAIG lawsuits aimed at bankrupting the industry for the criminal actions of third parties

[JerseyCity]

07:52 AM on 12/17/2010

OOooooo better look out, the NRA boogieman might be under your bed!

What is with all these brady talking points pushing fear and paranoia? They all sound like a bunch of 'baggers......lol.......or did I just pass the nursery school?

[babyboomerorig]

07:46 AM on 12/17/2010

I find it interesting that we have a gun organization supporting all the killing going on in Mexico.

Obviously, they are against humanity.

[CelticMajic]

01:58 PM on 12/17/2010

other than an outrageous comment, do you have a constructive comment?

[Dimensio]

02:37 PM on 12/17/2010

I find it interesting that we have a gun organization supporting all the killing going on in Mexico.

Which organization is this?

[Ascoli]

06:08 AM on 12/17/2010

Goddam American guns are everywhere in Mexico and Canada.,,,,NRAs god god god in the......USA.

[Dimensio]

07:26 AM on 12/17/2010

I am unable to parse your statement.

[JerseyCity]

10:06 AM on 12/17/2010

Ya know, you reminded me. I need to pick up my new shotgun this weekend.

[Old Jarhead]

02:17 PM on 12/17/2010

My latest was a Remington, O/U in 12 gauge, about 4 years ago. What are you getting? It is always satisfying to exercise ALL of our rights.

[SDLee]

12:36 AM on 12/17/2010

Don't you know by now the Obama admin has no intention ever of doing anything to impede the sale of American weapons around the world. He's fully engaged in the sham wars on drugs, terror, and Afghanistan which are the primary consumers of these weapons. He's part of the problem, not the solution.

[Just4]

12:35 AM on 12/17/2010

Let's stay focused. There are already laws that the ATF can use to prosecute illegal arms traffickers...

[RevJimIII]

12:38 AM on 12/17/2010

You are correct, there seems to be a desire to create more statutes which increase authority without increasing effectiveness.

[JerseyCity]

07:47 AM on 12/17/2010

But by increasing authority, you'll need an increase in manpower, an Jobs Jobs Jobs is the flavor of the day. Any increase in effectiveness is just accidental.

[Old Jarhead]

09:45 AM on 12/17/2010

Welcome back, Rev. Have you completed the move to OK?

Hope you and your family have a very Merry Christmas.

[senatortruth]

12:16 AM on 12/17/2010

Dimensio

What legislativ­e act do you propose to end this already criminal behaviour?
**********************************************

senatortruth

Which YOU support, or YOU would want an END to it, right???

LOL!
******************************************

Dimensio

I do not "support" the previously described criminal actions. Your claim is therefore a lie.
*****************************

No, that's YOUR realm.

REAL Americans like MYSELF are tired of it.

Not YOU, of course...

LOL!

[Dimensio]

12:19 AM on 12/17/2010

Your personal attacks do not validate your position.

[senatortruth]

12:20 AM on 12/17/2010

Since you KNOW it is CRIMINAL, what do YOU propose?

LOL!

[anothervoice2]

12:25 AM on 12/17/2010

Every opposing viewpoint or post that highlights the disingenuous pro-NRA talking points is not an attack! Nor is it personal. A response to accusations or claims is just that - a response. 
 
BTW the tag teaming and whining isn't pleasant either.

[senatortruth]

12:00 AM on 12/17/2010

SouPro

“No one can buy a rifle in Georgia without a valid state ID and a background check. A very quick Google check confirms that this is the case for North or South Carolina.

Why do you have to lie senatortru­th?”
*******************************

I DON'T lie. I tell the TRUTH.

ONE EXAMPLE: Go to the swap meet at Exit 13, I-26 (Fletcher/Mountain Home) in NC, just

south of Asheville on any day the meet operates, such as the weekend.

ALL you can buy, and some of the sellers had FELONIES, and shouldn't possess a firearm.

The good ole boys just wink and take the CASH...

TRUTH, unlike what YOU speak...

[Dimensio]

12:07 AM on 12/17/2010

What legislative act do you propose to end this already criminal behaviour?

[senatortruth]

12:12 AM on 12/17/2010

Which YOU support, or YOU would want an END to it, right???

LOL!

[JimInHouston]

12:11 AM on 12/17/2010

"some of the sellers had FELONIES, and shouldn't possess a firearm."

Did you contact law enforcement?

If not, why not?

[anothervoice2]

11:31 PM on 12/16/2010

"Please identify the specific due process procedures utilized prior to adding a name to the "no fly" list."
===================================================================
 
Wow! Seriously?
The NRA would want full disclosure of intelligence gathering methods to concede that people on that no fly list may perhaps be ill-intentioned?! Wouldn't disclosing that compromise national security?!
And if said intelligence gathering is not 100% perfect - not a misspelled name, not an error - then anyone on that list should be allowed to buy a gun?!
The NRA could advocate for  and help support legislation for due process - that allows for the innocent who are on that list erroneously to have their names removed. There are other proactive, productive cooperative ways to address the issue rather than insisting that everyone on that list be allowed to buy a gun.
 
 

[Dimensio]

11:33 PM on 12/16/2010

If due process is not applied prior to placing a name upon the "no fly" list, then the list cannot reasonably be utilized as a basis for abridging any Constitutionally protected liberty.

[anothervoice2]

11:40 PM on 12/16/2010

You mean "due process" the way the NRA is interpreting it.
 
Nothing in the Constitution expressly gives the NRA the right to adjudicate whether due process was followed.
 
There is no evidence the govt is flouting due process. There may be errors - but that only means the "due process" system needs to be improved. Nothing more.

[Just4]

11:37 PM on 12/16/2010

So then you can't...

[RKBA 2A]

10:58 PM on 12/16/2010

Is that Obama in the picture with those rifles?

[Angelus2007]

04:10 PM on 12/17/2010

Wow, intelligent answer.

[OdinsEye]

10:49 PM on 12/16/2010

How exactly will requiring reporting of multiple long gun sales address the use of firearms in drug cartel violence in Mexico?

How many long guns purchased in the US do we know have been used in drug cartel violence in Mexico?

[rotorhead1871]

10:45 PM on 12/16/2010

ATF vs NRA...now that is going to be a shootout!!!!

[Tazzie]

10:43 PM on 12/16/2010

I would comment but what would be the point as once again this thread is dominated by those who show up on every firearms thread and harass anyone who doesn't agree with their NRA right wing stance.

[Dimensio]

10:47 PM on 12/16/2010

I do not hold a "right wing stance".

[RevJimIII]

10:49 PM on 12/16/2010

My 'stance' is to hold up any attempt at a use of authority to the Constitution. I also appreciate opininos but prefer to have citation or proof for any direct assertions of 'fact'.