Veterans Sue Obama Administration Over Disputed Cross Memorial

By Adelle M. Banks
Religion News Service

WASHINGTON (RNS) The Veterans of Foreign Wars has sued the Obama administration, saying it is dragging its feet on transferring ownership of land under a controversial California war memorial.

The Supreme Court ruled last April that a congressionally approved land swap involving a five-foot memorial cross in the Mojave Desert Preserve was constitutional, but legal wrangling over it has continued.

"Despite the reversal by the Supreme Court, the government has refused to give effect to the land-transfer statute and transfer the land upon which the memorial stands to the VFW," reads the complaint filed Tuesday (Jan. 11) in a California district court.

Officials from the Justice Department could not be reached for comment.

Shortly after the high court ruling, the cross was stolen from the site and has not been replaced. The VFW has unsuccessfully sought to have the memorial rebuilt with a new cross.

"This is our land, our memorial and we want it back," said James Rowoldt, an official of the VFW Department of California, in a statement.

The latest action in the Mojave cross case follows a Jan. 4 ruling by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals that a veterans' memorial featuring a 43-foot cross on California's Mount Soledad is
unconstitutional.

Comments

[conservo]

10:33 PM on 01/14/2011

Personally, as an Atheist, or more appropriately, an Anti-theist, I would be greatly offended to have the christian cross representing me above my grave site. Those that wish to be represented by a religious symbol are perfectly entitled to have a cross, star of david, (or whatever) on their particular grave. But, in this day and age, where we have many different beliefs, religions and non-religions here in the US, it is totally inappropriate to assume that an entire group of US citizens would feel comfortable, or even be OK, with one particular religious symbol repesenting an entire group of people who have totally differing beliefs.

[London Diplomat]

06:05 AM on 01/14/2011

And what do veterans from other denominations get? Goodness the ignorance is hilarious

[bigmacha]

11:15 AM on 01/15/2011

Great point.

[ThankGodhesgone]

02:32 AM on 01/14/2011

Have you been to Arlington National Cemetary? The vets from our wars are Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Wiccans and even Atheists.

Christians don't have a unique claim to those that have fallen in service to their country. If you want to pay tribute to the fallen, then include all of the fallen.

[de-meme-ing]

02:46 PM on 01/14/2011

Not true. The unique claim that Christians have is that they "predominantly" fought and died for this country since it's inception.

No other group can make that claim. The claim stands alone, making it a unique claim. Your denial of that is unjust, disrespectful, and dishonorable.

That said, if you want to pay tribute to the fallen, and include them all, each could be given a special rememberance of the totality of their image, which would include their faith, or non faith.

And if that is not to SCOTUS liking, well so be it.

[ThankGodhesgone]

04:25 PM on 01/14/2011

At last, the we are a Christian Nation argument. Therefore, as usual, minorities still have to ride in the back of the bus because there were more Christains represented. Frankly, I don't care what anyone's religious affiliation, or non affiliation is. They ALL equally gave their lives for this country.

That's all that I have to say on the matter.

[bigmacha]

11:16 AM on 01/15/2011

Applying that logic one can then make the argument that all of the ills befalling our nation are the fault of Christians since they make up the predominant religious group.

That argument is as foolish as yours.

[logicanada]

09:28 PM on 01/13/2011

This morning, officials at the Mojave National Preserve will remove the canvas tarp covering the Veterans Memorial Cross. This action comes the day after the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled the cross could remain uncovered during the appeal of a ruling that the cross is not a veterans memorial but a religious sysmbol and must be removed from federal property.
San Bernardino Sun - San Bernardino, CA
May 20, 2003

http://www.mdhca.org/mdhcacross.html

Yup, since 2003. This proves the Obama Administration is 100% at fault for this whole issue.

[MNKen]

09:56 PM on 01/14/2011

Thank you for researching this for us! Good to know.
Fan #412

[thebigbike]

08:39 PM on 01/13/2011

gosh sakes vfw you got no more better things to do than that? better PTSD and TBI identification and funding maybe? just for a couple of examples? by the time you spend all that lawyer's billable time you coulda built a memorial yrselves, ( and let your jewish and non religious members quit too)

[bbriani3842]

07:18 PM on 01/13/2011

One would think treatment of current veterans would be a more pressing issue for the VFW than some danged ol' cross.

[caught-in-the-middle]

08:46 PM on 01/13/2011

VFW = GodInc.gov/org

[Forester]

07:05 PM on 01/13/2011

The land transfer is the correct remedy, and one that has worked in several similar cases, Mt Davidson in San Francisco being the example I am familiar with. The actual transfer sounds more like classic government bureaucracy than anything nefarious, but a suit should keep the process moving. I know from professional experience that federal land title transfers, especially ones involving the establishment of new parcels, can literally take years to happen. Many posters here seem to be arguing the separation clause, but this story is about delays in what is a proven resolution to these cases.

[Chris Hollier]

09:24 PM on 01/13/2011

I'm a bit out of the loop here... Is this group trying to get the government to transfer ownership of this land to them so that it won't be federal land anymore and therefore they'd be free to put up a cross?

If that's the case, could a muslim or atheist group also attempt to get the land and place up their own symbols and items?

[Forester]

09:45 PM on 01/13/2011

If another religious symbol had been established on public land, and was now considered unconstitutional, the same remedy would likely be available. The controversy arises because the cross had been there many years, despite being in violation of federal law, and was only recently taken down. The transfer of the land under the symbol has been done in numerous other cases to basically punt on the legal battle. The veterans are complaining that the feds are dragging their feet, but I expect that is the one speed the fed moves at (having worked for the fed myself).

[OHC]

03:59 PM on 01/13/2011

The Constitution states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." A cross on public land is not making a law respecting an establishment of religion.

[Freemind42]

04:13 PM on 01/13/2011

a cursory reading of constitutional law shows otherwise. The most commonly referenced example would be Jefferson's statement that there needs to be a "wall of separation" between the church and the state. This goes beyond just specific language in laws.

[Forester]

06:37 PM on 01/13/2011

Obviously, case law and court decisions in similar cases to date contradict your statement. This is a well-established interpretation of the separation clause.

[Forester]

06:43 PM on 01/13/2011

woops, meant to resp to OHC.

[ThinkTwiceWriteOnce]

04:16 PM on 01/13/2011

There are none so blind and those who WILL NOT see.

[ThinkTwiceWriteOnce]

02:30 PM on 01/13/2011

Perhaps they should check to see what their sacred myths say about idolatry?

[de-meme-ing]

03:03 PM on 01/13/2011

They can have no false ones, or worhip them. In that they do neither they are good to go............

[ThinkTwiceWriteOnce]

04:02 PM on 01/13/2011

Perhaps literally they do not, but certainly they do figuratively. At any rate, they are lost is a pious fog with little regard for anyone but themselves.

[OHC]

04:00 PM on 01/13/2011

Not very respectful.

[ThinkTwiceWriteOnce]

04:09 PM on 01/13/2011

No more than the disrespect shown to veterans who died and were not of their faith. It denies their sacrifice by claiming (as they have argued) that it is a universal symbol and not associated with any one faith .

All I asked was that they examine their faith before hoisting it on the rest of us.

[Bob Wood]

12:47 PM on 01/13/2011

I'm an atheist. If the SCOTUS approved the transfer of the land to the VFW...by all means transfer the land and allow the veterans to replace their cross. While they're at it they should erect a menorah, a muslim flag, a statue of whatever god the hindus would choose, a buddah, a tree to represent wiccans...hey the list could get really long...anyody still believing in osiris, or thor...(sigh)

[de-meme-ing]

02:07 PM on 01/13/2011

I completely disagree that they should have to erect any other symbol but the cross, and yes, before you take me to task, I am a supporter of separation of church and state. SCOTUS solved the problem amiably and justly.

"While they're at it they "could" erect a menorah, a Muslim crescent", etc., but "no" to Muslim Flag. This is the USA Bob, unless you have already ceded it or perhaps are Muslim.

That they don't choose to erect anything other then the cross is of their own choosing as well. I don't believe that anyone has the right to strip Christians of everything, reducing them to nothing as though they had no share or imput into this country, and obviously SCOTUS believes the same...(Yeah)

[Bob Wood]

02:25 PM on 01/13/2011

I won't take you to task. My point was that if the land is transferred to the VFW...it becomes private property...so raise the cross. I listed those other religious because they've all been in our military and died too. It seems only appropriate that they should be included. Veterans aren't exclusively christian. There's probably more christians than any of the others...so make their stuff smaller. My very first statement was that I'm an atheist...sort of let's me out of being muslim...I accept the crescent instead of flag...really didn't consider any difference...not being muslim, what do I know...(sigh)

[ThankGodhesgone]

02:40 AM on 01/14/2011

This may be the USA, but not all veterans of war are Christian. Are you saying that the Jewish, Muslim or any other faith or non faith should be represented by the Cross because this is America?

We are not trying to reduce Chistians of everything. We are trying to make the point that many others in this country who were non Christians equally gave their lives for this nation. Why should their memories and beliefs be ignored?

Let us try to come up with a universal, or at least inclusive, symbol to honor our war dead.

[actuallyreadit]

12:23 PM on 01/13/2011

The government has a history of land grabs dating all the way back to the 1600's. You're at the end of a verrrrry long line.

[de-meme-ing]

11:38 AM on 01/13/2011

The integrity of President Obama will be called into question. SCOTUS resolved the issue fairly and justly and the President should use this opportunity to mend fences, and disregard the irrational protests of the opposition.

[schnauzergirl]

02:26 PM on 01/13/2011

The President has nothing to do with this. Its all Dept of the Interior

[de-meme-ing]

02:35 PM on 01/13/2011

Of course he does. Are you telling me he's just a lap dog? Somehow I think not. I've seen him bark, and besides he has let the public know that he knows how to kick *** when he needs to. I would suggest this is one of those times.

In that he is the president he will take the fall. That's how it goes. George had to take his lumps, Clinton his and so on. Obama is not any different.


And he will particularly take a hit in the Christian community, who question his Christianity in the first place. It doesn't matter if they are correct or not, why feed them ammunition if he wants to win in 2012?

It is a no brainer................Obama, start kicking butt. Don't give the right anything to regarding this issue.

[humansareinsane]

11:10 AM on 01/13/2011

All this over a 5-foot cross?

Unfracking believable.

I hope I never get that bored.

[OHC]

04:02 PM on 01/13/2011

The cross has been there for like 60 years. Then a lone complainer that does not even live in the state causes it to be covered with a wooden box for years. I think the complainer that had it put in a box is the one that got bored.

[American Air]

10:57 AM on 01/13/2011

Next time before you think or salute or show any respect to a veteranl Find out if he fought for his country or his religion.

[de-meme-ing]

02:09 PM on 01/13/2011

He fought for both if he was theist or atheist or agnostic.

[American Air]

10:56 AM on 01/13/2011

To these veterans..go Poop elsewere to mark your christian territ0ry! Shoo! go away!