Recruiting In China Pays Off For U.S. Colleges

The New York Times:

GRINNELL, Iowa -- The glossy color brochures, each crammed with photos depicting a Chinese student's high-achieving life from birth to young adulthood, pile up in the admissions office at Grinnell College here.

Read the whole story: The New York Times

Comments

[Louis Danton]

07:20 AM on 02/14/2011

One thing I will never understand is how much money Americans can spend in their colleges and universities. When you compare the tuitions here in Europe and in your country, you wonder how such a gap can be possible, even more when you know that there's no huge difference between people who graduate from a European university and those who graduate from an American university. For instance, a guy from Harvard would have to be something like between 30 and 40 times better than a student from France's Sorbonne to justify the tuitions. Maybe having a ratio of 10 students per teacher is not so necessary.

[IllTakeTheRedEye]

08:21 AM on 02/14/2011

Fanned/Fav'd for that 1st sentence definitely
 
Many Americans in the USA are not aware of what you posted

[dwill123]

08:42 PM on 02/13/2011

American universities need to educate the Chinese student's, so they can get one of all the American jobs that been sent over there.

[DanSc]

08:25 PM on 02/13/2011

I'll gladly admit a few elite, extraordinarily wealthy children of Chinese Communist Party Central Committee members to American universities if their tuition pays for more need-based financial aid.

[Jeremy Urbach]

06:12 PM on 02/13/2011

Sorry, but not at all in support of having them come here taking advantage of our educational system ( also denieing an American student admission) and than those kids going back to their countries of origin using that knowledge to compete with us, with the end result jobs going overseas and more competition globally. Colleges as usual not acting and behaving in the best interest of the Nation.

[IllTakeTheRedEye]

08:23 AM on 02/14/2011

Amen
 
 f & f

[hypnotoad72]

10:55 AM on 02/14/2011

A fair point.

[Douglas90723]

01:08 PM on 02/13/2011

Each Saudi student in a US college gets $1700 per month, full medical, dental ins. all tuition, travel, etc paid for by Saudi government.

The Saudi government is spending billions to educated their kids in the USA.

[Douglas90723]

01:12 PM on 02/13/2011

International students are a gold mine for US colleges...they love'em and want tens of thousands more......

[FarOutFish]

01:17 PM on 02/13/2011

Considering the quality of our school system, international students, soon foreign students may be the only ones educated well enough to qualify for college.

[chedet]

11:06 PM on 02/13/2011

Not just Saudi. Countries like Malaysia and Singapore also send their brightest students overseas in the hopes of they come back and contribute to nation building.

[Konrad Klean]

11:09 AM on 02/13/2011

We can all agree that as we work towards fulfilling the promise of the "Global Village" the provision of education for all students regardless of their nation of origin should be a goal of all the top institutions regardless whether they are located in the United States, Beijing, or Siena.

With that having been said I am also in agreement with Old Hick, when the proportion of foreign students on the professional and post-professional level exceeds that of the natives it is time to get worried. First and foremost it suggests that U.S. students aren't as qualified for the enrollment slots as the foreign students and no matter how nice the college environment, I have a hard time expecting that the sharp Chinese students don't know the truth to the saying "strength in numbers".

Secondly, while higher academia might pretend that the world is a fuzzy place in which individuals want to hold hands, sing kumbaya, and talk about their childhoods over a cozy fire - nothing could be any farther from the truth. With the companies who run our governments being more competitive than ever, the humanist approach may endure in some of these young grads for a few years. Regrettably, those who choose not to accept the cut-throat realities of the 21st century will never be given a significant amount of power.

Ultimately the establishment teaches you to hate weakness, one which is currently evident in the American student body.

[OldHick]

09:36 AM on 02/13/2011

60% of the new PhDs in math and Science are now Chinese. Our system was build to educate Americans, with some foreign students. That many graduates hurt those from our own country. 36% of all graduate students are now foreign students. That number should be 10% at most. Tuition pays for a small part of the total educational costs. Actual costs for graduates student is a large number way beyond tuition, most coming from the state and federal governments. Plainly - we can educate some, but after that, they should be educating their own, at their own government's expense.

The reason for the large uptick in foreign students - is reverse racism. Faculty are promoting the education of foreign students, as a sort of social justice. This is ripping off the US public and harming our youth.

[IllTakeTheRedEye]

08:24 AM on 02/14/2011

f & f
 
Good points

[theaustralian]

11:33 PM on 03/04/2011

Right like americans havent benefitted from asian mass production which screws over the asian poor.

[chedet]

12:18 AM on 02/13/2011

I don't know why most people here would blame foreign students for wanting to get education in this country. It's not that hard to figure why colleges are wanting to attract more international students.

When colleges everywhere are facing budget cuts, it is only natural that they turn to the people who can provide them with the finance rather than people who would have to depend on them financially. It doesn't take a genius to figure that they will rather take an international student who is going to pay out-of-state fees then an American who will be applying for financial aid.

If most of the people here are so against US colleges taking international students, write to the congress to ban these kids from being educated in this country. I'm pretty sure one or two of you have ideas on how to operate colleges with zero operating cost.

[SVPincalif]

12:54 AM on 02/13/2011

I don't really understand why anyone would protest the quest for an education; wherever the student originates from is not the issue. I agree with you that Americans need to grow up because, in my opinion, the global village is a reality.

[Kepler Poinsot]

07:48 AM on 02/13/2011

Hey Senior Vice President in California -

If you like communist China so much, then leave the USA and go there permanently.
I suggest that you go there while you continue to advocate this duplicitous sales and marketing strategy to open up Chinese markets in China, before the rest of us in the USA find where you dwell.

[Konrad Klean]

11:16 AM on 02/13/2011

Your opinion is appreciated, yet terribly misguided.

Understandably, the global aspect of the said village may be visible to you in areas such as California where the expatriate community is rather large and the liberal social rules de-stress people from the realities of their native countries where competition and underhanded tactics are the reality of the day.

Not to say that Californians don't know how to manipulate, and take advantage of contractual loop holes, I'm sure you have insurance and law corps out there after all.
However; when you contrast the general attitude which is in favor of personal enrichment and a life-work balance, to that of other nations, such as the aforementioned China; whose students have been driven like pack dogs since birth and therefore can be expected to have a high degree of institutionalization - you are facing the reality of Kent university.

Bunch of kids with flowers and bandannas facing down the barrels of automatic weapons. History teaches us which one of the two gets the point across more efficiently.

[Kepler Poinsot]

06:19 AM on 02/13/2011

Despite the fact that you have copied this over and over, and you were answered over and over.
Pretending that you, "...don't know why..." Is not what you are doing, you are a propaganda panda, either attempting to make China look bad, or you are a Chinese propagandist.

Which is it?

You seem to be a descendent of 'Tokyo Rose,' is this a Pacific rim condition prevalent in the Asia continent?

[chedet]

11:10 PM on 02/13/2011

I'm being reasonable which you, sir, are not. If there's a propagandist here it is you for propagating hate.

[jamerican negril]

07:16 AM on 02/14/2011

filled with h@te so early in the morning it must be awful to be you.

[Bat Wrangler]

12:03 AM on 02/13/2011

In states like Virginia, that have large military populations with dependents who get in-state tuition, and are exempt from state income taxes, universities are forced to make up the financial shortfall by recruiting more full-tuition paying international students.

[Kepler Poinsot]

08:00 AM on 02/13/2011

A financial shortfall can be "made up" by cutting spending.
If a university does not know how to do that, then those universities should be shut down.

Where is it written that universities should continue to get larger and larger and larger and larger?

Close down some buildings, classrooms, and dormitories. Tell the for-profit universities that they know how to make a profit margin at a smaller size, cut operating costs, cut expenses. If a for-profit university does not know how to do that, then the stakeholders need to sell their stake in the for-profit entity.

If the university is NOT a for-profit entity, again... Look at enrollment. If it is down, then shut down buildings commensurate with the enrollment decline. Turn off the electricity to save on the electric bill. If necessary, rent out the space to small businesses. Launch for-profit incubators on campus to make some money.

You do not support communist China to make up a financial shortfall, UNLESS YOU WANT COMMUNISM IN THE USA? That can be arranged if you like?

[JoeTroll]

04:49 PM on 02/13/2011

Your racism and xenophobia is the most propagandistic pap I see on this thread.

[MexiChick67]

11:43 PM on 02/12/2011

What people don't realize is that international students are almost like 'cash cows' for univeristies, esp. state schools. They pay out of state fees which are considerately more, so the schools make money on those students. In some cases they have saved departments from being shut down.

[chedet]

12:24 AM on 02/13/2011

They think that since state schools are being funded by tax money, they should only take American students. They don't think that since state governments are cutting their budgets that includes the schools too. As I'm doing my grad studies now, I can see how the budget cuts are affecting these schools. I have few of my professors who are being forced to take early retirement and I see that there are a lot of departments that had to be closed. You are right, the international students are the cash cows of these schools.

[Kepler Poinsot]

08:57 AM on 02/13/2011

More propaganda from the chedet panda... YESSSSSS

The USA is running a massive trade deficit with China, if China wants, since they are a monolithic communist country, to purchase USA University products to make up that massive trade deficit, then they will be assessed a tax equal to the yearly trade deficit with the USA, closing the gap.

We do not need to help communist China through USA trade deficits with China, to give FREE Bachelor's degrees, FREE Master's degrees, FREE PhDs to their Chinese people without the American people getting something in return.

American people want that trade deficit closed, and American people need to have the same FREE Bachelor's degrees, FREE Master's degrees, FREE PhDs that the communist Chinese people are getting.

Your approach only helps communist China to further extract intelligence from the USA, as China does with its requirements for American business to operate in China.
Since you are a propaganda panda from China, you already know that though...

Your other statement about Americans being unaware that state budgets to schools being cut is inane. There are plenty of issues that need to be addressed, and your simple approach does nothing but help China and self serve your butt. Those schools can cut their internal spending, just like everybody else in the USA and the world is doing because China is running trade imbalances with the world.

Awwww... poor grad student may miss out on something in life. Too bad

[MexiChick67]

03:31 AM on 02/14/2011

Oh they are retiring in groves. The 'brain drain' is scary.

[Kepler Poinsot]

08:40 AM on 02/13/2011

If you like international students soooo much, and we will presume for the moment that you are an American, I will give you this proposal.

ALL UNIVERSITIES that are operating in the USA that want international students must be subject to a tax. That tax will be equal to the following:

Using China as an example,

Total number of students from China per year at USA universities = some number X

That number X should be easy to derive from number of F1 visas issued to China

Cannot get the F1 visa, nor be permitted admission to ANY UNIVERSITY in the USA until the following tax is collected

Total tax levied upon X grand total will = total trade deficit that China maintains with USA

If China cannot find anything that it wishes to puchase from the USA but intelligence gathering from our USA univerisites, then China will make up the trade deficit with the USA at our USA universities.

How much will each university be legally required to collect on this international student sales tax? Using a weighted factor based on the tuition varying from one, more pricey, University to the next, each F1 visa attending that university will collect its fractional share of the USA current account trade defitict with China

Those sales taxes will be put in a lock box to fund only the following:
- Americans getting financial aid, like a Pell Grant, to pursue a Bachelor's, Masters, or PhD
- Lawsuits against China for violating

[Kepler Poinsot]

08:43 AM on 02/13/2011

- Lawsuits against China for violating WTO agreements

[dollbaby]

11:42 PM on 02/12/2011

chinese students have perfect scores on the math section of the SAT, and yet here in American the House of representatives wants to slash the education budget. Way to go!

[marshhen]

06:21 AM on 02/13/2011

We spend more money on education per child than any other country other than the Swiss, yet we rank 17th. Throwing more money at a failing system is not the answer.

[dollbaby]

11:15 AM on 02/13/2011

and slashing the budget will fix it? can I have your solution?

[Kepler Poinsot]

09:10 AM on 02/13/2011

Here in American Universities we teach business students to graduate, then run Fortune 500 companies, and that off-shoring, outsourcing, and insourcing does not impact the USA and tax revenues that fund education budgets.

Way to go!

Here in American Universities we teach business students to graduate, then run Fortune 500 companies, and that running trade deficits with China does not impact the USA and tax revenues that fund education budgets.

Way to go!

Here in American Universities we teach business students to graduate, then run Fortune 500 companies, and that supporting a communist country named China does not impact the USA and tax revenues that fund education budgets.

Way to go!

Here in American Universities we teach business students to graduate, then run Fortune 500 companies, and that a race to the bottom on wages by hiring the cheapest labor in the world does not impact the USA and tax revenues that fund education budgets.

Way to go!

[dollbaby]

11:13 AM on 02/13/2011

exactly.

[smschico]

09:32 PM on 02/12/2011

Re: Recruiting Chinese Students:

I was a grad student in the Cal State system and taught for a year. 1/3 of each of my classes was Chinese students whose English skills were typically very poor, math skills about average etc. They were usually upper class kids who did not get into Chinese Universities, but whose parents had the money to get them into school in the US. They paid out of state tuition, which is a boon to the University.

Re: H1 Workers

Currently working in Silicon Valley for an IT firm. From what I gather, it is standard practice here to bring people on as an H1 employee, by grossly understating their job description, listing the lowest possible pay. For example; for a job that pays $150,000/yr, list the person as making $75,000/yr by dumbing down the job description. Then have them reject all benefits, and get paid the remainder under the table. This way, both the company and the individual are paying less in taxes! So far, it seems that no American is willing to be paid this way, so we do not typically employ citizens.

I am currently of the opinion that if the unemployment rate is so high, and I speak daily with unemployed citizens MORE than qualified for these jobs, we should do away with the H1 program until we actually need to import our brains. At this point, we most certainly DO NOT.

[chedet]

12:06 AM on 02/13/2011

I can see why we don't need to import new brains since we are exporting the jobs elsewhere.

[Kepler Poinsot]

09:16 AM on 02/13/2011

I can see why you have no brains, because we are exporting the jobs elsewhere because of lower wages.

[Maria Bemmer]

09:24 PM on 02/12/2011

in other news...i know a couple american students who missed places in engineering grad school somewhere in bay area becouse the proffesor involved who is also chinese gave spots to 100% chinese students...true story

[Kepler Poinsot]

09:25 AM on 02/13/2011

That is not only happening more and more regarding the students, but it is happening more and more regarding the actual teaching, associate professor, and professor positions in the USA.

Trading American jobs to foreign nationals so that the wealthy and the elite in the USA can negotiate exploitation profits abroad while hurting the USA people more and more.

[ixington]

09:29 AM on 02/14/2011

Professors do not make admission decisions at universities; committees of Professors do. Your story reeks of hyperbole.

[cyberfringe]

09:18 PM on 02/12/2011

Some of the Australian universities I've visited market hard to attract Chinese students who paying whopping tuition. Major revenue stream, essential when public financial support is waining.

[Kepler Poinsot]

09:46 AM on 02/13/2011

Maybe Australian universities should sell d@ angerous drugs as well, I hear that is a major revenue stream. [Yes, sarcasm]

When "public financial support is waining," you look to American and Australian universities that taught and advocated that their future CEO business graduates and former alumni should off-shore to China, outsource to China, and insource cheap labor from abroad, contributing to massive economic decline in the USA, and tax revenues that fund education being wiped out.

When "public financial support is waining," you look to American and Australian universities that taught and advocated that their future CEO business graduates and former alumni should
work at TBTF banks, creating massive risk managment failures, have no ethics, through convoluted CDOs, CDS, derivative, fraudulent bond ratings, fraudulent appraisals, and other financial instruments that brought down the USA in 2008 through today, causing tax revenues that fund education being wiped out.

The USA Federal and State governments subsidize many of the American universities through tax exemptions, tax deductions, government contracts, and outright funding, which permits EVEN OUT-OF-STATE tuition to be considerably below the actual level it should be at. That is USA taxpayer monies doing that. Americans should NOT be subsidizing foreign nationals over legal Americans to attend American schools.

[marshhen]

08:33 PM on 02/12/2011

Public colleges receive state and federal funding, yet they use it to recruit and educate foreign students. And they wonder why education is failing

[Amalek]

08:47 PM on 02/12/2011

Actually, the reason why schools recruit foreign students is that they pay out of state tuition and the schools make money on them.  It is in state students that are subsidized.

[MexiChick67]

11:42 PM on 02/12/2011

You got it. I work in a state university and international students are the 'cash cows'. In some cases they have helped keep departments from going under. Seriously.

[Kepler Poinsot]

10:04 AM on 02/13/2011

That is not correct.

Every university across the United States of America receives plenty of subsidies in various forms depending on the school that we are talking about.

Some receive exemption status, some receive deductions, some receive government contracts, many receive funding form Sallie Mae, some receive grants, some receive funding through collaboration with National Institute of Health, or Centers for Disease Control, or similar other agencies, there is funding from the USDA for food programs, which does not include direct funding from Federal or State governments that are put into general revenue funds of universites that are then budgeted out from the President of the University afterwards.

And no, I have not even covered everything. Every school across the USA in one form or another receives taxpayer monies. What you are suggesting, is some form of lock box inside of every school that targets the money to only certain people, that does not happen. Neither in-state tuition or out-of-state tuition inside of American schools reflect the price that those schools would have to charge if they were receiveing ZERO taxpayer dollars.

In terms of making money on them, please point out every school in the USA that is set-up legally to be a for-profit entity? There are some, but they are the exception, not the norm. And even those for-profit entities have managed to severely impact the Sallie Mae funding corporation of the Federal Government through unethical practices.