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Texas Poised To Pass Bill Allowing Guns On Campus

Rick Perry Texas Guns Campus

JIM VERTUNO   02/20/11 02:24 PM ET   AP

AUSTIN, Texas — Texas is preparing to give college students and professors the right to carry guns on campus, adding momentum to a national campaign to open this part of society to firearms.

More than half the members of the Texas House have signed on as co-authors of a measure directing universities to allow concealed handguns. The Senate passed a similar bill in 2009 and is expected to do so again. Republican Gov. Rick Perry, who sometimes packs a pistol when he jogs, has said he's in favor of the idea.

Texas has become a prime battleground for the issue because of its gun culture and its size, with 38 public universities and more than 500,000 students. It would become the second state, following Utah, to pass such a broad-based law. Colorado gives colleges the option and several have allowed handguns.

Supporters of the legislation argue that gun violence on campuses, such as the mass shootings at Virginia Tech in 2007 and Northern Illinois in 2008, show that the best defense against a gunman is students who can shoot back.

"It's strictly a matter of self-defense," said state Sen. Jeff Wentworth, R-San Antonio. "I don't ever want to see repeated on a Texas college campus what happened at Virginia Tech, where some deranged, suicidal madman goes into a building and is able to pick off totally defenseless kids like sitting ducks."

Until the Virginia Tech incident, the worst college shooting in U.S. history occurred at the University of Texas, when sniper Charles Whitman went to the top of the administration tower in 1966 and killed 16 people and wounded dozens. Last September, a University of Texas student fired several shots from an assault rifle before killing himself.

Similar firearms measures have been proposed in about a dozen other states, but all face strong opposition, especially from college leaders. In Oklahoma, all 25 public college and university presidents declared their opposition to a concealed carry proposal.

"There is no scenario where allowing concealed weapons on college campuses will do anything other than create a more dangerous environment for students, faculty, staff and visitors," Oklahoma Chancellor of Higher Education Glen Johnson said in January.

University of Texas President William Powers has opposed concealed handguns on campus, saying the mix of students, guns and campus parties is too volatile.

Guns occupy a special place in Texas culture. Politicians often tout owning a gun as essential to being Texan. Concealed handgun license holders are allowed to skip the metal detectors that scan Capitol visitors for guns, knives and other contraband.

Guns on campus bills have been rejected in 23 states since 2007, but gun control activists acknowledge it will be difficult to stop the Texas bill from passing this year. "Things do look bleak," said Colin Goddard, assistant director of federal legislation for the Brady Campaign Against Gun Violence, who was in Austin recently to lobby against the Texas bills.

Goddard was a student at Virginia Tech when he was shot four times in his French class. Student Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 people, including 10 in Goddard's classroom, before shooting himself. Goddard dismisses the idea that another student with a gun could have stopped the killer.

"People tell me that if they would have been there, they would have shot that guy. That offends me," Goddard said. "People want to be the hero, I understand that. They play video games and they think they understand the reality. It's nothing like that."

But Derek Titus, a senior at Texas A&M who has a state license to carry a concealed handgun, said someone with a gun that day could have improved the chances of survival.

"Gun-free zones are shooting galleries for the mass murderers," Titus said. "We do not feel that we must rely on the police or security forces to defend our lives."

Texas enacted its concealed handgun law in 1995, allowing people 21 or older to carry weapons if they pass a training course and a background check. The state had 461,724 license holders as of Dec. 31, according to the state Department of Public Safety.

Businesses, schools and churches can set rules banning guns on their premises. On college campuses, guns are prohibited in buildings, dorms and certain grounds around them.

Opponents of campus gun rights say students and faculty would live in fear of their classmates and colleagues, not knowing who might pull a gun over a poor grade, a broken romance or a drunken fraternity argument.

Frankie Shulkin, a first-year law student at the University of Texas, said he doesn't think he'd feel safer if other students in his classes had guns.

"If I was taking an exam and knew the person next to me had one, I don't know how comfortable I would feel," Shulkin said. "I am in favor of guns rights and your typical conservative guy, but the classroom thing bugs me."

Wentworth said he heard the "blood on the streets" warnings when Texas first passed the concealed handgun law. "They said we'd have shootouts at every intersection," he said. "None of that has happened."

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AUSTIN, Texas — Texas is preparing to give college students and professors the right to carry guns on campus, adding momentum to a national campaign to open this part of society to firearms. Mo...
AUSTIN, Texas — Texas is preparing to give college students and professors the right to carry guns on campus, adding momentum to a national campaign to open this part of society to firearms. Mo...
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COMMUNITY PUNDITS
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ChiGuy 09:49 PM on 02/20/2011
These people, like those in Utah and Colorado are laying the groundwork for more Virginia Tech tragedies.

If you honestly think that the average person toting a handgun will have the wherewithal to calmly assess a crisis and take decisive action, and then be a good enough shot to actually stop another person firing at random, you have another thing coming.
Police officers are subjected to hundreds  Read More...
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dbrett480
08:18 PM on 03/16/2011
If someone is already licensed to carry a concealed weapon, what is the problem with them carrying it on a college campus? I have a CCW and have carried it on campus without an issue (I work in law enforcement however).
08:31 PM on 03/10/2011
2 weeks 1 Campus:

Armed assault
Armed robbery
Armed kidnapping
Car break-ins (to get guns stored there because Licensees must store them there to run into a library on campus, but not a city library?)
Keep people disarmed ....?

allowing same $1,000.00 gun to be stored more safely inside the licensees pants concealed and safely secured in a $175,00 holster retained by a $100.00 reinforced belt is preferable to making him store that same gun in his car where a burglar gets it and we have the current situation ...

http://thedailycougar.com/news/crime/

February 25, 2011

Aggravated abduction reported by student (Armed kidnapping)

The UH Department of Public Safety reported the abduction of a student at gunpoint at approximately 4:30 p.m. Thursday afternoon. According to the community alert released Thursday evening, the incident occurred on Cullen Boulevard between...

February 21, 2011

Patrols increase after robbery;

vehicle burglaries on the rise

Campus police stepped up patrols around Farish Hall in effort to prevent further incidents following an aggravated robbery last week.

Last week, a student was approached from behind and robbed at knifepoint..

Current system broke.

Legislature is trying to fix it = better way than forcing people who can carry their weapon into city library, to leave it in a car to be stolen while running into a Campus Library.

But, Brady Bunch rhetoric is inadvertently lobbying to keep allowing easier access to guns for criminals on campuses.
04:26 PM on 02/27/2011
There's always the very slim chance (one in a thousand?) that years from now the next lunatic with a gun on campus walks into a classroom where there is a CCL holder who is armed and who responds immediately with that hollywood head shot that saves the day and ends the danger. But what about all those other days? Does a student who suddenly notices a concealed carry firearm have a right to act? What about the very real threat of danger that the presence of such a firearm poses? No one knows whether such a carrier has a CCL or not. Should a fellow student risk their own lives by not acting? Doesn't the law of self defense give fellow students a right to act in this situation? Can he confront and disarm such a person? Would there be a gun battle if he tried? Aren't the odds of mistaken identification gun battles much higher than the odds of lunatics? What do two CCL holders do when they confront each other as strangers? This kind of a situation (concealed carry is secret carry) is fraught with danger. Adding it to the already highly charged emotional world of college with its hazing, practical jokes, drugs and alcohol is so obviously asking for trouble that most states have outlawed it as a menance to public safety. States where public safety takes priority over political grandstanding that is. Texas has never been a state that was accused of making sense.
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JimInHouston
Arma virumque cano...
08:17 PM on 02/27/2011
You seem to be utterly unfamiliar with the Use of Force laws and regulations covering concealed carry.

"Does a student who suddenly notices a concealed carry firearm have a right to act?"

No.

"What about the very real threat of danger that the presence of such a firearm poses? "

Such a firearm poses no danger whatsoever unless it is being used inappropriately.

"No one knows whether such a carrier has a CCL or not. Should a fellow student risk their own lives by not acting?"

The carrier has broken concealment, purposely or accidentally. Either way, the authorities should be notified so that they can handle the situation.

"Doesn't the law of self defense give fellow students a right to act in this situation?"

Not with force. READ THE LAW.

"Can he confront and disarm such a person? "

NO, unless the carrier was behaving in a way that force was justified. If he's just sitting there, then either do nothing or notify the cops...your choice.

"Would there be a gun battle if he tried? "

Quite possibly, so don't try to use force when it isn't warranted.

"Aren't the odds of mistaken identifica­tion gun battles much higher than the odds of lunatics?"

No.

"What do two CCL holders do when they confront each other as strangers? "

Nothing...concealed means CONCEALED.

"This kind of a situation (concealed carry is secret carry) is fraught with danger.

Truly laughable. Concealed means CONCEALED.
07:01 PM on 02/28/2011
No, what's laughable is to think that there is anything concealable on a college campus.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
06:20 PM on 02/28/2011
"Does a student who suddenly notices a concealed carry firearm have a right to act? "

No, he informs security. If the person has a permit, they are taught to identify themselves to security/law enforcement.

"Can he confront and disarm such a person?"

Absolutely not.

"What do two CCL holders do when they confront each other as strangers? "

They identify themselves.

To be perfectly honest, the predictions you engage in are the same made for the last 20+ years by the gun control lobby. They have not been a problem.
07:08 PM on 02/28/2011
What if the lunatic identifies himself as a CCL holder? What if he shoots the other CCL holder while that person is contacting authorities to determine what to do about the CCL holder who has broken concealment? How do you know that when a CCL holder identifies himself that he is not lying? Do you demand to see his license? What if he refuses to show it to you? What do you do about a lunatic who is carrying a concealed weapon and who says he is a CCL holder? What do you do if the lunatic is armed but is acting appropriately today? Wait?
11:20 AM on 02/26/2011
The media is always there when a tragic shooting occurs, how about showing when a responsible CCW holder prevents a crime. Carrying a sidearm is a big responsibility, nobody denies that, but practice and taking defensive training courses will make a difference in being a victim or saving yours or someones life on campus or off.
04:34 PM on 02/27/2011
There are reported cases of people with guns saving their lives and saving other victims. Its just that they are overwhelmed by the numbers of cases where guns have been used by criminals to victimize their fellow citizens. Its an issue of statistics and studies have shown that in population centers the fewer guns in circulation the fewer the gun crimes. Admittedly, this does not help the individual unarmed victim when he comes up against an armed robber but even in those cases about 50% of the time just giving the crook the money makes him go away. I'm all for trained people who feel themselves in danger to legally arm themselves, its just that statistically this is not going to help solve the problem. The problem is caused by poverty and its attendent factors of broken homes, poor education, and drug abuse. Solve these, and no one will have to carry a gun anymore.
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JimInHouston
Arma virumque cano...
08:20 PM on 02/27/2011
"There are reported cases of people with guns saving their lives and saving other victims. Its just that they are overwhelme­d by the numbers of cases where guns have been used by criminals to victimize their fellow citizens."

Not so. Guns are used hundreds of thousands to millions of times per year to stop crime. There are about 10,000 homicides by gun.

"Its an issue of statistics and studies have shown that in population centers the fewer guns in circulatio­n the fewer the gun crimes. "

Present links to reliable studies. Good luck with that.

"Admittedly­, this does not help the individual unarmed victim when he comes up against an armed robber but even in those cases about 50% of the time just giving the crook the money makes him go away."

I'm not willing to give a gunman a 50% chance to decide he wants to kill me after taking my wallet.

"I'm all for trained people who feel themselves in danger to legally arm themselves­, its just that statistica­lly this is not going to help solve the problem. "

Demonstrate the statistical validity of this statement.
06:58 AM on 02/26/2011
Gov. Perry holding a starter pistol, standing with two professional race car drivers, celebrating the the the start of professional car racing season/events.

This picture was intentionally inflammatory and completely unrelated to this article as well.Lets see the whole photo, not just the cropped portion.

Anything to make gun owners look reckless and irresponsible. And speaking of irresponsible--whoever approved the use of this photo, needs to write a retraction.
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enlightened45
10:07 AM on 02/26/2011
According to the photo information, they are firing six-shooter pistols.....
11:00 AM on 02/26/2011
Yes, I read that "six shooter pistols" were being fired, it just didn't say it was a starter pistol. Does anyone really think a Gov. would fire a live round up in the air at any event with a bunch of folks around?
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Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
11:12 PM on 02/26/2011
Gee, I'm from Florida and I didn't realize that was Gov. Perry holding the Colt 1873 "Peacemaker" in the air.  I do not see any evidence that the revolver has been fired at all.  I doubt that he would even be firing blanks in that location.  It may not even be a real firearm, imitations, prop guns, replicas, etc. of the "Peacemaker" are readily available in toy stores and elsewhere.
01:12 AM on 02/26/2011
Lets see if we can get some points across.

1. This bill (law if and when it's passed) ONLY affects those who have a CCL.

2. In the State of Texas, if you have a CCL and you drink and drive, (armed or not), and you are arrested, you lose your CCL! This is a point that is brought out in the class (training). BTW .08 BAC does not apply to a CCL holder at least in Texas. One drink can do it if you have a CCL!

3. I served in this country's armed forces BEFORE I went to college. I'm sure that I'm not the only one.

4. Why should my 2A rights be infringed simply because I am in a class room if I am licensed? I'm over 21 and I'm responsible.

5. What makes you think that YOUR beliefs supercede MY RIGHTS? Sorry, this one doesn't compute.

Finally, I'm in favor of this bill. Not necessarily crazy about the Governor, but he has been the lesser of two (sometimes three) evils....
03:52 PM on 02/25/2011
Please Keep colleges safe for robbers and rapists, please continue making licensees store their guns in cars while in class or in the library so there's a better harvest of guns for vehicular burglars than say at Walmart, Shopping Malls, and Church parking lots where those licensees just carry their concealed handguns with them instead of leaving them in cars.

Thank you.

It isn't just the rare mass shootings which are a problem, it's the weekly armed robberies, armed kidnappings etc

Just a couple examples from the MANY:

U of H (second armed robbery in 2 weeks, and a kidnapping... girls beware)
San Antonio College (monthly on campus armed robberies)
This comment has been removed due to violations of our [Guidelines]
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enlightened45
09:37 AM on 02/24/2011
Texas is facing the second highest state deficit in the country....to the tune of about $25,000,000,000, that's billions of dollars in debt that Perry is disavowing the existence of by the use of neocon smoke and mirror trickery. Of course it is politically expedient to appeal to the lowest common denominator of his constituency and advance the cause of dangerous guns into another inappropriate setting. Who cares about the very possible bankruptcy of your state when you can pack guns everywhere...Yeeeee.....Hawwwwwww......
rikilii
Hush, was the first word you were taught...
09:55 AM on 02/24/2011
Run out of meaningful things to say about the actual topic of the article, have we?
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09:58 AM on 02/24/2011
If "Rooster"'s and "mike"'s think-tank, below, is any indication, you may be right.
11:03 AM on 02/24/2011
"............that's billions of dollars in debt that Perry is disavowing the existence of by the use of neocon smoke and mirror trickery........."

"....Of course it is politicall­y expedient to appeal to the lowest common denominato­r of his constituen­cy and advance the cause of......"

"....Who cares about the very possible bankruptcy of your state when..."

Thought you were talking about California for a second ;)
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enlightened45
12:13 PM on 02/24/2011
Not even close, Brown is open and completely transparent with California's problems....
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Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
12:46 AM on 02/24/2011
In New York City only the self-appointed elite may legally keep and bear arms.  You are either an elitist and support gun control or a democratic-republican and support constitutional carry.
http://gothamist.com/2011/02/20/the_faces_of_gun_ownership_in_the_c.php
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08:17 AM on 02/24/2011
I guess Hizzonnor The Mayor doesn't mind if his millonaire/billionaire buddies are carrying guns all over New York. Political persuasion doesn't seem to matter either. We have everyone from Donald Trump to Howard Stern toting concealed firearems. Evidently, all you need to be is rich.

Have you seen the outrageous fees involved in owning a firearm in New York? Tell me they're not designed to keep the 'unwealthy' defenseless.

Can you say "elitist"?
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09:25 AM on 02/24/2011
No, but I can say "the lowest crime rates in NYC since the 60s".
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enlightened45
09:44 AM on 02/24/2011
What, no cheesecake pinup of a mail-order firearm designed to create many innocent victims in seconds....Your links to sales sites are against the HP TOS, if you weren't aware.....
01:51 PM on 02/24/2011
U45--you are in no position to complain about the violation of TOS with your support of guffy and his PROVEN long history of TOS violations--he is lucky to last a week now
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schotts
Work hard, play harder
10:12 PM on 02/23/2011
The March edition of American Rifleman came in today.
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10:56 PM on 02/23/2011
All you need now is a puppy in need of housebreaking.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
11:08 PM on 02/23/2011
At this rate your new username won't last the week.
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schotts
Work hard, play harder
12:07 AM on 02/24/2011
My 6 year old labrador is doing just fine - well past housebreaking but thank you. Hey, Shooting USA is on the Outdoor channel right now. At least where I live.
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schotts
Work hard, play harder
09:12 PM on 02/23/2011
Only 297 to go
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Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
04:50 PM on 02/23/2011
Keep placing your bets ladies and gentleman, the jackpot is almost @ the 10,000 mark.
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schotts
Work hard, play harder
05:03 PM on 02/23/2011
LOL...i was just going to comment that with a little luck, we'll go over 10,000 today.
01:05 AM on 02/24/2011
Great minds think alike!
04:48 PM on 02/23/2011
As a Texas educator I'm in favor. Eligibility is limited to those over 21, training is required and guns are not cheap. In this state anyone can pick up a gun at a gun show without a license and way many of the citizenry have hunting equipment without adequate trigger locks or other safeguards. By the time campus police respond a lot of people could be dead.
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05:04 PM on 02/23/2011
What's the consensus among your peers? Most who have posted here have indicated that they would no longer teach in Texas universities if this legislation passes.
07:19 PM on 02/23/2011
In this economy? The US cranks out almost 6,000 PhD's every year. They could be replaced in a heartbeat. The last tenure track science position that opened up at my school had roughly 2,000 applicants and this was before the recession.
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schotts
Work hard, play harder
09:06 PM on 02/23/2011
Maybe the school will be better off with new teachers.
05:08 PM on 02/23/2011
"anyone can pick up a gun at a gun show without a license"

What license? You don't need a license to buy a gun.
05:12 PM on 02/23/2011
That's why it said "without".
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enlightened45
02:51 PM on 02/23/2011
More guns = Less Carnage is the same as arguing that serving Krispy Kremes at a Weight Watchers' meeting will result in greater weight loss......
02:54 PM on 02/23/2011
Sorry--disarming the lawabiding FAILED at VT, NIU and in DC and Chicago where the only people with guns are the CRIMINALS
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enlightened45
02:56 PM on 02/23/2011
A baseless, untested hypothesis and you should know that....What is that about the King being the Queen?
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Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
03:10 PM on 02/23/2011
"I know Guffie.  I blogged on HuffPo with Guffie.  And you're no Guffie, e45!"
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04:23 PM on 02/23/2011
Odd that someone such as yourself would reference the public humiliation of a Republican politician, by a Democrat, no less.