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Are These People Overpaid?

Firefighters

First Posted: 02/25/11 11:48 AM ET Updated: 05/25/11 07:35 PM ET

MADISON, Wis. -- David Rhode is a paramedic in Middleton, Wis. He works 56 hours a week, mostly in 24-hour shifts, frequently carrying wheezy patients up and down flights of stairs. He said he earns about $43,000 a year.

HuffPost asked Rhode, 36, how it feels to be overpaid. His eyebrows went up.

"I drove my Ford Focus here," he said. "I live in a 950-square-foot condominium!"

Wisconsin has become the front line in a national debate over pay and benefits for unionized public workers, with conservatives arguing that people like Rhode have become a privileged class overburdening taxpayers. Gov. Scott Walker (R) is pushing a budget bill that calls for reduced pay, cuts to pension and health plans, and an end to collective bargaining rights for public workers. Similar measures are popping up in other states as lawmakers cope with recession-fueled deficits.

Rhode said he participated in contract negotiations between the Middleton city administrator and his union, which he said successfully bargained for less vacation time in order to maintain its current level of health coverage. Under the resulting contract, the city covers 95 percent of the cost of premiums. Walker's bill would cap that at 88 percent, which union bosses have said they're willing to accept so long as collective bargaining rights are preserved.

Rhode said the contract negotiations process in which he participated led to a successful compromise. "And that's what they're trying to take away," he said.

The governor's bill, which passed the State Assembly early Friday morning but still needs to go through the State Senate, would preserve collective bargaining rights for some public-safety workers like firefighters, emergency medical technicians, police and state troopers. Nevertheless, local cops and firefighters have shown solidarity with other union workers and expressed concern that their bargaining rights will be the next to go. They've joined the tens of thousands of protesters who've occupied the capitol building in Madison since the beginning of last week.

That's where HuffPost encountered Rhode on Thursday evening, wearing a blue T-shirt from the International Association of Fire Fighters, looking down on the crazy carnival scene in the rotunda. Protesters banged drums and danced while debate over amendments to Walker's bill droned through golden loudspeakers anchored on the walls. Many people had set up sleeping bags and air mattresses.

On the second floor, HuffPost met Erica McCool, a seventh-grade English teacher in Stoughton, carrying a sign that said she wouldn't let Walker into her classroom because he's a bully. A former paralegal, McCool said she she started studying to get a Wisconsin educator license in 2005 and now earns about $30,000 a year as an English teacher. She loves her job but laughed when asked whether she considered herself overprivileged.

"I can't get a home loan. I set my thermostat at 62. No cable at my house, no internet," said McCool, 29. "I'm also $36,000 in debt from becoming a teacher."

On the ground floor, Madison resident Pete Silva told HuffPost he had been a firefighter for 26 years when he retired in September at age 52. Silva said he worked 56 hours a week, often 24-hour shifts, driving a fire engine in response to fires and medical emergencies. He said his salary started at $31,000 and had reached $60,000 by the time he retired.

Silva said his pension provides $30,000 a year, which isn't enough for him to live on, so he's taken a job as an instructor in the Wisconsin Technical College System, earning roughly $55,000 a year. His total income is significantly higher than what he earned as a firefighter, but he makes no apologies, arguing that a nice pension was part of the deal he made in exchange for his decades in a dangerous job. He said he sustained two neck injuries from lifting "very, very heavy patients" and has had to replace herniated discs.

"We had the promise of stable retirement," Silva said, after a career spent in what he described as frequent contact with human blood, puke and poop. "You'd be amazed how much poop is out there," he added.

As for the push to limit the rights and funds enjoyed by unionized public workers, Silva said, "People hate to see someone doing better than they are."

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MADISON, Wis. -- David Rhode is a paramedic in Middleton, Wis. He works 56 hours a week, mostly in 24-hour shifts, frequently carrying wheezy patients up and down flights of stairs. He said he earns a...
MADISON, Wis. -- David Rhode is a paramedic in Middleton, Wis. He works 56 hours a week, mostly in 24-hour shifts, frequently carrying wheezy patients up and down flights of stairs. He said he earns a...
 
 
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COMMUNITY PUNDITS
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Marcospinelli 12:27 PM on 02/25/2011
Democrats don't care about unions, except to use them during elections.

Both Republicans and Democrats want to return us to the 1920s.

Wages are going down in this country for everyone, and when you destroy unions, there will be no standard at all for any workers.  There will be nobody left to negotiate decent jobs and wages for anyone.  With unions representing workers, private  Read More...
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12:10 PM on 03/23/2011
RECALL!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
deans2cents
I speak my mind...
09:47 AM on 03/03/2011
When is Gov Walker's paycheck, expenses, expense acct, and etc going to come under scrutiny? Walker is by a far extremely overpaid and the first thing that needs to bet cut is him and his free spending for self interest attitude!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
builderman55
Featherless Biped
11:58 PM on 03/02/2011
Hey, all of that largesse he takes home would be much better distributed to the Pirate class. How dare the middle class demand fair wages, benefits and basic health care when there is so much more room in the bank vaults of Americas CEO's, those people who brought us all the fun and excitement of the last 4 years. Yer a bunch of Socialists....
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
padrushka
question authority
12:33 PM on 03/02/2011
A better question, are wall street ceo's overpaid? Are congressmen overpaid? And they all provide what kind of service?When their pay is in sync with the gereral population get back to us.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
TheDuke75
Of the People, For the People and By the People
12:01 PM on 03/01/2011
A Camden NJ city firefighter was seriously burned in a fire because of budget cuts which led to layoffs caused reduced manning and the closure of 4 fire companies in the city. One chief position which operated as a safety chief was eliminated and a rescue and ladder company were closed. Had those companies been in service, the firefighter may not have been caught in a flashover. Needed ventilation would have been performed in a timely fashion. What qualifies me to comment on this? 27 years as a volunteer firefighter, chief officer and instructor.


Also, on the subject of the second most dangerous city in the US, aggreavated assaults and robberies are up over 200%. Of course the 168 cops that got laid off didn't help now that 12 cops are on the streets per shift. So yeah they are worth it. Those who advocate what Walker and others are trying to do, I hope you aren't in need of help from these folks. And I'm not going to leave out the teachers who have always paid for supplies out of pocket because they were told by the school distrcit no money was available for them to get things to help teach the kids.
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11:29 AM on 03/01/2011
TO - justapasserby -
I'm responding to the reply you left concerning the comment I made.
Within part of your comment you stated - " forced to go to Wisconsin" - Please reread the comment I made - I DID NOT state that anyone was "forced" to go to Wisconsin. No where within my comment was the word "forced" used.
I accept your apology.
11:22 PM on 02/28/2011
The Political Economy of Government Employee Unions

The main reason so many state and local governments are bankrupt, or on the verge of bankruptcy, is the combination of government-run monopolies and government-employee unions. Government-employee unions have vastly more power than do private-sector unions because the entities they work for are typically monopolies.

When the employees of a grocery store, for example, go on strike and shut down the store, consumers can simply shop elsewhere, and the grocery-store management is perfectly free to hire replacement workers. In contrast, when a city teachers’ or garbage-truck drivers’ union goes on strike, there is no school and no garbage collection as long as the strike goes on. In addition, teachers’ tenure (typically after two or three years in government schools) and civil service regulations make it extremely costly if not virtually impossible to hire replacement workers.
05:59 PM on 03/13/2011
Please stop perpetuating the lie that teachers cannot be fired due to tenure. Tenure, which is earned after 4 yrs., only guarantees an employee due process. Tenured employees can be terminated, but the administration must show just cause based on their work performance not personal reasons.
06:00 PM on 03/13/2011
The main reason many state and local governments are bankrupt is not because of teachers or public sector unions, but because of taxes being shifted to the less wealthy. Somehow, many, NOT ALL, businesses/wealthy believe they have no responsibility for the community they live in or for the services they and their workers benefit from i.e. libraries, roads, safe food, education, clean up after natural disasters, first responders, etc.
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reviewingthesituation
Southern liberal feminist
03:37 PM on 02/28/2011
Now that the right has decided that public workers are rapacious to think they deserve a pension, why don't we extend the logic to congressmen and military personnel? If a 401K is good enough for teachers, why isn't it good enough for congressmen and colonels?

(The answer will be, in the case of the military, because the thing that keeps a lot of soldiers and sailors hanging in there after being shuttled in and out of Iraq and Afghanistan a few times is the pension. And guaranteed medical insurance for their families. Maybe the answer would be to stop shuttling the same soldiers and sailors in and out of shooting galleries, but that's just me. As for congressmen, they should have to live with what they support as fair for public workers in their home states.)
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Andrea J Petro
Intuitive/Psychic Consultant
02:49 PM on 02/28/2011
Exxcuse Me???? I dont but after have a close friend perish in a fire because of budget cuts is why I commented in the first place. Before you assume someone works for the govt maybe you should ask first. PS I was one of the ones that got taxes raised on. I take offense to your comment. I usually dont comment on forums in general because of these kinds of comments.
11:34 AM on 02/28/2011
Simple question- to bring wage increases, why not repeal NAFTA to bolster our industrial base?

Simple answer- not gonna happen, because even a leftist president, is still an elitist and elitist's down give a squat about any of us. But you can keep that dream alive, along with the rest of the pundits who actually believe in this dog and pony show.
After 2 tours in Iraq, I'm beginning to see how this works.
03:25 PM on 02/28/2011
absolutely! It's all a show. They spend more money on hegemony than they do right here, domestically.
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reviewingthesituation
Southern liberal feminist
03:39 PM on 02/28/2011
NAFTA had nothing to do with our trade imbalances with China. Stop worrying about Mexico and Canada's "dog and pony shows" and focus on that big sucking sound called The Department of Defense.
04:49 PM on 02/28/2011
"NAFTA had nothing to do with our trade imbalances with China"

-Tell that to the African-American blue collar communities, that have gone to spit with the evaporation of jobs in factories and manufacturing facilities, that enabled them to hold their families together.
04:27 PM on 03/03/2011
While I agree with your posts, for the most part, NAFTA did have something to do with China. Not directly, but indirectly. But, you are right about the MIAC. I alluded to it in my post. That's where the money funnels thru to the geo-political expenditures.
11:16 AM on 02/28/2011
Complaining, complaining and more complaining...do you know that all this people are above the minimum wage and make more money than most families in America. Union people stop living outside your means and you will see how much money you can save. Get a minimum wage job if you are laid off. I know must have too much pride to and leave this to illegals that care less about appearances. Welcome to reality America.
11:18 AM on 02/28/2011
And we can surely see how cutting back on education and teachers has helped you...
01:58 PM on 02/28/2011
You can also see what we're up against. How can one formulate a logical argument when the "other side" is ignorantly listening to the false rumors that are being circulated? It's hard to check your sources when you don't read.
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bmc0718
03:54 PM on 02/28/2011
I think your comment shows exactly what one of the people in the article said. People who arent doing as well as these individuals wish them ill. Mind you - those same people wouldn't want to do the jobs these folks do. The wouldn't want to put themselves in harms way, as fire fighters or police officers. They wouldn't want to be an EMT and go through all the rigors of the education and the work. The wouldn't want to get an undergraduate degree in education that will barely pay for itself because of low teacher salaries. This comment is pretty telling indeed...
This comment has been removed due to violations of our [Guidelines]
09:33 AM on 02/28/2011
Matt Bai from the NYTMag said it best
" ...politicians are using corporate America's bad behavior as an excuse to take benefits away from the last set of union members who managed to cling to them-those in the public sector."
09:12 AM on 02/28/2011
Here's overpaid:

Oprah ................................... $260 million
Jerry Bruckhiemer (producer)... $120 million
Steven Spielberg..................... $110 million
Tiger Woods........................... $100 million
Johnny Depp........................... $ 92 million
Jay-Z..................................... $ 83 million
Tom Hanks............................. $ 74 million
Madonna................................ $ 72 million
Howard Stern......................... $ 70 million
Bon Jovi................................. $ 67 million
All That money,
for making a movie or 2, hitting a little ball in a hole, or flapping your jaws.
10:01 AM on 02/28/2011
Right on the head!

Bam!

But they're all such wonderful people.
10:05 AM on 02/28/2011
Here's one to add to your list:

Barack Obama............................$400K
09:05 AM on 02/28/2011
Legacy costs, not the newbs who are coming into the field, since the rules were changed, are the basis of the problem. It's the same thing that happened to GM.

Only issue with Walker's plan is that he isn't meting it out, evenly. It's my opinion that ALL state workers, including Walker, agency workers, state legislators, firemen, bus drivers, teachers, cops, all of them, should be taking these same necessary "cuts".

The teacher's union is worthless. Just last week, the teacher's union gave away almost every benefit that substitutes had, at an "emergency" meeting, freaking out over what Walker "might" do. Without cause, here is what they did, in their moment of delusion, convincing the membership that this was in their best interest: If you can keep a straight face... well, here:

In about a year, from full health care to NONE. No vacancy pay for long term assignments where the sub has to do report cards, meet with parents, etc. Banked sick hours will be deleted. There will be no geographical consideration, sending subs 40 miles to a one day assignment. No sick pay or insurance in a virus infested environment. Don't like your class? Tough it out, or get fired. Get this: You can't take off for JURY DUTY or Army or National Guard duty, it will be held against you like a refusal to work. ~?~
ANYONE want THAT job for $30,000? LOL.
12:51 PM on 02/28/2011
Where do subs get $30,000/year? It's $95/day here.
02:59 PM on 02/28/2011
They get $150 a day, gross. If you had to work in Milwaukee, you'd want a LOT more, I guarantee. Naughtiest little punks in the world. They start misbehaving in 4 year old kindergarten. Every school on Milwaukee's north side is a ghetto school where kids have no families, no guidance, no manners, etc. They think they have manners, that their lifestyle is different than "y'allz'. So, what is acceptable to Blacks in the system, is NOT what whites would expect, in a general way. So, Black teachers won't report certain bad behaviors, since, to them, the behavior isn't THAT bad. The system is so overwhelmed by bad kids that the psychologists won't even start files on the kids until they reach, at least, 1st grade. All it takes are two bad kids to disrupt the entire day. Ask a 4 year old to do something correctly, and have them tell you "I ain't doin' it" with their arms folded up.... or how about the kid who craps in another kid's shoe in the coat room? Or the 4 year old who punched his pregnant teacher in the stomach and pulled her hair. It's crazy.
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bmc0718
03:58 PM on 02/28/2011
Wow - glad you think all black people in the North Side of Milwaukee have no common sense and no idea how to raise their kids *rolls eyes at the ignorance of your comment. "They" don't all start misbehaving at age 4, and to "blacks" in the system - not all behave in that way. Evidently your education wasn't great, or you'd know about the existence of words like "some" or "a few" or even "many", but to just lump everyone from one race in one geographical area shows that perhaps it's you that doesn't know what's acceptable...