Ground Zero Imam Champions Church-State Separation

By Richard Yeakley
Religion News Service

WASHINGTON -- The imam who has faced resistance for plans to build an Islamic community center near Ground Zero said Tuesday (March 1) that pro-democracy movements across the Arab world need to be open to all faiths.

"Government's coercive powers should not be used against one religion," Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf said at a panel on "Religion in American Politics and Society" hosted by Georgetown University.

Rauf spoke alongside Asma Uddin, the founder and editor-in-chief of the Islamic gender issues website altmuslimah.com, and Ed Husain, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations.

The panel addressed whether or not the American model of faith and politics should be a template for emerging democracies -- even as Rauf has faced pressure not to build an Islamic center near a site that a majority of Americans consider "sacred ground."

Building a society around a "homogenous" set of ideas is dangerous and is not what the United States was founded on, said Rauf.

At the same time, the artwork or symbols of other faiths should never be insulted or mocked, added Rauf. "We must respect others' traditions."

The imam only briefly mentioned the controversial Park51 center, saying he wanted to show sensitivity to victims and families of the 9/11 attacks and saying his dream for the center is still alive.

Comments

[Larry Putnam]

09:38 PM on 03/25/2011

Interesting Post: I found http://altmuslimah.com/ what seems to be some progress in the area of women rights.

.

[Catherine WasmerJackson]

09:14 PM on 03/25/2011

Muslims died in the WTC too.

[xMoonWalkerx]

03:27 PM on 03/06/2011

This man should be championing church state separation in Islamic countries. These countries wouldn't be called as Islamic countries if they were following this high principal.

[Mark Webber]

02:32 PM on 03/05/2011

"Ground Zero Imam Champions Church-State Separation "

- Ground Zero has an Imam. Muslims trying to own ground zero : )

[American Air]

07:20 AM on 03/05/2011

Let all Imams including him Champions Mosque-State Separation in every Islamic country of the world...and lets see if they would be alive to tell about it.

[TiredInPDX]

12:29 AM on 03/17/2011

"The imam who has faced resistance for plans to build an Islamic community center near Ground Zero said Tuesday (March 1) that pro-democracy movements across the Arab world need to be open to all faiths."

Essentially that is what he is saying.

[Mark Webber]

04:11 AM on 03/04/2011

I have a question:

Which is holier freedom of speech or Islam and religion, and when the two go against each other which side do you choose?

I f I want to draw and publish jokes and cartoons about Islam, Jesus, Allah, God Jahwa. Krishna, Mohammad and Aisha. Who is to stop me or threaten me?

I think religion is not holy it is hallucinations followed by brain washed believers who think they are special.

[dancingstu]

02:18 PM on 03/04/2011

Thankfully you're entitled to keep your opinion, but not to put your opinion into any kind of action.
 
So please feel free to keep spouting your insults.  You are actually doing a favor for us, at least for the Christians.

[Mark Webber]

05:33 PM on 03/04/2011

"Thankfully you're entitled to keep your opinion, but not to put your opinion into any kind of action."

- What will happen if I put my opinions to actions dear?

[TiredInPDX]

12:32 AM on 03/17/2011

If it isn't brainwashing what is it? How many Catholics take their kids to all the different religions in town and give them a choice? How many Muslims to it? Did you?

[Mark Webber]

04:26 PM on 03/03/2011

Here is the website "http://altmuslimah.com/" mentioned in the article. I checked it and guess what kind of articles I found there:

“Manhood” and the mosque

Why I Drag My Family to Community Café

Skateistan: Gender and Skateboarding

Eradicate Masculinity

The role of masculinity in the Egyptian uprising

A crucial attempt to humanize Muslim Americans

Between worlds: Jilbab and transgender in Indonesia

Lessons in manliness

[Doug Sandlin]

10:10 PM on 03/03/2011

And?

Isn't an ultra-liberal Muslim website a good thing?

[Mark Webber]

04:04 AM on 03/04/2011

No it is very good. It seems drape covered muslim women have obsessive fixation with manliness and masculinit­y : ).

[Doug Sandlin]

10:17 PM on 03/03/2011

Alt.muslimah is the website of Asma Uddin, a Muslim attorney who writes about Muslim and gender issues; she also writes for Huffington Post.

A Huffington Post commenter who frequently participates in Islam-related discussions, a certain Jan Allen McDaniel (you may have heard of him), has written:

"Ms. Uddin, I admire your ability to write about contentious
issues with clarity and balance. Would there were more like
you here at Huffpo."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/asma-uddin/post_1740_b_824234.html

To which another frequent commenter on Islam-related articles, one Erewhon7 offered a supportive "Amen".

"Just FYI."

[xMoonWalkerx]

03:31 PM on 03/06/2011

Hahaha..if Jan has given her a two thumbs up, she must definitely be free of the virus of Islamist ideology.

[Mark Webber]

01:04 PM on 03/03/2011

No really...
Does that mean cartoonist­s are safe to draw about Islam, Mohammad and Aisha now?

[Mark Webber]

04:24 PM on 03/03/2011

Doug.....Indy ... are you there ? Why don't you answer... anyone there ??!?

[Doug Sandlin]

10:06 PM on 03/03/2011

I was offline .... actual life intervened; doesn't happen often, but there you have it.

My answer: the idiots who think that killing someone over a cartoon is somehow the will of Allah don't listen to people like Imam Rauf any more than they listen to people like you or me (who don't have a lot in common, other than, presumably, 100% recognition of the idiocy of killing someone over a cartoon).

Imam Rauf is doing his best to help shift mindsets in both the Muslim and non-Muslim worlds -- but I'm not optimistic that the current crop of extremist idiots is "shiftable", because extremists tend not to be too open to shifting; they're too convinced they're right and that everyone else is wrong.

Imam Rauf has said "we must wage peace" ... and I agree with him.

It's going to take some time, though.

And in the meantime, extremist idiots will likely continue to be (extremist idiots).

[Mark Webber]

08:24 AM on 03/03/2011

If Rauf was not telling the truth here then it is just to further promote Islam and protect it's interests in the land of the infidels. Allah agrees.

[Mark Webber]

08:23 AM on 03/03/2011

... Really it is OK to lie in Islam : ) : )

[Doug Sandlin]

08:36 AM on 03/03/2011

"... Really it is OK to lie in Islam : ) : ) "

I don't normally point out typos, but that one changed the meaning of your entire comment. It's pretty obvious you meant to write:

"... Really it is OK to lie about Islam : ) : ) "

... and kudos for letting us know how you really feel about that, but we've already figured that out from your many amazingly consistent comments.

And suffice it to say that many of us disagree, hence our ongoing clarifications and corrections to those lies.

[Mark Webber]

10:12 AM on 03/03/2011

...But but righteous lies and assassinations are allowed by Allah in his Islam. It is a moral and obligated act of worship Doug. Your muslim brethren surely informed you.

Pakistani Minister For Minorities Killed In Gun Attack In Islamabad
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/02/pakistani-minister-shahbaz-bhatti-killed_n_830111.html

[Manhajsadiqeen]

12:36 PM on 03/03/2011

This is not the case: The total misunderstanding of the word that many in the west use to say Muslims can lie to anyone at anytime.

The Muslim is required to be truthful at all times, and when faced with calamities or possible lost of life, one could lie to protect oneself, this is no different than any other human being facing similiar circumstances would do the same.

Under the shari'ah a merchant who is Muslim has two men who are Jewish, they want to buy his goods, and when they asked if these products are new. The merchants says 'yes', when in fact they are not, would be guilty of lying and deception. The same two customers could report him to police and he would be summon to shari'ah court.

The above falls in line with figh and there is ahadiths to support this.

Lying for the sake of lying is a grave sin in Islam and the prophet sws said in a sahih ahadith that the person who is a liar would be branded this way on the day of judgement.

In essence, no, lying is sinful period unless in dire situations or in situations that could cause hurt; you lie to spare the feelings of another, which we all have done with family or friends, especially concerning food that someone offers you and it taste bad but you say it was good for the sake of sparing their feelings.

Review figh on this issue.

[Doug Sandlin]

01:31 AM on 03/03/2011

A good video on understanding others' religions in America, featuring Imam Rauf:

http://www.cordobainitiative.org/2010/10/americans-struggle-to-understand-others-beliefs/

[Mark Webber]

07:57 AM on 03/03/2011

.... And here is what Rauf stands for:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[Doug Sandlin]

12:16 PM on 03/03/2011

No, here is what Rauf stands for, as evidenced by his direct involvement (as opposed to the anti-Muslim site you linked to, where he has no direct involvement).

http://charterforcompassion.org/learn/talks/imam-faisal-abdul-rauf

[truthupontruth]

09:47 PM on 03/02/2011

I think the Imam should have made it clear that he means the broader understanding of Church in the the Church-State divide, meaning any dominant organized religion within any state, and that he is not singling out Christianity.
When millions of Muslims continue to live in the US and practice their faith, they are usually quite happy to follow the laws of the country, as the laws do not prohibit freedom of speech, or freedom of assembly, or freedom of religion, and Muslims can pretty much fulfill the requirements of their faith with the latitude provided by those three rules, and live their lives subject to the same laws of everyone else the rest of the time.

[truthupontruth]

09:22 PM on 03/02/2011

Makes sense to me - blind allegiance to one homogeneous set of ideas is what allows majorities to oppress any minority that shows up - KKK, anyone?
The Constitution is a marvelous document in that it allows for ideas to live and breathe and be argued over, and it allows for controversies to be wrestled with in the broad glare of the public, and, most importantly, it allows for values and principles to stand towering over partisan issues, religious dogma, or corrupt hidden agendas. The American experiment, with all its warts, is one of the best systems in the world, in theory and in practice. I think that opponents of it who decry the rampant sex, drugs, and other lower diversions are probably living in places where stuff like that doesn't make the news or the popular entertainment media, so they can pretend that it has never existed where they are. The reality is that humans the world over are remarkably similar. For example, the troll.s on this forum are just another flavor of the 'Death to America' chanters found overseas.
Remarkable!!

[Doug Sandlin]

11:07 PM on 03/02/2011

"the troll.s on this forum are just another flavor of the 'Death to America' chanters found overseas."

Insightful; Faved.

And yes, all religions have the same spectrum .... the ultra-literal-minded, uber-conservative religious types live in places like Tennessee and Saudi Arabia; the fact that their religions are "different" is almost laughable ... both sets of people are all about controlling others, based on their rigid ideas.

They (Christian "flavor" and Muslim "flavor") have a lot more in common with each other, than they do with the mystics of either religion ... and Imam Rauf is a mystical Sufi Muslim.

He's peaceful, tolerant and open-minded .... which is rather staggeringly obvious (and why ministers and rabbis have liked respected and supported him for decades) unless someone is trying to shoehorn his words into their own incorrect ideas about him.

Some here are about divisiveness and fear.

Some of us are about unity, reality and moving forward positively -- and this second group very much includes Imam Rauf.

[John Robbins]

06:45 PM on 03/02/2011

You cannot have church state separation if you want to use the power of the state to restrict free speech about faith, as Rauf wants to do.

[Doug Sandlin]

08:31 PM on 03/02/2011

When and where did he say that?

[AdamWest1313]

01:10 AM on 03/03/2011

Chances are he didn't, and John Robbins just wanted him to have said it so badly that he convinced himself.

[loOranks]

06:06 AM on 03/03/2011

In his own book "What's Right with Islam: A New Vision for Muslims and the West", which was first published in Malaysia under the title "A Call to Prayer from the World Trade Center Rubble: Islamic Dawa in the Heart of America Post-9/11".

In his book, he places himself as an open proponent of Sharia, which denies equality of rights to women and non-Muslims and restricts the freedom of speech.

[ethiopia1a]

03:26 PM on 03/02/2011

blah blah blah

[Mark Webber]

08:01 AM on 03/03/2011

That my fiend is blasphemy.