Assembly Blocks Bill To End 'Last In, First Out' Teacher Layoff Rule (VIDEO)

Mayor Bloomberg's dreams of ending the "last in, first out" rule for laying off teachers appear to be crushed.

Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver said his chamber would not consider a bill that would immediately end the teacher layoff rule, which requires that less experienced teachers are laid off first, before long-time educators (as opposed to on 'merit', which is what Bloomberg is fighting for).

The bill made it through the Republican controlled state Senate, but stalled in the Assembly, which is majority Democrat.

Adding to Bloomberg's woes, the mayor now finds himself at odds with Governor Cuomo on the issue.

Though Cuomo had indicated that he supported ending the "last in, first out" rule, the governor favors a slower approach to scrapping the policy.

The mayor's office said Cuomo prefers a plan that would allow the teachers' union to sign off on an evaluation system. School districts would have to show two years of ineffective ratings before a teacher could be cut based on performance.

"It is time to move beyond the so-called 'last-in, first-out' system of relying exclusively on seniority," Cuomo said. "However, we need a legitimate evaluation system to rely upon."

Bloomberg was blindsided by Cuomo's more cautious approach.

"We need the governor to help us now by putting something in this budget by Thursday that lets us not have to use seniority when it comes to laying off teachers," Bloomberg said.

Opponents of the rule argue that the most effective teachers should be the ones allowed to keep their jobs, regardless of age or experience.

The state AFL-CIO and other backers of the policy argue that the rule guards against teachers being fired for arbitrary reasons by administrators. They also note that supposedly objective criteria to base teacher performance on, like test scores, are unreliable.

Bloomberg has said Cuomo's budget proposal will require him to cut more than 6,000 teachers through layoffs and attrition.

WATCH NBC New York's coverage of the mayor's stinging defeat.

View more videos at: http://www.nbcnewyork.com.

Comments

[Derek Hummel]

09:27 AM on 03/19/2011

What Governor Cuomo is trying to say is "I really have no idea what to do on this and have minimal interest, so I'm just gonna take care of it after I've finished pushing for the indictment of every Wall Street Banker in my state"

And I mean that in a really good way :-)

[Dreamofflowers]

08:26 AM on 03/07/2011

I have an idea, put Bloomberg in a classroom with 30 ESL first graders and evaluate him based on their State exams-

[silverstreet]

11:08 AM on 03/05/2011

It's an excuse to get rid of the more highly paid teachers. I've seen this many times in business. As soon as the employee is about to qualify for a higher tier pension -- he is laid off, fired, axed. Happens all the time. Experienced teachers usually are the better teachers -- and can teach the younger teachers and serve as role models

[rwmorell]

08:18 AM on 03/06/2011

Thats what a bad teacher will use in order to divert the real problem which is the I am entitled teachers. I dont care how long they've been teaching if they are'nt good get rid of them. They hide behind the union and tenure and don't do the job. I have seen it time and again and I cannot wait until these pathetic excuses for a teacher are gone. Its not an age issue is hiding the bad teachers.If you are a good teacher you have nothing to worry about.

[Terry Kalb]

11:45 AM on 03/06/2011

Not true- excellent teachers have plenty to worry about. There are principals who would prefer to hire their nephews, or daughter-in-laws. There are school boards who would eliminate all teachers who have become too expensive to save money and keep class sizes down. There are administrators who are annoyed by creative teachers who think outside the box. What we really need is a better, faster system of expediting the release of inept teachers on a case by case basis. Tenure protects good teachers from incompetent or vindictive administrators.

[Intelligentia]

09:08 PM on 03/03/2011

Mayor Bloomberg had the right idea but it wasn't going anywhere anyway; and, he knew it.

[EmmaNYC]

11:40 PM on 03/06/2011

Bloomberg hasn't had a right idea yet.

[whatsgoingon]

12:01 PM on 03/03/2011

It seems to many wrenches thrown into the machine.
How come they don't ask the teacher's for their imput.
Didn't the teaher's give up their raise last year.
There seems to be hardly any support for the teacher
inside or outside the building they teach in.

[richj45]

07:51 AM on 03/03/2011

Mayor Bloomberg's attempt at being Scott Walker "lite"

[Jennifer Haase]

09:29 PM on 03/02/2011

I am a teacher in NYC (8 years now) and I am FOR last in, first out. To take away seniority is to rip apart our union. It will allow the higher ups to fire "at will". A teacher (God forbid!) shows a video relevant to the unit they're teaching? Fire them! A teacher who lives out in Long Island and calls in three times in one month because there is 15 inches of snow on the ground? Fire them! Or...a teacher has low test scores because three students in one class were absent over 60 times in one school year, mommy is smoking crack at home and has no idea what is going on, one student cuts all the time, and half the class doesn't do homework. Fire them! If you don't teach, and never have, you have no right to say anything. Nobody, and I mean nobody knows what it is like to teach. Test scores mean nothing and will never prove how effective a teacher is...

If it were up to me, if there was any merit, one would have to look at all the assignments a student has done (those students who do work) to the best of their ability. Only then will one see what a teacher has taught and what a student has learned.

[anthonytaurus]

10:25 PM on 03/02/2011

I think everyone is correct on this but not coming together on a plan because for some reason everyone is just political opponents. Bloomberg is right that teacher employment should be based on merit. We want the best and brightest teachers that NYC can get and keep. He is also right that LIFO is a terrible. It punishes teachers who didn't even have a chance to prove their worth and it protects those teachers who have been proven to be a liability. I think Cuomo is looking for a fair way to go about this. Guess what? YOU have the best plan. I thought the same thing a long time ago myself but I'm no teacher and I don't even have kids.

Perhaps, you need to speak to Cuomo directly. Let there be a merit system that promises TOTAL ACCOUNTABILITY - scores, students' efforts, parental involvement, books, materials, as well as the teacher evaluations. It should judge 3 main areas - student/parent, teacher, and administration. Are the students and parents doing their part in and out of school? Does the teacher come on time, show class control, etc? Are there enough updated books for the students?

You're right. All they look at are these arbitrary scores that can't begin to tell the whole story. All this information is practically collected every day by the teacher and as I understand it a special program is used. All you need is central database to crunch the numbers.

[lcr999]

12:05 AM on 03/03/2011

All other professionals are retained on the basis of merit (or lack there of). I know of none, except maybe for airline pilots, that rely on seniority. Evaluation of professionals is certainly possible and effective.

I will have to agree with Cuomo however on this. It can't be done overnight as you need an evaluation history. And it takes good administrators to do it.

[changing]

01:13 AM on 03/03/2011

Please-nurses, pilots, office workers. Lots of workers have seniority retention whether they are union or not. Sometimes it is just informal. Only makes sense. Folks who have been working at the company for years versus the newbies of course should be retained.
Crazy to try to evaluate a large group of folks for "merit" ranking all the time. Would cause absolute chaos. Why would anyone not be looking every day of your life for another job if they can be dumped on so called merit anytime? Teachers really can't be evaluated on this merit baloney. Teachers have difficult skill sets. Some teachers are great at some areas while others are great at other areas. It is a cooperative team effort in schools-not some nasty contest to win some brownie points to keep your job with the principal. Teachers are to be evaluated for competency period. Like doctors, lawyers, policemen, etc. I shudder to think that teachers would be ranked for firing on some test score too. So teachers if this insanity ever comes to pass, go to a rich school, teach to the test, and butter up the principal and the parents. Otherwise you will out on the street with no job and no health care.

[Brak55]

05:17 PM on 03/02/2011

Not retaining the best vs. the longest employed is just one more step in the U.S.'s race to the bottom. Our school systems need to keep the best and brightest whether they have five or fifty years of experience.

[TeeSC]

05:57 PM on 03/02/2011

I agree.  As a Democrat I am very disappointed that our party doesn't support the "merit" position 100%. 

[corwin]

06:21 PM on 03/02/2011

This must be a joke.There's no such thing as merit.Or reality

[brooklyncitizen]

06:50 PM on 03/02/2011

It's a Republic not a meritocracy.

[brooklyncitizen]

06:54 PM on 03/02/2011

I think the problem is in assuming that it is mutually exclusive.
It is expedient to assume that this is an issue of poor qualified old timers rather than simply money and cutting corners.
Teachers with the most experience are the highest paid of course this is what the mayor wants to eliminate. If he monitored the corruption within his Administration we may not be having this discussion.
Teachers start out at $45,000 per year, and that is with a Master's degree.Tenured teachers are easily making 30-40% more. It is a math problem not a quality teachers problem.
And closing schools is not improving the education of our kids. It is shameful what this Mayor has done to its city's schools and children.

[mibwilso]

09:09 AM on 03/03/2011

No, it's not just expedient. I'm a teacher myself (Not a newbie, but not "old" either)

And I can't tell you how frustrating it is to work really hard, but get paid less than the "veteran teacher" who's down the hall handing out worksheets and playing videos all day...especially knowing that my students do just as well or better than hers. The only reason we're paid differently is because she's been around longer.

[TeeSC]

12:38 PM on 03/04/2011

I'm not sure I agree with the 45K with a Master's degree.  Sure isn't the case where I'm from and it's at the VERY bottom of the scale.  New teachers make pretty close to that with no Master's degree.  And my sister, who has her Master's, makes considerably more than that.  She's under something referred to as "at will" now.  She's technically retired and receiving retirement but they hired her back "at will".  She made 10% less last year and 20% less this year.  She's lost 10 contract days as well.  So it is coming out of pocket.  She has made perfectly clear her suggestion that any teacher with 15 years should accept a 5% reduction if they want to keep their job. 

[brooklyncitizen]

04:57 PM on 03/02/2011

Our esteemed mayor needs to watch corruption within his administration rather than going after teachers and much needed public servants. $80 million were stolen from the city's coffers a journalist exposed the scandal behind Mayor Mike Bloomberg’s attempt to create a new computerized payroll system called CityTime. The reporting helped lead to the federal indictment of four consultants and two associates on charges that they orchestrated a fraud that cost city taxpayers more than $80 million. Only $17 million has been recovered.The director of the NYC payroll dept has resigned.

Way to go Bloomberg!You are doing great in your illegal third term.

[mibwilso]

09:11 AM on 03/03/2011

It's not illegal if the city council approved it. Vote them out if you don't like it.

[brooklyncitizen]

11:37 AM on 03/03/2011

He changed the term limit not the city council.

[homer9]

04:42 PM on 03/02/2011

The feelings expressed by so many re unionism in general is shocking to me . They dont seem to realize how close any worker may be to losing livelihood, and everything that comes with it such as home, savings etc. Is this survival of the fittest? and most here cant imagine that they could be toppled by a spiteful boss, an illness etc ? These union benefits which protect the average unionized worker are standard in most of Europe because it is seen that the wealthy are selfish and privatization will usually be problematic because the bottom line doesnt include the workers.
Europeans realize that without worker protections they become serf and their masters , again.

Such sympathy for the young teachers is misplaced. In 1970 they were let go, and rehired not long afterwards.Also, If a school is hard hit by losses, teachers will be shifted to that school. Amazing how tea party money has twisted minds! Furthermore,our middle and upper classes do as well as any academically. The lower classes need to be helped by redistribution within society, in order to change things for the better.Also, bring back manufacturing and teach vocational skills which can always be of value .

[Dukette]

05:30 PM on 03/02/2011

The only sympathy I have is for the children. Why do they not deserve the the best teachers available, whether a newer teacher or a more experienced teacher?

[TeeSC]

06:02 PM on 03/02/2011

I so agree.  It makes me LIVID that people are more concerned about themselves than they are the very people they are tasked with helping... the children.

[TeeSC]

06:02 PM on 03/02/2011

BS... a spiteful boss isn't going to be able to get rid of a teacher any more than they would have been able to.  The union is gonna make sure of that. 
You want to protect an inefficient teacher because she/he has got a family?  I say that that teacher should have been caring a little more about her/his security all along.  I am MUCH MORE interested in seeing our children having the BEST teachers possible. 

[ny rebel]

04:15 PM on 03/02/2011

What did you expect? The Assembly is just an albatross around the New York taxpayers neck. After living upstate in NY for 23 years, our goal is to leave here when we can sell our house for a relatively good price. This state is all about high property taxes. The cap couldn't keep me here. The state I came from - everybody paid. It's called sales tax. The more you spend, the more you pay. I could never afford my taxes here after retirement. It's just too much. With the Assembly in charge, business will continue to leave NY and the taxes will continue to climb. I know of families that lost their homes just over taxes. Not the mortgage, etc., just the taxes. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THE ASSEMBLY? Oh, they're probably all wealthy.

[brooklyncitizen]

07:01 PM on 03/02/2011

Please leave, upstaters have been subsidized by New York City for too long.

[kingbarry]

04:13 PM on 03/02/2011

Union buster!!!

[mibwilso]

03:36 PM on 03/02/2011

I would argue that an experienced teacher who is really good is worth the extra money...and I think most competent principals would agree.

I've worked with several principals in my career, and I don't know many principals who would let a truly good veteran teacher go in favor of someone who's a crap-shoot.

The only time I've seen principals favor younger teachers is when they are dissatisfied with the quality of the older teachers.

[leftbehind2000]

04:19 PM on 03/02/2011

A principal - perhaps not. A Superintendent, on the other hand, has an entirely different agenda.

[TeeSC]

06:03 PM on 03/02/2011

That is exactly right.  And anyone who thinks the superintendent isn't going to do just that is naive. 

[homer9]

06:49 PM on 03/02/2011

Now the budget is in the hands of the principal, so they have plenty of reason to favor younger teachers. And to think, so many of these people trained by Bloomberg's 'principal's Academy(young, inexperienced, brainwashed) are the ones making the decision , wow! Money buys everything.BTW Diane Ravitch will be on the Daily Show on Thursday and she has much more intelligence/insight re the teaching profession than Klein every could hope to have.

[mibwilso]

03:31 PM on 03/02/2011

The teaching profession struggles to recruit and retain new talent as it is.

Why continue with a policy that kicks the newest teachers to the curb??

[changing]

07:16 PM on 03/02/2011

Why would anyone be recruiting new talent? We have plenty of "old" talent. Schools are laying off like crazy. Discriminating against older by the way is illegal. Educators know it takes a few years to even get your feet on the ground. Ridiculous-the more experienced teachers as a group always are better than the new teachers. There is no objective way to evaluate teachers by rank. If you want to cause chaos and harm to everyone that includes the children you use as a wedge issue start firing everyone on this "performance" baloney. Longevity and loyalty has benefits. It should be rewarded. Teachers by the way are parents, taxpayers, and human beings. How disgusting you disregard the intense suffering caused by job loss to their families and the communities they live in.

[lcr999]

12:13 AM on 03/03/2011

Not disregarding the pain of layoffs, just trying to distribute it equitably. Evaluation of professionals is done all the time---engineers, computer programmers, accountants, nurses. It can and must be done. It is not age discrimination, it is based on performance.

[mibwilso]

09:01 AM on 03/03/2011

You recruit new talent because the "old" talent is starting to retire.

[mibwilso]

03:29 PM on 03/02/2011

The policy should be "Worst in, First Out" Period.

Good teaching is not unique to any age group...and neither is bad teaching.

[TeeSC]

06:04 PM on 03/02/2011

100% agreed. 

[brooklyncitizen]

07:03 PM on 03/02/2011

It isn't a matter of unique it is a matter of experience.Teaching in our schools is a lesson in and of itself.

[mibwilso]

09:01 AM on 03/03/2011

Of course it is....but it depends on what lessons you learn from the experience. Some get better...others get lazy.