Diane Ravitch On The Daily Show Talks Teacher Bashing, Education Reform

Historian and author Diane Ravitch joined Jon Stewart on "The Daily Show" Thursday to discuss education reform.

In between Stewart's comical quips, he took time to acknowledge one of his favorite teachers: his mother.

Ravitch tackled topics such as why Finland is leading the world in education and why she feels American education reform is on the wrong track. According to Ravitch, the preoccupation with standardized testing and teacher bashing won't remedy the education crisis when poverty and racial inequality continue to plague schools.

WATCH:

Comments

[goofy2]

10:16 PM on 03/25/2011

Even persons with some expertise in the field often address problems in education as "blind men and the elephant." There is a need for nuanced, collaborative, wide-ranging approaches rather than one-shot answers, self-interested solutions and shouting matches. Nation-wide we are over-testing and over-reliant on testing, but without careful examination and application of effective uses of testing. I find an amazing lack of understanding of the array of tests and their best uses among educators - little perspective, much narrow doctrine. My characterization is that we are mandating that teachers watch the scoreboard (test results) so much that their eye is off the ball (improved instruction). Curricula dictated by test content (or standards) has led many astray. People who say all poor children can do well because some poor children do well don't know much about the dynamics and variety in poor families. People who assume that all poor children will underperform need to become acquainted with some poor families who are poor economically, but well-resourced in core values and family skills. One answer seldom solves a difficult, complicated problem.

[Gem Mayers]

09:55 PM on 03/11/2011

I sometimes agree with Ravitch, other times not. Her book..I think it is titled, "Language Police"...? was an eye opener of the white-washing of language in textbooks and tests...no wonder kids hate school and learn little!
Our schools are testing factories on purpose. It originates from the Prussian education system that America adopted. My blog is beginning to outline such things http://3rseduc.blogspot.com/
Prussian education, and eugenics both seek to marginalize, label, determine one's education and life based on a standardized test. Our own tests dictate such things through NCLB funding, labeling ("at risk", "GATE" "proficient") and posting of AYP/API scores in the media. Sickening.

[FarOutFish]

05:20 PM on 03/11/2011

Given the educational standing of our High School graduates we certainly don't have education factories.

[Kevin Curtis]

01:20 AM on 03/24/2011

Oh, they're factories all right. Factories to get students to pass the standardized tests.

And I agree with the principle that teachers should not be blamed for poor performance of students. Education has three major participants. The Student, The Parent(s), and The Teacher.

If the student is mired in laziness, apathy or legitimate issues at home (ie, hunger, violence, etc.) it greatly reduces their willingness or ability to learn.

The role of the parent(s) is to give the apathetic or lazy ones a quick reality check when it comes to the real world, prevent the legitimate home issues to the best of their ability, and be actively involved in the education of their children (mentoring, making sure homework gets done, etc.)

The role of the teacher is to instruct the student and communicate with parents any potential issues or areas needing improvement. It may seem like I'm cutting the teacher some slack, but keep in mind they have to do this for a lot more children than the parents.

[Kaneisha Grayson]

07:06 PM on 03/09/2011

Diane Ravitch is great, but we need a true spokesperson to answer the Michell Rhee's of the world in support of teachers. Please see my blog post on the subject at "The Daily Garriga" and let me know what you think.

http://thedailygarriga.com/2011/03/in-search-of-a-charismatic-leader/

[bbbbmer]

03:55 AM on 03/09/2011

Diane Ravitch is a great American.

Michelle Rhee is..... not.

[bzig]

10:19 AM on 03/08/2011

Make your voices be heard with votes. So far it's still a democracy but all this cram it down your throat comservatism is getting bad. America hasn't had a get out on the streets wake up call since the 60's. Karl Rove and the Koch Brothers master plan is to destroy the democratic party and RULE not govern.
They want Patriarchal control and women will be told what to do.

[LISUPT]

08:33 PM on 03/07/2011

Ravitch - I swear she must be on the AFT payroll. Very cozy with Weingarten and her allies. Since her days in the Bush administration her views have changed 180 degrees. Some people will do anything to sell books.

[AC Guts]

11:49 AM on 03/08/2011

Why on earth would any of that put her on the ATF payroll of all agencies?

[LISUPT]

05:44 PM on 03/08/2011

Her ideology is now aligned with the AFT. All the things she is currently against she supported when in washington. Charter schools, merit pay, standardized testing, NCLB were agenda items once supported by her. She has done a 180 on those items and her agenda today looks like the AFT.

[Ocean22]

10:20 PM on 03/11/2011

It is true that she has changed her position on NCLB and some other issues. She does not deny this, but rather Ravitch is clear that when the evidence proved her assumptions wrong, she chose to change her position. What's so wrong with that? I find it refreshing that a person would be willing to carefully and honestly examine the evidence, and be willing to change their mind if such evidence runs contrary to what they once believed to be true. And honestly- to sell books? There are easier ways to make a buck than doing the kind of painstaking, meticulous research that goes into writing what she writes. And maybe the forty years of education research under her belt kind of makes her a reliable sourece of information on the topic.

[LISUPT]

10:12 AM on 03/12/2011

Believe me - read her latest book. It doesn't look like that she did any of that "painstaking, meticulous research" as you suggest. She draws conclusions from limited research to support her new ideology.

[Kimballlcorson]

04:25 AM on 03/07/2011

In a nutshell, the truth about teachers unions is --

We decided in America many years ago to establish public school systems and boards usually for each county and thereby put most most private schools in those counties out of business except for a few where the parents are willing to double pay (taxes for public schools and tuition for private schools).

Competition was thereby destroyed in those counties and those county school boards thereby got a virtual monopoly on setting teachers salaries in those counties. They set them too low, no surprise.

Teachers then organized unions with strike authority and developed countervailing market pricing power, setting wages this time about 15% too high, relative to what wages would have been with just a competitive private school system in the county. Competition has been be eliminated, especially in teachers salaries where poor teachers are paid too much and the good one the same salaries, but too little.

If we wanted to restore competition in these counties, a voucher system could readily do it. However, not surprisingly, teachers think that is a bad idea. Too, public schools are worried that they could not compete. However, it is private schools which have really had that worry, operating at distinct disadvantages now for many years.

These are the real and controlling economic issues. The rest is largely just talk.

[Kimballlcorson]

05:38 AM on 03/07/2011

I should add that teachers' unions have also reduced the number of treachers employed and therefore the amount of teaching being done and also have increase class sizes as a consequence of raising wages above competitive levels.

[cstandri]

06:31 PM on 03/07/2011

Just think, if we could get teachers salaries down to a really, really low point, we'd have TONS of teachers for every student!!

[taxi648]

11:41 PM on 03/10/2011

I have taught for 38 years. I have a Bachlor degree in special education and Masters in early childhood education, plus so many more credits I should have gone for my doctorate. I presently make 70,000 a year with 30 students. I leave my home at 7:45 and return home at 4:45 and then have paperwork to do and prepare for the next day. Oh did I mention I teach year round? Collective bargaining got us out of closets with no windows, air conditioned classrooms during the summer months, latex gloves to clean up vomit and blood, hand sanatizer, and the list goes on. I pay 7.5% of my salary to retirement, and I have ALWAYS paid a portion of my helthcare. My son graduated from college in 2007 and his first job paid 42,000 a year, he know makes 55,000 in the private sector. I am really happy for him, but am I really overpaid?

[Spartan112]

10:35 AM on 03/10/2011

Vouchers will not provide enough money to allow students to go to the best private schools thus creating an even bigger gap in education between the haves and have nots. The answer is to spend crazy amounts of money on ALL our schools and make them palaces to knowledge and learning.

[Kimballlcorson]

03:20 AM on 03/07/2011

Of the world's top 100 universities, over 80% are American public and private universities where competition for faculty, students and tuition dollars is very strong and free markets work well without unnecessary restraints or restrictions. On the other hand, American high schools, which are largely devoid of any economic competition, perform at a level that puts us at the bottom of the advanced nations. Moreover, our university system excels in spite of this handicapping high school system, not because of it. Bottom line: good economic competition and free markets are needed for K though 12. Yet NEA and other teacher associations and unions are unwilling to give an unrestrained voucher system even a try. What incentive for good performance is there in our unionized public schools where bad and good teachers are compensated alike for time in grade and hours toward a bogus MA?

[Pavane]

02:00 PM on 03/06/2011

It seems to me that conservatives don't want the populace to be educated. They can insure ignorance (and the resulting low wages) by attacking the teachers.

[am10]

09:21 PM on 03/06/2011

Don't blame one side. Conservatives normally favor vouchers or homeschooling. They are being quiet, while democrats fall for this charter school crap.

[oktober]

12:02 AM on 03/07/2011

Favor homeschooling. Seems right, because they're killing teachers jobs...so push it onto parents.

Vouchers, for private schools. Taking kids from a great public environment, by placing a reduced cost on private schools by taking money out of the public sector isn't exactly helping the situation. However, very conservative.

http://southbrunswick.patch.com/articles/organizing-to-save-the-schools-2

[Pavane]

01:21 AM on 03/07/2011

Unfortunately, the only attacking I see done is by Conservatives. They attack Obama. They attack women. They attack gays. They attack teachers and public education. They attack the unions. They attack the poor and the homeless and the jobless.

I am at the point where I think very little of Conservatives in general.

[taxi648]

11:51 PM on 03/10/2011

And send their children to private schools.

[saintjule]

12:07 PM on 03/06/2011

And the billionaires, Billy Gates, who spout dilettantes solutions are not helping either.

[changing]

08:31 PM on 03/06/2011

Obama, Bush, Duncan all of them want us to be competitive not educated. Also want to turn the public schools over for profit and bring in cheap labor to replace experienced teachers.

[gilbskg]

11:57 AM on 03/06/2011

It is not possible to "lift up" education in America while simultaneously tearing down and vilifying those who do the job.

Why would children, who are amazingly observant, respect the idea of education, the process of learning, and their teachers in this environment of blame and shame?

[belias2]

05:25 AM on 03/06/2011

Jon's fertile mind and quick wit explained, his mother was a teacher!

[Jill Iger]

05:18 AM on 03/06/2011

 
Hallelujah Jon and Diane! Here's a novel idea for all the teacher blamers out there:  Why not try to come up with a solution to help our failing students?  If people spent more of their time and energy focusing on volunteering in low-income areas, where you see the majority of low test scores, they would positively affect the community and their lives.  I am sick and tired of seeing nothing but negative press and blame in the world while nothing is being done to REMEDY the situation. 
 
I am all for teachers being held accountable for their teaching; however, to be judged by the success of a student on ONE TEST that is entirely subjective and does not show the progress that the student has made the entire year with that teacher is not a true reflection of the teacher nor the student.  Sometimes, for a variety of reasons, no matter what you do to help as teacher, there are students that do not succeed. If you are going to label teachers as incompetent, please do so by using a better means of analysis than a standardized test score. 
 

[gilbskg]

11:48 AM on 03/06/2011

"to be judged by the success of a student on ONE TEST that is entirely subjective and does not show the progress that the student has made the entire year with that teacher is not a true reflection of the teacher nor the student"

This teacher thanks you.

[Katniss]

06:33 PM on 03/07/2011

Jill, I want to thank you for the following comment: "Why not try to come up with a solution to help our failing students? If people ­spent more of their time and energy focusing on volunteeri­ng in low-income areas, where you see th­e majority of low test scores, they would positively affect the community and their lives. I am sick and tired of seeing nothing but negative press and blame in the world while nothing is being done to REMEDY the situation."

You're so right. I would never bash a teacher, but I feel frustrated at a system that seems set up for failure­, that in my city has a low a graduation rate and leaves my region with a 30% illiteracy rate among adults. But besides bitch on the internet, what do I do about it? The answer used to be nothing. But your comment spurred me to get off my butt. I filled out a form to volunteer with a conosrtium called Read to Succeed Buffalo that works on kindergarten readiness. I'm really looking forward to hearing from them, and I'm glad I took that first step. I already feel like a foot soldier on the right side of the war to provide a good education for everyone.

[Jill Iger]

04:02 AM on 03/08/2011

Dear Katniss,

You are amazing! You made my day by your decision to volunteer. This is exactly what we need to do to help these kids that don't have the resources nor the parental support at home to succeed. This will be a life-changing event for both you and the students you will help.

I have taught, by choice, at-risk students in low-income neighborhoods for over 15 years in public schools. Let me tell you something very important: not once have I had anyone from the community ask to come volunteer in my classroom other than an occasional personal friend, family member, parent, or someone that was directly asked to volunteer by our school.  I do everything I can humanly do to help my students succeed including: working with my struggling students before school, during my 20 minute recess break , during my 45 minute lunch break and after school. I even have workshops to teach their parents reading and homework strategies to help them at home. This is, of course, without pay.  I am not a rarity.  This is a common thing most teachers do in low-performing schools.  I can't tell you how many times teachers blame themselves for their students’ inability to succeed even after exhausting their own personal resources to try to help them. 

If we had more people like you, we could really make a difference. Thank you for caring enough to take action.

[taxi648]

11:55 PM on 03/10/2011

March on! Education needs people like you.