Amish Required To Have Photo On FOID Card To Own Guns, Violating Religious Edict

A change in state police policy could create problems for Amish gun-owners in Illinois, as a rule requiring photos to be on gun-owner ID cards will soon be applied to their community.

As the blog Amish America writes Monday, many Amish people use guns to hunt deer and other game, and to disperse "varmints."

The Amish are also known for being uncomfortable with photography, especially posed photography, which they believe leads to idolatrous vanity, according to AmishNews.com. So now-departed Illinois State Police director Jonathan Monken's decision requiring the Amish to have a photo on their new Firearm Owner Identification (FOID) cards could put Amish hunters in a bind.

"A lot of the Amish hunt and they usually use squirrel or rabbit rifles to bring some food back home," Douglas County Sheriff Charles McGrew told the Mattoon Journal-Gazette. Douglas County is the center of Illinois's Amish population. "Their big concern is this means they won't be able to purchase guns or ammo."

Leaders of the community met with their state legislators to work on negotiating a compromise that would allow Amish people to receive non-photo IDs. Pennsylvania and Ohio, the two states with the largest Amish populations in the country, both allow for such an exception on state documents when religious beliefs forbid a person from having his or her photo taken.

One source of frustration among the Amish community and its lawmakers: Monken handed down the decision about the FOID cards on his last day as director of the State Police.

"It was unfair for him to do this on the same day he was leaving," state Rep. Chapin Rose, a Republican from Mahomet, Illinois, told the Journal-Gazette reports.

Both parties involved are hopeful that a solution can be brokered with interim director Patrick Keen.

Comments

[Palomino42]

06:30 PM on 03/15/2011

Purchasing a gun is a privilege rather than a right, and ensuring public safety justifies prohibiting religious exemptions. It is the choice of their culture to not have a photo ID.
This isn't about religion. I doubt the ATF cares particularly about religion. American citizens are all bound, to an extent, by laws, even if some don't agree with them.

Q. What types of identification do I need to purchase a firearm?
A. Dealers may accept any one of the following documents as identification:
• Valid-current photo drivers license or ID card.
• Valid government-issued photo identification car.
Because Pennsylvania is a point of contact (POC) for the National Instant Check System (NICS), operational November 30, 1998, we agree to do the federal firearms background check (Brady check) which requires a photo identification card. Even though the Pennsylvania law provides for non-photo ID, for members of religious sects whose tenets forbid or discourage the taking of photographs, it is now required that a photo ID be provided.
http://www.northumberlandsheriff.com/assets/pdfs/firearm_brochure.pdf

[cajuncrazy]

03:28 PM on 03/17/2011

Actually, according to the constitution (yeah, that old thing), it is a right.

[Palomino42]

08:41 PM on 03/17/2011

The purpose of my posts was to clarify Pennsylvania's current gun ID law---that at least one given link in the article is obsolete---but regarding the Constitution:

What The Second Amendment Really Says
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."--The Second Amendment

"The Second Amendment has been the subject of one of the greatest piece of fraud, I repeat the word, 'fraud', on the American public. The distortion of the intent of the framers of the Bill of Rights by the gun lobby is glaring, as they focus their argument on the last half of the amendment, while ignoring the first half, on which it was based".--Former Supreme Court Chief Justice Warren E. Burger (1991) http://www.sbcoalition.org/second_amendment.html

It is often useful to not only try to interpret what the words of a part of the Constitution mean today, but also to see what they meant in the past.

[Palomino42]

06:27 PM on 03/15/2011

3. When completed, the entire application must be returned IN PERSON BY THE APPLICANT to the above location, Monday through Friday, 8:30 AM to 2:00 PM. (New applications and renewals will only be handled during this time.)
Also needed at this time of RENEWAL OR NEW APPLICATION:
a. One (1) 2” x 2 ” (inch) Passport Type color photo of the applicant’s head and shoulders, (NO
SUNGLASSES, HATS, VEILS, BANDANNAS, ETC.).
http://www.phillypolice.com/assets/docs/PPD-Form.Firearm-License-Application.pdf

[Palomino42]

06:26 PM on 03/15/2011

It has been ATF's longstanding position that licensees may accept a combination of documents to establish the identity of a firearm purchaser. ATF Rul. 79-7, ATFQB 79-1, 26, interpreted a licensee's obligation to obtain satisfactory identification from a purchaser in the manner customarily used in commercial transactions, pursuant to the existing regulations under the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA). The ruling held that satisfactory identification of a firearms purchaser must include the purchaser's name, age or date of birth, place of residence, and signature. The ruling also held that while a particular document may not be sufficient to meet the statutory requirement for identifying the purchaser, any combination of documents that together disclosed the required information would be acceptable.
ATF Rul. 79-7 has been superseded by an amendment to the GCA. The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Brady Act), which took effect in 1994, mandated the use of photo identification documents for transfers subject to the Act. Under the permanent provisions of the Brady Act, which went into effect on November 30, 1998, a licensed importer, manufacturer, or dealer is generally required to initiate a background check through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) prior to transferring a firearm to an unlicensed individual.

[Palomino42]

06:25 PM on 03/15/2011

The Brady Act requires a licensee to identify the nonlicensed transferee by examining a valid government-issued identification document that contains the photograph of the holder. See 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(1)(C). This requirement applies to all over-the-counter transfers, even where the transferee holds a permit that qualifies as an exception to the requirement for a NICS check at the time of transfer. 27 CFR 178.124(c)(3)(i).

[Palomino42]

06:25 PM on 03/15/2011

18 U.S.C. 922(t)(1)(C): IDENTIFICATION OF TRANSFEREE
27 CFR 178.124: FIREARMS TRANSACTION RECORD
Licensees may accept a combination of valid government-issued documents to satisfy the identification document requirements of the Brady Act. The required valid government-issued photo identification document bearing the name, photograph, and date of birth of the transferee may be supplemented by another valid, government-issued document showing the transferee's residence address. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located, and may satisfy the identification document requirement by presenting his or her military identification card along with official orders showing that his or her permanent duty station is within the State where the licensed premises are located.
http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2001-5.html

[too young but old enough]

04:20 PM on 03/15/2011

If they make special laws to allow the Amish to take care of these requirements without a photo, will they also make special laws to allow any Rastafarians to smoke pot? Once they start catering to a specific religion, don't they have a responsibility to cater to the special needs of all religions of the citizenry...Isn't that part of the whole 'freedom of religion' thing? I have nothing against Amish (or Rastafarians), but making special laws for just one group amounts to institutionalized prejudice.

[1866Umidget]

09:51 AM on 03/15/2011

requiring photo ID of the amish is almost as bad as calling http://dwarftalent.com "little people," midgets!

[milfytime]

08:35 AM on 03/15/2011

Okay, Amish people, we get that you're different and are much more holy and pious than all of us self worshiping heathens, but please put your silly idealistic out of date rules aside for just a moment and play along with the rest of us. Were any religious rules broken to start the Amish America blog? How does the blogger avoid all the evil advertisements? How does he stop himself from browsing the web just for a second?

Idealism correlates perfectly with hypocrisy.

[mwelby]

08:00 AM on 03/15/2011

I am curious... has there ever been a documented instance of a photo ID/ license card being worshiped?

[European1919]

10:08 AM on 03/30/2011

I foresee this happening in about 2k years.

[Packattack]

07:54 AM on 03/15/2011

Just means they will be more like many Americans now and not register.

[FlangeSqueal]

09:33 AM on 03/15/2011

Precisely.

(clop) (clop) (clop) (Amish bank robber making his getaway)

[GravitonX]

07:47 AM on 03/15/2011

Whatever compromises they make for the Amish would need to be applied to Muslims and other groups as well.

[pissdoffinohio]

07:45 AM on 03/15/2011

Im from illinois, moved to ohio and i was shockd when i calld the police for help in registring my gun only to be told there is no form of registration here.
What?!
I thnk the FOID cards need to be a templat fr the rest of the states. And yeh, sorry but that meens every gun.
Relax spelling polise. Its med and autocorect fails awsomly bad. Jus googl it for some laffs

[CelticMajic]

08:28 AM on 03/15/2011

A FOID is not a registration of firearms. It is a Firearm Owners Identification Card not a Fire Arms Registration Card. There are some that have a FOID that do not own a gun (obtained in case they had need to transport a weapon w/in IL). Finally, I believe IL is the only state that has such a system that many believe to be unconstitutional and will at some point be tested in court.

[FlangeSqueal]

09:34 AM on 03/15/2011

What a mook.

[Hillbilly49]

07:19 AM on 03/15/2011

The Amish are a quaint cult but if they want to own guns they need to get their little photo ID.

[bryan broome]

07:33 AM on 03/15/2011

You need to look up the word quaint.

[Hillbilly49]

07:35 AM on 03/15/2011

If you knew what it meant; you wouldn't have made that comment.

[WarriorLemming]

08:03 AM on 03/15/2011

I believe there was disdain and sarcasm in the fine print of Hillbilly's comment.....and I agree. Having been raised in a Mennonite home I know that the Amish will find a way to bend a rule or two so that they can continue to use firearms. Save your tears for those who have no recourse--the Amish will do just fine I assure you.

[DL3]

06:59 AM on 03/15/2011

If you don't like it go to the store and buy some groceries. Laws sometimes suck, we are in America.

[tagtron]

07:34 AM on 03/15/2011

Tell that to the 2% Ultra Rich who don't want to pay any taxes

[Jason McDonald]

06:57 AM on 03/15/2011

Hey Amish. Welcome to the 21st Century!

[bryan broome]

07:19 AM on 03/15/2011

The 21st century is so wonderful aint it?

[Marq72]

07:33 AM on 03/15/2011

If you're female, black, or gay, then yes the 21st century is better than most of the 20th century.

[shp]

07:30 AM on 03/15/2011

Yea, progress is great!

Just check out Japan for a fine example of what happens when human hubris takes on mother nature.

I'll betcha they'll trade all the 21st century conveniences for a place to live and some food.

[milfytime]

08:19 AM on 03/15/2011

Wait, so are you implying that progress is not great?

We have to make dumb choices to learn from them. Nuclear power is a thing we are trying out, but I think now we see its flaw and it will only push for greener energy. And besides, we exist, what else can we do but progress?

[Jason McDonald]

10:07 AM on 03/15/2011

Human Hubris created an Earth Quake?

How old are you? 4?