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Scarborough Hits Liberals For Hypocrisy On Libya

Joe Scarborough

First Posted: 03/29/11 02:27 PM ET Updated: 05/29/11 06:12 AM ET

In his opinion piece at Politico today, Joe Scarborough asks, "How can liberals call for Qadhafi's ouster when they opposed the war against Saddam?"

It's a good question! And it would have helped if Scarborough had, you know, identified some liberals who were taking that stance, so they could be asked that. You know, like, maybe a link, or something? So I could see such hypocrisy in action? This is apparently too much to ask.

But, okay! Scarborough says that "for a decade," President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney were compared to Hitler and Stalin, "condemned as an immoral beast who killed women and children to get his bloody hands on Iraqi oil," by anti-war activists and CODE PINK, etc. "But," Scarborough says, "in the morally murky afterglow of the Obama years, the certainty of these secular saints has melted away."

Only I'm not sure a lot of this is true.

President Barack Obama bowed to his generals' demands by tripling troops in an unending war. CODEPINK did nothing.

Not true! CODE PINK wants a ceasefire in Libya. The head of the organization, Medea Benjamin, has repeatedly called for an end to our involvement in Libya. She's been on the teevee. She had a press conference at the White House last week. CODE PINK has highlighted the efforts of women in the Middle East working to bring about peace in the region.

Here's what they have to say about escalating in Afghanistan: "CODEPINK Stands Firm Against Military Escalation in Afghanistan." So, let's absolve CODE PINK right now of this "doing nothing" charge.

Obama backed down on Guantanamo Bay. Anti-war protesters stayed at home.

You know, unless you count the protests over Guantanamo Bay that are constantly happening. Just last week, in fact, "A 31-year-old Des Moines woman protesting conditions at the Guantanamo Bay detention facility in Cuba reported being assaulted Sunday while taking part in an anti-torture vigil at the corner of Valley West Drive and University Avenue in West Des Moines."

America invaded its third Muslim country in a decade. The American left meekly went along.

Actually, on March 19, 2011, I was actually standing in front of the White House in Washington, DC, and, lo, what did I see? Anti-war protesters, not meekly going along. Daniel Ellsberg was arrested, actually, that afternoon, while participating in those protests. Here's a relevant Associated Press report from that day:

More than 100 anti-war protesters, including the man who leaked the Pentagon Papers, were arrested outside the White House in demonstrations marking the eighth anniversary of the U.S.-led war in Iraq.

The protesters, some shouting anti-war slogans and singing "We Shall Not Be Moved," were arrested Saturday after ignoring orders to move away from the gates of the White House. The demonstrators cheered loudly as Daniel Ellsberg, the former military analyst who in 1971 leaked the Pentagon's secret history of the Vietnam War that was later published in major newspapers, was arrested and led away by police.

In New York City, about 80 protesters gathered near the U.S. military recruiting center in Times Square, chanting "No to war" and carrying banners that read, "I am not paying for war" and "Butter not guns."

Similar protests marking the start of the Iraq war also were organized Saturday in San Francisco, Chicago and other cities.

In California, hundreds of people marched in downtown San Francisco. Hundreds more, including students from more than 40 high schools and community colleges, marched in Los Angeles in protest of the U.S. presence in Iraq, organizers and police said.

Some used the rallies to draw attention to the new military action in Libya.

"You can't stand by and watch people being slaughtered. At the same time you don't want to foster war. It's walking a very fine line," Bishop Otis Charles told KCBS-TV at the San Francisco protest.

So, going forward, we can count many liberals as having not "melted away" just because Obama is in the White House.

The very first name of a liberal that Scarborough provides is Katrina vanden Heuvel, of whom Scarborough writes:

Katrina vanden Heuvel, one of the few liberals to take a principled stand against what America is doing in Libya, has written in The Nation that the anti-war left has been silent since Obama took office because they don't want to hurt the president's reelection chances.

Yes, they've been utterly silent if you discount people like Robert Greenwald, or MoveOn.org, or any of the examples I've cited above.

Eventually, Scarborough gets around to fingering a worthy culprit:

Democrats streamed to the floors of the House and Senate to praise the president for invading Libya. It was, after all, a moral mission that would stop the slaughter of innocent civilians. Whether protesting for peace or calling for war, these liberals once again convinced themselves of the moral superiority of their positions.

BREAKING! Many Democratic lawmakers are feckless! You may have noticed this already, seeing as how after they campaigned to be elected in 2006 on a platform of ending the Iraq War, they didn't actually do anything to end the Iraq War.

So, yes, a lot of people who are now praising Obama for going into Libya withheld their praise for Bush's endeavors in Iraq, but they still nevertheless tacitly supported those endeavors with their actions (see Chapter Six, The Great Derangement, by Matt Taibbi).

Let me be clear: I am nothing if not entirely willing to concede this point to Scarborough. I think, though, that it's more than possible to discern a distinction between Democratic Party lawmakers and all liberals. If you want to level this charge against lawmakers, knock yourself out. But leave the rest of the "liberal" movement out of it, especially if you can't actually make the case.

Now, I like to be helpful, and as it turns out, I was able to find an example of the liberal that Scarborough suggests is widespread, someone who is "unabashedly cheering the liberation movement" in Libya while maintaining that "Libya 2011 is not like Iraq 2003 in any way." I can also embed a link on the Internet to this specific example. Just watch!

That person is Juan Cole, and he explains his reasoning, in a thoughtful manner, in his "Open Letter to the Left On Libya." The tone of Cole's piece seems to be at odds with Scarborough's experience in that it suggests that there is actually insufficient fervor for the Libyan intervention on the left. And in his response to Cole on these pages, Robert Naiman seems pretty confident that he is speaking for the majority of liberals when he says that "There doesn't appear to be any plausible way right now to try to completely undo the fact that the Obama Administration has made this power grab for the war-making power of the Executive Branch, which goes beyond anything that the last Bush Administration did on war powers."

So I don't know what liberals Scarborough is referring to, but whoever they are, they should stay away from open flames. Because straw ignites rather quickly.

UPDATE: I figured I'd be a further help here and provide another name and another link if Joe or anyone else wants to take another stab at this argument: Tom Matzzie, who on these pages writes that he is "Anti-War, But Supporting Obama on Libya." Please note that Matzzie nevertheless avers that he is "deeply concerned about the path the president is choosing," and admits that there "is a strong anti-war case for staying out of Libya," so it's not clear if this is actually useful in arguing that the entire left has hypocritically switched poles on the issue of war. (Matzzie is also clearly treating his position as the minority one, within the leftist, anti-war community, who he still insists have "important roles" to play.)

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In his opinion piece at Politico today, Joe Scarborough asks, "How can liberals call for Qadhafi's ouster when they opposed the war against Saddam?" It's a good question! And it would have helped...
In his opinion piece at Politico today, Joe Scarborough asks, "How can liberals call for Qadhafi's ouster when they opposed the war against Saddam?" It's a good question! And it would have helped...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Genius
Nothing is more dangerous than sincere ignorance
05:39 AM on 04/10/2011
Joe Scarborough is so self absorbed, the picture above is a perfect portrait of how he would like to be perceived. I wouldn't give him the time of day on a night out on the town, and there is no way he could charm me with his BS.
01:05 PM on 04/01/2011
This is just the typical hypocrisy that anyone faces when dealing with a dictator. When America dose nothing than its criticized for not upholding its principles. Yet when we do act than we are called aggressors. I found this article and the author makes a very valid point regarding how people react to such an issue.

http://www.examiner.com/independent-in-san-jose/the-catch-22-of-global-responsibility
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NJProgressiveIndie
Never Surrender...
01:10 PM on 03/31/2011
Democrats and the left supported the war in Iraq until it became obvious the war was started on false pretenses--that Sadaam had NOTHING to do with 9/11 and there were no WMDs.

As for Libya, had Scarborough bothered to check first, he would have found that even from the onset the left did not unilaterally support the President's actions in Libya. Then there was that spirited debate between Ed Shultz and Jeremy Scahill last night. And I'm sure I don't have to bring up all the other issues where the left doesn't see eye-to-eye on with the President, no matter what else they do support him on.

Now here's one for Morning Joe and the right. When your team was in power, you did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the atrocities in all of those other Middle East and African nations that had been going on long before Obama took office. WHY?

I think Joe Scarborough is trying to atone for that transgression he made on the Chris Matthews show concerning President Obama. Re-establishing your Republican street cred is fine by me, Joe. Just don't try to do it on the backs of Liberals, Democrats and Progressives with an uninformed cheap shot like the one in your commentary.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
cschoenen
"Evil conquers when good men do nothing"
09:46 AM on 04/01/2011
Just curious if you ever watched the speech Bush gave to the U.N. just before resolution 1441 was passed by a rare unanimous vote? Bush pointed out 5 reasons why we should invade Iraq. One being Human rights violations, and the fact that he'd already broke 8 out of the 14 resolutions after the 1991 invasion...it was obvious that Saddam knew the U.N. had no back-bone and would do nothing while he broke them time and time again.
THe WMD's was just one reason and because Bush's intell got that wrong it was all of a sudden just cause to just tuck tail and get out? Yet our soldiers were finding mass grave sites THOUSANDS murdered by Saddams regime....this became a FACT....not reason enough at that point?
Why didn't the Drive-by media report of Saddams still trying to slaughter the Kurds....all leading up to the War over 200,000 Kurd refugees fled to Iran.....Iraq soldiers hot on their heels killing them....read "Iraq: from Sumer to Saddam" Pg. 36-42...specifically talks about this and the U.N. claiming they had a handle on it to the U.S.....Bush frustrated with reports that Piles of dead bodies were being found fleeing the Kurdish territory....
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
cschoenen
"Evil conquers when good men do nothing"
10:01 AM on 04/01/2011
During Bush Presidency:
Sudan: U.N. (with U.S. troops) attempt to stop the genocide...they claim it wasn't happening...but we knew otherwise....shame on the world
Congo: We actually did intervene and at this point in time have soldiers training there soldiers
Rwanda:We sent in about 1000 troops....U.N. again claims no genocide.....but we knew otherwise...shame on the world.
Ethiopia: Military advisors sent in by U.S. No support by the U.N. shame on them....

One thing I see.....U.N.= USELESS......Hoping that the U.N. is changing that trend with Libya and will continue to grow a backbone.....
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NJProgressiveIndie
Never Surrender...
11:41 PM on 04/01/2011
The argument was made about why no intervention in Egypt, Syria etc. as opposed to Libya, in spite of the atrocities there. I was making the case--contrary to what Joe Scarborough claimed--was that there has always been opposition among the left to any U.S. military involvement in the region, and that the opposition was not selective. Also that Republicans, who are usually fired-up for any intervention did a complete about-face on Libya simply because it was Obama who did it, rather than another president.

My own personal feeling, is that while I'm not particularly happy about the turn of events in Libya, I understand why the President did what he did. People just assume that had some other leader of a the Middle Eastern country had threatened its people with wholesale annihilation simply because they wanted democracy, that President Obama would not have responded in a similar matter. But the world is full of blood thirsty tyrants, and it just isn't possible economically or militarily for the U.S. to deal with all or even most of them as the "lone policeman of the world" anymore.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Genius
Nothing is more dangerous than sincere ignorance
06:28 AM on 03/31/2011
I'm just glad that VH1 actually plays music videos at some point of the day. I can barely tolerate to listen to any of the daytime programming on the daytime lineup.
Cee Lo Green says it best, Forget You.
And would you please get rid of that drum roll lead in music?
11:40 PM on 03/30/2011
I don't know. I see the author's point that most real liberal and anti-war organizations have stood firmly against Libya, but Scarborough is right about the hypocrisy of Democratic leadership and many liberals who support Libya while denouncing Bush for Iraq.

Wow. I guess it kind of makes sense...now that War=Peace, Dems=always for war while republicans try to speak out against it - and I just agreed with Joe Scarborough on something. Wow.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Golemaximus
10:34 PM on 03/30/2011
Jason Linkins article is just another Liberal diatribe of crap. His propensity for spin and distortion is well known and HP only uses his articles because he writes them to fire up the Liberal base. Joe S. is only marginally smarter than Joe Biden. He is one of those commentators that I can only listen to after hearing a report from someone like Keith Obermann. All these political commentators are equally obvious and obnoxious. Hypocrisy is a way of life for most all our politicians. We are only fooled by the spin machines that attempt to justify some really obvious hypocrisy. George Bush must be smiling from ear to ear!
wendy scott
never believe generalizations
04:10 AM on 04/02/2011
GM, I just wanted to say Hi and tell you I was thinkling about you with all the awful news in your neck of the woods. Stay safe. I'm sending you a prayer and a {{{{ hug }}}} Wendy
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Golemaximus
04:23 AM on 04/02/2011
Wendy - Thank you! You're very sweet to send such a kind note. I'm fine! The most recent attack was 3 miles away. I'm leaving here this month and headed home to Columbia, SC. I still can't believe this war for all it's corruption and needless loss of life. I wish I could take all our troops with me. This place is a complete waste under the present government. It's very sad!
bonatay
It will be hard. Be bold. Be courageous.
10:14 PM on 03/30/2011
I saw the Ed show tonight. It became obvious who the liberals Joe was referring to.
bonatay
It will be hard. Be bold. Be courageous.
09:34 PM on 03/30/2011
Scarborough does this all the time, generalize the liberals. I would like to know who they are. I believe he looks at nutty blogs that disagree with his position. I don't find any reputable news organization reporting liberals are out in force promoting the Presidents actions.

I can only watch morning Joe when Joe is not there. Love Mike and Willie. As a woman, I cannot stand the way Mika lets Joe be so condescending to her
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
cschoenen
"Evil conquers when good men do nothing"
09:06 AM on 03/31/2011
and liberals don't "generalize".....huh can you tell me what are "teabaggers", "Beckzombies", "Faux watchers"...just to name a few......usually the first words that come out of liberals mouths if a conservative dares to speak on the huffintonleftwing post.
And usually those people that make a "pun" have no point just ridicule and insult....
And your probably right or wrong....last poll that was taken 68% of Democrats supported Obamas decision to help in Libya.....the blog part....well he could have come on here to see the overwhelming amount of liberals who try to justify Libya cause as "humanitarian" and the Iraq war was not at all.....IMO
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NJProgressiveIndie
Never Surrender...
11:49 PM on 04/01/2011
The only "conservatives" who get push-back here are the Tea Party and the radical right types who have made the mistake that they are entitled to make people who don't share their views ideological and verbal punching-bags. And they resent being challenged on any level for the falsehoods and outright lies they try to beat everyone over the head with as "God's Truth."

You're a conservative. Have you been attacked or generalized about?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
cschoenen
"Evil conquers when good men do nothing"
09:09 AM on 03/31/2011
actually the last poll by CNN it was 64% of Dems....and 77% of Rep. support libya cause....bi-partisan effort.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
fishretired
08:32 PM on 03/30/2011
It might be the GOP showing hypocrisy - I mean how often have you ever heard anyone in the GOP criticize a military strike? In fact, if you did criticize, you were un-american - even at a trillion dollar pop. This little operation has so much potential at so little costs - please Joe get a grip.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Kevin Krooss
06:31 PM on 03/30/2011
Which liberals called for his ouster? What liberals are even on TV, besides Maddw? I bet Scarborough doesn't even know any true Liberals.

When was the last time he had a sit-down discussion with Janeane Garofalo or Sam Seder? On or off the air. His head would explode.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
cschoenen
"Evil conquers when good men do nothing"
09:11 AM on 03/31/2011
CNN last poll 64% of Dems support it 77% of Rep. support it.....just one poll gives majority....and Bi-partisan
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
babeltek
06:24 PM on 03/30/2011
It's great that you pointed out a lot of people who are consistent with their philosophical and political opposition to non-defensive wars. I really appreciate the links. However, there really ARE a lot of well-respected and/or very vocal Democrats who seem to have serious cognitive dissonance in their over-zealous support for the Obama administration. Eleanor Clift comes to mind. Also, "hundreds" of anti-war protestors in a smattering of cities, you have to admit, is many levels of magnitude different than the protests against the Iraq war.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
cschoenen
"Evil conquers when good men do nothing"
05:30 PM on 03/30/2011
Huh...interesting for those of you who stated countries like FRANCE oppossed the Iraq war...interesting names on the list who were getting oil subsidies from Sadaam....no wonder they didn't care Hundreds of thousands were getting killed by that dictator.........:
http://www.publicintegrity.org/investigations/tobacco/assets/pdf/cij-saddammoney-091802.pdf
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ulalume s Ague
Fighting for the Poe People
03:18 PM on 03/30/2011
Not all liberals are democrats and not all democrats are anti-war. And, few democrats agree with each other. Scarborough is smart enought to know this. It's just part of thecynical conservative overreach. Eventually they'll have enough people thinking that Bachman is a liberal. Of course, that will be when we have the permanent co-presidency of Gebrueder Koch.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Sir Guy Grand
A little bit of the old pause...
02:47 PM on 03/30/2011
Linkins' article is badly argued. He quotes:

"President Barack Obama bowed to his generals' demands by tripling troops in an unending war. CODEPINK did nothing." (from Scarborough)

"Not true! CODE PINK wants a ceasefire in Libya...." (Linkins)

But obviously, Scarborough was referring to the Afghan war, not Libya. Am I missing something?
11:44 PM on 03/30/2011
CODE PINK is also against the Afghan war, so although poorly worded Linkins' overall point is correct on that one.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MsYellowDog
02:20 PM on 03/30/2011
If Scarborough said it,whatever it's about,he fabricated it straight out of his nether regions.He and Pat Buchanan can be counted on as eternal prevaricators and inventors of "facts" that do not exist.When either of them appear on MSNBC,I use the "Off" button.