Geert Wilders, Anti-Islamic Dutch Politican, 'Hate Speech' Trial To Move Forward In Amsterdam

Despite repeated requests to dismiss the case, the trial of Dutch politician Geert Wilders, who is charged with inciting hatred and discrimination against Muslims, will go ahead.

As the BBC is reporting, Wilders -- whose Freedom Party is propping up an all-conservative minority Cabinet -- had argued the Amsterdam-based court could not try the case as the alleged offenses took place in The Hague.

Having once compared the Koran to Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf, Wilders also insists his controversial remarks on Islam were part of a legitimate debate and therefore within his free-speech rights. "I've had enough of Islam in the Netherlands; let not one more Muslim immigrate," Wilders is quoted by the Associated Press as saying. "I've had enough of Islam in the Netherlands -- ban that fascist book."

For their part, prosecutors argued the WIlders "made expressions insulting to Muslims as a group," and "incited hatred against people, namely Muslims, on the basis of their religion or race."

According to the AP, Wilders' detractors say the politician's remarks have led to increased discrimination against Muslims in the Netherlands, where they make up around six per cent of the population, and impinges on their right to freedom of religion. In 2008, Wilders shot to international notoriety with the release of a short film Fitna, which mixes Koranic verses with footage of extremist attacks, Al-Jazeera reports.

The trial is adjourned until April 13, when three experts on Islam and the Middle East will be called to give evidence with a verdict expected in June.

Comments

[Safiya Malik]

02:44 PM on 04/20/2011

It needs to be said that most deals forged with many Islamic leaders don´t help the majority of Muslims who just happen to be women and gays. We deserve better treatment than what they truly have in store for us namely subjugation and/or death...and eventually would apply to all mankind.
Are we not entitled to have differing views from those espoused in political Islam? If so, please don´t leave us to their mercy -because they are convinced theyŕe doing Gods´ work -though the reality is quite different.
I have friends who one might call Islamists. I care about them, but that hardly means they should be allowed to have their way. The day Islam is run by the ¨do unto others¨ crowd will be the day modern Muslims will feel safe. In order to get there the anti-freedom lot will have to be called out and prevented from intimidating those who need freedom.
Make smart choices and keep it about ideas rather than people and the people you´re trying to help will be supportive (even if behind the scenes) here´s an example of how not to do it:

http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1741&Itemid=1

Fundamentalists don´t speak for Muslims much less Allah...so let their deception fall on deaf ears that equality and religious harmony might be heard!

[Spock]

09:38 AM on 05/01/2011

The Koran does indeed give fundi Muslims the justification they need to kill, maim, and terrorize. If the Koran, like the bible, are the words of god, then god/allah is really proud of bin Laden and the goons who flew those planes into buildings that day.

[Safiya Malik]

09:39 AM on 05/10/2011

Muslims have a duty to protect the Ummah. One can find verses in the holy Qu'ran with instructions to "kill, maim, and terrorize" but only under certain conditions. I find it extremely selfish to conduct "martyrdom operations" at the expense of surviving Muslims!
I also think scripture should be interpreted in the context of time it was written. Muslims were persecuted in the time of Mohamed (saw) and ancient Muslims had a right to self-preservation. Today those rights are still as valid, however the tactics seems more like a recipe for disaster. Some fundi Christians seem to want to bring about the end of days but I highly doubt God approves. The same holds true for Islamists who see themselves as pious heroes. Allah didn't give them the power to reason to reject faith, but rather to reject madness. Crusaders were promised eternal life if they died in the process of "defending the faith". Does that mean they should consider how it might affect the Christians back in Europe whilst attempting to collect their reward? The answer is a resounding YES...those who do otherwise are anything but heroes!
I personally think god/allah is proud of those who nurture and respect all of his gifts. I don't worry what fundis think and I absolutely refuse to let them get their wish if they refuse to consider the needs of others.

[doodie pants]

04:32 AM on 04/10/2011

http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/losing-our-spines-to-save-our-necks/

Sam Harris puts it best. Read the entire article about Geert.

"The lesson we should draw from the Fitna controversy is that we need more criticism of Islam, not less. Let it come down in such torrents that not even the most deluded Islamist could conceive of containing it. As Ibn Warraq, author of the revelatory Why I Am Not a Muslim, said in response to recent events:

It is perverse for the western media to lament the lack of an Islamic reformation and willfully ignore works such as Wilders’ film, Fitna. How do they think reformation will come about if not with criticism? There is no such right as ‘the right not to be offended; indeed, I am deeply offended by the contents of the Koran, with its overt hatred of Christians, Jews, apostates, non-believers, homosexuals but cannot demand its suppression. "

[doodie pants]

04:24 AM on 04/10/2011

We are to respect Islam as a peaceful and tolerant religion? You do realize that the official Islamic punishment for converting from Islam to another religion is death right?

http://isl­am-qa.com/­en/ref/203­27/apostat­e

[Aizat Azhari]

11:15 AM on 04/27/2011

A religion may have things to say that do not always accommodate to your wants and expectations.

It doesn't make much difference than the Bible does it;

If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; ... Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
-- Deuteronomy, Chapter 17:2-3,5

[doodie pants]

11:33 AM on 04/27/2011

Well, keep in mind that comparing the savage laws of one faith doesn't do anything for Islam. Also.....according to history and mainstream Islamic thought, the people these laws from Deuteronomy were talking to were THE original Muslims. Infact a one of the great Prophets of Islam brought these from God to men. (which is one reason you can't likely enjoy the wonderful flavor of bacon)

In addition your comment is even less relevant to due to this:
Christiani­ty has the Jesus cop out. Islam Doesn't. The codes for living were changed when Jesus came and the old law was mostly scrapped. The Koran and the Hadith are still the current Islamic codes for living. Any Christian will tell you that the Old Testament laws are not in action anymore.

[doodie pants]

12:43 PM on 04/27/2011

"A religion may have things to say that do not always accommodat­e to your wants and expectatio­ns."

Here's a crazy idea. If it isn't reasonable......don't follow it. A long chain of statements such as, "a guy told me it was the Word of God" stretching back until the 7th Century gives no credence to truth. Humans talk.

[pinkibus]

09:49 PM on 05/07/2011

doodie - you do realize if you are not baptized a Christian you will go to hell. Forever.

[doodie pants]

11:12 PM on 05/07/2011

pinkibus,
Do you realize that if you were born on the border of Pakistan you would have been raised Muslim and likely believed it with all your heart. And then, according to you...burn in hell. Is you salvation a result of a geographic birth lottery?

Also, Do you realize that that you are basing your statement on collections of writings and letters deemed the "Word of God" by large councils and votes of early church leaders. Heck, I wish I could write a letter and have it be deemed "infallible Word of God" 300 years later. (Ex. Paul) Why? How? My faith is in God....not men.

[shino]

04:55 PM on 04/06/2011

He kinda look like Adolf Hitler's son lol racist always calls other people Adolf Hitler besides if Netherlands ban Muslims and their religion book then all Muslim countries the should ban all Netherlands and their religions books too I think is fair enough, also all the Arab countries not to sell your oils too lol.

[JessCostello]

08:56 PM on 04/10/2011

The Netherlands will be fine without them.

[Memorizer]

11:30 AM on 04/05/2011

Europe is crumbling under Islam. Mass-immigration of Muslims have done nothing but create Islamic ghettos where they can murder and rape us infidels.

The far-right as you call them are growing because the left are too afraid to tackle it.

Take a look at the UK, there's a group named the English Defense League who have thousands of members and are growing.

[shino]

04:58 PM on 04/06/2011

Well isn't England populated every where in the world is time to share that nothing is wrong with that lol peace.

[patience1]

10:46 PM on 04/02/2011

People who defended him of his freedom of speech, He lives in Netherland not in the US and apparetly Dutch government decide to try him because for a reason and If they decided that he need to go to jail or pay fine and be it! You just have to respect that.
This loonie and bigot want to TAX muslim woman who wear headscarfes. He is not only have a problem with a handful radical extremist but he hate all of muslim and Islam. In this Netherland Radio you can read about him from his fellow Dutchman. http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/geert-

[patience1]

11:06 PM on 04/02/2011

The correct link of Radio Netherland
http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/geert-wilders-racist-or-not

[altoplano]

01:33 PM on 04/03/2011

I suspect he advocates the tax because identity-concealing garments and symbols of the subjugation of women are not in keeping with Dutch culture.

[patience1]

03:27 PM on 04/02/2011

For people who defend this bigot Greet Wilders for the sake of freedom of Speech I wonder if they also work hard to defend Noam chomsky when he barred to give the lecture by Israel Government, Tariq ramadan when finally he let give the speech, Helen Thomas, and others?????
Vyonne Riddley ask that " Why Terry Jones can burn the Quran, but if you rae heckled the Isrealis Ambassador you get charge with Crime?" I wonder these people strongly support 11 Irvine studentsfor their freedom of Speech?

[Jan Allen McDaniel]

07:34 AM on 04/02/2011

As usual, Sam Harris says it best:

"Wilders, like Westergaard and the other Danish cartoonists, has been widely vilified for “seeking to inflame” the Muslim community. Even if this had been his intention, this criticism represents an almost supernatural coincidence of moral blindness and political imprudence. The point is not (and will never be) that some free person spoke, or wrote, or illustrated in such a manner as to inflame the Muslim community. The point is that only the Muslim community is combustible in this way. The controversy over Fitna, like all such controversies, renders one fact about our world especially salient: Muslims appear to be far more concerned about perceived slights to their religion than about the atrocities committed daily in its name. Our accommodation of this psychopathic skewing of priorities has, more and more, taken the form of craven and blinkered acquiescence.

[…] Islam is a religion of peace, and if you say that it isn’t, we peaceful Muslims cannot be held responsible for what our less peaceful brothers and sisters do. When they burn your embassies or kidnap and slaughter your journalists, know that we will hold you primarily responsible and will spend the bulk of our energies criticizing you for “racism” and “Islamophobia.”

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/do-we-have-the-right-to-burn-the-koran/

[Mark Webber]

08:17 AM on 04/02/2011

Very good post and link Jan. Doug wont like it though.

[Jan Allen McDaniel]

10:21 AM on 04/02/2011

Such is life.

[Doug Sandlin]

09:31 PM on 04/09/2011

I don't dislike it, per se.

It's exactly what I'd expect from both Jan and Sam.

Two very smart guys who continually mystify me with the opinions they hold.

[de-meme-ing]

10:47 AM on 04/02/2011

Can't keep fanning you, but can favorite. : )

[Erewhon7]

02:16 AM on 04/02/2011

Another proof Geert is correct. In every way.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Erewhon7/afghanistan-koran-protest-un-workers-killed_n_843562_82880653.html

[sheherezade]

11:09 AM on 04/01/2011

April 1st.

[Ergon]

08:44 AM on 04/01/2011

An interesting read here about Geert Wilder's roots which might explain his present day intolerance: http://vorige.nrc.nl/international/article2350022.ece
"Van Leeuwen explains how this group has long been part of extreme-right movements (many supported the Dutch Nazi party NSB in Indonesia in the 1930s) while others belonged to the far-right of the right-wing liberal party VVD. She puts Wilders' statements in the conservative and colonial tradition of this group, which strongly believed in patriotism and "European values".
Van Leeuwen's analysis goes beyond the personal level: "The fact that Wilders obviously operates in a post-colonial political dimension, without it being recognised, says a lot about how the Netherlands dealt with, and still deals with the colonial past. Keep quiet, deny, forget and look the other way have been the motto for decades. Because of that, no one could imagine that what happened in Indonesia 50 years ago could still have its impact on modern-day politics."

[Jan Allen McDaniel]

09:19 AM on 04/01/2011

which strongly believed in patriotism and "European values".
==========

How shameful.

[Ergon]

10:24 AM on 04/01/2011

Duly ignored: European 'values' of ethnic discrimination and post-colonial angst?
Let's just say I support the positive European values of tolerance and democracy, and decry intolerant behaviors on ALL sides.

[loOranks]

09:27 AM on 04/01/2011

Here's an interesting response to that article: http://opinie.volkskrant.nl/artikel/show/id/4043

[Ergon]

04:26 PM on 04/01/2011

It's a funny response for sure, good for a chuckle :)
It doesn't reply to her analysis of 'Indo' community support for extreme right wing movements.

[houteklomp]

05:26 AM on 04/01/2011

This trial will expose Islam for what it is, because in order to try Wilders they will have to prove his statements to be wrong and in order to prove Wilders' statements wrong they will have to prove the ideology of Islam to be right. But the more they dig around in this ideology's texts the more hidious, irate and cult-like it will prove to be. There is no way Islam will be able to survive the scrutiny of rational law-enforcing minds. You might say that Islam is a religion and not a set of absolute rules to be weighed for their correctness, I would say that you could not be more wrong, because in the Muslim mind there is no distinction between the two and this is at the very core of the difference between Islam and the free West. In Islam, belief and logic occupy the same u.n.e.n.l.i.g.h.t.e.n.e.d spot. This will forever prevent Muslims to act upon their logic and for them to make any progress, ever. Eternally transfixed in the 7th century with an irate, barbaria as role model.

Maybe this trial will trigger any sensible Muslim to rethink what they've got themselves into and as Islam is never allowed to get reformed, the only option would be to renounce it, leave it and help others to do the same.

[mommamia526]

10:53 AM on 04/06/2011

Thank you wooden shoe! I have never encountered any post colonial angst, nor have I encountered any discrimination with respect to race, national orgins or religion while I still lived in Nederland. What I have noticed is centuries of family traditions, intermarriage, families with branches both in East Idie ( Dutch East Indies - Indonesia after 1947), and exellent relationships.Indonesian culture is part of Dutch culture, especially Indonesian cuisine.

But there is a logic to Muslim *reasoning*. It is just twisted, and upside down. They do have objectives and achieve those objectives by hook and by crook. Of course, it has nothing to do with faith, the deity, or religion. It is about politics and (over)power(ing).

The they understand things differently from how we understand them is just a ruse. Just observe how they do think exactly as we do when it involves themselves. Example: they will use one fact, one incident,or one person to paint an entire group, country or system in a bad light and accuse. Try to do something identical to them, and they know all the right arguments and stand up tall and straight, shouting loudly and endlessly, with the same arguments they deny others.

[houteklomp]

08:35 PM on 04/27/2011

Thank you for your wise words and I prize myself lucky to have been able to grow up in a pair of wooden shoes :). Luckily the Netherlands is a democracy (still) and usually in the end the best ideas will get the most support. Right now, they (the Netherlands and many other countries) are only in the process of becoming aware of what is going on. Hopefully sooner than later everything will be put in the right perspective and the most logical and humane solutions voted up, for implementation. I cannot imagine the "holy" Islamic scriptures to be able to withstand the scrutiny of human and humanistic reasoning for too much longer. Chances are that the more radical followers of that "religion" will recognise their imminent demise and step up their Jihad in a bid to stifle any criticism but I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before the more enlightened Muslims will liberate themselves and render the rest an impotent fringe movement.

Gado Gado ftw lol

[Jan Allen McDaniel]

10:56 AM on 04/06/2011

What you are describing is political Islam, Islamism.

There are interpretations of the Koran that are compatible with Western ideals. Islam is like all religions, some good ideas, some bad.

Broad-brush condemnation ignores this reality and slows the progress of Islamic textual reform--the long term answer to the conflict between Islam and the West.

[houteklomp]

10:08 AM on 04/08/2011

Why would the 57 members of the OIC have to come up with their own version of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, called the Cairo Declaration, basically a copy of the original one but now with every parapraph ending with "as long as it complies with Sharia law" if the majority of these countries don't follow this ideology in any political manner?

[erehwon2]

11:36 PM on 03/31/2011

Frankly, I think some of the European laws like this one and the one making Holocaust denial a crime are ridiculous and accomplish nothing. People should feel free to disagree with, ridicule, or even laugh at such "offenses," but unless the people are inciting violence or other crimes, they should be allowed to speak their piece.

The nutjobs will only reveal themselves for what they are and any actual valid points might be discussed. By criminalizing such speech, it makes an observer wonder what the lawmakers are afraid of.

[Tim Daniels]

10:09 PM on 03/31/2011

From my perspective the worlds worst problem is bigotry. Until we get a hand on bigolry then none of the worold ills will be cured.

[squiems]

07:26 PM on 03/31/2011

He is a little extreme for my tastes, but I dont think anybody could argue that there are some pretty horrible things condoned in the quran and hadiths that are considered immutable by muslims today (while most of the horrible things from the bible are not part of religious practice for christians and jews today). And more importantly, islam is far more than a personal faith for a lot of muslims. Especially in europe, there is wholesale resistance to assimilation and forceful and even violent demands that the host country conform to their cultural norms, no matter how far they are from those of western liberal pluralistic culture.

[Doug Sandlin]

08:19 PM on 03/31/2011

I also don't think, though, that anybody could argue that American Muslims show essentially no signs of believing these "pretty horrible things".

Why should American Muslims be subject to so much conjecture about what they believe?

It seems like quite the double-standard:

Christianity teaches principles (love, tolerance, etc.) that many Christians don't exemplify by a long shot, and it is Christians, rather than the teachings of Christianity, which are judged and reviled for their anti-social behavior.

Muslims, specifically American Muslims, on the other hand, are said to believe certain things, as judged by non-Muslims, and when they show no sign of believing those things, and their behavior is, on average, more peaceful and law-abiding than is average, for Americans -- are still said to believe the things that non-Muslims say they believe.

What's up with that?

[Erewhon7]

09:04 PM on 03/31/2011

Spare us your graphomania at least on subject of contemp.European politics and culture- subject you know nothing about.

[squiems]

09:07 PM on 03/31/2011

despite being by far the most moderate muslim population, over a quarter of american muslims believe violence against civilians is acceptable in some situations. Over a dozen american muslims have attempted or carried out deadly terrorist attacks against americans. As my post specified, i have nothing against islam as a personal faith. But the violent and inhumane examples of political islam in the west are something every westerner who respects our liberal values should be worried about.

[JessCostello]

10:07 PM on 04/05/2011

It's an invasion.