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After Arizona Veto, Guns On Campus Legislation Still Pending In Other States

Gun Control

First Posted: 04/21/11 12:22 PM ET Updated: 06/21/11 06:12 AM ET

On Monday night, Hildy Saizow, President of Arizonans for Gun Safety, received very surprising news: Gov. Jan Brewer (R) had vetoed SB 1467, a bill that would have allowed guns outside on college campuses.

“I was totally shocked,” said Saizow. “Particularly here in Arizona, this is a very rare victory.”

The abrupt end of Arizona’s bill caught even the most hopeful gun-control advocates off guard. Brewer has been a strong gun-rights figure, a National Rifle Association-rated “A+” candidate who has happily signed bills that eliminated concealed carry permits and allowed guns inside bars, restaurants and privately owned parking lots. But even in Arizona, the state with the most lenient gun laws in the country, according to the Legal Community Against Violence’s rankings, the gun rights lobby can’t seem to break past the university’s hallowed walls.

The eleventh hour veto gives the Arizona scuffle a dramatic element, but the plot and the characters are hardly new. It’s a narrative that’s repeated itself more than 50 times in the past four years since the Virginia Tech shooting, in blue states and red states, and in all regions of the country. And the denouement is always the same: The gun rights coalition, accustomed to sweeping successes in other areas of gun legislation, always loses.

“Since the 2007 [Virginia Tech] shooting, guns-on-campus legislation has failed 52 times in 28 states,” said Colin Goddard, who survived being shot four times at Virginia Tech, and now works as the assistant director for federal legislation for the Brady Campaign, the largest gun-control organization in the country.

Arizona marks failure 53. But at a time when guns-on-campus activists could be putting their tails -- or perhaps their rifles -- between their legs, they have a different, somewhat optimistic message.

“In four years, we’ve done a lot,” said Reid Smith, the Midwest Regional Director for Students for Concealed Carry, the leading guns-on-campus lobbying group, which boasts more than 40,000 members. “We need to move that political window a little bit, and we’re getting there. The lobbying stuff, we can only do that if the public accepts the idea.”

There’s little data, however, to suggest that the American public is growing close to embracing guns on college campuses. Up-to-date national data is unavailable, but a February 2011 survey by American Viewpoint, a right-leaning public opinion polling organization, found that 69 percent of Arizonans and 62 percent of Coloradans opposed guns-on-campus proposals.

The closer one gets to campus, the stronger the opposition. Hundreds of university administrators have come out against guns-on-campus legislation, including Francisco Cigarroa, chancellor of the University of Texas, one of the largest public university systems in the state.

“It’s notable that not a single university administrator [in Texas] has said, ‘Yes, do allow guns on campus,’” said John Woods, a gun control advocate whose girlfriend was killed in the Virginia Tech shooting.

But if one counts by state capitals instead of per capita, the guns-on-campus movement is certainly spreading.

Legislation that involves some form of gun carrying on campus is currently pending in at least ten states -- three of which, Illinois, Nebraska and North Carolina, are seeing this legislation introduced for the first time this year. Early 2011 saw nearly 20 states considering such legislation, but bills have already failed in Colorado, Florida, Idaho, New Mexico, West Virginia, Virginia and now Arizona. New Hampshire, too, voted down a two-year bill for this year, but it will reappear in 2012. Currently Utah is the only state that requires public universities to allow guns on college campuses.

In some states, the two sides are already suited up for imminent showdowns.

In Tennessee, a bill to allow faculty and staff members with permits to carry guns on campus will be heard in the House Judiciary Committee on May 3. University administrators are wasting no time in opposing the bill.

“The University of Tennessee has repeatedly stated its opposition to allowing anyone other than law enforcement officers to carry guns while on campus,” the school's president Joe DiPietro told NWTN Today.

In Texas, a bill that would allow permit holders, who have at least 21 years old in Texas, to carry guns on campus is just one vote away from sailing through the state Senate. The bill seemed a slam-dunk earlier in the year, but two senators changed their minds, and the bill is now stalled, waiting for the two-thirds majority necessary to move it to a vote.

The bill's author, state Sen. Jeff Wentworth (R), was not pleased about the reversal -- “It’s not good form around here; the only thing a senator has in politics is his word,” he told The Huffington Post. But Wentworth says he’s still confident the bill will go through, noting that if a senator is ever absent from session, the already secured 20 votes will be enough to move the bill to a vote.

The list keeps coming.

A Nevada bill for concealed carry on campus passed out of Senate committee last week and is headed to the floor, thanks in part to testimony from Amanda Collins, a University of Nevada student and concealed carry license-holder who was raped in the parking lot of University of Nevada, Reno while her gun sat at home, per campus rules.

In Illinois, one of the two states in the country that does not allow gun owners to carry concealed weapons, a sweeping bill introduced this year would allow concealed carry for permit-holders for the first time -- including on college campuses. Wednesday, the Chicago police department noted that the state has gaps in its mental health screening for potential gun owners that make the concealed carry legislation worrisome.

Michigan, too, has sweeping legislation in committee that would eliminate all pistol-free zones, which include college classrooms and dorms, as well as bars, churches, large stadiums and other locations. The bill is expected to be heard this summer. Other states with legislation pending include Mississippi, Nebraska, North Carolina, Oklahoma and Kansas.

In the states that the legislation has been defeated, gun control advocates have little time to celebrate.

“They’ve wasted no time in saying that they’ll be back with another bill next year,” said Hildy Saizow of Arizonans for Gun Safety, only two days after Brewer’s veto.

The gun-rights versus gun-control debate is as old as the Constitution, but the guns-on-campus issue has exploded in the past four years, with more and more states considering the issue. The catalyst was Virginia Tech, with both sides employing the tragedy to prove their own case. For gun-rights advocates, the argument is fairly straightforward: In the event of another large-scale school shooting, someone -- be it a professor, student or staff member -- is going to want to have a gun in his or her hands to end the nightmare.

“If some deranged, suicidal person like the man in Viriginia Tech, enters the classroom, I want someone to be able to protect themselves in that room,” explains state Sen. Wentworth of Texas. “And currently that’s against the law. It’s a gun-free room, so it’s a victim-rich room.”

Gun-control advocates, on the other hand, refute this thinking with a host of arguments: Untrained gun carriers will escalate a situation rather than resolve it; suicidal maniacs won’t be deterred from coming on to campus with the knowledge that others will be armed; massive school shootings are rare incidents; and the negative implications of arming students and professors far outweigh any positives.

“It sounds like it might be a good idea, until you start to think about it,” said Andy Goddard, president of the Richmond, Virginia, chapter of Million Mom March, a gun control advocacy group.

Some in favor of gun control argue that a gun-filled campus could have violent consequences for gun holders themselves, pointing to the high suicide rates of teenagers, their raging hormones and their undeveloped pre-frontal cortex (which impacts judgment).

Research indicates that having a gun in one’s home -- which would be the equivalent of a dorm for a college student -- does increase the incidence of suicide, according to Jon Vernick, co-director of John’s Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research.

“There are a lot of studies and they all point in the same direction: Guns increase rates of suicide,” said Vernick. “The evidence is consistent and, I would argue, compelling.”

But that’s about all that’s definitive about gun safety research.

With so few schools already allowing guns on campus, it’s hard to study the issue directly. But there is a large body of research that examines the relationship between crime rates and a 30-year shift toward looser state rules about concealed-carry permits. Study findings run the gamut, from saying that more guns decrease crime rates to saying they cause murders to skyrocket.

In 2005, the National Research Council summed up the body of research and assigned it a frustrating grade: inconclusive.

“The committee concludes that with the current evidence it is not possible to determine that there is a causal link between passage of right-to-carry laws [laws which make it easier to get a conceal carry permit] and crime rates,” wrote the National Research Council in “Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review.”

Money and lobbying efforts, however, are far easier to track.

Since 2007, the NRA has funneled more than a million dollars to the campaigns of state senators and representatives. Last year, the NRA hit a seven-year peak, with nearly $700,000 in lobbying money going to candidates or state ballot measures. Texan lawmakers, for example, received just over $50,000 in 2010.

Not all this money goes directly to sending guns to campus. But Reid Smith of Students for Concealed Carry says that guns on campus usually ranks at least in the top five of the NRA’s issues for any given state. The NRA declined to comment.

In contrast, gun control groups rarely have spare change to sway candidates.

“We haven’t got two cents to rub together!” said Goddard. “We don’t have any donations at the state level here.”

Goddard and other gun control advocates believe that money is behind the steady expansion of states considering guns on campus, meaning that the issue is far from over.

“Someone in the NRA has a list of the states that don’t have it yet, and he just keeps plugging away,” he said.

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On Monday night, Hildy Saizow, President of Arizonans for Gun Safety, received very surprising news: Gov. Jan Brewer (R) had vetoed SB 1467, a bill that would have allowed guns outside on college camp...
On Monday night, Hildy Saizow, President of Arizonans for Gun Safety, received very surprising news: Gov. Jan Brewer (R) had vetoed SB 1467, a bill that would have allowed guns outside on college camp...
 
 
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12:58 PM on 04/22/2011
I believe in individual responsibility, not politics. If I do it I am not going to blame anyone but me. I believe that owning a gun is my right and privilege contingent on my personal responsibility to handle it properly and to be personally responsible for any action or inaction on my part. I truly hope that I don't own weapons out of paranoia, that in itself would be mishandling them because it would cloud my judgement.
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damnedgentlemen
No Your Honor, I was not aware of that
11:43 AM on 04/22/2011
It's a simple compromise, gun nuts-
You can have and carry any weapon you wish, provided it is REGISTERED. That means no selling that AK off of your shoulder at a gun show, period.
If you can't register it, you can't have it.
And if you use your weapon innapropriately, i.e. you kill someone who was not threatening to you, expect to go to jail for the remainder of your upright time on Earth.
If you can't get with that, then be prepared to get the bejeezus regulated out of you until you have to graduate a four year course to carry a pair of nunchuks.
12:18 PM on 04/22/2011
"And if you use your weapon innapropri­ately, i.e. you kill someone who was not threatenin­g to you, expect to go to jail for the remainder of your upright time on Earth." damnedgentleman

Have any of us ever said differently?

"You can have and carry any weapon you wish, provided it is REGISTERED­." damnedgentleman

Sure is nice of you to grant us what is supposed to be an enumerated, fundamental right. Strange thing is, most states require no registration, and the chances you or anyone can get Congress to go along with a registration scheme is real slim, to the point of non-existent.

"That means no selling that AK off of your shoulder at a gun show, period." damnedgentleman

When laws are implemented that will afford a private dealer a way to legally and inexpensively insure a background check is accomplished, we'll talk. Until that happens, you're advocating unreasonable restrictions on a traditionally legal activity, that has been legal for at least 235 years.

By the way, you have said this is a compromise, yet I see only demands from you. Everything you ranted about is already legal. So, you have posited no compromise at all.
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damnedgentlemen
No Your Honor, I was not aware of that
12:35 PM on 04/22/2011
The compromise is...you can have a bazooka if you want.

As far as selling an unregistered gun being legal for 235 years goes...
Slavery was legal for quite awhile, too. What was customary yesterday can still be illegal today.
And...
235 years ago nobody was toting a gun that could kill 30 people in 30 seconds. I think a little adjustment is in order, don't you?
And...
235 years ago, marijuana and cocaine were legal, can we have that back?
235 years ago, prostitution was legal, why not now?

There's plenty more, but I'm pretty sure I've totally thrashed your argument with just what I thought of off the top of my head...no need to rub it in.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Texas Aggie
09:13 AM on 04/26/2011
"Have any of us ever said differentl­y?"

Yes, constantly.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
01:48 PM on 04/22/2011
Registration does not deter or prevent accidents, suicides, or homicides involving firearms.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
cliffhammond
Onward through the fog!
10:50 PM on 04/21/2011
When these conservatives and their "family values" realize that they are arming the gay and lesbian student population, I'm sure they'll have second thoughts. Just think of all that hate going to waste when their children meet their sudden demise.
11:04 PM on 04/21/2011
Ever hear of the Pink Pistols? Even though I don't belong, I support them 100%. Why do you express such bigoted ideas, as they are a projection by you onto those who believe in the Bill of Rights and the COTUS.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
David Carson
02:23 AM on 04/22/2011
and I have shot with them at Angeles range
11:59 PM on 04/21/2011
Cliff, check out http://www.pinkpistols.org/

I would think members of the LGBT community concerned about "gay bashing" would be especially interested in concealed carry for self-defense.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Kayla M KingSmallwood
Far left leaning Democrat
09:19 PM on 04/21/2011
There is no need to carry a gun...period. If you are that much of a pansy then stay locked in your house.
09:30 PM on 04/21/2011
I will pass that along to the Commandant of the Marine Corps. I am sure he will investigate your assertion. and give it all due consideration concerning how he arms Marines.

I will also pass that on to the local chief of police.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Kayla M KingSmallwood
Far left leaning Democrat
09:56 PM on 04/21/2011
I was talking about civilians not the military or police who are trained to carry weapons. The average citizen doesn't even take a gun safety course.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
cliffhammond
Onward through the fog!
10:56 PM on 04/21/2011
We don't need guns and we don't need you. We especially don't need people like you carrying guns to "defend our country" by starting wars of empire all around the world. You and people like you are making us all very, very unsafe.
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schotts
Work hard, play harder
10:14 PM on 04/21/2011
Uh, ok
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KOSMOCITIZEN
time is truth
08:29 PM on 04/21/2011
the day when everybody can carry a gun on university campus, what is going to be the purpose to attend there? sharp your mind or to be a trained CIA spy?
04:11 PM on 04/23/2011
To learn, and to defend ourselves if someone tries to rob us after leaving the library at midnight while trying to study and improve our options for our future careers. We aren't vigilantes. We just want our right of self defense on campus like we have it off.
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David N Taiwan
67 YO American in Taiwan
08:28 PM on 04/21/2011
...and in related news from Reuters...

A 6-year-old boy who brought a gun to his school cafeteria in Houston was showing it off to a classmate when it fired, injuring him and two other kindergarten students, Houston Police said on Thursday.
08:41 PM on 04/21/2011
....in a nation of 300 million. yes, odd things happen now and then.
08:47 PM on 04/21/2011
And that has what exactly to do with a college campus and legal licensed carry?
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David N Taiwan
67 YO American in Taiwan
11:49 PM on 04/21/2011
When is the insanity going to stop?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
logicanada
Blogger, radio co-host, writer, editor, voice-over
06:41 PM on 04/21/2011
Jan could make Dirty Harry cringe in fear.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
BlackJAC
It's better to be a black king than a white knight
07:26 PM on 04/21/2011
Dirty Harry would've been eaten alive by Internal Affairs halfway through the first movie because he was a satirical caricature.
08:44 PM on 04/21/2011
no no, dirty hairy was what inspector callahan called jan's..
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CARLITO101
06:00 PM on 04/21/2011
I live in a right to carry State. I also have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. I am a Military vet and have been exposed to more weapons than the average person and qualified on several in the Military. I still had to take an eight hour course on firearms everyday for a week. I then had to pass a written test and a range qualification test. I had to get a background check from the local Sheriffs office. I had to submit my fingerprints to the F.B.I. for a Federal background check.. I am not allowed to display the weapon unless my life or the life of somebody else is in imminent danger. I am not allowed to carry the weapon into any establishment where 50% or more Sales are of Alcohol etc. Does anybody really believe that a criminal is going to obey these Rules?.In England where all guns are banned the home invasion statistics are 5 times the national average of the United States. Brewer claims this Legislation was sloppy and ambigous and that seesm to be the case.. There are three States in the U.S. where it is Legal. None have had a shooting on their campuses.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
BlackJAC
It's better to be a black king than a white knight
07:27 PM on 04/21/2011
Only has to happen once, kinda like all the hoops we have to jump through just to fly from City A to City B because some whackjob filled his underwear with Semtex.
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Iconcoclast
complicated laws are opportunities for scoundrels
04:35 AM on 04/22/2011
Here is a good letter from a professor who was at VT on concealed carry on campus:

http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/118853/
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05:55 PM on 04/21/2011
When I was attending the University of Illinois at Chicago, I was walking to Union Station and was approached by a homeless man near Halsted/Harrison.

He asked me for some money and told me how he collects newspapers to try an educate himself. He opened his garbage bag full of news papers as proof. Actually he was showing me the loaded handgun in the garbage bag.

As I was being robbed in Chicago (which had a handgun ban at that time) and less than a block from University grounds (which has a full weapons ban), I didn't feel very "safe" with all of these firearms laws that were their to protect me.

This is one of the first times I have mentioned this outside my close group of gun-nut friends. It makes me wonder how many other stories like mine exist, or how many of those stories will never be told by un-armed victims that are no longer with us.

It is very sad, that those on the left, or those with blind hatred for guns will use the shootings in AZ to achieve a goal. Or insult/bash those who are proud firearms owners and try to make us feel like criminals.

Don't tell me how I should feel about an item that you have never owned, fired or understand.

Don't tell me that I am safer with your "common sense" laws.
This comment has been removed due to violations of our [Guidelines]
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
frank day
Republican = FAIL
07:47 PM on 04/21/2011
What is it like to live every minute in fear?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Kayla M KingSmallwood
Far left leaning Democrat
09:21 PM on 04/21/2011
Fanned!
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
02:38 AM on 04/22/2011
Thank you for proving my point!!!

Only dead bodies are good for groups like the Brady Campaign.

You will mock me, for the single reason that I am not "afraid" of a gun. But if I was from a low income community and was on the news crying about how we need to save the children, you wouldn't have the guts to ask a question like that.

Yes, I had a bad experience with a gun. I also have been in several car accidents that were not my fault, had food poisoning from a restaurant, and many many other experiences in my life that were bad. But I still drive a car and I still go out to eat, and I still own a gun.

I'm sorry that I am not the poster child for illogical and unnecessary gun regulation...

But for proving my point, you did exactly what I mentioned above in insulting a firearms owner and tried to shame me into feeling bad about my views.

Insults and mockery are a sign that you have no real argument.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Broderick Crawford
05:50 PM on 04/21/2011
POLK COUNTY FLORIDA SHERIFF,
GRADY JUDD


An illegal alien, in Polk County , Florida , who got pulled over in a routine traffic stop, ended up "executing" the deputy who stopped him. The deputy was shot eight times, including once behind his right ear at close range. Another deputy was wounded and a police dog killed.
A state-wide manhunt ensued.

The murderer was found hiding in a wooded area. As soon as he took a shot at the SWAT team, officers opened fire on him. They hit the guy 68 times.

Naturally, the liberal media went nuts and asked why they had to shoot the poor, undocumented immigrant 68 times.

Sheriff Grady Judd told the Orlando Sentinel: "Because that's all the ammunition we had." Now, is that just about the all-time greatest answer or what!

The Coroner also reported that the illegal alien died of natural causes. When asked by a reporter how that could be, since there were 68 bullet wounds in his body, he simply replied: (BEST QUOTE of 2009) . . .

"When you are shot 68 times you are naturally gonna die."
05:35 PM on 04/21/2011
You are telling me 20,000 drunk kids in a an area of 2 square miles packing heat and fire arms is a good idea? I was one of those immature drunk 18 year old kids once and NO WAY would it have been a good idea for me to be walking around with a loaded gun. Let me list some reasons:
1 ) Many college kids are stressed and depressed and lonely. You don't think having guns around dorms can't lead to more suicides?
2) Can you see a gun going off in a dorm and a bullet going through a wall because drunk kids are clowniong around?
3) Stalking of females is a major issue on college campus. Stalking with guns is even worst.
4) When Bobby finds out susie has been kissing Johnny, you don't think once in awhile Bobby will shoot Johnny in the head over jealousy?
5) Can you see a gun going off in a dorm and a bullet going through a wall because drunk kids are clowniong around?
6) Can you see a gun going off in a dorm and a bullet going through a wall because drunk kids are clowniong around?
7) Can you see a gun going off in a dorm and a bullet going through a wall because drunk kids are clowniong around?
8) Can you see a gun going off in a dorm and a bullet going through a wall because drunk kids are clowniong around?
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05:58 PM on 04/21/2011
1) Read the bill.
2) Read how other states allow concealed carry on campus and the restrictions they have in place.
3) Understand why your post is emotional, and not fact based.
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schotts
Work hard, play harder
08:20 PM on 04/21/2011
Thi isn't happening where colleges allow concealed carry now. What makes you think it will get of control elsewhere?
05:28 PM on 04/21/2011
I have never been a fan of Jan Brewer, but I have to give her credit for this.
08:40 PM on 04/21/2011
I agree. Give credit where credit is due.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
bobclapp1936
05:24 PM on 04/21/2011
Wow! Wouldn't Disney have chosen her as one of his many wicked witches or godmothers.
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Transam man
I've got the Down to Seeds and Stems Again Blues
05:11 PM on 04/21/2011
It's easier to fall in a hole than climb back out.
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04:37 PM on 04/21/2011
McCain cant run for office again, but hey the right to carry is going to be protected. Talk about back firing!