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Texas Senate Republicans Approve Guns On Campus

JIM VERTUNO   05/ 9/11 09:58 PM ET   AP

Guns

AUSTIN, Texas — Republicans in the Texas Senate on Monday approved allowing concealed handgun license holders to carry weapons into public college buildings and classrooms, moving forward on a measure that had stalled until supporters tacked it on to a universities spending bill.

Sen. Jeff Wentworth, R-San Antonio, had been unable to muster the votes he needed under Senate rules to pass the issue as its own bill after the measure met stiff resistance from higher education officials, notably from within the University of Texas system.

The measure seemed all but assured easy passage when the legislative session began in January. The Senate had passed a similar bill in 2009 and about 90 lawmakers in the 150-member House had signed on in support this year. But the bill stalled on its first three votes in the Senate and took some maneuvering by Wentworth to get it through.

Supporters hope Monday's vote will help shove the measure past a roadblock in the House, where a similar bill has been stuck without a vote in that chamber with just a few weeks left in the legislative session.

"Campus carry has more momentum than a runaway freight train," said W. Scott Lewis of Students for Concealed Carry, a nationwide group backing the measure.

The Senate's 12 Democrats had mostly worked as a block to stop the measure but were powerless to stop it on Monday when all it took was a simple majority in the 31-member chamber to get it added to the spending bill as an amendment.

At that point, Wentworth even picked up an extra vote from Rep. Steve Ogden, R-Bryan, who had previously opposed the measure.

Even with large numbers in support, the campus guns measure quickly boiled into one of most controversial issues of the session.

Supporters call it a critical self-defense measure and guns rights issue. UT-System Chancellor Francisco Cigarroa wrote lawmakers and Gov. Rick Perry outlining worries from university officials that guns on campus will lead to more campus crime and suicides.

Hearings on the measure were dominated by powerful testimony from supporters who had been raped or assaulted on college campuses, and several people who had survived the 2007 mass shooting at Virginia Tech University when a gunman killed 32 people.

Sen. Judith Zaffirini, D-Laredo, who was a student at the University of Texas in 1966 when sniper Charles Whitman killed 12 people and wounded dozens of others, vigorously argued against the guns measure.

She predicted mass chaos if police respond to a call and find several people with guns drawn.

"I can't imagine the horrors if this passes," Zaffirini said.

Wentworth was unmoved. He recalled the shooting at Virginia Tech and said he wants to give students a chance to defend themselves.

"There was no one there to defend themselves in a gun-free zone that was a victim-rich zone," Wentworth said. "I'm trying to avoid that type of situation."

Ironically, it was an amendment by Zaffirini that opened the door for Wentworth's gun measure. Those two had battled in previous weeks when Wentworth tried to amend the guns measure to another universities spending bill she had authored.

She withdrew her bill but offered it up as an amendment on Monday. Minutes after hers was approved, Wentworth introduced his amendment and got the guns measure put on the bill.

After the vote, Wentworth exchanged a few imaginary shots with another lawmaker outside the Senators-only lounge behind the chamber.

Texas passed its concealed handgun license law in 1995. License holders must be at least 21 and pass a training course.

Guns on campus bills have been rejected in at least 23 states since 2007. The bill originally covered private universities as well, but was changed to cover only public institutions of higher education. The Senate also rejected attempts to allow the university boards of regents to decide gun policy on their campuses.

For supporters, Texas is the big prize. Early signs the bill would pass here captured the attention of international media which could not resists the state's larger-than-life reputation and frontier image.

Texas is where concealed handgun license holders are allowed to skip metal detectors in the state Capitol, and Perry made headlines for shooting a coyote on a morning jog last year. Earlier on Monday, senators voted to allow themselves to carry concealed handguns into places the rest of the public cannot, such as churches, restaurants and sporting events.

Perry has said he supports the campus guns measure and is expected to sign it into law if it reaches his desk.

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AUSTIN, Texas — Republicans in the Texas Senate on Monday approved allowing concealed handgun license holders to carry weapons into public college buildings and classrooms, moving forward on a m...
AUSTIN, Texas — Republicans in the Texas Senate on Monday approved allowing concealed handgun license holders to carry weapons into public college buildings and classrooms, moving forward on a m...
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10:40 PM on 05/18/2011
I know that some observers across the nation are concerned that the new law will put university teachers like me in danger of violence from students who are upset with the grades that they deserve. My solution has been to discuss grades with students only in face-to-face interviews and to make sure that my own Walther P99 is prominently displayed on my desk. A simple deterrent.

Other academics argue that the greater presence of guns on college campuses will necessarily lead to a statistically higher incidence of accidental shootings, suicides, and rage sprees. I am appalled by their cynical premise that young, emotionally fragile and hormone-driven adults with access to alcohol and drugs are more likely than anyone else to shoot other people, or themselves. I challenge them to find reliable statistical evidence to support their claims.

As the concealed handgun policy has worked well in my own classes, so I am confident it will serve students and professors at other public universities in Texas—and across the nation. I congratulate Mr. Wentworth in his efforts to pass the law. And I hope he understands that, despite the complaints of a very small minority, he has much support from decent, law-abiding college educators and students alike. I urge other states to follow his brave lead.

Bethany Borders, PhD, CFCS
Associate Professor of Family and Consumer Sciences (formerly Home Economics)
John Salmon Ford State University
10:40 PM on 05/18/2011
Only a single misguided student has ever protested this reasonable policy. In 2007, a Q’Shaquaqua Jones asked if perhaps the presence of guns in the hands of everyone in the classroom might not create a more dangerous atmosphere, especially at a university that was seeking to “enlighten and improve humanity as a whole and cultivate a more civilized world” (HER words). She asked naively, “Might this policy, in fact, not undermine the university’s mission of ‘promoting intellectual, social, and ethical growth’ and ‘encouraging peaceful dialogue among diverse peoples’?”

I was nettled by the challenge: “It might NOT. And Ms. Jones, I’m surprised to hear that sort of question from someone of your persuasion.” I repeated politely but firmly that these were my policies. In her defense, Ms. Jones was respectful in her questions. But I exercised my right to drop her from my roll administratively. She has not since been a problem. (For a few weeks afterward, her parents bothered me with e-mails asking anxiously about her whereabouts, but I never felt an obligation to respond.)
10:39 PM on 05/18/2011
Second, I insist that students keep their safeties on and that they exercise their right to use the handgun only with proper provocation. While there remains some question about what constitutes proper provocation, the students seem to know the distinction instinctively and to honor it. Most of them prefer to settle their disputes in the traditional manner, anyway, by scratching, pulling hair, and defaming their enemies on Facebook pages.

Finally, I insist that the students subscribe to my axiom:

Guns don’t kill people.
People don’t kill people.
The right KINDS of people kill people.

As I have already said, I have had only a few minor incidents since establishing this policy. In fall of 2008, what began as a little tiff between two gifted apparel studies students escalated into a brief classroom firefight. While one student sustained a broken femur from a .45 ACP round, the meatier of the two “suffered” only a flesh wound in her abdomen. No bystanders were wounded. In another incident, a female student fired upon the single male in the room when he suggested that an overcast stitch might serve her fashion project better than a blanket stitch. The girl’s boyfriend had broken up with her the previous evening and she was, understandably, very upset with men. The students in the class not only sympathized but also insisted that she take a second shot, for us all.
10:38 PM on 05/18/2011
As a professor at a public university in Texas, I am delighted that the State Senate has upheld the Second Amendment right of students to carry concealed handguns into college classrooms. I applaud Senator Jeff Wentworth’s persistence in seeing the concealed carry law through, even if he had to append it to a universities budget bill.

Since 2006, I have employed this very policy successfully in my Fashion Merchandising and Textile Science courses at John Salmon Ford State University. That I have had only a handful of gun-related classroom incidents in all that time confirms both the sound theory behind the new law and its proven potential for success.

The virtue of my own policy lies in its few scant rules:

First, because I am staunchly committed to the principle that everyone is inalienably equal, I insist that all students in the classroom be carrying. On the first day of class, I have each student sign a contract promising that by the third week of the term she (more rarely he) will produce both a Concealed Handgun License (CHL) and a certificate of handgun safety training. Because I am reasonable, I waive these requirements for students who are younger than twenty-one and, when pressed, I have permitted some students to circumvent the CHL requirement by bringing their handguns to class UNconcealed.
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08:54 PM on 05/15/2011
NRA writing laws in the sunshine state:
Florida is gun happy with its Tea Party governor Rick Scott and enough legislators to pass pro-gun laws.

** Except no guns on Florida campuses because of objections from students, parents, and campus police officers.

"Another of the bills originally intended to make Florida an open-carry state, but representatives of retail businesses and law enforcement said in committee meetings that they worried about the likely “Wild West” effect on the state’s image.

That bill also had a section allowing guns on college campuses, but it was removed after objections from students, parents and campus police chiefs.

The soon-to-be law now decriminalizes “accidentally or inadvertently display(ing a) firearm to the ordinary sight of another person so long as the firearm is not displayed in a rude, angry, or threatening manner.”



Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/04/28/2190833/guns-bills-approved-by-fla-senate.html#ixzz1MTJN8e9E
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10:22 PM on 05/17/2011
Yes, but to some people, the simple sight of one ot the nasty ugly things is a "rude, threatening" shock. This law makes it so that hoplophobes can't ruin the lives of a law-abiding good citizen, just because some don't like weapons, are frightened by the mere sight.

Remember also that Florida was one of the first states to allow concealed carry -specifically "shall issue" instead of "may issue".
=~20 years ago, there were outcries of blood in the streets over parking spaces and setting the "Wild West" to run loose today.
Note that it didn't happen, that crime went down, with no marked increase in accidents, virtually no crimes of passion or impulse by lawful carrying.

Note also (not that I expect any lessening of the misattribution of all gun owners as tea baggers) that gun ownership is proven to cross all cultural and political boundaries.
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10:18 PM on 05/14/2011
In 1999, NRA had a much less sales and marketing stance about guns on campus. Electoral politics are getting so expensive that principles of an earlier time have become expendable, to the scrap heap, I suppose.

Wayne LaPierre said, “Schools should have absolutely zero tolerance for weapons of any kind, except in the hands of law enforcement. The academic environment is sacred, and more importantly, it's safe, and students need to feel safe.”

How craven and coarse we seem to have grown in the USA over the past decade or so. Has greed become the goal over all else? Selling manufactured products that kill and maim; looking for new clients for profit - even college kids.

Do we blame Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld for this disrespect for human life - this short-sightedness, this inhumanity?

No, we cannot. That's not who we are ...
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and retired military combat vet
11:26 PM on 05/14/2011
It would be nice to see an actual verifiable cite for that statement. Google only shows three hits for it, two of which are the same article from 2009 and both cite the third from 2008 as the source for this 1999 statement. If it were valid, one would expect to see a lot more and from much earlier.
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12:13 AM on 05/15/2011
It is, indeed, unusual for LaPierre to have issued such a statement. It is devoid of fear-mongering, and does not advocate vigilantism. Very suspicious.
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12:40 AM on 05/15/2011
It's all over Google. And it's all over various blogs with gun lobbyists at odds with LaPierre and each other. A rift.
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jackbutler5555
07:56 AM on 05/15/2011
Quite a find.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and retired military combat vet
09:22 AM on 05/15/2011
Unfortunately it appears to be bogus.
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09:27 PM on 05/15/2011
Thanks, jack!
I got your note. Love it!
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jackbutler5555
01:46 PM on 05/14/2011
Help me size this problem the campus carry law would solve.  I've had a job which took me to dozens of campuses and I didn't encounter violence even once.  You think potential perps might've been scared of me?  The Austin campus seemed fine to me.  Was I just lucky?  There are places in the country I would avoid because of the potential for violence.  But college campuses?  Pretty rare, no?
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and retired military combat vet
03:28 PM on 05/14/2011
While homicides are not all that common on campus, rapes are. Also keep in mind transiting to and from campus. If firearms are banned on a campus, and there is no place to store them when you come on to campus, then anyone with a concealed carry permit who is going to or from campus will likely be forced to not carry even when off campus -- and most students live off campus. Further, in the case of Texas, carry is actually allowed in most open public areas on campus, just not in buildings. Therefore, unless each building has its own armory where people can check their firearms....
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03:45 PM on 05/14/2011
Most rapes and sexual violence crimes against women are committed by an intimate partner. Not a surprise attack by a stranger. If guns are permitted on campus, there will be shootings. Even police do not always shoot straight - how would any student react to any given situation? For the thinking person, likely scenarios are very horrible.

When the National Guard arrived at Kent State, what if students carried guns? How many more than four would be dead - including, of course, the Guard members.

Guns on campus is insanity.
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jackbutler5555
05:32 PM on 05/14/2011
I responded to you earlier.  When I clicked Post Comment, it immediately disappeared.  They usually wait a little while before disappearing me.  It must be advanced programming.  Anyway:

So, it's not murder on campus that's the problem to be solved.  It's rape.  Rape of women, presumably.  Of course, men will be able to carry as well -- including rapists.  Nevertheless, have women been polled to see if they like the idea of everyone being allowed to carry arms.?  If they weren't asked, don't you think this is a case of Big Brother government passing laws whose "beneficiaries" haven't requested?  I would imagine some conservatives wouldn't like the government in effect to be forcing women to carry guns because their rapist might. 

The folks in charge of the campuses have said, "Thanks, but no thanks."  Just like Sarah Palin said about the "bridge to nowhere."  I know she didn't, but she said she said that anyway. 

Could it possibly be that the Texas legislature -- dominated by dyed in the wool conservatives -- said to the campuses:  "We're the government and we're here to help you."
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03:37 PM on 05/14/2011
Hey! It's good to see you, jack. Perhaps one of the pro-guns-on-campus enthusiasts will attempt to reply to your inquiry.

I've noticed that the VA Medical Centers prohibit guns and knives on their campuses. "No weapons" signs mark the road entrances. There is always a police presence if someone does not abide by the rules.

VA Medical Centers are often closely affiliated with university medical schools. For example: UC San Francisco and SFVAMC; Emory University, Morehouse Medical, and Georgia Institute of Technology are affliliated with the Atlanta VA; Boston University Medical School with VA Boston; and the University of Louisville with VAMC. What the VA demands for public safety, I cannot imagine their affiliates doing otherwise.

The "campus carry" law is making a bit of a splash, but Americans are not as stupid as the NRA and the bought and paid for "representatives" who write these disgraceful pieces of legislation seem to think we are. Although, in our immediate future, I dred potential shootings that might occur in our gun-glutted culture because of the ease for anyone to get a gun. And a 30-round magazine. Even if they happened to be on a terrorist watch list.
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David Carson
03:47 PM on 05/14/2011
Nancy--if AB144 passes here in Cali--we will have both loaded open carry and concealed carry in a year--and the Brady gun bans you so desperately support are NOT going to happen, so get your head out of the sand
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and retired military combat vet
06:04 PM on 05/14/2011
And if someone is on a TWL because they spoke out about the policies of Pres. Bush or against the USA PATRIOT Act? Or maybe they are on the list because they are a first generation natural citizen since their parents came here from Yemen to start a better life, but they still send money to Yemen to help their remaining family or contribute funds to aid organizations which work in Yemen? Or maybe they just happen to have the same name as someone who is on a TWL? Should these people be barred from purchasing say a shotgun?
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Adam Davies
04:29 AM on 05/13/2011
There is absolutely no reason to ban concealed carry on campus. I can carry everywhere else in the state, but not on campus, simply because I walk into a building to go learn? How does that make any sense? It doesn't change the law forbidding brandishing, or carrying while drinking, or carrying into bars and clubs, etc. It just allows us the right to carry it onto campus. If someone says they would be scared the person next to them has a gun, are they like that at the mall, the bank, the movie theater, the hardware store, the bookstore, Starbucks, etc. They aren't scared there, why is campus any different?
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07:05 AM on 05/13/2011
Your transparent attempts to normalize gun carry under the cloak of "campus safety" provoke disgust, not fear.
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David Carson
12:31 PM on 05/13/2011
sorry raggedyguff, carry is normal in most of this country--it is YOU that is trying to demonize it
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RevJimIII
Grin and Barret...
03:03 PM on 05/13/2011
There is nothing provocative about concealed carry. Your disgust at another person exercising a right is your own problem.
05:18 PM on 05/12/2011
It's better to have a shootout than a massacre
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enlightened45
06:58 PM on 05/12/2011
How's about working on neither......
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David Carson
05:52 AM on 05/13/2011
still a fan of criminal empowerment zones I see
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JasonJM
Life isnt fair, get used to it.
04:23 PM on 05/12/2011
The truth doesnt change with numbers.

"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

The only people carrying on campus will be licensed, trained and following the law.
I'll take 10 per class thanks. You dems dont realize the guy next to you in Walmart is carrying a Gun. It happens all the time. That is called "CONCEALED CARRY". You dont know.
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danielboone
05:00 PM on 05/12/2011
I believe per the constitution you don't need a concealed weapons permit to carry on your person!
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Adam Davies
04:24 AM on 05/13/2011
Honestly, this isn't about stopping a campus shooting. In Texas only one in every 300 21 year olds have their CHLs, so it is unlikely that there will be someone armed in the room the shooter goes to. However, this can certainly help out when we leave the library at 2 in the morning trying to study for our tests. There is no reason to deny my and my friends the right to self defense though. We could stop a mass shooting, or just stop ourselves from being robbed. There is no indication there will be a single negative thing from campus carry, and it could even lower campus crime as it has at some Colorado campuses that allow it.
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eaglespark
"Why waste time learning? Ignorance is quicker."
03:18 AM on 05/12/2011
"If not for the quick thinking of that party goer, it is likely that all the victims would have been killed. 'I am thankful that one student risked his life for others.'"

http://www.mysouthwestga.com/news/story.aspx?id=297291
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03:38 AM on 05/12/2011
A shooting that occurred two years ago at an off-campus party is pertinent to the issue of gun carry in college classrooms how, exactly?
JStading
"Shall NOT be infringed" means what it says.
09:51 AM on 05/12/2011
I love your argument, because it's basically stripping people of the ability to provide evidence while demanding that same evidence.  Essentially, all schools are gun free zones.  All school shootings occur in gun free zones. Because no student there can carry a gun without expulsion/felony charges, no student has a gun in the gun free zone (save the shooter) so no student can stop the rampage.  Granted, there are outlyers, such as the case with the 2002 Appalachian Law School shooting, where two armed students arrested the shooter and saved countless lives, but the combination of the high percentage of gun free areas in universities and the relatively low rate of on-campus shootings conspire to make it impossible to provide the evidence you're demanding.

Let's cut the nonsense - schools in the northwest have had campus carry for years.  Any blood bath there?
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schotts
Strength and Honor
10:08 AM on 05/12/2011
See JStading's comment.

I would add - any at the Utah colleges? What about Colorado State?
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eaglespark
"Why waste time learning? Ignorance is quicker."
12:16 AM on 05/12/2011
Concealed Carry on Campus, part 2:
["Just because the crime rate might be a little lower on campuses doesn't erase the need for self-defense," Burnett said. "If there is one shooting on college campuses a year--just one--the students should have that right to self-defense." And even if shootings are relatively rare, students have other things to worry about, especially female students. A 2009 study by the Center for Public Integrity reported that up to 20 percent of college women will be sexually assaulted before they graduate. College neighborhoods are also hot spots for burglaries and muggings. In light of this, a compelling argument can also be made that guns makes campuses more safe. According to campus police statistics culled by SCCC, the number of crimes per year at Colorado State University, where licensed concealed carry has been allowed since 2003, has dropped from a high of more than 800 in 2002 to less than 300 in 2008.
At Colorado University, where handguns are still banned for the moment, Burnett said, crime has only risen. Law-abiding students with concealed carry licenses are not asking for Wild West shootouts. They're asking for a right they've already been found responsible enough to exercise in public. They're asking--because nowhere is perfectly safe--for at least a fighting chance.] http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/concealed-carry-campus?page=2
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schotts
Strength and Honor
12:56 AM on 05/12/2011
I'm proud, to be, a CSU RAM!
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eaglespark
"Why waste time learning? Ignorance is quicker."
12:09 AM on 05/12/2011
Oregon state law regarding concealed carry with a license is clear-- localities have no legal right to supersede state law. See this test case:
[Oregon law allows licensed citizens to carry a concealed handgun in almost any public building in the state (with the exception of court houses). It also grants the legislative assembly sole power to regulate firearms... The case was spurred by the ordeal of Jeffrey Maxwell, a Western Oregon University student and Marine veteran. Maxwell was arrested in January 2009 for possessing a concealed handgun on campus, even though he was licensed to carry.
The county D.A. released Maxwell after determining he had not broken any laws. Nevertheless, he was still suspended from WOU and ordered by a tribunal of fellow students to undergo a psychiatric evaluation. After a long legal battle, WOU eventually dropped all disciplinary actions against Maxwell... "It makes no sense," Oregon Firearms Federation Executive Director Kevin Starrett said in a phone intervew. "If we can't trust them on campus, why do we trust them anywhere else?"
Indeed, if students' First Amendment right to free expression does not end at the school gates, as the Supreme Court ruled in Tinker v. Des Moines, why should they be denied their Second Amendment right to self-defense?]
I agree. If you violate my civil rights in this way, I will see you in court.
10:05 PM on 05/11/2011
and the websites you show are from a dude named Guy Smith.... he works for the Gun lobby and the NRA.. a little Biased dont you think... no wait... you let your gun do the thinkimg for you....
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Old Jarhead
F-4. The triumph of thrust over aerodynamics
10:25 PM on 05/11/2011
Still having trouble with the reply button?

You said websites, plural? I have no idea who Guy Smith is, I didn't see his name on any of the links I offered, and you are starting to sound quite desperate. The projection you see is phenomenal. Why don't we put this one to bed, and just part knowing we will never agree. I believe it is useless to try to calmly enhance your education.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and retired military combat vet
10:33 PM on 05/11/2011
Please use the "Reply" button instead of constantly playing "Top Of The Pile".
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02:52 AM on 05/12/2011
Good advice, "Odins". The poster is evidently unaware that the "Top Of The Pile" on any Huffington Post gun thread is reserved either for protracted examinations of firearms terminology or for threadbare, feeble-minded satire.
10:00 PM on 05/11/2011
why is that tripe and your website stats gospel... just like a texas coconut... if thing dont go your way, you wave a gun at it till it does... i weep for the future....
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Old Jarhead
F-4. The triumph of thrust over aerodynamics
10:12 PM on 05/11/2011
Didn't even look at the websites I linked, did you? Maybe that tripe, because they have a vested interest in gun control and banning. Notice of the 3 I posted, one shows the conviction rates of TX CHL holders, published by the state. The second is a compilation of FBI statistics since 1960 to 2009, and only the 3rd could be classed as a partisan site. I feel sorry for you if you are feeling threatened on an anonymous internet site, but that happens when posters are youngsters. Does your Mom know your posting to this site?

By the way, at the bottom left side of my reply to you is a button that says "REPLY". You can click on that and keep you're comments in one thread instead of going all over the place.
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enlightened45
06:42 PM on 05/12/2011
Speaking of "by the way", when can I expect some answers to my questions proffered earlier this week...sometime this decade?