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U.S., China Military Talks Stumble Over Taiwan Arms Sales, China's Military Build-up

Mullenchen

First Posted: 05/18/11 08:24 PM ET Updated: 07/18/11 06:12 AM ET

WASHINGTON -- New talks this week between American and Chinese military leaders got stuck on the issue of Taiwan, the same problem that torpedoed U.S.-China military cooperation last year.

Growing American concern about China’s military build-up, cyberwar attacks, aggressive maneuvers in the South China Sea and Chinese complaints about U.S. spy-planes monitoring its coastline were all topics left unaddressed after the first high-level Chinese military visit in seven years.

Following two days of discussions at the Pentagon and elsewhere in Washington, Gen. Chen Bingde, chief of the Chinese general staff, and Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, expressed hope for continued dialog and cooperation while acknowledging the deep disagreements between the two powers.

"We spent the bulk of our time trying to understand the security environment from one another’s perspective, and trying to gain a better sense of the common interests we share," Mullen said at a joint press briefing Wednesday. "We can’t afford to wait until we are in a crisis before we start to understand each other."

For his part, Chen, a 69-year-old hardliner whose career began in 1961 as a common enlisted soldier, said in a speech at the National Defense University in Washington that "it is natural and necessary for the two militaries to work together toward a peaceful and stable landscape." He vowed to "push forward" with a U.S.-China military dialog.

But beneath the beaming smiles and photo-op bonhomie, the issue of Taiwan loomed large. At immediate issue: the prospective sale of U.S. F-16C/D fighters to Taiwan, an action that aroused unusual Chinese fury.

"Taiwan is part of Chinese territory," Chen declared. "Why would it need U.S. weapons sales to guarantee its security?"

He explained away China’s own surging build-up of sophisticated military capability -- a major and growing U.S. concern -- as "mainly targeted at separatist forces who have attempted to split Taiwan away from China."

Having had a good look at U.S. military capabilities during his Washington briefings, Chen added coyly, "I am surprised at the sophistication of the U.S. military … China does not have the capability to challenge the United States."

"This kind of candor is crucial for any good relationship," Mullen said. But he showed no sign of easing the tension over Taiwan. “I certainly share the view of peaceful reunification of China," he said, but added that in the meantime, the Taiwan Relations Act of 1979 remains in effect, requiring Taiwan to be treated as any other sovereign foreign country.

"We will continue to follow the law until such time as that changes," Mullen said, noting that he is unaware of any effort to change the law.

"We have realistic expectations about our ability to solve these issues this week," he added.

China’s extreme sensitivity to Taiwan became evident a year ago, when the nation abruptly canceled military dialogue with the United States after the Obama administration announced plans to sell $6.4 billion worth of arms to Taiwan, including Patriot air defense missiles and Blackhawk helicopters. Since then, Taiwanese officials have expressed a strong interest in acquiring the F-16 fighters, but there has been no official request.

Perhaps mindful of such potential explosions, Mullen and Chen carefully skirted the issue when asked if the sale of F-16s to Taiwan would again derail U.S.-China military talks. It would depend, each said, on the size and scope of the proposed sale.

Nevertheless, U.S. and Chinese officials agreed this week on a number of small joint steps they hope will carry the two nations beyond the Taiwan issue. Such measures include a counter-piracy exercise and a joint humanitarian assistance and disaster relief exercise.

These and other minor forms of cooperation will take place against large and deepening strategic concerns. Senior American analysts worry that China seeks to hold at-risk U.S. warships and military facilities in the South China Sea, where more than a third of the world’s sea-borne cargo transits, and in neighboring island chains and straits.

Underscoring those concerns is China’s development of high-tech weaponry, including the Dong Feng 21D, an advanced long-range ballistic said to be capable of attacking American aircraft carriers long before they are in striking range of the Chinese coast. A senior Navy intelligence officer, Vice Adm. David Dorsett, said earlier this year the missile is designed to hunt down and strike a maneuvering target, such as an aircraft carrier.

But when asked directly if the Dong Feng threatens carriers, the main instruments of asserting American power in the region, Dorsett said, "That’s something I’d prefer not to talk about."

China is also developing a stealth fighter that could challenge the best new U.S. fighter, the F-22. U.S. officials have said the Pentagon "underestimated" the speed at which high-tech weapons are being developed and deployed by China, which had been known for fielding shoddy knock-offs of clunky Soviet aircraft, missiles and warships.

At present, China is finishing refitting an old Russian aircraft carrier that it expects to put to sea for trials later this year. Defense analysts have said they expect China will test the ship as a precursor to a class of new Chinese carriers to be built in the future.

Chen set off Wednesday evening on a tour of U.S. military facilities, including Nellis Air Force Base just outside Las Vegas and the Army’s National Military Training Center at Fort Irwin, Calif. The planned itinerary infuriated Congressional conservatives, with Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-Fl.) charging Chen's visit amounts to little more than a sophisticated spy mission.

"There can be no doubt that every scrap of information this expert delegation collects will be used against us," Ros-Lehtinen, chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said in a statement.

"The Chinese military openly regards the United States as an enemy," she added. "We should not undermine our own security by thinking we can make friends with self-proclaimed adversaries with hospitality and open arms."

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02:12 PM on 06/06/2011
While I wish that their will never be a World War III, I am not so naive. It is in the United States best interest to consider the closing gap between China's and our military capabilities. The longer we wait the better chance China has of beating the U.S. in a war.

I know I sound extreme and I am not advocating declaring war on China. There does have some issues that may concern China such as the U.S. engaging in War against certain other countries which may bring China into battle against us. While these countries pose a very real threat to our allies they should not be taken lightly for they have much power and ability to do great harm to our allies. If after being proactive against said countries as a defense, China wishes to engage our allies or the U.S. then it is better that this happens sooner than later. The Chinese economy is growing and their investment in Military is growing much more so than ours or our allies.

I take no shame in admitting that I have read the bible and believe it's word from the book of Daniel when it says: "There will be a great War". I believe this is world war III.

Love,

Daniel
10:56 PM on 06/16/2011
China is aware that US has 4,000+ nuclear bombs, and they have just 200. So don't worry. I don't think they(China) have the guts to get war with US. If the war happens(for example), US has more capabiliti­es to drop the bomb in Chinese territory. Though China's closed allied is North Korea but US has more allies in asia like Japan, South Korea, Israel, Philippine­s, Vietnam, Taiwan, New Zealand and Australia. If ever Iran and Russia will help China and N.Korea, I'm sure Canada and most of European (UK, Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Norway, Portugal, Sweden and etc..) nations will support the US.
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Gathled
I am an extreme moderate...
08:25 AM on 05/19/2011
Oh, we probably won't have a lot of mainland Chinese on here defending their side of the story...BECAUSE...THIS site is probably blocked in their country...lolz
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checkmoot
We have met the enemy and he is us.
08:00 AM on 05/19/2011
Let's save a few billion dollars by having our fleet patrol the Gulf of Mexico and let the Chinese navy patrol the South China Sea ? Seriously, as far as I can tell, all of the Chinese military buildup is in response to our military forces in striking distance of their country. If we don't intend to attack them, then we have nothing to worry about. As of now, they are the ones who have to worry about us.
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MichaelTurton
11:00 AM on 05/19/2011
This is incorrect. The Chinese themselves have said, repeatedly, it is aimed at annexing Taiwan. The mix of capabilities they are acquiring also suggests that they aim their military in the direction of their expansionist plans into the South China Sea, and at Japan as well, since they claim Japanese territory too.

The fact that US foreign policy is often evil and self-serving does not mean that other nations are the same, or worse.
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checkmoot
We have met the enemy and he is us.
12:13 PM on 05/19/2011
And the fact that we have military assets pretty much all around the area shows that our expansionist plans are already in place. I'll worry about China when I look out my window and see a Chinese carrier cruising along the beach. As far as Taiwan is concerned ? That should be none of our business. The Chinese didn't interfere when we invaded Iraq, did they ?
07:13 AM on 05/19/2011
As a Chinese I feel very sad that I was born in China!
06:15 AM on 05/19/2011
Whether Taiwan is part of China is subject to an endless amount of debate. Some people in Taiwan itself even claim that Taiwan is part of the USA as a military administered area. The point is that Taiwan has a strong, democratic culture which protects the rights of it's citizens. Freedom of speech, religion, and the right for peaceful assembly are guaranteed by the Taiwanese government. As we all know, this is not true on the Mainland were these core values are constantly denied to its citizens - most recently demonstrated by detaining high-profile people as the Nobel Peace Price recipient, Liu Xiao-bao, and world-renowned artist Ai Wei-wei. As such, we as Americans (and hopefully others in the free world) have a duty to help protect this government that shares all the core values as we do, no matter the cost. Perhaps in the future, China can learn from Taiwan what a true Chinese democracy will look like. IMHO, the TRA (Taiwan Relations Act) should be adhered to until these two governments can work out a peaceful relationship with each other.
07:13 AM on 05/19/2011
I totally agree with you.
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prastagus
07:23 PM on 05/20/2011
And yet they also see the fallacy of democray in Taiwan too, with bullets winning election, vote buying, etc.. No wonder PRC moving slowly toward democracy because they do have 1.3+ billion people to manage instead of 23 million.
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spytheweb
Black Democrat
06:06 AM on 05/19/2011
The US better start to treat Pakistan better or the Chinese will move in and become a better allie to them.
Here's a story about China you won't see in any US newspapers:

"China will hand over 50 multi-role combat aircraft to Pakistan, it was reported here Thursday.

Pakistan will get the 50 JF-17 Thunder aircraft 'in weeks', Dawn quoted an official as saying in Beijing where Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani is on a four-day trip that takes places shortly after Osama bin Laden was killed by US commandos in Abbottabad on May 2.

The official said Pakistan and China were jointly producing the JF-17 aircraft, but the 50 fighter jets would have more sophisticated avionics.

He said the aircraft would be fully funded by China and it would help bolster Pakistan's defence and add to the tactical capability of the Pakistan Air Force."

http://www.asiapacificnews.net/story/784512
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tainoaz
03:49 AM on 05/19/2011
We better find ways to cozy up to China. There is no way we are preventing Pakistan from going full Islamic Fundamentalist over the next decade. Specially as we continue to disrespect, subvert, manipulate Muslim countries at the same time that we Enable/Fund the Zionist State of Israel.
End of Story.
05:09 AM on 05/19/2011
Israle is the most important factor in keeping Middle East in chaos and thus keeping US force invovled. Subsequently it allows the continuation of the petro-dollar to exist and dominate the world economy.

It is all inter-related.

Israle is very imporant, contrary to some who claim otherwise.
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Cory111
Life is truly good...
08:09 AM on 05/19/2011
Tell me Mike, how is Israel important to the U.S. with regards to our security? I’m all for Israel defending its self and truth be told for its size it is probably the most heavily armed country in the world.

Israel is quite capable of defending it’s self and does not need our support. This is just another ploy to keep the “War Toy’s” companies in business.

Today, China has just replaced, “The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming” and many buy into it.
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12:22 PM on 05/20/2011
That's a stretch Mike.
01:47 AM on 05/19/2011
China will continue with its military build up and probably export the J-20 as well. We need to build more F-22s and F-35s, our planes are getting very old and dated. China is also about to launch their first carrier and I ponder just what they have in mind for a fleet of Carriers except to protect their rights to the flow of mid east oil. Though no threat right now, in 10 years we may be faced with a challenge.
05:08 AM on 05/19/2011
F22 is known for its problems and troubles of maintenance. F35 is a weakling.

J20 ... we don't know yet ...
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Cory111
Life is truly good...
08:14 AM on 05/19/2011
You posted: Though no threat right now, in 10 years we may be faced with a challenge.

There is one good reason for us to become less dependent on imported oil. Let them have all the oil they want, we will have plenty after we "Green Up" our country.

But trying to achieve this is difficult because of our military and those that manufacture weapons, they need China to be seen as a daily threat...it's gives them job security.
01:13 AM on 05/19/2011
Great. Stupid decisions we made in WWII continue to haunt. Taiwan is part of China. Get over it.
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Georgious Bushus
04:46 AM on 05/19/2011
of course it is part of china, but part of what kind of china, communist and undemocratic and without us investments, no no
05:06 AM on 05/19/2011
It is not for you to decide. The Chinese have to duke it out.
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MichaelTurton
06:02 AM on 05/19/2011
Taiwan was never part of any Chinese emperor's domain. The Manchus colonized the island and controlled it in part. It was always considered to lie outside China for all of Chinese history down to the 20th century. The idea that "Taiwan is part of China' is strictly a piece of pro-Beijing propaganda whose pedigree is post-WWII, when smart Chinese leaders realized they could con gullible westerners into handing over the island. Fortunately the US determined this was a bad idea, and today Taiwan is a vibrant democracy with a strong economy, which does not want to be annexed to China.

Michael Turton
The View from Taiwan
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taiwanjohn
10:50 AM on 05/19/2011
The "One China" meme was also favored by the KMT regime in Taiwan, since it supported their claim to be the rightful rulers of the mainland. And as you know, the truth about Taiwan's history was scrubbed from school books in those days. Even today, a lot of Taiwanese people still believe that Taiwan was "a part of China" since ancient times, and they are genuinely surprised when I explain all the reasons why we know this isn't so.
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Cory111
Life is truly good...
01:54 PM on 05/19/2011
You posted: The US has no military presence in Taiwan.

I'd say if we are arming them with weapons we have a presence.

With regards to my being there, I'm retired Mike.
12:29 AM on 05/19/2011
O promised full transparency. Guess we got it now. I wouldn't let the b@$tards anywhere near one of our military facilities. But, then, I'm old school. I've seen what the Red Army can do. The college professor and commnity organizer hasn't.
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07:45 AM on 05/19/2011
Unless you are a Korean War vet you have no idea what the Red Army can do but we have always had military exchange programs with our adversaries. This is nothing new. We used to have what was called "The Million Dollar Mintue" shows of strength to foriegn officers in Camp Roberts in California. We had facility tours on other bases. We just don't take them to White Sands or missile launch facilities but they are as aware of what we can do as they are us.
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Cory111
Life is truly good...
08:21 AM on 05/19/2011
Good grief are you still fighting the "Red Army?"

Obama is going to be your president for many years to come...

You posted: The college professor and community organizer hasn't.

Why don't you tell us about all of your achievements within your community and show us a few college degrees while you are at it.

I’m a Vet, USNMCB “3” San Diego and Okinawa. FUBAR
12:42 AM on 05/21/2011
Fighting Seabees I see. Ever been to the BIOT? I have. I had pals in the USNCB at Gulfport. Welcome home, my friend!
12:04 AM on 05/19/2011
The ROC constitution still includes governing all of China---including Tibet.
The ROC is the loser and the PRC is the winner. There is no reason for the US
to be involved. The KMT is worried because without the US they have no leverage to negotiate.

Ron Paul is right----get out, and get out everywhere. None of this is our business.

And don't forget when Taiwan says they share the same values as the Western democracies ask why 37 years of martial law. It's all a bunch of bull!!
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Georgious Bushus
04:50 AM on 05/19/2011
Ron Paul is great to start III WW, if us army goes back to usa, u will III WW in one month, germany trying to annex north croatia, italy taking istria part of croatia, in bosnia serbs fighting muslims, calling russians, turks going to help albania and kosovo, armenia, azerbadijan, saudi-iran- pakistan- china.-. india blah blah blah, and at end u will some dictator like hitler and pearl harbor - Ron Paul 2012 ha ha ha ha
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MichaelTurton
06:21 AM on 05/19/2011
Greg, the martial law era was imposed by the retreating Nationalists, who claimed the island was part of China and suppressed democracy and independence supporters. Now that era of martial law is ended, democracy has slowly blossomed, and the old martial law era values are receding into history, except among the elites of the former ruling party, the KMT. Taiwan is in its current fix because the US put it there, and it deserves our support for a variety of reasons. I hope Huffpost will permit me to blog on it here.....

Michael
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07:53 AM on 05/19/2011
I hope you do Michael because I will be the first to read it. Looking forward but you will have to do some convincing to get me to agree that the U.S. put Taiwan in its current state.
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RudyHaugeneder
11:23 PM on 05/18/2011
The Chinese have learned military wisdom. It is best to spend a dime well rather than waste billions on military hardware when the cyber-weapons everybody is developing, including Israel and probably even Iran, can disable super-expensive warplanes, submarines, aircraft carriers, attack satellites and nuclear missiles even before a physical shot is fired.
And if that fails, there are the bio and chemical weapons the war laboratories are creating to wipe out soldiers and civilians by the hundreds of millions.
Ah, nothing like developing real super weapons for the cost of a handful of stealth bombers that would fall uselessly out of skies in the event somebody is stupid enough to launch another world war.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of stupid generals and politicians inhabiting the halls of power.
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08:04 AM on 05/19/2011
The Chinese are spending a few dimes of thier own. They weapons they just developed are not inexpensive. A stealth fighter costs quite a bit. A ballistic missile that can track a carrier does not cost pennies and they both work off of computers so cyber -weapons will be just as disruptive. Anything above a grunt with his rifle uses computer technology. Cyber-weaponry is a well placed investment. David and his sling shot would be no match for Goliath and a cruise missile.
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Sibil
Fringe Left is no better then Fringe Right
11:11 PM on 05/18/2011
So does the person with more multi-colored unidentifiable checks on his chest have more credibility or is it the gold braid that reigns supreme???
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zlohcuc
"Serving millions from atop the Allegheny"
10:44 PM on 05/18/2011
Cute unis though..stylin'....
10:38 PM on 05/18/2011
I don't like how we gave the Chinese General (I think is one anyway) a tour of our places. I know they wouldn't do the same thing for us
11:17 PM on 05/18/2011
When Gates was in China, the Chinese gave him the tour of headquarter of the regiment responsible for China's strategic missiles. In addition, he got a presentation for the J-20, the Chinese stealth jet fighter program.

It is a show of "friendship" and "muscles" between these two top brass groups. Take it easy.