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New York's Teacher Disciplinary Process Debated

Dennis Walcott

First Posted: 05/24/11 03:24 PM ET Updated: 07/24/11 06:12 AM ET

NEW YORK -- A state Senate hearing in Albany on Monday explored ways to make the process for disciplining teachers suspected of incompetence or ethical errors less cumbersome and more consistent.

"I really haven't met anyone who thinks it's going swimmingly," said state Sen. John Flanagan, who convened the hearing, according to GothamSchools. He said the process as it stands favors teachers, allowing them to resign quietly as hearings lag or as school districts choose not to formally press charges and risk spending thousands of dollars in litigation.

Monday's senate hearing focused on the state's 3020-a hearing, the process that requires districts to prove their case for terminating a tenured teacher. The 3020-a hearings, senators said, are too lengthy and expensive. As the Albany Times Union notes, such cases can cost the state up to $7 or $8 million per year. The arbitrators of these cases are now facing delays in payment because of the state's deficit.

Flanagan and fellow Republican state Sen. Stephen Saland noted that the process charges $217,000 per case to taxpayers.

That needs to change, according to Valerie Grey, the state Education Department's chief operating officer.

"If we don't do anything, the system has a chance of collapsing," Grey said. Outside of New York City, she noted, cases take two years to resolve.

The teachers union shot back by blaming the system's faults on the education department. Andrew Pallotta, executive vice president of New York State United Teachers, said the department takes up to two months to send out a roster of hearing officers.

At the hearing, officials pointed to New York City as a district that was able to turn around the lagging hearings. Until last summer, the city put hundreds of teachers awaiting hearings into so-called "rubber rooms," where they received their regular salaries to do non-classroom work. But Mayor Michael Bloomberg and the union worked to close the rubber rooms by getting arbitrators to work more days per week. This hastening of the hearings schedule reduced the backlog from about 700 cases to just 16 in four months.

State lawmakers praised New York City for its speedier disciplinary process, but the city's school chancellor Dennis Walcott said it still needed to be faster and fairer. For example, Walcott pointed to a case in which it took the city an entire year to fire a teacher convicted of manslaughter. He recommended putting the termination process into the hands of judges -- specifically, the city's Office of Administrative Trials and Hearings instead of arbitrators. That office has a full-time staff of lawyers and rules in similar cases against other city employees.

But the city's teachers' union isn't having any of it. Carol Gerstel, the chief counsel for the United Federation of Teachers, testified that the city's judges might not be impartial in ruling on teacher disciplinary cases.

"We think that a fair and expeditious process can be had using impartial arbitrators -- hearing officers -- as we are doing in the city right now," she said, according to GothamSchools.

Other critics of OATH say its judges are not equipped to deal with education. "In regular courts like OATH, judges don't know or understand the rubric or what is appropriate in the classroom," said Steve Landis, a labor employment and education attorney and chair of the New York County Lawyers' Association education law committee. "Education is different because you're dealing with students and a squishy issue of competence that is not readily identifiable by a test or a graph or a number."

Julie Cavanagh, a public-school teacher in Red Hook, Brooklyn, and a member of the Grassroots Education Movement, said a move toward OATH hearings would be a mistake.

"To assume that the disciplinary hearings of teachers are straightforward and the same as a firefighter's is a mistake that I think could be very costly in terms of protection for teachers and students," she said.

Dan Weisberg said switching to OATH is important, but noted it would be just one step in overhauling the disciplinary process. Weisberg was formerly the NYC Department of Education's chief executive of labor policy and implementation and now works as vice president for policy at the New Teacher Project.

"One of the issues that you have with using arbitrators is that the arbitrators themselves depend on avoiding offending either party for their livelihood," he said. "Asking them to make tough calls on termination is problematic."

Teachers find themselves at the center of a national debate about the country's education system, as more and more states pass laws that drastically change the way they can be hired and fired. While job security for teachers was traditionally pegged to years of experience, new laws are taking student test scores into consideration.

New York's discussion of teacher discipline comes one week after the state's Board of Regents voted to adapt a new teacher evaluation system that requires districts to use standardized test scores to evaluate 40 percent of teacher review scores -- 20 percent from state tests, with the other 20 precent from either district or state tests.

New York City is working on developing new tests designed to evaluate teaching, according to The New York Times, funded by millions of dollars of Race to the Top grant money. The new evaluation scale replaces the binary grading system of "satisfactory" and "unsatisfactory" with a spectrum ranging from "ineffective" to "highly effective."

Critics say these moves encourage teaching to the test and encroach on students' learning time.

"Race to the Top really encouraged states to do this," said Linda Darling-Hammond, Charles E. Ducommun Professor of Education at Stanford University. "The only people who will make money off of this are people who manage data sets," she added. She also stressed a need for new tests that would measure teacher growth.

This story has been updated to include comment from Steve Landis, Julie Cavanagh and Dan Weisberg.

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NEW YORK -- A state Senate hearing in Albany on Monday explored ways to make the process for disciplining teachers suspected of incompetence or ethical errors less cumbersome and more consistent. ...
NEW YORK -- A state Senate hearing in Albany on Monday explored ways to make the process for disciplining teachers suspected of incompetence or ethical errors less cumbersome and more consistent. ...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ariel Bonzai
Naked is the best disguise.
04:22 PM on 05/29/2011
This the sort of journalism we need This writer is called blogger as are some of the most eloquent and objective education editorialsts that bring me to HP and the discourse it provokes what troubles me is the lack of investigation the state and federal government should be aware of the abuses of money, power, public trust and people these educrats get away with! We are housed for being whistle blowers, political enemies of petty punitive principals, have workplace injuries, and because we are making too much money, know our stuff and rabble rouse as advocates for students Can somebody call Geraldo? We need to get the truth to people before this intellectual holocaust creates the futile system that facilitates Plutocracy rather than Democracy Please help us be heard! Www.perdaily.com
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Dahveed1
Rational discussion is the basis of a democracy.
02:58 PM on 05/29/2011
The problem in public education is the top-weighted staff. We have far more staff than teachers. My daughter goes to a private school and there are very few employees that do not interface with students on a daily basis, most of them are in the class room. The principals are teachers that in addition to their teaching duties also act as principal. My son goes to a public school and its a very different story. I guess that's the reason the private schools can pay less and still attract the good teachers.
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JusdaTruth
a proud child of the 60's
07:43 PM on 06/03/2011
Private schools attract good teachers because there are some teachers that can't or dislike the fact that public schools have to take any student that shows up at their door. Many have behavior and other learning problems. Then they are put in overcrowded classrooms which hurts the performance of the better behaved and higher functioning students in the class as well as students with the behavior problems. Also public schools cannot expel students with the freedom private schools can. The truth in my opinion is that the vast majority of public school teachers are equal if not superior in ability to private school teachers because they have so many impediments to learning that are built into many public school systems due to years of neglect etc.
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Dahveed1
Rational discussion is the basis of a democracy.
11:47 PM on 06/03/2011
I agree with most of your comment. I know as a parent the bureaucratic BS I have to deal with in public schools must be 1/2 as much as the teachers have to deal with. One result of having a large staff is there is lots of forms to fill in and endless memos to read and meetings to attend. While all of this is well intentioned, it distracts the teachers from what they're actually supposed to do - teaching.

Private schools also have more common sense built into them. If a public school elementary kid brings his great grandfathers pen knife to school for show and tell, he's automatically treated as if he had brought his great grandfathers gun to school to kill people. He's likely suspended and sent to the alternative school. Private schools seem to have enough common sense not to over react like this.

It really irritates me that during these budgetary times, school districts are firing teachers. What is really needed, IMHO, is to trim the staffs and eliminate some of the functions they perform.
09:52 AM on 05/26/2011
I can't get hired let alone fired! I haven't been disciplined nor have I had poor performance reviews. I taught second language learners in a high poverty school and had a bully for a principal for ONE academic year. I have been black listed and cannot get a job despite excellent references from all other educational instutitions I worked for. The union didn't help, the HR dept. didn't help, even a cease and desist letter has not stopped her from trashing my reputation. There are many more problems in the educational system than NCLB, funding cuts and the end of tenure!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ariel Bonzai
Naked is the best disguise.
02:38 PM on 05/29/2011
Chris I am an activist and advocate and victim just likev you My career has been derailed because i refuse to be comllicit in white chalk crime. we need you , please contact Lenny at www.perdaily.com We have resources and will tell your story We have to stop these bullies I am building momentum for CBA mutiny and legal action to restore your career and set things straight in schools We are so much less without each other look into Ed codes etc to find a violation if you think you want to keep your job I can walk you through the rubber room paradigms
02:16 PM on 05/25/2011
LAUSD spends 80 percent or $5.2 Billion of the $6.5 billion K-12 education operating budget on its employees.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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SuperDW
Ask not what your country can do for you but WTF?
03:32 PM on 05/25/2011
Is it the 80% or the $5.2 billion that you want us to pay attention to?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ariel Bonzai
Naked is the best disguise.
02:53 PM on 05/29/2011
Why don't we demand NAKED budget instead of "transparent"? Enough I enough! The legal waste alone is criminal as the abusive process to protect bullies and avoid liability for workplace injuries why does the public accept LAUSD expense like Ethics office with kickbacks, conflict of interest and toxic school sites populated by disposable working poor Hispanics and damages deferred to their future These scandals reflect the real problem in our system; these overpaid, unnecessary and lawless educRAT$ are corrupt , incompetent and criminal So please set us free and join the crusade www,perdaily.com We need to look at options and take legal support since the union uses our dues to serve political and careerist agenda instead of education
01:26 PM on 05/25/2011
New York is at about the top when it comes to bad apples. These teachers get union protection and full pay and never end up being punished.
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12:53 PM on 05/25/2011
Here's a way to streamline the process. Call the teacher into your office - say "you're fired."
01:26 PM on 05/25/2011
Bravo.
02:14 PM on 05/25/2011
Exactly
12:03 PM on 05/25/2011
The next step in the war on pedagogy involves fallacious evaluations! What a hoax! NYC is planning to use the Race to the TOP money to develop more student tests to determine the performance of teachers! *"Tests for Pupils, But the Grades Go to Teachers" By SHARON OTTERMAN in The NY Times (May 24, 2011) Data from such tests is quantitative analysis not qualitative analysis. The average citizen has no idea that these tests are bogus tools.

I just wrote an importatn essay (about this latest tactic in the war against teachers), students called "Bamboozled" for OpED news. http://www.opednews.com/articles/BAMBOOZLE-THEM-where-tea-by-Susan-Lee-Schwartz-110524-511.html

My students HAD the highest scores in city literacy exams and were accepted at top high schools. I was four times in "Who's Who Among America''s Teachers." My pracitce was a chosen as a chort for the New Standards research and vetted agaist real criteria for Lerning. My story shows that no credentials or successful performance prevents the lawless administration from victimizing teachers.
My story is the story of THOUSANDS OF WONDERFUL TEACHERS! It is a national tragedy, and a heinous crime to do this to caregivers who happen to be educated professionals. This hidden process has left wonderful people traumatized, and even you, Joy, talk about the financial effect rather than the personal effect. The truth is that no genuine evaluation of a really competent teacher matters when the principal says ,"Get out!"
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ariel Bonzai
Naked is the best disguise.
02:58 PM on 05/29/2011
Come to www.perdaily.com we need to join forces All the sites are available there ; please join us and lend your voice to a chorus of truth Together we can save our schools!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ariel Bonzai
Naked is the best disguise.
04:47 PM on 05/29/2011
I am a teacher now housed a year This is how I met Sue; she has helped me learn so much about the depravity of our school systems she is firey but her fury is righteous and her rhetoric is solid if you are in the discipline bind or exiled like me while the suits try to fabricate a viable excuse for the mobbing and abuse of process or falsely accused or maybe guilty of something benign as so many are Sue can help you get your head on right she rocks
11:34 AM on 05/25/2011
Doctors do not practice doctoring. They practice medicine.
Lawyers do not practice lawyering.
TEACHERS, HOWEVER PRACTICE 'TEACHING!

Medicine and law are complex. Pedagogy is the practice that underlies how the BRAIN ACTUALLY LEARNS -- how emergent learners acquire skills -- is also complex, which is why practitioners go to college and why in order to practice, they must pass genuine performance assessments. Teachers are PRACTITIONERS of profession -- one that requires more than training. It is not a mere 'job,' which is why it requires two college degrees and a license to practice!

That is why it is so hard to access competence, and so easy to malign a practitioner. The public needs the experts who understand the PROFESSIONAL PRACTICE, to do what they cannot!This, is the weak link that has allowed the commentariat in the media, the self-styled pundits, to denounce teachers so that they can be subjected to a great injustice.

The conversation is being framed by people who want the schools to fail so they can be privatized. Repeatedly describing this profession as 'teaching' was the first step in diminishing the 'teacher's' voice AS A PRACTITIONER OF A PROFESSION THAT REQUIRES KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERTISE BEYOND ORDINARY JOBS .
Schools failed when the talented, educated, experienced practitioners of pedagogy were removed! .The public is fed the word 'teaching' and inundated with stories about those 'bad and incompetent teachers. They make the failure of the schools all about TEACHING. Schools are about learning, and this needs support by administration
11:21 AM on 05/25/2011
The real fiasco of this 'disciplinary' process is not the financial burden. It is the trauma that it has caused to thousands of wonderful teachers removed from their classrooms with no access to due process, and thrown into literal detention centers, where they linger for months and years. The evaluation process is the key, because a principal gets to invent the criteria for incompetence.It takes months for charges to be leveled, and years before bogus hearings. JUSTICE under civil law does not exist, as people move on, and people move on and memory fades.

What has happened in America, is the collapse of the legal protections of due process that prevents slanderous lies and bogus evaluation to condemn Americans who just happen to be teachers. (my essay on perdaily.com at http://www.perdaily.com/2011/01/ordinary-people-who-believe-in.htm

Betsy Combier www.ParentsAdvocate.org has been chronicling this abuse in NYC where administrators have broken the law for so long they believe they are the law. "The NY Teacher" is filled with stories of chaotic principals that rule their schools like private fiefdoms

The abuse on a national scale is demonstrated at the NAPTA site
(www.endteacherAbuse.org) and in the book "White Chalk Crime," by the site's creator Karen Horwitz who experienced the process.. THAT is why teachers crawl silently into obscurity.
Come on, Joy, you know there is a war on tenure, and this is the core of the war on teachers.
11:09 AM on 05/25/2011
School districts try to fire "good" teachers all the time for political and economic reasons. Now we have an all out witch hunt. The union protects all teachers. If it is expensive then maybe the district should quit trying to fire teachers for arbitrary and capracious reasons.
01:28 PM on 05/25/2011
Unions have to go.
02:18 PM on 05/25/2011
Private sector unions are free to stay. Public sector unions need to be dismantled and dissolved immediately. They work for us. We are their collective boss. I am tired of paying for their incompetence.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Bryan Morris
11:07 AM on 05/25/2011
If a system of tenure didn't occasionally protect a bad teacher, the system of cronyism that would replace it would as well.

The fact is, in any field there will be a handful of bad employees. Whether its tenure, cronyism, nepotism, or payoffs that keep an ineffective person employed, there is no such thing as a perfect system. People need to understand this. There is no such thing as the perfect system, only the least imperfect.

Tenure may not be a perfect system, but take it away and open the doors to even worse systems that will not only fail to remove poor teachers, but will fail to protect the good ones from the hurricane of nepotism, cronyism, and political favoritism that will take it's place.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PolitiConservative
reasoned debate welcomed here
10:30 AM on 05/25/2011
Teachers unions: enemies of education.
08:41 AM on 05/25/2011
The first step towards speeding this process is to eliminate the law that requires teachers to be suspended WITH PAY. If they were dealt with like most regular people and suspended without pay they would most certainly be in favor of speeding the process. Once the outcome of the process is finalized then if a teacher is returned to the classroom they should receive 100% of all lost pay to make them whole. The incentive currently is to drag things out as long as possible in order to keep money and benefits flowing. Change that dynamic and this process would become very streamlined.
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Beckel411
Save a life - sponsor a shelter pet!
12:13 AM on 05/26/2011
You are kidding, right? The teachers are begging for quicker hearings. They don't have say about when the hearing will be and are not the ones slowing the process. Did you even read the article?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Peter007
08:41 AM on 05/25/2011
You have to decide.
Either public workers serve the public, or the public is there to support the public workers.
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Beckel411
Save a life - sponsor a shelter pet!
12:13 AM on 05/26/2011
Those aren't the only 2 choices.

But then you knew that.
07:40 AM on 05/25/2011
That's the Teacher's Union for you - that's why there are so many in the rubber room - I'd love a job where I got paid and healthcare and pensions for doing nothing.
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Beckel411
Save a life - sponsor a shelter pet!
12:15 AM on 05/26/2011
Get a job teaching in NYC if you think it's so great.

What is it with all these people whining and complaining? This is still a free country and people are completely free to get jobs as NYC teachers.