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Default By U.S. Government Seen As Possible, With Debt Ceiling Vote Delayed


First Posted: 05/27/11 02:52 PM ET Updated: 07/27/11 06:12 AM ET

As lawmakers in Washington delay authorizing additional public debt, investors are treating the prospect of a U.S. government default -- while still highly unlikely -- as growing in probability.

Even as traditional market indicators suggest the government's debt is as secure as ever, bets that the Treasury will default are becoming more popular. And foreign investors seem to be displaying skittishness about their holdings of Treasury debt. With Congress showing little progress on a deal to raise the debt ceiling, some economists say the possibility of a default by the Treasury, once unimaginable, has now become a factor in investment decisions.

"It's still extremely unlikely, but it is now something that can be talked about. That moves us into a different world," said Mark Vitner, a senior economist at Wells Fargo. "It was unthinkable not too long ago."

In the last couple months, investors have piled into bets that the Treasury will default. The cost of holding one-year credit default swaps on U.S. debt -- insurance that pays out if the government misses a debt payment -- has skyrocketed, more than tripling since the beginning of April, the Wall Street Journal reported this week.

Investors have been buying so much insurance on U.S. debt that the gross value of these derivatives is now twice what it was at this time last year, the Financial Times reported Thursday. Investors own $24 billion of these contracts as of last week, compared to last year's $12 billion, the FT noted.

"It's become a little more of a two-way market," said John Richards, head of North American strategy at Royal Bank of Scotland. "People are willing to play around a little bit more."

Nervousness apparently isn't limited to derivatives investors. Treasury securities held in custody at the Federal Reserve for foreign accounts this week experienced their biggest drop in four years, Zero Hedge noted Thursday. While the precise meaning of the drop isn't clear, it could suggest foreign powers are scaling back investment in the U.S. government.

"There's still a lot of uncertainty going around," said Gregory Daco, senior economist at IHS Global Insight. "The general view is that the government will manage to find a consensus to raise the debt ceiling, but there are always going to be some jitters in the market due to this uncertainty."

The federal government hit its debt ceiling this month, as the Treasury initiated a series of programs designed to keep the public debt below the limit and temporarily preserve the government's ability to borrow. But the Treasury can't tread water in this way forever, and come August 2, it could be forced to miss payments to creditors, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner wrote in a letter to Congress.

Top economic officials in the Obama administration and independent economists have repeatedly warned that a default could spread panic through credit markets worldwide, causing interest rates to rise and even setting off another financial crisis.

But lawmakers have delayed raising the limit. Republicans have said they will not vote to increase it unless the legislation is tied to measures intended to reduce the federal deficit. This seeming game of chicken, in which lawmakers threaten to push the government toward default just to win political concessions, has provoked consternation among government officials.

"It's a dangerous precedent," economist Jared Bernstein told The Huffington Post. Until he left the government for a think tank two weeks ago, Bernstein was Vice President Joe Biden's chief economist.

"What purpose is served by even entertaining the possibility of a default?" he added.

But if some investors are skittish, that isn't reflected in the Treasury bond data. Even as the popularity of one-year credit default swaps has been rising, yields on 10-year Treasury securities have been falling, suggesting this debt is perceived as a solid investment.

As of Thursday's close, the yield on 10-year Treasuries was less than 3.1 percent, compared to nearly 3.6 percent at the April peak and over 3.7 percent at the February peak, data from Bloomberg show. In general, Treasury yields have been falling this year, as the value of those investments has risen.

Economists emphasized that Treasury data is a better indicator of the probability of default than credit default swap data. The volume of activity in the CDS market for U.S. debt, for instance, is far less than in Treasury bond markets.

"I don't think this reflects widespread anxiety about the ability of the U.S. government to pay its debt," said Gus Faucher, director of macroeconomics at Moody's Analytics. "If it gets to another month or so and we haven't seen any progress, that's another issue."

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As lawmakers in Washington delay authorizing additional public debt, investors are treating the prospect of a U.S. government default -- while still highly unlikely -- as growing in probability. Ev...
As lawmakers in Washington delay authorizing additional public debt, investors are treating the prospect of a U.S. government default -- while still highly unlikely -- as growing in probability. Ev...
As lawmakers in Washington delay authorizing additional public debt, investors are treating the prospect of a U.S. government default -- while still highly unlikely -- as growing in probability. Ev...
As lawmakers in Washington delay authorizing additional public debt, investors are treating the prospect of a U.S. government default -- while still highly unlikely -- as growing in probability. Ev...
 
 
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03:50 PM on 07/06/2011
What every one should remember is that the powerfull lobby in the states is AARP, miss or delay one social secuity payment and no one with a job in D.C. will have one after the next election.
07:51 AM on 06/05/2011
If a default were to occur, so what?

Should we then just freak out? It is a game of finance and to sacrifice the progress of the last 10,000 years for a game is pretty Aztec, don't you think?

I promise you the debt is already really, really extreme. The default is nothing more than to mismanaged the nation. Republicans and Democrats and Wall Street have done this mismanagement for decades.

The sun will rise despite the debt and a possible default. The question is what are we going to do to fix the mismanagement?

A place to start would be to remove the bulk of both political parties. We could then move on to take the business licenses from many of the firms on Wall Street. We could then try and revive the economy restoring US jobs from China and Mexico.

We would seem to prefer utter ruin to doing something positive without a total disaster forcing our hand.

That is what the Aztecs and Mayans did. They just refused to see the change and maintained human sacrifice in the face of the Spanish invasion and local environmental ruin.

A default if it happens or not... even as a rumor is enough to get out the obsidian blades and start hacking away at the heart of the nation. Maybe just perhaps we could do something constructive instead. (Nah)

Only the US public can fix this not the "leaders", our leaders are who drove this bus into a ditch.
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tigereon
12:39 PM on 06/03/2011
Laid off teachers from Wisconsin, New Jersey and Florida offer to go to DC to teach the GOP about economics and the Great Depression.

Apparently teachers recently laid off by GOP Governors have become upset that the 10th grade students they taught know more about the effects of spending cuts on a recession then the elected officials of the Republican party. .... full article

http://thetop10.squarespace.com/the-politics-of-it-all/2011/6/3/laid-off-teachers-from-wisconsin-new-jersey-and-florida-offe.html
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gerald4
licensed mechanical and electrical engineer
07:54 PM on 05/31/2011
Business men including myself are greedy, but without these greedy individuals, businesses and corporations starting businesses and providing and/or risking their own wealth producing jobs for US citizens in order to (try to) create wealth for themselves, most US citizens would have to live off of the land or be beggars in the streets. Who else other than greedy individuals, businesses and corporations HAVE EVER HIRED any US citizens, other than some tax supported government bureaucracy?

Jobs created with taxes by local or Federal US government funds do not create wealth, but SKIM OFF or FORCIBABLY TAKE a portion of the wealth from those like myself who produced and/or created that wealth to pay the bureaucratic payrolls for various public services that the producers could perform for themselves.

Most of the permanent jobs in the USA are and were created by greedy individuals, partnerships, greedy corporations and other greedy private business entities in order to increase their own personal wealth through business profit. Those businessmen were greedy or they would not have created those businesses and those related jobs for US citizens.

The WWII GI Bill created many technically educated people in the USA that created the post WWII economic industrial expansion that gave the US citizens a wonderful lifestyle, until they created the EPA and other government laws that destroyed the US economy and destroyed the jobs for US citizens.
07:12 AM on 06/05/2011
Greed is good! The EPA destroyed jobs for US citizens?

I think you are ignoring the greedy corporations who like Red Chinese workers better than US workers. Perhaps you are ignoring the the greedy bankers on Wall Street who gamed the system to take the money you earned because they are too big to fail

There is good business and bad business and good government and bad government. There is good greed and bad greed. It is not an automatic proposition that all greed is good gerald4.
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gerald4
licensed mechanical and electrical engineer
11:15 AM on 06/06/2011
If business A uses Chinese workers, Chinese Electricity, Chinese environmental compliance costs, Chinese Taxes, Chinese payroll costs to manufacture product C, and if business B If business A uses US workers, US Electricity, US environmental compliance costs, US Taxes, US payroll costs to manufacture the identical product C, then the product C made by business B will cost many times as much as the identical product C made by business A, and then Business B will not have any sales, and business B will close and lay off all of its US employees or go bankrupt!
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gerald4
licensed mechanical and electrical engineer
07:17 PM on 05/31/2011
When foreigners in foreign industrialized nations stop buying freshly printed paper US Treasury Bonds (with the US dollars that US citizens paid them to manufacture our consumer items) to get some US dollars back from these industrial foreigners to pay bills created by our US government deficit spending, the US government will probably just buy some more paper and print more US dollars (faster and faster) to pay our rapidly increasing US government expenses, just like Mexico prints pesos to pay for their Mexican government expenses?

Every time that the USA prints and sells a bunch of fresh US Treasury Bonds and US dollars, the value and buying power of each existing printed US bond and US dollar reduces proportionately.

One US Dollar that would buy about 8 Mexican pesos in 1960 can now exchange for as much as 15,000 of the 1960 Mexican pesos today. This is equivalent to about 187,500% inflation over that period.

A $2.00 USA loaf of bread would then cost $3,750.00 today if the USA had implemented Mexican type economic monetary policies in the 1970's, and then $4,000.00 next week, and $5,000 the week after.

Every time that our US Treasury bonds come due, the US government can print and hand out that amount of freshly printed paper US Dollars to the bondholders.
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gerald4
licensed mechanical and electrical engineer
07:23 PM on 05/31/2011
When this happens, the US government will have destroyed the buying value of the US dollar, and it will diminishes to a tiny percentage of today's purchasing value related to other (industrialized nation's) currencies

The Chinese Yuan (or Renminbi) might be the "last man standing" with any value for use in international business transactions.

I forgot about the Indian Rupee, the Pakistani Rupee, or the Brazilian Real which will also have purchasing power after the US dollar purchasing power is destroyed with the US government deficit spending.

The value of the euro, yen and pound are also being destroyed by their respective government's deficit spending, anti-manufacturing and anti-wealth creation economic policies, just like the USA id destroying the purchasing power of the US dollar.
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gerald4
licensed mechanical and electrical engineer
07:47 PM on 05/31/2011
But then our children would have to re-industrialize and make the things that they need to sustain their lives.

Our children might have to repeal the EPA, Unemployment, Welfare, Social Security, SSI, Great Society, Free Trade ratifications and other laws that impede the re-industrialization of the USA. if our children do not want their children to starve to death.

The Chinese Yuan might be the "last man standing" with any value for use in US and/or international business transactions after the US dollar buying power is destroyed by the Federal Government Deficit spending.
07:24 AM on 06/05/2011
gerald4 if the Yuan is the last currency standing it's value comes from us buying Chinese products made by Chinese workers.

Repealing Social Security and the EPA and such will do nothing to correct that. We could print our dollar to death as you say. I agree with you about this totally. But there is no way out of this except to be pro-American and bring the jobs home from China and India and Guatemala and Mexico. This is not going to happen.

The US political leadership is sold out on globalization which is just a way to repeal environmental law and workers rights and get rid of democracy for greedy business interests. China is doing our polluting for us in another spot. Mexico is being ruined by outside forces added to their domestic problems. Should we then re-import the pollution and treat US workers like Mexican peasants?

I think that it would not hurt to have pro-American economic policy rather than a sell out to a flat earth policy that brings US citizens down to the level of Chinese slave labor. No?
08:45 AM on 07/13/2011
well, than after the re-industrialization you propose wealthy people will end with heads on pikes and with everything they have lost. I am not making it up. It happened before in France and Russia. what you propose is slavery.
Check Germany and northern European countries. They have industry and social safety net. I have relatives in Germany, while it is not a heaven they are sure more protected that Northern Americans. There is already practically no safety net here anyway. US troubles came form the fact that it was wasting wealth on military overseas projects for decades, ruining local manufacturing and under taxing wealthy men like yourself.
You should not forget that whatever had place in USA in regard to economic miracle happened only because you came to pristine land with huge unused resources. It is akin to inherit huge inheritance absolutely free. By now it is all squandered and hence miracle is over. Wealthy guys like you should understand it is for your own and your children benefit to share voluntary otherwise it will be done involuntary as it has happened many times in history.
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GuyCybershy
06:13 PM on 05/31/2011
"The Mainstream Media has completely failed to make sense of the global financial crisis. By "make sense" I mean a framework of interpretation that properly attributes responsibility to the causes and players and which explains the key dynamics in common language." http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-news-cycle-full-sound-and-fury-signifying-nothing
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gerald4
licensed mechanical and electrical engineer
07:35 PM on 05/31/2011
THE USA NO LONGER CREATES MUCH NEW WEALTH ! ! ! ! !

US citizens need to know that REAL WEALTH and the associated jobs to create wealth for others is created and/or acquired MAINLY when the members of a family (or a nation, city-state, island, tribe, etc.) plant, grow and/or harvest something of commercial value from the earth; extract something of commercial value from the earth; provide professional services (medical, legal, dental, engineering, architecture, accounting, land, surveying technology, etc.); collect payment for patent and copyright uses; manufactures or constructs something of commercial value that is consumable or permanently useful for rental income; and then trades, sells, leases or rents these items and/or services to parties outside of their family, in return for a net transfer of gold, currency or commodities from other parties outside of their family into their own family.

This accumulated real wealth is then available to be taxed in order to create funds to support the value of their currency, build schools, streets, water and sewer systems, repay sovereign national debts, spend for pork barrel projects, green projects, infrastructure projects, wars, streets, bridges, highways, welfare, unemployment, school teachers, policemen, fire fighters, and other government provided bureaucratic services for that family and also provide redeemable value for the printed currency that they issue.
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guveqzero
Inventor and Innovator
12:24 PM on 05/30/2011
A default means freedom for our children. It means the debt accumulated by the previous generation will no longer haunt us. With just a few words, all could be forgiven. The only pain will be the wealthy having to go back to real work, since they will no longer be scamming from the rest of us.
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Ylmaz Kaba
10:37 AM on 05/30/2011
I'm thinking it will happen because the Washington politician­s are using delaying tactics not to stop it but to suck up as much wealth and power for themselves and their rich friends before it happens.
http://news12.blog.ac/2011/05/30/default-by-u-s-government-seen-as-possible-with-debt-ceiling-vote-delayed/
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ran6110
Mac, iPhone & iPad developer.
10:05 AM on 05/30/2011
I'm thinking it will happen because the Washington politicians (both parties) are using delaying tactics not to stop it but to suck up as much wealth and power for themselves and their rich friends before it happens.

When a default happens they'll make all of the arrangement to protect themselves and their friends while tossing the rest of us under the bus...

Whey will this happen? Because we have too many people that actually believe the politicians and their lies.
03:22 AM on 05/30/2011
Let America default and the Saudis, Chinese and Japanese will go on a shopping spree here in America, and they won't be buying libraries either.

The govt will create a hyperinflation (which may start very modestly) to erode the value of the debt. in return, foreign holders of that debt will quickly dump their holdings for real assets in america to protect themselves. Watch out for a manufactured conflict in the next few months as the govt try to steer up nationalistic sentiments to the population to scare off foreign governments from doing the later. Only the strong will survive.
QuantProgrammer
Cap welfare benefits at two kids.
12:02 PM on 05/30/2011
Actually, if the federal government defaults, US treasuries will become worthless, but the Fed can buy them back by printing a much smaller amount of USD.
01:36 AM on 05/31/2011
How much is smaller amount if the debt is into trillions?

I think you got it all wrong. America will NOT OPENLY default on the debt (like Tim Geithner going on National TV and say, screw you all, we are not paying you!), that's not gonna happen. Whoever own that debt will get paid, sooner or later, but with hyperinflation (which will be created by printing a whole lot of $$), the value of their debt will be much less than before because the dollar will be worth a lot less. It's like screwing our creditors but pay them regardless, if that even makes sense to you.
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patters85
Obama the Capitalist!
02:26 AM on 05/30/2011
Who would listen to the same republican party that said that the 2008 economic melt down wouldn't be so bad. I guess it's not so bad if you have a guaranteed salary plus endless perks courtesy the lobby. But for the rest of us. We are screwed yet again. Thanks guys. Republicans actually have the balls to say that it wont be as bad as experts claim. News flash"IT'S BAD ENOUGH ALL READY...STUPID.
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Justan Olfrend
Liberal, Progressive, Independent, American
10:35 PM on 05/29/2011
Someone should snail mail the GOP a clue because I don't think Senator McConnell got the memo.
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jcaunter
Profile: schizoid, INTJ
10:35 PM on 05/29/2011
The US default is a certain fact, not a mere possibility. The only question is what manner of default will "our" politicians, such as Obama, perceive to be the most beneficial to their Wall Street golfing buddies.
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edayres
Comedian with a New Jersey attitude commenting on
10:00 PM on 05/29/2011
Completely irresponsible, juvenile behavior. Yes, we've never defaulted before, and we don't know what will happen. These jerks want to test it now, in weak recovery? Grow up!
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Sandman911
Self employed gun toting Bible thumper.
06:23 PM on 05/29/2011
Default is inevitable when progressives kick, scream and cry over a 10% cut in the $400 billion they increased in spending just last year. Let alone the $1.7 trillion we're over spending.
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Justan Olfrend
Liberal, Progressive, Independent, American
10:36 PM on 05/29/2011
Without that spending (which many did not like) we would have gone over the cliff. But don't let facts get in the way of an ideological argument.
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Sandman911
Self employed gun toting Bible thumper.
11:11 PM on 05/29/2011
No cliff, It's called "Manufactured Crisis". http://exposingliberallies.blogspot.com/2009/03/obama-and-the-cloward-piven-strategy-of.html