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Debt Ceiling Debate Hinges On Medicare: Can Democrats And Republicans Make A Deal?

Debt Ceiling Medicare

DAVID ESPO   06/ 5/11 03:41 PM ET   AP

WASHINGTON — The threat of a first-ever default by the federal government is pushing President Barack Obama and Republicans toward a sweeping agreement to cut government spending and increase the Treasury's borrowing authority. Yet a perennial partisan struggle over Medicare drives them apart.

Remarkably, the two sides seem determined to pursue both accord and discord simultaneously, sparing the still-wobbling economy from threatened calamity while preserving Medicare as a political issue in the 2012 elections.

"I'm willing. I'm ready. It is time to have the conversation" about deficit cuts and the debt limit, said House Speaker John Boehner, urging Obama to become personally involved. "It is time to play large ball, not small ball."

But a few days later, House Democratic leader Rep. Nancy Pelosi of California said, "I could never support any arrangement that reduced benefits for Medicare. Absolutely not," she told CBS' "Face The Nation," emphasizing a position she and other Democrats had laid out at their own meeting with Obama.

Given the sheer size of Medicare, nearly $500 billion a year, any deal on reducing future deficits is likely to include savings from the program, if not the benefit cuts many Democrats oppose.

But if any Republican thought that the White House and congressional Democrats might agree to even a temporary cease-fire on Medicare, they may want to reconsider.

Boehner, R-Ohio, and fellow House Republicans had scarcely left a White House meeting with Obama on Wednesday when presidential press secretary Jay Carney told reporters that Obama "doesn't believe that we need to end Medicare as we know it, to dismantle the program as it currently exists, in order to achieve significant deficit reduction."

Within seconds, he said the Republican plan for Medicare "puts too much of the burden of deficit reduction on the shoulders of seniors, of low- income children and the disabled. And the president just feels that that's unacceptable."

A few moments later, Carney hit a trifecta of sorts, calling the Republican plan "premium support or privatization or voucherization."

None of these can be considered terms of endearment, politically, particularly not by Republicans. They say their Medicare plan, developed by Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., is designed to save the program from bankruptcy and preserve it for future generations.

In the meeting the president hosted for rank-and-file Republicans, Ryan and Obama clashed.

The congressman told Obama it was not leadership to demagogue a good-faith attempt to save Medicare, when it is clear the program is headed for bankruptcy, according to several participants in the session.

Obama replied it wasn't leadership to shift billions in costs from the federal government to states and individuals who can't afford it.

Ryan responded that wasn't what his plan did, explained it in some detail and drew an ovation from fellow Republicans.

The plan retains Medicare in its present form for current beneficiaries and those age 55 and older.

For anyone younger, Medicare would consist of a government-mandated package of benefits, purchased on the open market from private insurers. Federal funds would help defray the costs for beneficiaries.

Polls and recent events such as the unexpected loss of a House seat in upstate New York and criticism from GOP president contender Newt Gingrich make clear that the Republican plan is not favorable political terrain for the party.

They are on far safer turf, they concede, when they stress that job creation is their top goal and spending cuts the surest way to achieve it.

Even some House Democrats who once talked of wanting to allow more government borrowing without taking steps to rein in future spending voted against legislation last week to do precisely that.

Republicans presented the bill as something Obama had asked for, but the House Democrats' second-in-command, Rep, Steny Hoyer of Maryland, called it a "demagogic vote" designed to render his rank and file vulnerable to campaign attack ads.

His comments underscore how much the Republicans have succeeded in casting the political debate since they were sworn into office in January and took control of the House.

If anything, the announcement from Moody's Investors Services that it might downgrade the U.S. debt, followed by a report showing an increase in unemployment, helped Republicans who are eager to put the Medicare debate aside.

"If we don't get our fiscal house in order, the markets will do it for us," Boehner said Friday.

Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner put it slightly differently after meeting with first-term House members, most of them Republicans who are determined to cut spending.

"I'm confident two things are going to happen this summer," he said. "One is we're going to avoid a default crisis, and we're going to reach agreement on our long-term fiscal plan."

___

EDITOR'S NOTE – David Espo covers Congress for The Associated Press.

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COMMUNITY PUNDITS
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Nonpartay 08:46 PM on 06/05/2011
They say their Medicare plan, developed by Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., is designed to save the program from bankruptcy and preserve it for future generations.

It's completely amazing to me how Republicans live in opposite world and are seemingly oblivious to this fact. What they're trying to do to Medicare is killing it for just those under 55 while saving it for those over 55.  Read More...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Dave Harpe
Was young, now old.
11:41 AM on 06/14/2011
Communists and terrorists could not have done a better job of dismantling our once great nation than these jokers have done. Our unions, education system, and other social programs were the bedrock and foundation which made our middle class and everything it has accomplished possible. As they continue to be eroded, we face the prospect of becoming a third world nation like Mexico. Most of this damage has been done by Republicans, but Democrats are not blameless.
08:45 PM on 06/08/2011
How quickly we (the people) forget! The current financial situation is the result of Reagonomics(i.e., deregulation & trickle down) and W's reducing taxes for the rich while conducting two wars on money borrowed from China. That's what the Republicans have done to this country. We (the people) need to wake up and vote the scoundrels out.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
VANDERGRAAFK
Teacher
05:47 PM on 06/07/2011
Two comments seem in order. First, the problem of a debt ceiling is unique to the particular form of American representative government. There is no obvious reason why the failure to pass an increase in the debt ceiling should lead to any catastrophe. What matters is the judgement of the bond market. To depoliticize increased expenditures, the American Congress turned to debt limits to make it less difficult to make expenditures that required at least a temporary borrowing of money. In other words, cash flows (tax receipts, etc.) don't always match up to expenditures. Unfortunately, the political divide and gridlock in this Congress have now politicized what was intended to be non-political.

Two: it has been obvious since the Reagan era that governments have been adding to the national debt on a non-temporary (or extraordinary basis). Whether it's a consequence of the politics of no tax increases ever and cut taxes always, government revenue does not match expenditures. Obama's pro forma no vote on raising the debt level during the Bush era was a protest against the Bushido policy of fighting wars without paying for them, while introducing new programs (Medicare Part D) and tax refunds (mostly) for the superrich and rich. Continuing along this path, whether the debt level is increased or not - is ultimately self-destructive and the bond markets will exact punishment.
yougg
just a citizen
07:53 AM on 06/07/2011
What is wrong with the Republicans? They are the party largely responsible for the deficit. How bad do they think that our memories are? Don't like Newt Gingrich at all-but he is right that what they are doing about Medicare/Medicaid will not serve them well. It is disappointing that neither party has addressed the financial regulation measures. Please everybody go out and vote in 2012. Show the legislators who is really in charge.
06:24 AM on 06/07/2011
What I think the problen is with Medicare is the rampent fraud that going on with everybody and their brother on disability. I understand their are people who are disabled my wife being one of them, she has M.S. BUT, there are so many with the back pain that isnt real the bipolar crap. I know I am going to catch a bunch of crap but if we could weed out the fraud in medicare it would become a 100 billion a year instead of 500 billion a year department. Just saying!
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vcrozas
One can still have an opinion...right?
09:00 AM on 06/07/2011
You are very right. I know someone who gets disability for being bi-polar, her boyfriend does too...he is certifiable because he is nutz and but she got the idea from him...She has a kids that is retarded and draws a check for him. There are many people who draw checks on their kids for ADHD, Autism, and a host of other disabilities...why do kids need checks?? It is not like the parents are using the added income to inhance the childs future. The handouts go to the people who know how to WORK the system and commit in essence FRAUD.
03:00 PM on 06/07/2011
I don't think "people drawing checks" is the real problem with the system. On th econtrary. People are massively underpaid compared to the investor class. that's the real problem. the National Debt has nothing to do with social services: it has to do with low taxation on the rich.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Dave Harpe
Was young, now old.
11:55 AM on 06/14/2011
Actually these new mental problems are very real, and caused by the thousands of chemicals in our environment, and our bodies, including our brains, that nature never intended to be there. Many of the new physical ailments are also caused by this. We are slowly poisoning ourselves and everything else that lives on this planet.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
RLaitres
No wise person will claim to be wise.
06:44 PM on 06/07/2011
Nice chat, but give us the specifics; i.e. put numbers on it. Then, you will have something to argue. All we get from most posters is "everybody knows" or "we all know" which, in most instances consists only of rampant speculation. Some of us see many things but, when we do, and we want to expound upon it, we first do some homework and or our own. Otherwise, we should call it what it is; i.e. gossip.
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eyeforeye42
Do the right thing for the right reason
05:38 AM on 06/07/2011
So long as whatever happens to medicare is the same program congress has for themselves, I'll live with it. If it is good enough for the people that work for us, it is good enough for us. Ask Boehner if the medicare plan replaces all the excessive care programs in congress too. If not, ask why not? Then tell him to back to the drawing board and make it inclusive but he'd better hurry if they plan to seek reelection
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
cruisedoc
Physician, centrist, independent (x-dem)
12:59 AM on 06/07/2011
As med gets more hi-tech, it gets more expensive - new procedures, drugs, and devices. The problem we'll confront is money, and it's coming. We will one day soon have the tech to make virtually everyone live much longer - at a huge cost. We will be able to make everyone 'the six million dollar man' - but we won't have $6 million per man. ...and that's the truth.
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68Namvet
Sioux, French, German, Jew, American mutt
11:28 AM on 06/07/2011
If your statement was true - why then, since we spend more than twice as much as any other industrialized country for health care, why then do we receive the 37th best care of the top 191 countries surveyed. And, with the 37th best care, we rank 72nd in overall health of the top 191 countries surveyed.

Seems like were not getting our money's worth and your analysis is incorrect
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
cruisedoc
Physician, centrist, independent (x-dem)
04:30 PM on 06/07/2011
1st, I your statement has little to do with my statement regarding the future of higher tech med, however, I'll address that briefly. I would have to see WHO is rating and WHAT they base it on. Hypothetico-deductive logic often leads to connect dots that cannot be connected. Next you must consider the source. If any way connected to the UN (W.H.O.), it has no credence. We have, in fact, the best HC in the world, as ALL my international colleagues agree. We do NOT have the healtiest population or the longest life span - which is often used incorrectly to reflect on our HC. Many factors affect this beyond quality of care and facilities - sedate life-style, horrible diet, epidemic obesity, and the fact we kill so many of us because we have far more roads and cars. Every doc, in every country, that I know would opt to come to the US for complex surgery - that's the bottom line.
12:35 AM on 06/07/2011
I wonder how much "bribe money" Boehner and his Republican/Tea Party cohorts are receiving from big insurance" to pull this one off?
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cruisedoc
Physician, centrist, independent (x-dem)
12:46 AM on 06/07/2011
You can't be serious?
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markie G
...all 6's, 7's + 9's
02:00 AM on 06/07/2011
absolutely
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markie G
...all 6's, 7's + 9's
02:03 AM on 06/07/2011
and you cant possibly be a doctor
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Wesley Holbrook
Retired-Marine
11:07 PM on 06/06/2011
Drop those taxcuts for the rich. They haven't exactly produced too many jobs. Invite the rich to move offshore where their tax havens are...in offshore banks. Listne to hell with the rich, or at least, most of them. So says Jesus: "Hardly a rich man shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven." That leaves only hell remaining for them...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
cruisedoc
Physician, centrist, independent (x-dem)
12:48 AM on 06/07/2011
Their money belongs to them. "Thou shalt not covet anything that belongs to thy neighbor." --God
08:54 AM on 06/07/2011
Nonsense. The real problem here is that Republicans, who ran up the debt in the first place, now want to pass the blame off onto those who didn't cause it and who can least afford to pay for Republican extremists' mistakes. Everyone who works pays taxes into Medicare and Social Security. It's not some kind of giveaway "entitlement," as Tea Party thugs, who have taken over the Republican Party, try to portray it. WE paid into it and we deserve, no, we have a right, to get what we paid for. I believe the Bible, if you believe in that sort of thing, said "render unto Ceasar that which belongs to Caesar, etc." In other words, reasonable taxes are appropriate, something Republicans want to ignore. Too many Right Wing extremists want to pick or twist words to fit their own warped and greedy plans while theyn do the bidding of their corporate puppet masters.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
BoshSpong
My micro-bio does not meet HP's guidelines
01:07 PM on 06/07/2011
Right! Of course and the mob's money also belongs to them, and the moneys taken by fraud on pyramid schemes by the bankers are theirs, and the goods stolen by Somalian pirates are theirs and so on.. and so on...

Are actually that simple minded and foolish? or are just acting like a fool..
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68Namvet
Sioux, French, German, Jew, American mutt
09:53 PM on 06/06/2011
I will try to post this one more time - please do not put up a blank screen.

Ever notice how all of the republican ideas around anything provided by the taxes we pay to operate the government can be so easily replaced with a "voucher". For those of you who do not understand their use of "voucher" - it is a sly method of creating additional tax breaks or revenue for the wealthy.

Want to send your kid to a private school? And it costs $5,000/yea%uFFFDr - hey no problem - we'll create a voucher for $2,500 available to all who live in the area. Those that can afford it and are spending for private schools get a $2,500 reduction in their bill - those that can't afford an additional $2,500 per child per year - you're stuck in an underfunde%uFFFDd public school with poor teachers, increased classroom size, poor textbooks and crumbling buildings.

Now, it's Medicare. Those who can afford their private insurance now - well, you'll get a "voucher" (oops - sorry - now they are referred to as "coupons") good for a $6,000 reduction in those fees in the future. Those who cannot afford private insurance - you'll get a "voucher" (coupon) too - also good for a $6,000 reduction of private insurance you cannot afford. Can't come up with an extra $6 - $10,000 a year for your insurance? No problem. Just die quickly - and you can use the vouchers (coupons) to wallpaper the
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weathergirl
loved politics as a little girl!
10:52 PM on 06/06/2011
F and F! Love it! Well put!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
silverwolf13
I know that I do not know.
11:39 PM on 06/06/2011
Paul "wonder boy" Ryan. His plan would not give us a balanced budget in the next 20 years, and then only assuming generous contributions from Ms. Rosemary Scenario.

Mr. Ryan's budget is not "smoke and mirrors," because he does not include a line item for mirrors or for smoke; he just takes away funding from any program that helps anyone but his campaign donors and redistributes it to "Real Americans."
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68Namvet
Sioux, French, German, Jew, American mutt
11:09 AM on 06/07/2011
Well, republican­'s golden boy of economics, Paul Ryan, presented his plan to get us on the road to "fiscal conservati­sm". Finally, the numbers are in. If we follow Ryan's plans to reduce Social Security and Medicare benefits, cut spending, and keep taxes at 19% of GDP with tax cuts for the wealthy and tax increases for low and middle class - IT WILL BALANCE THE BUDGET!

Problem is - It will add $62 trillion to the national debt and the budget will not be balanced until 2063.

Now that's a "fiscal conservati­­ve" plan ya gotta love!

Fanned for your comment
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68Namvet
Sioux, French, German, Jew, American mutt
01:48 PM on 06/07/2011
Well, republican­'s golden boy of economics, Paul Ryan, presented his plan to get us on the road to "fiscal conservati­sm". Finally, the numbers are in. If we follow Ryan's plans to reduce Social Security and Medicare benefits, cut spending, and keep taxes at 19% of GDP with tax cuts for the wealthy and tax increases for the low and middle class - IT WILL BALANCE THE BUDGET!

Problem is - It will add $62 trillion to the national debt and the budget will not be balanced until 2063.

Now that's a "fiscal conservati­­ve" plan ya gotta love!

Fanned for your post
09:27 PM on 06/06/2011
These are the people who have destroyed the country and they still sit there with smiles on their faces.
09:12 PM on 06/06/2011
It's never really been about Party, Race, Color, Creed or Origin. It's always been about the HAVES and the have nots. The RICH vs. the poor. Follow the money every time and you'll find your motive. If not financial remuneration, then Sexual favor! Damn I must be in the WRONG party
09:05 PM on 06/06/2011
I'm not sure I understand why no one ever talks about CLEANING UP Medicare. Everyone knows it is full of false claims and malpractice, etc. There should be no reason to take Medicare away from us elderly -- and the children and disabled -- just FIX it so the correct benefits go to the proper providers instead of the scam artists. It is hardly FREE either. It is all I have and since I am not working and living only on Social Security, I can't afford to get insurance elsewhere. The people in Congress who are wealthy can well afford to sit in Washington and make decisions about poorer, old people who have to rely on Medicare and Social Security. Take away THEIR insurance and benefits and make them all have to have Medicare and maybe they will be a little closer to having empathy for us Medicare recipients.
09:32 PM on 06/06/2011
Fast foward 20 years to someone in your same position and Ryan's plan in effect, that person would have no chance for adequate healthcare. Such a person would probably die years early than he would under medicare because he could not afford healthcare under Ryan's plan. . Medicare is currently affordable, it has kept seniors relitavely healthy. Many people now live into their 80's and 90's. It works, so why change success. Indeed, despite the budget decifit, we should try to find ways to save medicare relitavely intact. we should not implement a plan, like Ryan's, with little thought to the consequences it will have regarding the health of seniors. Affordable healthcare for seniors needs to be retained.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
weathergirl
loved politics as a little girl!
10:55 PM on 06/06/2011
Let me be your fan #16. Thank you. Under the Ryan plan, my husband will be eligible for Medicare, me because I am one year younger, get to die young because I have too many pre-existing conditions (like breast cancer) which means that I will be uninsurable when I no longer have health care coverage through my employer! PS. Since I am a teacher working for state government, it may even come as soon as this calendar year!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
pandag
A false tale often betrays itself. Aesop 620 BC
04:32 PM on 06/07/2011
#18 F/F, antrich4000! Great post. Just can't believe that they dare to hold us hostage over the raising of the debt ceiling on this! Are we still in America?!?!?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Wally Parnel
10:36 PM on 06/06/2011
They are cleaning up fraud in Medicare, saving over $50 Billions, and jailing hundreds for fraud. Remember, Bush reduced medicare fraud investigations to almost zero, when he was in office. Same trick the GOP always uses, infiltrate, criticize, distort, ruin it, use it for politics. Too bad the majority of voters can not seem to see how they operate.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Reno Fickler
Head Lifeguard/Dead Sea Marina
08:03 PM on 06/06/2011
The Defense budget is twice of Medicare. Nobody said anything about cuts in wars we can't afford or ships we can't build or planes............
NO, take the money from the people not the govt's contractors.
The contractor's lobbyists are still at work
07:25 PM on 06/06/2011
Both parties are owned by special interests.Medicare can work.It needs reform.Why does neither party recognize this problem.Our Medicare system has been sold out to Pharmaceuticals and Insurance.

You only have to look as far as "The Medicare Modernization Act of 2003".This was GWB's 2000 campaign promise making prescription drugs available to medicare recipients.Here are a few clauses.

1)The non-negotiation clause-took away medicares right to negotiate drug prices with pharmaceuticals.
2)The non reimportation clause-made it illegal to purchase drugs at cheaper foreign prices outside the U.S.
3)pay-to-delay-made it legal for large manufacturers to keep cheaper generics from entering the market,giving them a monopoly on their high priced brand name drug.
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weathergirl
loved politics as a little girl!
11:00 PM on 06/06/2011
Oh yes, you are correct that we Medicare Part D is financed by big Pharma and the "for profit" health insurance companies! They get free rides while the rest of us get the shaft! We should really expand Medicare so everybody can have it especially when they do not get insurance from their employer! F and F!