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Orrin Hatch Rips 'Perverse' Tax System That Spares Lower Middle Class (VIDEO)

First Posted: 07/11/11 09:46 PM ET Updated: 09/10/11 06:12 AM ET

WASHINGTON -- Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) pushed back Monday on criticism that he wants to tax the poor, but called it "perverse" that people on the bottom half of the income ladder pay little or no federal income tax.

Hatch attracted heavy criticism last week for saying the poor need to "share some of the responsibility" for lowering the deficit while complaining that the rich already pay too much in taxes.

Hatch backtracked somewhat on Monday, but still suggested that the rich have an unfair share of the load.

"I don't want to tax the truly poor, those who would help themselves if they could," Hatch said. "But you can't tell me that 51 percent of all households are the truly poor. Really, I don't want to tax them either to be honest with you, but it's apparent we're going to have to find a better way broadening the base of the tax system."

He also criticized outlets like MSNBC and The Huffington Post for reporting that he said the poor should do more, accusing the "liberal blogosphere" of using Democratic talking points.

"I'm not surprised, but this completely misses my point and the point is this: No matter what these Democrats tell you, the wealthy and middle class are already shouldering around 100 percent of the nation's tax burden and 51 percent pay absolutely nothing in income taxes," Hatch fumed before lambasting the entire system.

"Furthermore, because of this perverse distribution of federal income taxes, there is no way to fix our deficit hole and start paying down the debt by increasing taxes only on the so-called rich," he said.

Hatch's figures on who pays how much in income tax, while slightly out of date, are essentially correct -- but critics note that he is leaving out all the other taxes people pay, including state income tax, sales taxes and property tax, not to mention innumerable government fees. In fact, middle class taxpayers often end up with no federal tax bill because the tax code recognizes the other taxes they pay, and gives them a break.

Hatch also ignores the fact that the loopholes many Democrats want to close disproportionately help the wealthy.

After railing against the perverse system that doesn't tax the lower middle class, Hatch argued it's the Democrats who will tax that sector if they want to cut the deficit without major "structural changes" to entitlement programs like Medicare and Medicaid.

"The president's out of control spending puts Democrats in the position of having to raise taxes big time on the middle class," Hatch argued.

His arguments came during debate over a resolution -- which he opposed -- that would express the "sense of the Senate" that the wealthy should do more to help deal with the nation's debt problems.

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WASHINGTON -- Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) pushed back Monday on criticism that he wants to tax the poor, but called it "perverse" that people on the bottom half of the income ladder pay little or no fed...
WASHINGTON -- Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) pushed back Monday on criticism that he wants to tax the poor, but called it "perverse" that people on the bottom half of the income ladder pay little or no fed...
 
 
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01:11 PM on 07/14/2011
"I'm not surprised, but this completely misses my point and the point is this: No matter what these Democrats tell you, the wealthy and middle class are already shouldering around 100 percent of the nation's tax burden and 51 percent pay absolutely nothing in income taxes," Hatch fumed before lambasting the entire system.

"Furthermore, because of this perverse distribution of federal income taxes, there is no way to fix our deficit hole and start paying down the debt by increasing taxes only on the so-called rich," he said.

HEY, "PROGRESSIVES", that the kind of government you want, 51% pay NOTHING, and get benefits, 49% pay EVERYTHING?? Isn't that a perversion of government, getting into our faces and picking winners and losers, engendering cronyism, corruption and favoritism to get at the head of the line? Doesn't that SCREAM OUT for a consumption tax, people pay when they SPEND, NOT when they create income, EVERYBODY PAYS THE SAME RATE: www.fairtax.org, EQUAL PROTECTION!!

Or maybe the "progressive" mantra LOVES grabbing government power for themselves, and picking winners and losers; handing over the keys to their families and futures to the politicians and bureaucrats, instead of leaving it to individual freedom, free choice and individual responsibility.
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99er2049er
Democrats create jobs and build strong economies
02:28 PM on 07/16/2011
Perhaps if we had a more level playing field, we wouldn't even need this discussion in the first place. Remember what the economy was like when Clinton was in power? We didn't have this massive unemployment rate or this high deficit. If you can tell the corporations to start hiring people, to stop downsizing, to stop outsourcing jobs, to start paying more in taxes, to stop paying low wages, then we wouldn't have people dependent on the government to cause the grief you are experiencing.

I can tell you from a personal experience, when I was unemployed, I depended on the government to help me with unemployment extensions until I found a job. The republicans tried to cut this only lifeline for me (in a system I had paid into out of my paycheck every week for over 20 years), the democrats looked out for me. If the republicans had their way, I would have been homeless instead of where I am now, making the best money I have ever made in my life and paying high taxes to help our government and economy. The democrats invested in me, the republicans abandoned and sabotaged me. Big difference between the two parties. When you are down and out the republicans will stomp on you, the democrats will care about you.
ALfarmgirl
Proud Liberal, College Graduate, Wife, Mother, Gra
01:53 AM on 07/14/2011
I truly believe that the Republicans in power are guilty of class envy. They seem to think that if they carry water for the rich & powerful that it will somehow rub off on them. Little do they realize that the rich & powerful have no respect for them but will use them for all they are worth. The poor who vote Republican are deluded into thinking that they will somehow become rich & powerful themselves. Viva Faux News.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mikdow
Curse you, Mansquito.
12:59 PM on 07/14/2011
Many of our representatives in Congress are millionaires themselves.
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99er2049er
Democrats create jobs and build strong economies
02:31 PM on 07/16/2011
I agree with ALfarmgirl 100%. In fact, the republicans have a hatred for anyone that is poor and needs government help. e.g. if a poor woman needs medical care from Planned Parenthood (not abortions, just medical care), the republicans say how dare you use my taxes to get medical care.

If someone loses their job by no fault of their own during this recession and can't find a job for a long period, the republicans say how dare you get unemployment insurance, while I am working. Instead of just being grateful they still have a job, republicans think it is fine for the wealthy to get away with massive welfare for the wealthy programs, but the poor aren't entitled to just the basic necessities of life to survive, like food and help with rent.
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Angie Tyne 1
I want my disagree button!!
07:31 PM on 07/13/2011
Does he need a wheel barrow for all that crazy?
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99er2049er
Democrats create jobs and build strong economies
02:32 PM on 07/16/2011
I truly wish he loses his job and his entire life savings, then has to look his family in the eye and explain why they have to lose their house, go on food stamps, and then watch him look for months for a job and deal with what so many tens of millions of Americans have to go through. I would truly love to see many republican politicians actually experience this and walk a mile in the poor peoples shoes.
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Angie Tyne 1
I want my disagree button!!
02:59 PM on 07/18/2011
There truly is not enough Karma to go around.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
rosey7
05:52 PM on 07/13/2011
Roy Mandina,

Who am I jealous of? Your link is junk. My income puts me in the top 6% of tax payers. You spout insanities that the minimum wage is un American and brought America down. You conveniently forget during Clinton's term, he balanced the budget and left a large surplus . And Clinton increased taxes on the wealthy, which I am considered to be part of.

You may long for the days pre the "New Deal," but most Americans applaud FDR creating the middle class. In my father's childhood, there was only rich and poor. Either it's teenagers who should work for any dollar amount or you are stating the minimum wage actually supports a person in this society .?

Drive into a neighborhood where people earn 10.00 or less an hour. You will see people who have nothing, sitting on stoops. eating their cheap processed food that will kill them before they turn 60. Why are more poor people obese? The eat filling, cheap food that is full of salt and high in fat calories. Then, drive over to a wealthy neighborhood.

You will see manicured lawns. People unloading grocery bags filled with fresh fruit and vegetables. Put two and two together and make four. Being part of the working poor is a never ending struggle. You stated most Americans are three pay checks from bankruptcy. So, paying struggling people less than 7.00/hr is a GOOD THING? You are quite kooky.
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99er2049er
Democrats create jobs and build strong economies
03:12 PM on 07/16/2011
I agree with you and can't believe any human being could want to lower the minimum wage. Try living in Los Angeles on Minimum wage or even $10 an hour. Unless you are living rent free in your parents basement and riding a bike to work, you will not survive. I honestly believe many republicans enjoy having the poor around because it makes them feel better about themselves and separates them as a higher class of human beings than the poor who they can call names.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
rosey7
04:29 PM on 07/17/2011
99er2049er,

Your story touches my heart. I have friends who were formally wealthy with their kids in great colleges who, after losing their jobs, lost everything in about an 18 month period. I have three friends ( couples) who had to declare bankruptcy. And another two friends who went bankrupt because of medical bills.
The horrible bankruptcy laws insisted on by republicans and voted in by democrats as well, literally ruins people for 10 years. Yet, the big corps who go bankrupt easily get new loans to finance their businesses, after shedding debt , sometimes taking a new name but mostly, they dont even have to do that. The bankruptcy laws should not be so punishing. The old laws were far more fair to citizens.

I am happy to hear you got a great job ! Congrats !!!!!

Good luck and God Bless.
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map1246
IT1579
01:18 PM on 07/13/2011
The bottom 47% are riding on the backs of the top 1%.
ALfarmgirl
Proud Liberal, College Graduate, Wife, Mother, Gra
01:57 AM on 07/14/2011
You are kidding, right?
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map1246
IT1579
04:47 PM on 07/14/2011
No.
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99er2049er
Democrats create jobs and build strong economies
03:15 PM on 07/16/2011
Oh those poor 1%, how rough this must be for them to be richer than the bottom 47%, to have enough money to live a hundred of the lifetimes the mass majority of citizens can live.

And don't forget that the bottom 47% happen to be the labor for these top 1%, cheap labor for their corporations, maids and gardeners for their homes, security for their property, people who bag their groceries, clean up their environments, and help them with all the tasks necessary for them to be the top 1%. And don't forget the top 1% also manipulate the government, laws, tax codes, regulations, to help them become this wealthy in the first place, while the poor do not have the power to effect their lives in this way.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Glenn Osborne
11:31 AM on 07/13/2011
This man truly does not get it! what he said may have been true 30 years ago, but the wages of the bottom half, are barely enough to live on let alone pay taxes. I would like to see Mr Hatch live for one year on that kind of an income. He is a prime example of what is wrong with Washinton DC. Most of these people are so out of touch with reality that they can not even make an intelligent statement on things like this.
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map1246
IT1579
01:18 PM on 07/13/2011
Right; the bottom half should not need to pay for their cable TV bills, or their smart phone bills, or their Disney vacations. The "rich" people should pay for all of that and the free ice cream.
ALfarmgirl
Proud Liberal, College Graduate, Wife, Mother, Gra
01:59 AM on 07/14/2011
Get a grip. Do you really think the poor have cable TV, smart phones or Disney vacations?
madame48
NO..it's a gop Cookbook !Tempus edax,homo edacior
11:11 AM on 07/13/2011
hmm and WHO is the old man who has been in DC writing all these tax laws? This guy is sickening. The minimumwage when I worked in college was then $1.85 hr. the same degree costs 10 times more now, the same house 10+ times more, the same car 10 times more, healthcare policy 20+ times more...but minimum wage is not $18.50 hr to keep up with those cost rises...the lower wages buy less every year and the GOP WANTS a pliant, insecure underclass ready to drive down wages anyway. so shut up Orrin, too bad you have no Christian heart for such a religious guy
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10:46 AM on 07/13/2011
I hope Orrin Hatch knows that while he's messing with the middle class, the TEA Party has big plans to rid him off his job. I hope he knows that he's not untouchable. So he needs to pay attention to his own matters because others have been displaced by the Tea Party.
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99er2049er
Democrats create jobs and build strong economies
03:18 PM on 07/16/2011
Fire this A S S CLOWN
Mike Rock
Right wingers, prepare to lose debate.
09:43 AM on 07/13/2011
"You can't tell me 51 percent are truly poor." In other words, the GOP hasn't completed its mission of 99% being truly poor. FEUDALISM. And Hatch exemplifies their goal and their attitude.
madame48
NO..it's a gop Cookbook !Tempus edax,homo edacior
11:12 AM on 07/13/2011
right on
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Angie Tyne 1
I want my disagree button!!
07:33 PM on 07/13/2011
The T/GOP actually...

From the member of the Austrian school of economics considered as THE source for libertarianism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Rothbard

It is essentially neo-feudalism:
http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2010/08/neo-feudalism-and-the-invisible-fist/
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
wardropper
New empty micro-bio
08:51 AM on 07/13/2011
There's an awful lot of ripping, tearing and blasting going on in Washington these days...

...signifying nothing, to paraphrase Shakespeare.

It's just the flavor of the decade for our backward media serfs...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Rochelle MacDonald
Living life at the legally accepted maxium speed
04:54 AM on 07/13/2011
Ok, fine. I'll pay more in taxes, but I won't be able to spend a cent on anything discretionary. Not an impulse buy of any kind will fit into my budget if I have to pay more in federal income taxes. No more lattes, no movies, no cable tv, nothing. I'm pretty much on the edge as it is now, and I earn $30k a year as a single. There are a lot of folks in the same boat as me. Taxing us working stiffs is not going to help the economy.
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map1246
IT1579
01:20 PM on 07/13/2011
Why should you get a free ride?
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
ReedYoung
global mean temperature, obviously INCREASING
02:04 AM on 07/14/2011
Why should oil companies get a free ride?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
rosey7
02:05 AM on 07/17/2011
Rochelle MacDonald,

The only people who will raise taxes on a person making 30,000 are republicans. Obama thinks people are middle class until they earn 200,000 a year. You are safe unless you vote republicans in. Republicans do not consider you part of the chosen elite who should be spared taxes. The perk of paying little to no taxes go to multi millionaires who in turn fund their campaigns and keep the cycle of the rich getting much richer going.
02:17 AM on 07/13/2011
oreo hack is on the finance committee and thinks the working poor should shoulder
more of the burden of taxes, we are tapped out oreo. we are trying to eat, pay for gas,
and are hanging on by a thin thread, i don't receive any govt assistance, none, i don't
want it, but for the love of the maker, stop trying to take more blood from me, i am a rock
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
wardropper
New empty micro-bio
08:53 AM on 07/13/2011
In a normal society, you wouldn't even have to feel ashamed of receiving government assistance,

but I totally get your comment.
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map1246
IT1579
01:19 PM on 07/13/2011
In a normal society we would each pay for our own needs.
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rickroland
Two Parties, Same Crap
02:02 AM on 07/16/2011
In a normal society, people would have enough pride and themselves and their families would responsibly handle their lives and finances so that they *never* would have to even consider getting assistance from "the government".
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99er2049er
Democrats create jobs and build strong economies
03:24 PM on 07/16/2011
And what does the hatch job think about people who lose their jobs during a recession, who have no control over their job security and look for months and even years and can't find a job, because there are millions of more people looking for jobs than jobs to hire them.

Oh the republican answer, lets just cut them off from unemployment and food stamps, while giving the wealthy another massive tax break. Oh and while we are at it, when they retire, lets cut them off from social security and medicare, so they will retire in poverty (or end up working at Walmart until they are 90 and die from a heart attack). Oh and that money the government saves from shutting down social security and medicare, lets give it to the rich. Great plan republicans.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
rosey7
01:33 AM on 07/17/2011
99er2049er,
I just took friends to dinner. The wife has a pension and worked over 35 years to qualify for the highest amount, she also gets disability. Combined, it's enough for one person to live a small but decent life. Her husband lost his job two years ago and other than the odd work I and a few friends can give him- he has found no work. Their son, who was supposed to start college last August delayed for a year and now will go with Pell grants, some scholarship money and debt he will take on. My friends are wonderful people who earned good incomes. They are fortunate to have just enough savings left to allow them to sell their house, but they will likely never have a home again. Hatch has worked for the government for 35 years. In all that time, Hatch has learned nothing about the people he represents and shows no compassion for those who are the true backbone of this country. Makes me ill !
01:54 AM on 07/13/2011
but there is a way, stop spending so much of our hard earned money, trips on air force 1
funding of other countries that don't even like us, cut back on the amount that you the
federal govt spend, i don't know of a household in the u.s. that hasn't cut back on some
thing, you dorks need to do the same.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LeftRight
TANSTAAFL
07:49 AM on 07/13/2011
Sure sparky, the federal government could cut back. Of course, if THEY cut back we're all in a pickle BECAUSE everyone else has already cut back....

The fact of the matter is that when the economy slows it's reasonable for businesses and people to cut back, it's UNREASONABLE for the government to do so because the government is the ONLY entity that can still spend!
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99er2049er
Democrats create jobs and build strong economies
03:26 PM on 07/16/2011
During a recession, the government must spend money. This is econ 101. That is why we have a federal government, to protect the people in a time of crisis. Also, as LeftRight states, the government is the only entity that can spend money during a recession as the private sector hoards their cash.

I do agree with skyhigh that the government should get out of the wars, that would save a heck of a lot of money. Iraq is a waste, Afghanistan is accomplishing nothing, Libya is just doing what we have to do to fulfill our NATO agreement, and instead we should just do targeted attacks on terrorists in countries like Pakistan.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
joshdiesel
No man is an island. NOTHING is done alone!
12:52 AM on 07/13/2011
So whats the answer Orin? Raise taxes on the poorest among us when they are hurting the worst from the recession YOUR party created? You must be kidding.
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99er2049er
Democrats create jobs and build strong economies
03:27 PM on 07/16/2011
This is the republican thought process. Just a hairline short of EVIL
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MrsGreebers
08:51 PM on 07/12/2011
Just how much money does he think these people have to hand over?
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99er2049er
Democrats create jobs and build strong economies
03:29 PM on 07/16/2011
Republicans, the party of Ebeneezer Scrooge. They seriously would send a million poor people off a cliff to their deaths, if it meant another 1% tax cut for their pockets. I have never seen a more greedier group of people in my entire life.