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Stocks, Bonds More Or Less Unaffected By Threat Of U.S. Default

Wall Street Us Default

By BERNARD CONDON and MATTHEW CRAFT   07/14/11 06:19 PM ET   AP

NEW YORK -- The CEO of a big bank says a U.S. default could be catastrophic for the economy. The head of the Federal Reserve warns of chaos. And a credit rating agency threatens to take away the country's coveted triple-A status.

The response on Wall Street: So what?

In Washington, the fight over whether to raise the federal debt limit has grown uglier by the day. The White House says the limit must be raised by Aug. 2 or the government won't be able to pay its bills, possibly including U.S. bonds held around the world.

But as the deadline nears, stocks and bonds have barely flinched.

The Dow Jones industrial average fell just 54 points Thursday and stands about where it did at the start of the month. The yield on the 10-year Treasury bond, which usually rises when investors see it as a riskier bet, is considerably lower than earlier this year.

It may seem an odd, even reckless, reaction by investors. But it isn't completely crazy.

Take the ho-hum reaction from the bond market. In theory, investors in U.S. Treasury bonds should demand higher interest payments when there's a greater risk they won't get their money back – in this case, in the event of a default next month.

Instead, the yield on the 10-year Treasury note rose only slightly Thursday, to 2.95 percent. In February, when the U.S. economic recovery seemed stronger and the debt limit was a distant threat, it was 3.74 percent.

But in this market, as in the schoolyard, size wins. The U.S. has $14 trillion in outstanding Treasury bonds. That dwarfs government bonds of any other nation. U.S. debt is held more widely and traded more often than any other government's IOU.

That matters because pensions, private investment funds and central banks the world over want to know that they can buy and sell these holdings fast – what investors call liquidity. During the credit crisis of 2008, investors bought U.S. Treasurys because they were perceived as not only safe but liquid.

"It's very nice that Switzerland is a safe place," says Avi Tiomkin, a hedge fund consultant who holds Treasurys. "But if you're the Russian or Chinese central bank, it's just too small."

Steve Ricchiuto, chief economist at Mizuho Securities, points to another reason the markets are calm: The U.S. may seem a more dangerous place to park your money given its rising debt, but much of the rest of the world isn't faring well, either.

He notes that Europe is trying to contain a debt crisis. Yields on bonds of various countries there have gone up recently. "The U.S. is the best in a bad world," he says, so people have no choice but to invest here.

As for stocks, there's plenty of news – some very good – to distract investors from Washington's problems. U.S. companies are issuing their financial results for the latest quarter, and they're expected to post big profits – up 15 percent, according to a survey by data provider FactSet.

JPMorgan Chase reported profits up 13 percent Thursday, higher than analysts had expected. The stock rose sharply on the news. Earlier in the day, it was that bank's CEO, James Dimon, who warned that a failure by Congress to agree to raise the debt ceiling could mean "catastrophe."

On Wednesday, Moody's Investors Services warned it might take away the United States' top-notch credit rating if it missed even one interest payment on its bonds. In testimony before Congress on Thursday, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said a U.S. default could throw the financial system into "chaos."

The Dow Jones industrial average closed at 12,437, down 0.4 percent. The S&P 500 closed at 1,308, down 0.7 percent.

The United States hit its current $14.3 trillion debt ceiling in May. For a new debt ceiling to last to the end of 2012 would require raising it by about $2.4 trillion.

A default would drive up the cost of government borrowing for years to come. That would translate into higher interest rates for everybody else, making it more expensive for corporations to finance spending projects and for Americans to take out mortgages or other loans.

The bigger fear is that a default could freeze the short-term lending markets that keep money moving throughout the global financial system. Treasurys and other government-backed debt are the most widely used collateral for loans in these markets.

A default and a downgrade of U.S. debt would lower the value of that collateral. Lenders might respond by forcing borrowers to sell other assets to post more collateral. The fallout could resemble what happened when Lehman Brothers collapsed in 2008.

The prospect of such terrible consequences may be exactly the reason investors aren't all that worried.

"There's just too much at stake politically and economically for a deal not to get done," says John Briggs, Treasury strategist at the Royal Bank of Scotland. "It seems hard to believe that any politician would want their name attached to a default of U.S. debt."

Many other investors are assuming the same thing. Tony Crescenzi, market strategist at money manager Pimco, says Wall Street has been expecting a deadline-beating deal since the debt-limit became a subject of debate earlier this year.

No one knows how close Washington can get to the deadline without triggering a sell-off. Sam Yake, an stock analyst at BGB Securities, is confident a deal will be struck. But he says that if enough investors start to worry, the fear could feed on itself.

"In financial markets, you're playing with people's confidence," he says. "If enough people start thinking it's a catastrophe, it could become so."

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NEW YORK -- The CEO of a big bank says a U.S. default could be catastrophic for the economy. The head of the Federal Reserve warns of chaos. And a credit rating agency threatens to take away the count...
NEW YORK -- The CEO of a big bank says a U.S. default could be catastrophic for the economy. The head of the Federal Reserve warns of chaos. And a credit rating agency threatens to take away the count...
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01:24 PM on 07/18/2011
Because Wall Street has nothing to do with reality? Just short the nation right? If you can make a buck on it's collapse how could a patriot walk away from that?
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lcr999
scientist
12:19 PM on 07/18/2011
The big money on Wall Street knows it won't happen. They may profit from some uncertainly going in, but when push comes to shove, JPMorgan and all of its friends will remind the politicians , both R and D, who owns them. They can posture all they want for the TPs but in the end $$ will speak. Wall street has $$, TPs just have funny hats. Just enough Rs will defect to make a good show for the TPs, let all the freshmen off the hook, and something will pass.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Lex Anton
Freedom doesn't exist in America.
10:09 AM on 07/18/2011
I'm starting to think they want us to default or the economy is not real. I dunno anymore, its like a action comedy...sucky.
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littlebrowngirl
Brevity is the soul of wit - Shakespeare
08:14 PM on 07/17/2011
Banks win if we default. We would be the losers. Thanks GOP.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jwmmjjj
Neither Liberal nor Conservative
02:15 PM on 07/17/2011
This seems to shoot holes in the "uncertainty" theory that Pubs like to throw around! We had lots of certainty during the Bush years and look at where the economy landed. Uncertainty is just another excuse for businesses to milk the public trough. Demand is still the driver of the American economy. If I can sell it, I will make it. Conversely, if there is no demand, why should I produce something I can't sell? This is another faulty reason the Pubs like to use regarding tax increases for the wealthy by saying they are job creators. If the wealthy are job creators, then why are we mired in the doldrums of slow economic growth? What have they done with their tax cuts? The answer is "nothing" for the economy!
07:13 PM on 07/17/2011
There is no such thing as certainty. We had zero certainty during the Bush years EXCEPT for taxes and have had no certainty in any other decade before or since. You're right, it is a line to get more handouts though for Corporate America.
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uneeda
Make Peace in Our Time
12:35 PM on 07/17/2011
when they run,if they do,they will all run together like the sheep they are....baa,baa,baa........to the metals,which are the only currency left
AgingLady
laughter is best medicine
11:42 AM on 07/17/2011
Thanks for the article. I still think the market will react but maybe not in time to help the so called talks.
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Aikaterina
A Greek-American living in California
11:41 AM on 07/17/2011
One reason that stocks (maybe less so US treasury notes) are still attractive is that anyone with money to invest-save, won't put it in banks, CD's or money-market funds. The interest on bank accounts is ridiculously low (1%-2%) annually, whereas treasury notes-bonds, and stocks have a greater yield or return, usually.

However, when another crash comes (and it will, since there's no regulations preventing reckless speculation), the fallout will be felt moreso by the financial titans-wizards, than the middle-low income folks, who've already lost jobs, homes and much of their life-savings (retirement investments). Once it hits the big and powerful, things will change.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
NWBrunette
Blessed Girl
10:38 AM on 07/17/2011
If there's a default, it will be a blip. The intransigent repub nutbags will be brought to their knees by events if they let it happen. My guess, no more than 48 hours. So far all those who took your money out of the market, make sure you're ready to put it back in.
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Captain Hindsight
Seeking the truth is my only agenda.
09:56 AM on 07/17/2011
We need to stop giving special treatment to the instituionalized gambling on wall street. Like casinos they know who the "Card Counters" are but do nothing to stop them. Tax capital gains on investments held less than 5 years as ordinary income.
05:20 AM on 07/17/2011
It appears most people here are starting to get it, there are, however, those that still blame one party or another...that is phase two of the wake up call....this is a bi partisan issue...25 years ago, when I began investing...the stock market was a better gauge of the economy...there was some corruption, but not as much.....now our government is walking hand in hand with the large corporations, many of which have become international conglomerates.....combine that fact with the bailouts....and you can see why the market is not congruent with the local economies. Profits are up, international manufacturing is up, employment in the U.S. is down dramatically. I just had a business dealing from a super nice business owner who was born and raised in Greece..., he moved to the US when he was 18, now in his mid 60's....he stated pure and simple....that this reminded him of the atmosphere in Greece.....over 63% of the developed world now agree that China is the new superpower and has already surpassed the U.S......we have two choices....either we start waking people up, or we fail.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
GerryS
I WANT to pay $1 million per year in taxes, or mor
01:40 AM on 07/17/2011
I just put all of my IRA money into cash, all $40k of it--------

with the exception of all of the real estate I own, INCOME producing real estate---

that total is about $750k in assets-

self directed IRA's---------look it up.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tehixe
Anything can change the nature of a man.
01:06 AM on 07/17/2011
We might have a crooked game going here, but it's the only game in town!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
teachone
Knowledge is Power
01:04 AM on 07/17/2011
They need to be VERY worried! They are not intelligent enough to know this and certainly would not let on to anyone if they were, as they know it would cause their investors to take their money and run if they knew what might be ahead! There are no more security blankets so they may as well face reality, if they do not raise the debt ceiling and taxes on the wealthy and there is a major crisis from it, "no one is going to be there to pick up the pieces and hand them a bailout and they will not survive this time around!"
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SteveM39
That's how dad did it, that's how America does it
12:25 AM on 07/17/2011
Weren't the Republicans claiming that uncertainty about the debt was keeping companies from hiring and that was why they needed to cut everything? It certainly appears that even in the face of imminent default, no one really worries much about the debt.

So why doesn't Washington get back to work and try fixing some of the real problems in America?

There is plenty that is broken. How about trade reform? or tax reform? Or campaign reform? Banking reform? Wall St reform? Health care reform? Housing reform? Education reform?
How about an industrial plan like those that work in Japan and Germany?

Everything that crashed in 2008 is still broken and going to crash again. All that has changed is an accounting rule that lets the banks hide how bad their loans are. That wasn't a fix, that will just insure that the next crash will truly destroy the world economy.
09:47 AM on 07/17/2011
You are right, and the next one will make 2008 look like a speed bump.