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Ohio Abortion Ban Challenges Terms Of Roe V. Wade

Abortion

First Posted: 07/21/11 04:38 PM ET Updated: 09/20/11 06:12 AM ET

Ohio Gov. John Kasich (R) signed a bill on Wednesday that bans abortions after 20 weeks if the fetus is determined to be viable, making Ohio the latest in a series of states to ban late-term abortions.

The Ohio bill contains no exceptions for rape or incest and only a very narrow exception for health of the mother, which means that an Ohio physician must be able to prove in court that he performed a late-term abortion to save the woman's life. If a doctor violates this rule, he could be arrested and lose his medical license.

"This is a big deal, in that it could have a real chilling effect on later abortions because there's a potential to be thrust into the court system for providing an abortion after viability," said Elizabeth Nash, a public policy associate at the Guttmacher Institute, a reproductive health research organization. "It would be a huge burden for a provider to go through all of that and have to hire a lawyer to prove that you provided an abortion under the law."

The Ohio law is similar to the 20-week abortion bans that passed in Nebraska in 2010 and in Alabama, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas and Oklahoma in 2011. These bills prohibit all abortions after 20 weeks, while the Ohio bill bans abortions only after the fetus is viable -- but doctors are required to start testing for viability at 20 weeks.

None of the 20-week bans have been challenged in federal court so far, despite the fact that they directly violate Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court decision that prohibits states from banning abortions before the fetus is viable. The Roe decision states that fetal viability "is usually placed at about seven months (28 weeks) but may occur earlier, even at 24 weeks," and it provides exceptions for both the life and health -- including the mental health -- of the mother.

The Ohio bill contains no exception for the mental health of a mother after the fetus is viable and severely narrows the health exception, but Ohio anti-abortion leaders are touting its health protections.

"By signing this critical pro-life legislation, Governor Kasich demonstrated to all Ohioans that the health and welfare of mothers and their unborn children are of paramount importance to the state of Ohio," said Mike Gonidakis, executive director of Ohio Right to Life, in a statement.

In addition to the late-term abortion ban, which violates the health exceptions outlined in Roe, Ohio is also considering a more extreme bill that would ban all abortions after a fetal heartbeat can be detected, which can happen as early as six weeks into a pregnancy. This could potentially launch the state into a lengthy court battle over the constitutionality of its abortion restrictions.

"[Ohio lawmakers] are definitely ignoring what the Supreme Court has said," Nash told HuffPost. "When the right situation comes around, there will be a challenge."

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Ohio Gov. John Kasich (R) signed a bill on Wednesday that bans abortions after 20 weeks if the fetus is determined to be viable, making Ohio the latest in a series of states to ban late-term abortions...
Ohio Gov. John Kasich (R) signed a bill on Wednesday that bans abortions after 20 weeks if the fetus is determined to be viable, making Ohio the latest in a series of states to ban late-term abortions...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tracyamanda
Do people even read these?
01:31 AM on 08/11/2011
ABORTION-the unborn childs point of view
Mommy please help me they're tearing me apart
Hurry mommy soon they'll take my heart
I guess that soon I am going to die
So I will spend my time left saying goodbye
Goodbye the things I will never see
The birds, the grass the pretty trees
I'll never have the chance to see what everyone can
I'll never even learn to stand
I'll never crawl,I'll never walk
I'll never get the chance to talk
I'll never smile,I'll never cry
Instead of 70 I will be 12 weeks when I die
I'll never get to have a sister or brother
Or officially meet my father and mother
I can't stand it momma feeling this pain
If I was alive in the real world I'd be going insane
I wont get to go to school to learn
Or see a campfire burn
I'll never hear a single sound from earth
I won't even live until my birth
Goodbye,momma,they've just about reached my heart
The rest of my body has been torn apart
You know I'm sure if you met me you'd want me to live
But my life your taking away when your supposed to give
Don't worry momma,I forgive you even though I'm just about dead
I just wwish you'd let me live instead
Goodbye momma,depsite it all I love you
I only wish you'd love me too.
02:58 PM on 07/30/2011
Again, non-human beings do not turn into human beings by getting older and bigger. Open a medical school textbook. This is easy to verify.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
p c r
Compassionate and Conservative are polar opposites
06:19 PM on 07/30/2011
Open a medical school textbook yourself. It will explain that the delivery of the products of conception from conception to 19.6 (19 weeks, 6 days) weeks is either an induced or spontaneous abortion. The delivery from 20 weeks on is a para, or birth.

You are so focused on your illogical arguments that you cannot see facts. A sperm and an egg have the potential to unite and develop into a VIABLE human. By your logic, each egg and each sperm is sacred as they have that potential. I see viability as when a fetus becomes VIABLE. A VIABLE human has the ability to process oxygen, evn if a higher concentration or ventilator is needed. A VIABLE human has the ability to think, feel and process nutrition.
Obscure circumstances cause a lack of oxygen or nutrition to process, such as being in outer space without a space suit or oxygen source (an inane analogy). The bottom line is that these people have developed to the point of having the ability to exist independently from being connected to another person's blood to get oxygen and nutrition.
Nothing you can do can make a fetus live independently of the host before it is viable. Once it is viable, and can live separately it gets rights. Your silly games of semantics don't mean anything. The bottom line is that the rights of a living, breathing person supercedes the rights of something that might develop into a viable being.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DigESource
03:16 AM on 08/11/2011
I do not see the egg or sperm as sacred, but the Individuation of infinite consciousness that results from their unity IS!

Oh, and by the way, if you don't cut the umbilical cord after birth, the living breathing baby still draws nourishment from the Mother. Are you saying that it is not alive at this point? The symbiotic argument has nothing to do with the reality of the origin of a human's body, which starts at conception, and the body is what you claim the right of protection for.

One does not have to study any medical texts, or become a Doctor or Scientist of anything to understand the self-evident realities that have been before us for aeons.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DigESource
01:20 PM on 07/27/2011
I have change this post due to a correction in posting with The Huffington Post. I will leave it neutral for now.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DigESource
12:14 PM on 07/27/2011
I do know this; woman have forsaken the most vulnerable and innocent beings in our world so they can have a base(sense 2) and meaningless sexual experience without end, while simultaneously claiming a right to that which they deny others, using twisted facts and logic that supplant the truth.

No man or group of Men have every destroyed innocent live with this degree of contempt for life throughout the entire history of the planet. Womenkind have truly one-upped Men in the scale of heinous and evil actions, that have truly produced are larger dark spot on history than Men could have ever produced. I guess the next one is global annihilation.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Cynthia Dudley
07:20 PM on 07/28/2011
You don't read much history if you can make that statement. And for the record, men have been walking away from their progeny and abandoning them to the elements for eons and you can hear crickets chirp for all the outrage that causes.
08:03 AM on 07/30/2011
It should cause outrage. I suspect it does not as it does not involve burning, dismemberment, and violent death.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DigESource
03:26 AM on 08/11/2011
Men do not walk away from their progeny. They are driven away by abusive women who have had no concept of the hard work men engage to support and sustain them by. Men walk away from abuse, not their love for their offspring. Women are unconscionable emotional and mental beasts that demonize Men as animals driving them further from their families.
02:57 PM on 07/26/2011
This INFURIATES me! People who have abortions at 20+ weeks are NOT doing it because they weren't sure they wanted this baby. They are doing it because something is wrong. Having been through this situation and having to terminate a VERY wanted pregnancy at 23 weeks due to severe fetal anomaly, I can say for certain that this law is going to hurt a lot of people. It is a heart-wrenching choice to have to make, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. During that awful time, the last thing a grieving mother needs is the government legislating her uterus.

Had my baby made it to term (no guarantee there), he would have immediately been rushed away from me for extreme and painful surgeries. He likely would never have left the hospital. You can call yourself pro-life all you want, Governor, but that is no life at all.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tracyamanda
Do people even read these?
12:34 AM on 08/11/2011
I am sorry you had to go through that. My problem with abortion are those who abort because they were irresponsible and the baby is 'unwanted'. They would sooner end their baby's life instead of giving them up for adoption to a loving couple. I was adopted, and I have adopted as well. Every baby deserves a chance at life.
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Aryeh Melaris
Put our government back on its leash!
10:02 AM on 07/26/2011
I think it bears consideration to ban adoption. If there wasn't this option, how many unwanted pregnancies might be prevented? Given that there is a about a 36 to 1 ratio of prospective parents to babies, it seems to do more harm than good, and cost us tons of money as taxpayers.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Freddie27
Liberal Gay Jewish Atheist
08:05 PM on 07/24/2011
Glad to see Governor Kasich is addressing the pressing economic problems Ohio is facing.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
p c r
Compassionate and Conservative are polar opposites
04:59 AM on 07/23/2011
If Mother Teresa were dying of kidney failure and Ted Bundy was the only match for a transplant that could save her life, no one could force him to donate a kidney. When he was executed, it would be illegal to take the kidney from his dead body to save the life of this saint.
Why is it legal to force a woman to carry a parasite in her body, causing permanent changes, against her will because some old white men and religious fanatics think her life is less valuable or important than a mass of cells unable to function outside of the host?
The GOP has no logic, only catchphrases and fear mongering.
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
demsrsilly
Proud supporter of workplace freedom.
08:45 AM on 07/23/2011
You sound like you would advocate legal abortions up to 8 months and 29 days.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
p c r
Compassionate and Conservative are polar opposites
12:26 PM on 07/23/2011
There is no such thing. When a fetus is capable of exiting the uterus and functioning independently (utilizing oxygen and nutrition), even if medical assisatance is needed, then it is a person. When the zygote/embryo/immature fetus is incpable of existing unless attached to a host, it isn't a person yet.
I worked high righ L&D for decades. I know exactly what comes out of a uterus at what gestational age.
BTW: The "9 month" pregnancy thing is an old wives tale. A pregnancy is an average of 40 weeks, 37-42 weeks being considered term. Any delivery under 20 weeks is an abortion, either spontaneous or induced, according to medical definition.
DO NOT ascribe your personal prejudices to me because you disagree with me beliefs.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Kittyburger
Schrodinger's micro-bio may or may not be empty.
02:29 PM on 07/23/2011
I have plenty of confirmation for my theory that it's never a "civil rights" case for people whose rights are not actually at stake. See: LGBT equality, women's reproductive health.
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10:27 PM on 07/22/2011
These states are attempting to circumvent Roe v. Wade. They know it won't be challenged in court, because it could end up at the republican supreme court of the u.s. and we know what that could mean. They have been trying to get rid of Roe v. Wade since the 70's. Women don't have control over their own bodies in these states.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DigESource
10:57 PM on 07/22/2011
If control over one's body equates to the right to kill others, then you would have no problem being killed if someone somehow felt the loss of control of their body due to your existence.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Madbunny
Prison Guard - FireFighter - now a School Teacher
11:33 PM on 07/22/2011
Publish your medical records on the internet, lets have everyone take a look at them.

Lets have politicians decide what medical procedures you should or should not be getting, forget about your doctor, he has no say in this, check with your local representative first. In fact, if *I* don't like what you're doing, regardless of whether you're paying for it out of your own pocket then I need to have a say in that decision as well.

Roe Vs Wade isn't all about the right to control ones body. Take a moment and read up on the text.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Lady1genius
No se puede tapar el sol con un dedo
12:09 AM on 07/23/2011
Actually, Dig E... there are such laws which allow killing if one feels reasonably in fear of their life or the lives of third parties. For example, you can kill a man who is raping you at gunpoint or knifepoint, or an armed individual who invades your home. Both of these scenarios do involve killing those who cause you to feel loss of control over your own body, and you will not serve a day in jail for a justifiable homicide. Generally these laws fall under the "castle doctrine" and if you are the "king of your own castle" in relation to your home, certainly a threat to your own bodily autonomy falls under the same general principle... unless you consider your body property of the state. I for one never will.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Shawn1978
type Conspiracy behind the subject for the truth
12:30 AM on 07/23/2011
Ok you want an abortion thats fine ,,,,,,,,just pay for it outta pocket along with taxes thats what im preaching (exclude rape or medical conditions) charge $30,000.00 up front to abort,,,, this would make everyone happy as in we can take the money from all these abortions and put it towards SS and medicade good plan huh?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
p c r
Compassionate and Conservative are polar opposites
04:49 AM on 07/23/2011
I think you should pay $50K out of pocket for your prostate exam or your testicular cancer treatment or your Viagra prescription.
Charging an exhorbiant amount to punish someone for having a medical procedure for reasons you have no concept of just because you believe in a mythical text written thousands of years ago and take instructions from an imaginary, misogynistic person in the sky is really twisted.
Get a uterus. Then, have an opinion of what to do with it. When I get to make decisions about what you get to do with your penis, you can make decisions about my uterus.
09:25 AM on 07/23/2011
Good plan? Do men that inseminate the women have to pay half? After all, a woman does not self fertilize, she gets impregnated.

Are willing to put up $125,000 (up front) in an interest bearing account for the support and security of any child you sire that a woman carries to term? That is half the estimated amount it will cost to raise the child.

If you want to decrease the number of abortions - abstain or get a vasectomy or use condoms and use them correctly.

Men are just as responsible for unplanned pregnancies as women.
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manntxs
I opted out cause I don't need no stinkin badges.
08:19 PM on 07/22/2011
I have come to the conclusion that I am not allowd to post anything related to this subject here. Every post I have made has been blocked. Anyone who has seen my other posts knows that I am not profane, I endeavor to be fair, call it as I see it firmly but strive for a civil discourse, even handed in debate. I don't heavy hand religion and my political views are across the spectrum. Nothing I have posted on this subject was anti abortion, pro abortion, it was simply some questions and thoughts on this particular subject.

Perhaps it is because I have the word man in my screen name and I am allowed no viewpoint or the expression of it. Of course now I wonder if this will even be allowed.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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manntxs
I opted out cause I don't need no stinkin badges.
10:58 PM on 07/22/2011
Ok...I can post a complaint but not a question or opinion. Thanks.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DigESource
11:00 PM on 07/22/2011
You are not the only one this is happening to. I'm seeing some of my posts blocked that have NO violating content in them whatsoever.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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manntxs
I opted out cause I don't need no stinkin badges.
11:19 PM on 07/22/2011
Thanks. At least they aren't just pickin on me! They are even pickin on a guy with badges!!!! LOL
06:51 PM on 07/22/2011
............NO...! ABORTION CAN'T BE LEGAL::....................SALE FREE ANTI -CONCEPTION SYSTEMS........ANY KIND OF THEM............AVOID BE PREGNANT..........IS LEGAL TO HUMAN CONSCIENCE........!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
lisalulu
I stand for Planned Parenthood.
07:29 PM on 07/22/2011
What?
09:35 PM on 07/22/2011
word salad
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DigESource
11:04 PM on 07/22/2011
Her point is clear.
06:14 PM on 07/22/2011
"Abortion in any instance should be based on a right women have to make decisions about their own lives. This is important because it implies a respect for women's moral worth and their moral autonomy. The principle that we should be allowed to make decisions on the basis of our conscience and act on them is an important one, to deny this to women in pregnancy is to deny them an integral expression of their humanity.

Basic physical autonomy must be respected. We do not generally oblige people to compromise their own physical integrity for the benefit of another person. It is illegitimate to compromise that principle with respect to the fetus in-utero. It is very disturbing that an argument can be made for placing an imperative on a pregnant woman to remain pregnant against her will. This gives to the fetus a higher moral standing than that of born children. If my three-year-old son was suffering from a potentially fatal condition and his cure relied on my willingness to donate an organ, there is no law that could compel me to undergo a medical procedure in order to keep him alive. Yet in the discussion of abortion, it is assumed that a woman should undergo certain medical procedures on the grounds that the fetus should be brought to term and survive."

http://www.prochoiceforum.org.uk/aad4.php
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MontanaSouth
Montanan in Tucson
06:53 PM on 07/22/2011
This is the most intelligent post on this thread to date. Thank you for finding this quote.
08:35 PM on 07/24/2011
You're welcome!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DigESource
07:10 PM on 07/22/2011
Then leave Men out of the responsibility loop.
09:39 PM on 07/22/2011
Use Condoms and don't leave it all up to the woman. Many men walk away from any and all responsibility when they walk away from a woman. Some men have never taken responsibility at all.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
p c r
Compassionate and Conservative are polar opposites
04:55 AM on 07/23/2011
They are. No man has ever paid child support for a fetus. If a child is spontaneously aborted or is born before viabilty, no man has ever paid child support. No man has ever had his entire skeletal structure permanently changed due to allowing a pregnancy to progress. No man has ever had permanent physical changes to their abdominal musculature due to pregnancy.
You are bitter because you made poor personal choices and have had to pay child support. Live with it, or keep your penis in your pants.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Budd B
05:30 PM on 07/22/2011
Are we going to go back to the days when the rich went out of country and the others went to back Room butchers to get this done. No law will ever stop it.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DigESource
07:19 PM on 07/22/2011
Maybe no law will stop it, but at least a law would provide justice that would have consequences like other killers experience. It doesn't stop others from killing either, but they say it is a deterrent.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Lady1genius
No se puede tapar el sol con un dedo
08:33 PM on 07/22/2011
I think you know where you can stick your justice.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Madbunny
Prison Guard - FireFighter - now a School Teacher
11:39 PM on 07/22/2011
Tell me, would you support a mandatory vasectomy and and Depo Provera shot for all children (obviously appropriate for sex) entering middle school, not reversed until they turn 18, or until they apply for a licence to have a child?

That would instantly end virtually all unwanted pregnancies during that time period and abortion would be essentially eradicated as a topic.
08:17 AM on 07/25/2011
There is no law stopping it. It is only stopping it after 20 weeks.
04:58 PM on 07/22/2011
I have often asked myself how these anti-abortion zealots can think they are making a better world by forcing women to bear children that they do not want -- women who may have no support, no job, no health insurance or any of a hunrdred reasons they are unprepared for parenthood. And being forced to carry a baby to tem that you know is going to die in front of your eyes? This is way beyond heartless. But I've finally come to understand that the zealots don't care about any of these things. All they care about is enforcing their personal religious views on everyone else.
This comment has been removed due to violations of our [Guidelines]
08:17 AM on 07/25/2011
Nobody is forcing anyone to carry a baby to term. They are just wanting women to decide before 20 weeks. 20 weeks is a long time to decide. I don't see what the problem is.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Lady1genius
No se puede tapar el sol con un dedo
02:40 AM on 07/26/2011
You do not want to see what the problem is. The problem IS that women who are aborting after 20 weeks have life-threatening issues such as abrupted placenta or toxemia, OR tests reveal the fetus has died or suffers from some defect incompatible with life which is detected at the routine 20 week ultrasound done for that purpose. Many things can go horribly wrong, pregnancy isn't some fairy tale where all works out in the end. These were wanted pregnancies, otherwise they would have been aborted before 12 weeks when it is much easier and cheaper. It's not about "taking a long time to decide" it's about things going horribly wrong, so why do you keep posing this same issue?
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04:51 PM on 07/22/2011
Of course the state has the ability to regulate medical procedures. This is the proper role of government and the will of the people who elected them. Right are not absolute - you can't yell fire in a crowded theater, no one can own atomic bombs, ect.....

If the people elect liticians to represent their will, then we need to defend their decision. After all, they haven't baned abortions, a woman can still get an abortion in Ohio if she so desires.
06:20 PM on 07/22/2011
UNFORTUNATELY.

For that baby who'll be killed due to no fault of his/her own.

WHAT did that baby DO to desrve to be KILLED?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
lulubelle1956
06:50 PM on 07/22/2011
All you are doing is killing women who always do what they have to do. Congratulations, you are complicit to murder of already alive people.

Abortions Return to Back Alleys Amid Restrictive New State Laws ...
Jun 3, 2011 ... In states across the country, women are being arrested for the crime of ending their own pregnancies—though they have a constitutional right ...
www.thedailybeast.com/.../abortions-return-to-back-alleys-amid-restrictive-new-state-laws/?...

The Return of Back-Alley Abortions - Topix
Jun 3, 2011 ... The Return of Back-Alley Abortions. Full story: TheDailyBeast.com. Michelle Goldberg is a senior contributing writer for The Daily ...
www.topix.com/forum/business/publishing/TRSTLSH22VTO5TPKU
The Return of Back-Alley Abortions
Jun 3, 2011 ... In states across the country, women are being arrested for the crime of ending their own pregnanc...
www.businessinsider.com/the-return-of-back-alley-abortions-2011-6
Breaking News - Back-Alley Abortions Return
Mar 16, 2007 ... Back-Alley Abortions Return. Perhaps the most-used argument by ... Deadly, back-alley abortions have returned, but they are fully legal. ...
www.lifeissues.org/breakingnews/2007/bn03-16-07.htm - Cached - Similar

Feb 19, 2011 ... Return of the back-alley abortion. Remember those bad old days? Your government is openly promoting their return. ...
givesgoodemail.com/2011/02/19/return-of-the-back-alley-abortion/ -
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Madbunny
Prison Guard - FireFighter - now a School Teacher
11:45 PM on 07/22/2011
I don't care.

Get it, nobody cares about that baby. You pretend like you do, and you make a lot of noise about how you do, but if you did then you'd care about the tens of thousands of already born children that are unwanted.

If you cared then you'd be taking solid and real steps to prevent conception in the first place beyond religious mumbo jumbo.

If you cared about life, you'd care about the mother.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MontanaSouth
Montanan in Tucson
07:06 PM on 07/22/2011
The voters of Ohio elected politicians that said they would work on jobs, not social conservative hot button issues like abortion. That being said, any voter that trusted a GOP politician to concentrate on fiscal problems while leaving the social/religious issues alone was duped or unaware of the deep roots social conservatism has in the GOP today.

They also have the right to oppose legislation that is contrary to what they believe and to oust politicians that they feel have defrauded them. That is why ballot initiatives and recalls are very important.
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07:37 PM on 07/22/2011
You're right, that's why Obama is just a one term President and the Republicans will retake the senate. No president has ever been reelected with unemployment over 8%.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DigESource
08:02 PM on 07/22/2011
If it weren't for the selfishness of Women, we could focus on correcting the fiscal problems of our Country. Funny how Women always seem to get on their "Right to Kill" rant when the Country needs to make serious changes to economic policy. They just want to get a piece of that tax payer pie to pay for their continued bloodlust of the most innocent members of the world.