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Moody's Further Cuts Greece's Debt Rating, Says Default Almost Certain

Greece Default

First Posted: 07/25/11 09:09 AM ET Updated: 09/24/11 06:12 AM ET

ATHENS (Ingrid Melander and George Georgiopoulos) - Moody's cut Greece's credit rating further into junk territory on Monday and said it was almost certain to slap a default tag on its debt as a result of a new EU rescue package.

It was the second rating agency to warn of a default after euro zone leaders and banks agreed last week that the private sector would shoulder part of the burden of a rescue deal that offers Greece more cash and easier loan terms to keep it afloat and avoid further contagion.

"The announced EU program along with the Institute of International Finance's statement implies that the probability of a distressed exchange, and hence a default, on Greek government bonds is virtually 100 percent," Moody's said in a statement.

Bank lobby IIF, which led private sector negotiations, aims to attract 90 percent investor participation in the bond exchange plan which comes on top of the EU's new 109 billion euro bailout.

Moody's cut Greece's rating by three notches to Ca, just one notch above default, to reflect the expected loss implied by the proposed debt exchanges.

Greece now has the lowest rating of any country in the world covered by Moody's, which, like Fitch last week, said it would review Greece's rating after the debt swap is completed.

"Once the distressed exchange has been completed, Moody's will reassess Greece's rating to ensure that it reflects the risk associated with the country's new credit profile, including the potential for further debt restructurings," it said.

However, whereas Fitch pledged to quickly give Greece a higher, "low speculative grade" after its bonds had been exchanged, Moody's said it could not forecast when the rating would change or how.

"It all depends how quickly the debt exchange takes place," said Alastair Wilson, Moody's Managing Director for EMEA Credit Policy. "Once we have greater visibility over that, we will reassess the credit profile quite quickly. Whether the rating will change, that's a different question," he told Reuters.

A senior EU official said on Saturday that the aim was to start a voluntary swap of privately-held Greek bonds for longer in late August and conclude it in early September.

Greek bank shares and the broader stock market were unfazed by Moody's action, trading flat. Analysts said the downgrade and the default warning were priced in and less worrying following assurances provided by the EU deal.

"The EU Council last week effectively secured Greek banks' continued access to ECB liquidity, even in the case that PSI (private sector involvement) triggers a selective default," said Platon Monokroussos, an economist at EFG Eurobank.

CONTAGION CONTAINED ... FOR NOW

Moody's said it would take into account the possibility of a second default while reassessing Greece's rating.

"Our experience is that relatively small restructurings have often been followed by deeper defaults," Wilson said, adding that he could not say if this would be the case for Greece.

The rescue package for Greece benefits other euro zone countries by containing near-term contagion risks but it was not necessarily positive in the longer run as it set a precedent for private sector involvement in rescue deals, Moody's said.

"The support package sets a precedent for future restructurings should the finances of another euro area sovereign become as problematic as those of Greece. The impact of Thursday's announcement for creditors of Ireland and Portugal is therefore likely to be credit-neutral," it said.

The cost of insuring most peripheral euro zone government debt against default rose on Monday on market doubts that the fresh aid package for Greece agreed last week will protect bigger economies from contagion.

Standard & Poor's and Fitch rate Greece CCC, broadly in line with Moody's rating. S&P has not yet said how the EU summit deal will affect Greece's rating.

(Additional reporting by Cecile Lefort in Sydney; Writing by Ingrid Melander, editing by Mike Peacock)

Copyright 2011 Thomson Reuters. Click for Restrictions.

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ATHENS (Ingrid Melander and George Georgiopoulos) - Moody's cut Greece's credit rating further into junk territory on Monday and said it was almost certain to slap a default tag on its debt as a r...
ATHENS (Ingrid Melander and George Georgiopoulos) - Moody's cut Greece's credit rating further into junk territory on Monday and said it was almost certain to slap a default tag on its debt as a r...
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09:59 PM on 07/26/2011
Greece has shown us what happens when government gets too big.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Patriot86
Compassion is the basis of all morality.
05:23 AM on 07/27/2011
Greece has shown us what happens when anyone attempts US style faux capitalism for the bankers and by the bankers...our danger is that we won't reign in those who no own the Republican party.
07:27 PM on 07/27/2011
When you have one out of three workers working for the government it is hard to cover their salaries with taxes.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
hello All
12:40 PM on 07/26/2011
Both Greece and US are inching towards default but the Greece rating were downgraded and US is still AAA.
06:27 PM on 07/26/2011
Do not compaire GREECE & U.S.A U.S is a giant and powerfull, GREECE is just more

powerfull in HISTORY, and still gives lessons to the rich countries, how people sould live.

germany has all the money in the world, but germans work fron dawn to dask, eating pigs and potatoes, having 1 thing in mind; *EUROPIAN DOMINATION*, (arian) self-called germans, they changed their flag, but their BLOOD is still unchanged.


Every year germans come to Greece for vacation & are so jealous of how relaxed and beautiful life is, plus the sun for 365 days hugs all of GREECE.

What good money DO when people in Somalia abandon their children in the streets to die because they have no food?

Bankers, CEO's , filthy rich with cold hearts, care about 1 thing HOW TO MAKE MORE MONEY.

I wish GOD could turn all of them golden fed royalties into a Somali just for a week.

GREECE will defeat germany and them far right fasicts again & again& again& again......

With out struggle FREEDOM will never blum!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
AtlantaIconoclast
12:17 PM on 07/26/2011
Isn't Goldman implicated in this mess? Weren't they deceiving the Greek Govt by claiming that certain investments were triple A rated when in reality they were worthless junk?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Patriot86
Compassion is the basis of all morality.
05:24 AM on 07/27/2011
AIG, Lehman and Goldman bankrupted not just the US but the world.
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Idriss Nokour
knowledge is Power
11:25 AM on 07/26/2011
SNP laughing all the way to the bank!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
dumasjohnj
11:12 AM on 07/26/2011
If you borrow 1 dollar you will have 2 dollars less in the future.
If you tax 1 dollar, you will have to pay back 3 in the future to bribe the lender enough to have him give you his dollar now.
If devalue 1 dollar and tax 1 dollar you will have to pay back 4 dollars.
Or else, why would you ever lend someone your dollar?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Lex Anton
Freedom doesn't exist in America.
10:41 AM on 07/26/2011
The EU was a bad idea. The whole purpose of it was to make one big country. Well THAT failed.
06:29 PM on 07/26/2011
Sorry my friend but the EU was created so germany will overcome Europe without WAR.

JUST MONEY !!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
HappyBalance
People BEFORE Profits
09:44 AM on 07/26/2011
Why do we listen to ANYTHING Moody's and the other financial rating agencies have to say?

Oh yes, because they rated all those fantastic companies AAA ratings just before they went belly up in 2008 plunging us into a recession.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Peter007
08:19 AM on 07/26/2011
Why doesn't Greece destroy all of their old cars and mandate that everyone buy a new car.
You know...cash for clunkers. It worked in the US and got us out of financial difficulty.
06:32 PM on 07/26/2011
My friend Peter, GREECE did that before US knew what, cash for clunkers was.

But in GREECE gas is 8 euros the liter, not the gallon!!

I would have agreed with you if they give up their cars for bicycles, and let mass transit work better.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Patriot86
Compassion is the basis of all morality.
05:25 AM on 07/27/2011
No one was mandated...you know I don't mind the fact that you people are completely unpatriotic and want American to fail...but must you alway l_ie.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
msjimmied
08:00 AM on 07/26/2011
Few things happen all of a sudden. When the acronym "PIIGS" first came about, the world was alerted that there was a problem. The implosion was delayed to allow the banksters to suck up what they can, promising the people that dire consequences was at hand if they did not practice austerity. The one who got away was Iceland. The other dominoes will fall too, it is only a matter of time. Austerity causes a lack of demand, it will not juice the economy enough to generate revenues. All the shenanigans reminding people and nations of the debt is the banksters ploy to get people to pay up for their gamble in high finance that has been an absolute disaster.
09:00 AM on 07/26/2011
Two thoughts: I disagree somewhat when ppl hail Iceland as "the way to do it". First, the debate between Iceland, the Netherlands and the UK is far from over. We would probably look at Iceland quite differently if the Netherlands or the UK had similar problems as - let's say - Spain or Ireland; if it could cause a contagion.
Along similar lines I think that if not the US and the Eurozone were at the top of the economic headlines every other week, the UK would be in much deeper troubles given their almost zero growth.
06:40 PM on 07/26/2011
Netherland­s, dear friend takes 42% of your earnings, your check comes to you after the bank has take out your payments for everything you bought.

Hmmmmm middle class gives half their earnings to live? And rich get away with taxes? Do you think that's fair?

Have you ever visited Holland? I mean the real one, not the one they saw you in papers.

Greece - Ireland- Portugal- Spain -Italy.........their people live better than the rich germans, some day ALL you will wake up and see who is behind all these *things*

thanks
09:28 PM on 07/27/2011
GE= german?

I am answering to your moronic remark about your arian nation.

When GREEKS were building Parthenon's your (great-great-great-grandparents) as you called them, THEY WERE SWINGING STILL UP ON TREES MALAKA.
09:00 AM on 07/26/2011
My second thought is regarding "austerity". It is extremely difficult. For the last decade, Germany went through quite a bunch of reforms. Social security/ welfare rules became harsher, unions and worker showed restraint in collective bargaining negotiations to make the economy more competitive. And we adopted policies (including a change to our Basic Law) to balance the public budgets. Right before the crisis hit, we had for the first time since decades a balanced federal budget. And this for a good reason (decline in population).
If one now suggests that a completely anti- cyclical action in Greece, Portugal and elsewhere is needed but they cannot raise the money for that from private investors (why, one might be tempted to ask btw, if that is the right thing to do) it impacts our budget, possibly to the point that instead of the promised participation in Germany's growth rates ppl would face another round of cuts to fund these bills abroad.
I am not saying the current policies are the best we can get; they are surely not. But I want to describe the mood of citizens who have in the end to approve the way taxpayer money is spent.
06:44 PM on 07/26/2011
An old saying says: A WOLF MIGHT CHANGE IT'S FUR BUT NEVER IT'S MIND*

Guess for which country i am refering to !

arina germans were is and always will be predadors, they work like ants trying to colonize the whole forest. Thanks
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
frank1946
Tell the Truth
06:05 AM on 07/26/2011
Wish Obama would wake up and smell the Problems in Deficits and Illusory Politics !

Seems like Harry and Obama really want to destroy Social Security and Medicare by
refusing to make changes until it is too late to save them !

Why ?
10:31 AM on 07/26/2011
Greece is more like a state then a sovereign country as that they gave up their sovereign currency for the Euro which they cannot control. The US is not comparable to Greece even in the slightest.

Want a good comparison of what high deficits can do to a monetary sovereign country? Look at Japan. 240% debt to GDP ratio. They bankrupt? No. They have high taxes? No. They cannot find buyers of their debt? No.

Google Modern Monetary Theory. You might learn something.
06:50 PM on 07/26/2011
So true myfriend, U.S & GREECE can't be compaired.

EU created so Europe will be dominated by arian germany, that's why England has it's own money.

Theories work only for the RICH my friend, middle class pays in U.S more money than the filthy rich, I know I am a U.S middle class tax-payer.


p.s GOP's know the theory but they do not want middle class to survive.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Josh Steinhauer
Ex-Patriot, Europe
03:56 AM on 07/26/2011
The difference between the Greece debt situation and the American debt situation are like night and day. Greece is in a financial situation where they simply cannot pay their debt. They lack the tax revenue and more importantly the political will to do what is necessary to turn their country around.

The US however has the means to pay its debt however we simply not want to pay our debt. It is a completely different situation. We can increase our debt ceiling by 10 Trillion dollars and still have the means to pay it. Greece has no option of being able to raise their debt ceiling because they have no means of being able to pay their existing debt.

Greece poses a unique problem, in normal circumstances; Greece would devalue their currency allowing them to have some wiggle room with their debt. But because they are tied to the Euro they cannot do that. The US on the other hand printed an additional 800 Billion dollars which devalued our currency a bit and allowed us to manage our debt a bit better. So though the problems may appear similar, they are very different.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Aarontastic
"Mr. Cain instead decided to try to provide her wi
05:27 AM on 07/26/2011
The Greek situation is very different from our own, but I don't think that anyone should fault the government of that country for a lack of political will. The Greek PM and his cabinet have sponsored very, very unpopular austerity measures in order to comply with the demands of the EU. Maybe it wasn't the smartest course of action, but it was certainly a gutsy one.

Although the U.S. still has the revenue to pay it's debt, it's important to note that we have been borrowing to pay down our debt for a long time now--it's America's credit rating and stable currency which allows it to bear its obligations. Greece, besides lacking tax revenue, simply lacks the ability to borrow like this country can. You're right about Greece's trouble being exacerbated by its use of the Euro though; joining that org. comes at the cost of considerable fiscal and monetary autonomy.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Peter007
08:17 AM on 07/26/2011
I see your point but I disagree.

Greece can pay off their debt. They can raise taxes, sell assets, and stop welfare spending. The reason they don't is political. The population will not tolerate those actions.

So, yes, the US and Greece are similar, the difference is that the political consequences for Greece's solution are ten times as large as the political consequences that would occur in the U.S.

When the US prints money to pay its debt, that is a tax increase.
09:22 AM on 07/26/2011
I disagree somewhat. From all I can tell it's really in part that they lack the institutions to for example effectively raise taxes. One that is often mentioned for example is a proper land property registry (Not to mention that the clientile system they had for so many years also adds to the inefficiency).
I guess the (increasingly heard) political voices in Germany who envision a process similar to the one we went through in order to improve the economy in eastern Germany after Reunion are right. But that is a process which takes at least a decade and more. In that way I think the decision to effectively take Greece away from the markets for a decade and more and use the EU regional investment funds money to create businesses "on the ground" and if need from scratch is the right way.
Where the Greek populations is right - and we have a similar debate here in Germany - is that now after the dust from Lehman, etc. settles - we see that those ppl and institutions who were most involved in the schemes that caused this crisis and that those of our citizens who have the highest amount of income and wealth, those who could carry a larger burden without effectively feeling the impact of it in their quality of life, do not have to contribute their fair share.
09:22 AM on 07/26/2011
It leads - at least in the public sentiment - to decisions that defy common sense: Billions were made available to stabilize the financial system/ nationalize broken banks, pensioners got a guarantee that their pensions would not decrease (within the German system, pensions are linked to the development in salaries. If the salaries decreased because of short shift labor in the crisis, so would have been the pension development) but then we had a bitter, several month long debate after a constitutional court ruling which outlawed the then used formula to calculate basic welfare about, effectively, raising welfare by zero, five or eight Euros per month.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
FogBelter
Illegitimis non carborundum
03:46 AM on 07/26/2011
I want to see how they do this Bond Swap without triggering a Credit Event. If no Credit Event occurs then the purpose for buying Credit Default Swaps evaporates. That would certainly gum-up the derivatives market.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Aarontastic
"Mr. Cain instead decided to try to provide her wi
05:31 AM on 07/26/2011
Interesting thought D: I think that the bond swap does count as a credit event--derivatives traders will prosper on this, I'm sure.
09:33 AM on 07/26/2011
What I have read about it so far (for example in German Financial Times but also elsewhere) is that this credit event is a minor concern, actually. From what I read and remember, we are talking about less than 10 billion in quantity (regarding Greece) and it is mostly a problem of UK financial institutions.
But, if you read in between the lines (and also look for example into some policies and statements in Germany and France) we would like to do nothing better than actually dry up this market. To the best of my knowledge, CDS trading with national bonds is now outlawed in Germany by ministerial decree. I do think/forecast that if both France and Germany switch from currently conservative governments to center-left ones in 2012, 2013 than surely much more regulation will be enforced there. The interesting part is that also among the conservatives in Germany there is quite a share (headed by our current Financial Minister) which are described in German as "ordo- liberal" who support and suggest such a political move since CDS are seen as one of the unregulated "products" that question the supreme rule of lawmakers.
Some fear regarding "credit event" were expressed a while ago because economists feared that this would flush more capital into hands which are currently gaming the system against the European nations.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
456098405602600590456012
"TINA!...bring me the axe."
03:01 AM on 07/26/2011
Well let them go first and check it out for the rest of us.
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libertylobo
Seeking refuge from the two-party dictatorship.
01:45 AM on 07/26/2011
Why are we bailing out failed socialist states? Who will bail out our failed socialist state??
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03:48 AM on 07/26/2011
Greece is not a Socialist state despite how many times you and like-minded individuals claim it. Until you acknowledge this fact, I don't see how anyone can still think you have any credibility in the matter.
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