National Rifle Association To File Lawsuit Over Bulk Gun Sales Rule

By Jeremy Pelofsky

WASHINGTON -- The gun industry plans to file lawsuits on Wednesday challenging requirements that weapons dealers along the U.S. border with Mexico report multiple sales of semi-automatic rifles, escalating the fight with the Obama administration.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives last month ordered more than 8,000 gun dealers in Arizona, Texas, New Mexico and California to report such sales to try to stem the "iron river" of guns flowing to the violent Mexican drug cartels.

Dealers are required to report sales of two or more rifles to the same person at one time or during any five business days for semi-automatic weapons greater than .22 caliber and with the ability to accept a detachable magazine.

Two Arizona gun dealers backed by the National Rifle Association, one of the most powerful lobbying groups in Washington, will file a lawsuit in Washington as will the National Shooting Sports Foundation which represents the firearms industry, the groups said.

They will argue that ATF was not authorized by the Congress to require reporting such information about semi-automatic rifles purchases, rather it was only allowed to require reporting about handgun and revolver sales, according to copies of the lawsuits.

"At the time Congress authorized the reporting of multiple sales of handguns, it could have required it for the sale of long guns, but it did not," said Lawrence Keane, general counsel for the National Shooting Sports Foundation.

The gun dealers and groups will ask the courts to block the ATF from imposing the requirements which begin by August 14, they said. Failure to comply can result in losing their licenses to sell firearms.

About 8,500 gun dealers would be subject to the reporting requirement. Some 36,000 reports of multiple handgun sales were made from the four border states in fiscal 2010, according to ATF.

Attorney General Eric Holder told reporters that the regulations were legal and necessary to halt guns going to the drug cartels.

"We will vigorously oppose that lawsuit," Holder said. "We think that the acts that we have taken (are) consistent with the law and that the measures that we are proposing are appropriate ones to stop the flow of guns from the United States into Mexico."

The reporting requirement is one prong of the Obama administration's effort to stop gun trafficking from the border states to Mexico violence has killed tens of thousands since 2006.

One ATF operation to track guns going to Mexico from Arizona has become a full-blown scandal for the Obama administration because agents said they were not allowed to follow guns beyond the initial purchaser. As a result dozens of the weapons have shown up at crime scenes in Mexico.

(Editing by Jackie Frank)

Copyright 2011 Thomson Reuters. Click for Restrictions.

Comments

[jack Winn]

04:09 PM on 08/21/2011

This is legal maneuvering. The reporter hasn't dug very deep, but it sounds as if the NRA is challenging a Treasury Dept regulation as beyond the scope of the authorizing statute.

They're probably doing this because they object to reporting requirements. (Duh) They want the gun dealers to make as much profit as possible, and the hell with the consequences to anybody else.

[hagenjr]

11:31 PM on 08/14/2011

I gotta tell you I shot the sig 1911 tactical last weekend and now I want one bad. Its a laser beam; way more accurate then my XDM.

[hagenjr]

11:25 PM on 08/14/2011

If they wanted to stop or slow the iron river all they need to do is make Holder resign.

He should be on trial for the too fast episode.

[WILLIEMOJORISIN]

05:45 PM on 08/14/2011

Is this the same ATF that sold hundreds of assault rifles to people they knew were hit men for Mex. drug lords ?

[RobD407]

09:48 PM on 08/15/2011

It was a crucial part of their plan to shut down the cartels.

1. Instruct gun shops to make suspicious large cash sales, in some cases NICS approves convicted felons.

2. Observe sales, then leave buyers unsupervised to traffic weapons over the border.

3. Don't tell anybody in Mexico the weapons are coming, they'll just screw it up.


4. When the guns show up at crime scenes in Mexico, arrest all the bad guys and shut down the cartels.

See, it's brilliantly simple. What could possibly go wrong?

[Fundamental2A]

12:53 PM on 08/08/2011

This is a defacto registration. There's nothing stopping the ATF from keeping the records indefinately.

[madinpahuff]

12:34 PM on 08/14/2011

Well, at least that what Holder & his bunch at the DOJ are thinking. There are intricacies involved however. They will probably explain their rationale beyond the obvious, "well those are the states that share land borders with Mexico, sooo....", and then what? The next states that share borders with those states? The seemingly simple process and right (or duty) of the ATF keeping "records" is not a certitude either, regardless of the bureaus' name and intended purpose. They have an orphan-like history as a bureau and their priorities through time have swayed. I personally find them a dangerous organization due to their allowed latitude of investigational and enforcement powers which have arguably exponentially increased since the 1970's era - not so long ago. They are tasked with a very difficult duty of balancing a treasured right by not infringing upon it, but simultaneously regulating it. Who is our bureau for free speech - the FCC? Perhaps. The ATF, under the umbrella of the DOJ & DHS needs, more than ever, to be carefully monitored precisely due to their powers & duties. If they want more power to function (besides more money - over $1.1 billion 2010), they are going to have to ask very nicely. †

[G NBanner]

12:39 PM on 08/08/2011

As a violence policy advocate, the steps needed to end gun violence are clear.

The First step is to take advantage of high profile incidents.
The Second step is to marginalize legal gun use and historic precedent.
The Third step is to make some guns seem more dangerous than others, even if they are not.
The Fourth step is to register every sale.
The Fifth step is a robust “Shall Issue” permitting process.
The Final step is to encourage and incentivize the forfeiture of arms.

http://tinyurl.com/4k346he

Bulk Sales Should Be Stopped. Period!

[carpelibertatem]

09:25 AM on 08/11/2011

Well, at least you're honest about your intent;

Step 1: leverage other peoples misfortunes for my own agenda
Step 2: Market gun owners as rednecks and criminals...lump them all into one box
Step 3: Lie
Step 4: Give the government more control over its citizens and turn more of those citizens into criminals.
Step 5: Throw some beaurocracy and paperwork at it because that always helps
Step 6: Take them away

Here's the bottom line, Mr. or Mrs. violence policy advocate: You can't have mine....ever. Laws or no laws; doesn't matter. And I have a whole lot of them. Big black scary ones, iddy-biddy concealable ones, really, really long range ones.

About a year ago a guy tried to jack my car. I can assure you that the custom-build, non-registered, .45 model 1911 pistol I keep under the seat of my jeep was a hell of a lot more effective than a cop on the other end of my phone. When confronted like that; I want violence and I want it in my hand, not four blocks away talking to a dispatcher. As it worked out, I held the guy until the cops got there and put his surprised ass in flex cuffs. Neither you, nor the government, will ever deny me the right to defend myself and my property.

[madinpahuff]

10:28 AM on 08/14/2011

A funny retort. I'm glad you were able to hold the "jacker" for the police. I would have paid some decent money to see that. I'm absolutely in your corner - I have the RIGHT to defend myself, my family, & my property. This guy Holder is out of his tree & the DOJ will lose this in court. †

[Harpo1129]

12:41 PM on 08/05/2011

David Carson 58 Fans Become a fan Unfan
10 minutes ago (12:26 PM) harpo--the "small package" joke went stale years ago
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Old or new, it was still just a joke. Lighten up David.

[David Carson]

09:57 PM on 08/05/2011

Why should I lighten up when the "progressive" civilian disarmament advocates keep shoveling the same old fertilizer. If you want me to lighten up--start respecting the BOR and drop the childish, petty insults

[hagagaga]

01:11 PM on 08/07/2011

The fertilizer that they shovel is the "naturally-occurring" fertilizer.

You know, the kind with the distinctive smell.

[kaveman3]

10:38 PM on 08/05/2011

"Old or new, it was still just a joke. Lighten up David. "

Hence why we continue to win. All your side has are penis jokes.

Keep up the good work. Your adolescent attacks help us more than they hurt us.

[amyandarthur]

11:11 AM on 08/05/2011

The S&P just went from 1350 to 1200..........People who invested in AR15s,M16s,etc,are sitting pretty.....assualt rifles are a Commodity, just like pork bellys and that is why some people make multiple purchases....it's called thinking outside the box!

[ScorpioTop]

01:00 PM on 08/05/2011

Hoarding guns is the absence of thinking

[David Carson]

01:25 PM on 08/05/2011

scorpio--before looking for the mote in my eye, remove the aircraft carrier from yours

[Dimensio]

02:35 PM on 08/05/2011

Your previous demonstrable reliance upon dishonest assertions disqualifies you as a credible source of information.

[pepper1311]

10:34 AM on 08/05/2011

Why would I go to a gun store and not buy 10-1000 rifles a day, no need for and extra trip. Wasted energy, we like to conserve.

[RobD407]

04:50 PM on 08/05/2011

The new reporting rule is for two or more purchases within five days, not "bulk". I doubt many folks would complain if reporting were limited to eight or ten rifles. ATF was already approving forty rifle purchases under Gunrunner.

[hagagaga]

03:05 PM on 08/07/2011

This rule is about buying two rifles within five days of each other.

A lot of people do that.

[pepper1311]

03:24 PM on 08/07/2011

I'm a farmer and have several hunting weapons. When one needs two a week, then your buying cheap. A good shot gun costs $ 3,000.00.

[Tao21Zen]

01:04 PM on 08/11/2011

"This rule is about buying two rifles within five days of each other.

A lot of people do that"

Anti-gunners simply do not understand this. It is not hard to imagine a gun collector coming across two or more really good deals and/or really rare finds within 5 days of each other.

In fact, I have an older friend with multiple retirements and plenty of disposable income/saving, who still chooses to work in a job that requires him to drive hundreds of miles a day. Every day he has periods of down time that he uses to visit different gun stores along his route. It is very easy for him to find great deals and/or rare finds on a daily basis. Having more than enough money to fund his hobby, he often purchases more than 2 rifles in a 5 day period.

[Harpo1129]

08:51 AM on 08/05/2011

David Carson 58 Fans Become a fan Unfan
13 hours ago (8:14 PM) why don't you come up with facts instead of ad homs
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

There's already massive scientific evidence proving climate change exists. But I'm not going to waste my time showing you facts. You wouldn't believe them anyway. Look it up yourself.

[FlyDiesel]

12:46 PM on 08/05/2011

NASA reported just the week before last that the atmosphere is not containing heat at the levels predicted by environmental models, and that this primary driver of warming models is, at best, “an unsolved problem". Science is not established by consensus- that’s political, not scientific.

http://www.mdpi.com/2072-4292/3/8/1603/pdf

I am a software engineer (an old one). I recall the frantic call to arms over “Y2K”. I was roundly castigated by my peers for saying that most systems would be corrected well in advance. Only marginal systems would be threatened- folks who had allowed their environment to deteriorate- and that such systems would not impact the economy. I based my judgements on experience and knowledge of the environments I was talking about. Most other experts were on the other side, and they ridiculed my writing. They were wrong, I was right. None apologized. As is typical for such charlatans, “they decamped with light hearts and heavy wallets” (apologies to Stan Kelly Bootle whom I loosely paraphrased).

I see parallels to climate science, of which I admit to knowing only a little. What I do know is that we want to encourage skepticism in science, not shut it down.

[David Carson]

01:28 PM on 08/05/2011

and Harpo is NOT addressing the point I was making--namely the histrionic claims of the civilian disarmament advocates are NOT facts

[Harpo1129]

01:30 PM on 08/05/2011

I would still prefer that we err on the side of caution. The time to close the barn door is while the horse is still inside not after it is already running loose in the fields. I think thta it's dangerous NOT to take this seriously. To give you another metaphor. You CANNOT put toothpast back in the tub once it's out no matter how hard you try.

[David Carson]

01:27 PM on 08/05/2011

Harpo--I was addressing the histrionic posts of the civilian disarmament advocates--not climate change--and trying to violate the BOR is NOT a progressive stance

[JohnyTL]

12:58 AM on 08/05/2011

The most reasonable law in the world.

[OdinsEye]

01:04 AM on 08/05/2011

This reporting requiremen­­­t has numerous problems, to include:

1) Possibly being enacted in an improper manner -- it likely exceeds the power of the executive branch

2) Possibly being unlawful in its scope -- it unequally applies to dealers of a specifice geographic area.

3) Being completely ineffectiv­­­e -- it is incredibly easy to circumvent

4) Having issues with the clarity of the criteria -- ".22 caliber" means different things to different people

5) Costs -- forms, reporting, record keeping, research, etc.

[JohnyTL]

01:37 AM on 08/05/2011

Then what are border laws if not geographically specific?

.22 Inches are the same everywhere.

How can you circumvent a size issue?

This is absurd!

[Iconcoclast]

01:37 AM on 08/05/2011

You just cannot repeat those points enough.

And not only incredibly easy to circumvent, but utterly irrelevant given the availability of weapons on the world market.

The more I think about it the more I believe this regulation is just more theater.

[HisXLNC]

04:33 PM on 08/14/2011

"The most reasonable law in the world."

So is the Patriot Act.

Every law is always reasonable to someone.

[amyandarthur]

11:51 PM on 08/04/2011

Since when does the United States Government work For Mexico?

They have their own border guards ,customs,etc.....It is up to Them to stop the smuggeling into Their country!

If the want us to stop guns going into Mexico.....Maybe they should show good faith by stopping Drugs from comming into the USA.

[nycpaladin]

12:47 AM on 08/05/2011

Can't happen--just think of the billions of pesos of bribes that would stop being paid to Federales and other policia.

[RobD407]

09:14 AM on 08/05/2011

You might like my brothers' idea, we need to build an impenetrable anti-gun-smuggling wall on the entire border so that no illegal (undocumented) guns can cross into Mexico. It will not only protect the people of Mexico from illegal (undocumented) guns trying to cross into their country but it will also stop illegal drugs from crossing into ours and the drug gangs will lose easy access to our market and the resulting huge profits. It would certainly stop casual border crossings, though might not deter drug tunnels, which could be used in both directions. The only potential problem I can see is that it might make it harder for casual "migratory" workers to get here for jobs.

[ElmCreekSmith]

04:15 PM on 08/05/2011

"The only potential problem I can see is that it might make it harder for casual 'migratory' workers to get here for jobs."

Oh, well! I take care of my own lawn, and my wife cleans the house. Guess I won't miss those 'migratory' workers.

ECS

[barry444]

10:47 PM on 08/04/2011

The NRA will win this lawsuit easily. The ATF blatantly violated the law by imposing this requirement despite Congress saying it couldn't. The arrogance of this agency is out of control. The ATF should never have survived the 90s.

[ScorpioTop]

01:03 PM on 08/05/2011

Arrogant describes the NRA. They push for gun proliferation while 30,000 Americans are killed by gun use yearly.

[Dimensio]

02:38 PM on 08/05/2011

You are not a credible source of information, following your reliance upon demonstrable lies.

[barry444]

04:08 PM on 08/05/2011

What year are you referring to that 30,000 Americans are killed by gun use?

[BKearney]

08:37 PM on 08/04/2011

Mexican drug lords need guns too

[rikilii]

08:40 PM on 08/04/2011

They sleep on piles of 100 dollar bills.  Do you really think that a reporting requirement will keep them from arming their henchmen?

[BKearney]

09:01 PM on 08/04/2011

Your right lets just give up

[hagagaga]

10:24 PM on 08/04/2011

That's true. That's why they get them from the southern border of Mexico, where the weapons are cheaper, easier to smuggle, and fully-automatic.

[BKearney]

10:54 PM on 08/04/2011

ore than 70% of 29,284 firearms submitted to the U.S. Department of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives for tracing by the Mexican government during 2009 and 2010 originated in the United States, according to the report.

oppps

[Iconcoclast]

10:58 PM on 08/04/2011

No way! You mean the fragmentation grenades, automatic weaponry, and RPG's aren't coming from the USA?!! Impossible--according to the administration at least 70% of cartel weapons are coming from stores in the USA! You know, those stores that sell automatic weapons, crew-served weapons, grenades and RPG's. I think it is called Sam's Military Mart--get all your mercenary gear here is their slogan.

/sarc

[ShowMeC6]

06:39 PM on 08/04/2011

I