Does Class Size Really Matter?

Salon:

This article was adapted from the new book "The Good School: How Smart Parents Get Their Kids the Education They Deserve," available Aug. 16 from Henry Holt.

Few things about a school seem to matter more to parents than class size. For many of us it is the litmus test for a well-run school. Small class size speaks of a school that is focused on putting resources in the right place -- not administrative retreats, paneling for the principal's office, or expensive but rarely used class-room technology. Small class size is a signal to us that a hundred smaller decisions that accompany the running of a school have been shaped with our children as a priority. As a result, a school is able to invest in an appropriate number of teachers.

Read the whole story: Salon

Comments

[navigio]

02:50 PM on 08/10/2011

for anyone interested, here is the rand report she references:
http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/rgs_dissertations/2006/RGSD156.pdf

i am also quite shocked by some of her conclusions because they actually seem to contradict many things said in the rand report (agenda anyone?). i hope to write up a more detailed analysis of why i believe that at some point in the future..

[HockeyMom]

01:50 PM on 08/10/2011

But the rich will never make their little darlings suffer in a large class room, it's just for you and me and our little brats/future slaves.

[sonjasmom]

07:13 PM on 08/09/2011

Observations on class size (primary grades) after they went up 40% from one year to the next:
1 - Teacher still assigns homework but doesn't have time to check it.
2 - Kids can't hear what's going on in class because there are so many other kids, not all of whom are well behaved.
3 - Parents spending more time helping the kids with their homework because the kids couldn't learn it in class - teacher has no time to make sure everyone grasps the material.
4 - The so-called "all important" standardized test scores won't be out for a few weeks and then we'll get to see how the larger class size affects them.

[Dede Eagleburger]

10:00 AM on 08/09/2011

It makes a difference what ages/grades you are talking about. Elementary kids need to be in smaller classes (15-20 or so) because they need to get more individual attention, particularly those that need more help with reading and other basic aptitudes. Once they get to high school, we can manage larger classes (25-30 or so) a little bit better.
One other disadvantage to having larger class sizes - it's hard to assign as many class presentations and oral reports because the more kids you have in class, the more class time has to be allocated for those assignments because it takes longer to get through all of the presentations. You end up having to fall back on tests, and tests don't completely measure how much they have learned, IMO.

[navigio]

04:33 AM on 08/09/2011

Too bad the article didnt make the distinction between class size and student to teacher ratio more clear. Generally speaking, the latter is much lower than most traditional class sizes because the average is brought down by very small class sizes for sped ed and sometimes ell and to some extent, poorly-attended electives in middle or high schools. For example, in our district the student to teacher ratio is 20:1, the average class size is just under 25 but there is not a classroom in our elementary schools that is near 25 and most are in the low to mid 30s.

[sydneymoon]

08:46 AM on 08/09/2011

In addition, our state includes the music, art, p.e., etc. teachers in the ratio.these are not classroom teachers who have the students daily.

[sidnee]

05:41 PM on 08/08/2011

Class size wouldn't matter if EVERY child was well behaved, willing to work, on grade level and picking up new concepts quickly. YOu could pack them in. However, I've never taught in a classroom where that happens. I have children at all different levels and needs. Also, by averages, the more children in a classroom, the more discipline problems you have. I'm not just talking about kids with severe issues. I'm also talking about room to move, competing for the teacher's attention etc. So yes, class size does matter if you want quality education.

[formerLAresident]

01:42 PM on 08/08/2011

Yes! Yes! Yes, just ask the politicians we voted for... from our Prez on down to the State level who not only send their children to private schools with small classes but benefited from a small class size. Unfortunately, these are the same people we elected and decided to throw public education under the bus by destroying it with inadequate funding, charter schools and throwing the WMD's (unions, teachers, tenure) as a reason for Teach For American, student uniforms and testing, testing, testing. As for the 'good old days' people who continually preach about when they were young classes had 30plus students that everyone did well....'get over it,' times have change and contrary to what you think not everyone did well. It's similar to the same myth that the school haters preach, that only the teacher is responsible for the success of a student. Totally disregarding the impact of parents, socio-economic status, local/state/fed funding, etc.... The destruction of our schools by the politicians are being helped by the very people/families that need it the most..because most people want to believe fiction instead of facts and shift the responsibility from themselves to the educators.

[er2blu]

12:59 PM on 08/08/2011

Class sizes are generally smaller now then they've ever been with some getting an "aide" to help with the great class size "burden" a teacher is forced to bear.... When I was in school, 30-35 kids in every class was the rule and we all did fine. Took the SAT's and most went to college and were adeqately prepared for it
Now with all the advantages and money that's thrown at education today and yet, kids graduate and can barely read if they can at all. Kids today seem to only have mastered texting and the social media!! Sure there are good schools but the majority just don't seem to be cutting it.... and it's not just the schools fault. Paren't share an equal load of the blame.

[mediateacher]

01:08 PM on 08/08/2011

When did you go to school? Where did you go to school? I ask this only to highlight the difference between the classrooms you reference in your post and the classrooms that exist today, throughout our country. I went to school in the 80s in a middle class suburb. I can't compare my experience with my current students. Huge difference.

[sidnee]

05:44 PM on 08/08/2011

Where do you see schools with aides in the classroom to help? I'd love to work there! I have to teach my 30-31 1st graders on my own. Have had to do this every year I've taught--as the class size has creeped up. I taught before the class size reductions--taught through it--and am on the back end with class sizes increasing. I do agree with you on kids taking responsibility for their education. I could care less if it is boring--you have to learn it. We've become a society where the expectation is --if I"m not feeling it, then I'm not doing it. Kids have no consequences for screwing around in class, but teachers sure do if the kids aren't proving they learned the material.

[mediateacher]

12:59 PM on 08/08/2011

Class size is critical for all grades, particularly when you eliminate tracking and teach a heterogeneous group. Many students have questions that may not get addressed when the class size exceeds 25-30. Also, you have to consider discipline and comportment of students. It is easier to manage individual behaviors when there are fewer in the classroom.

In a nutshell, trust teachers when they say class size matters. We have the experience straight from the classroom.

[mikey09]

12:55 PM on 08/08/2011

One grandson started HS this yr, average class size is 17 and one started Kindegarten, he has 11 in his class.... I like their school.

[J R M]

11:51 AM on 08/08/2011

I suspect that class size is more critical for early grades than it is for later grades.

That said, as you increase the class size, you are going to decrease the teacher time per student - at the very minimum, the teacher cannot spend as much time per student grading papers, homework, tests, etc. The teacher has to cut back. There is a big difference between 25 and 40 students. And this assumes that you have a disciplined and well behaved class. If you have a modest level of disaffected students, going from 25 to 40 students could increase the number of trouble-makers from 2 to 4, resulting in a transition from relative order to chaos.

[hculliton]

11:22 AM on 08/08/2011

Hmm...can I provide a better education to twenty kids at a time or forty?

[mando45]

10:01 AM on 08/08/2011

Quality of teacher is more important that class size. For languages, 12-15 students is ideal if you truely expect students to speak at the end of the year. But 20 is a decent compromise considering budgets.

[sidnee]

05:47 PM on 08/08/2011

Quality of teacher doesn't mean squat in a classroom if there are tremendous discipline issues and disruptions or kids who don't care. The bigger the class size, the more on average discipline problems you will have.

[GlennWatson]

10:00 AM on 08/08/2011

If the students are well behaved I could have a hundred in one class. Its all about behavior.

[sidnee]

05:47 PM on 08/08/2011

I would also argue motivation as well. It's a combo of the two.

[wellalwayshavemaine]

09:12 AM on 08/08/2011

One of the troubles with class size here in the states is that the argument fails to take into account the diversity of a typical American classroom. I taught in the Japanese junior high school system for four years, and I went to catholic school as a kid; both of these settings are homogenous which allows for high numbers in the same classroom without tension. I did some teaching in CA and was amazed by how one teacher is expected to reach kids from a myriad of cultures, mindsets, etc.