Education Chief: Make Teachers Pay For Cheating

Connecticut Post:

HARTFORD -- School employees found helping students cheat on state standardized test shouldn't only lose their jobs, they should pay to clean up the mess, acting Commissioner of Education George Coleman said Wednesday.

Faced with having to shell out $20,000 or more to pay for an investigation into allegations of cheating at an elementary school in Waterbury, Coleman told the state Board of Education state statutes need to be stronger to level penalties to recoup the costs incurred as a result of testing improprieties.

Read the whole story: Connecticut Post

Comments

[broui]

12:57 AM on 08/15/2011

This idea reminds me of when we prosecuted the soldiers at Abu Graib.

We got the small fish and ended it there. Now, we don't talk or even think about it collectively much anymore. We got our vengence.

Then we should have gone as high up the ranks as possible and root out the policy that made that possible. Prosecuting people would be nice, but making sure we don't do it again was more important.

Here, with the cheating scandal(s), we're going after some teachers when we're not getting rid of the problem. NCLB and this corporate (hostile) takeover of public education in America.

These people - good and bad teachers, whatever, we will never really know - acted out of desperation in reaction to a rigged game they know they can't win regardless of how good they are. I don't excuse their actions, but stopping at them and vilifying them further won't end the madness.

[fredpa]

05:37 AM on 08/15/2011

Your analogy is good, but in both cases it's difficult to tell when the line has been crossed between "get it done" and "get it done at any cost." I can't tell you how many principals who've told me that their superintendents said they were to move the scores or they were gone. There are so many nuances on both sides of a conversation like that that it's pretty much impossible to get to that "beyond a reasonable doubt" point.

I also agree with you that what the teachers did was inexcusable, largely because they were injuring students directly.

[stape45]

10:18 PM on 08/14/2011

And while we're at it, there are these shady financial institutions.....

[viking1969]

09:29 PM on 08/14/2011

Yeah,l just like the bankers, wall street grifters and politicans who lied, aided and abetted us into a recession.

[stape45]

09:17 PM on 08/14/2011

If they want teachers to be held financially responsible, then let their pay reflect that. Some of them are already purchasing school supplies for their students.

[Olderandwiser55]

03:56 PM on 08/14/2011

Is this what we've come to? Teachers defending cheating.....because they were "pressured" or even told to cheat. By this definition wall street employees did nothing wrong-Madoff was pressured into his ponzi scheme (he was aghast at impossible returns others were making-he had to cheat to win). In any profession, there is pressure to cheat to win. Now, I'm sorry it's like that-ethics is at an all time low. But teachers that cheat should not be teachers. The SEC will take away the license of a financial employee because they did what their boss told then-because it violates ethics rules. And essentially end their career.

What kind of ethics do people have that makes teachers cheating okay? You should be embarrassed.

[fredpa]

05:39 AM on 08/15/2011

What we've come to is ethics taking a back seat to what can be proven to be legal or not.

[jvonkorff]

02:48 PM on 08/14/2011

If teaching to the test results in bad teaching, then the test is asking the wrong questions. The vast anti-testing movement is partly founded on a desire to conceal unacceptable student performance, and partly a response to unrealistic expectations that all students must exceed artificial proficiency standards. The problem is not standardized testing: regular standardized testing provides invaluable information to teachers, parents and students on their progress. Good teachers give tests regularly. Standardized testing -- when used to provide real time data to teachers and administrators -- is banishing the former practice of telling parents that a student is making acceptable progress, when the student is failing to learn to read, write, and do mathematics and science. The problem with standardized testing is its abuse under No Child Left Behind and its misuse by politicians, pundits and think tanks to attack teachers and public education.

But that abuse is not an excuse to cheat, nor a justification for extending sympathy to the cheaters. If teachers don't like the tests or curriculum, instead of cheating, they can boycott the testing, take a job action, march on the Department of Education, write letters to the editors, chain themselves to the State Capitol Building, or any number of ethical devices that can reform the system.

[broui]

01:06 AM on 08/15/2011

The problem is in fact standardized testing.

Teachers do not know what are on these tests. We do not have access to them prior to the tests. We are required to teach to a set of "standards" or "benchmarks" and told these tests will cover what we're teaching.

But they don't. Reading tests don't allow a student to figure out words they don't know in context - a basic skill any responsible English teacher teaches. Writing test readers take short cuts and end up looking for rather formulaic stuff - any flourishing or work on the part of the test reader results in low scores for the student, regardless of quality.

Math is not based on computation but on understading formulas.

These problems are tip of the iceburg. They run much much deeper.

These tests are built poorly.

Tests tell me very little about my students' progress in their skills. Socratic seminars, essays, annotation with critical commentary - these are the sorts of things that are far more valuable in formatively assessing the growth of my students.

Standardized test exist to grade schools and ultimately teachers. But they are an inaccurate measurement of students' growth and learning for a myriad of reasons.

[fredpa]

05:49 AM on 08/15/2011

Well said. Any business or program needs to examine data to determine its effectiveness. Tests can do that, and do no harm. The policy climate around tests and the reactions to those policies give rise to the abuses. If you want your scores to improve, teach a better program. Data show that balanced programs, those that include an emphasis on the core curriculum, but are also rich in the arts, score better.

If Broui's Socratic seminars are done well and appropriately, tests are no threat. Many states do not think they can afford the transparency to release their tests, and that "secrecy" gives rise to the suspicion that the tests are irrelevant to real learning.

[jimtpat]

12:45 PM on 08/14/2011

Couldn't we get a lot more money by making the oligarchs who destroyed our economy pay?

They're sitting on quite a bit right now.

[Ariel Bonzai]

06:08 AM on 08/15/2011

Seriously, Duncan and Deasy are Gates clones, Broad is buying up NPR and schools as is Walton. They are running the country and I keep imagining Obama with a gun to his head because they will not be happy until they take over the world. The only ones who can stop these maniacs is us-- we are the people! I will not give another cent to Walmart, to Microsoft and I will march with SOS and be in their proverbial faces until my dying breath. Democracy is about the greater good. Not money. It works or we would never have seen what we barely got a glimpse of (thanks to the media Machine compliance with said ogres) in Egypt and elsewhere. I don't care if they are dead white dudes with fatal flaws and jungle fever, our forefather's were hep cats and they were down. I am inspired and enlightened by these men ( and Mrs. Adams who had tremendous influence) . I am taking a stand. And so should you.

[dutch163]

11:52 AM on 08/14/2011

there is NO way I condone cheating...however..the rash of cheating scandals tells us something:
too much pressure on teachers, administrators, schools to "perform"...too much emphasis on tests..
when it means your job, well, maybe reason to cheat..
tests should be only part of student/teacher assessment...
In NY, there is a law that only 20% of teacher evaluation can be based on test results...then the Regents unilaterally made it 40% (breaking the law)...
I taught for 40 years..never would cheat on test scoring...and I loved teaching...but glad I am retired..feeling sorry for those still in teaching...very difficult time in education

[christopherflynn]

01:08 PM on 08/14/2011

Great teachers should never feel pressure...their work and ethics set them above the folk who teach because they couldn't make it in another field (which is very prevalent in American education).
It's very difficult in education in these times due to the fact that educational standards have been lowered to accomodate the idea that a child's "self-esteem" is more important than being adequately prepared to deal with a changing world...
-a former teacher

[dutch163]

02:09 PM on 08/14/2011

good observations...
in NY we used to have Regents and non-Regents diplomas, and it was a good standard..
then they decided to do Regents for all..
we predicted, accurately, that the drop out rate would increase..
then they "dumbed down" the tests
now htye are eliminating some Regents..
they just should have left it the way it was

[Olderandwiser55]

03:43 PM on 08/14/2011

Sure, the cheating on wall street tells us a lot about the pressure they were under too. And believe me, there is immense pressure there....but that is NO excuse in either case. Sickening.

So teaching is a lot like wall street now. Very difficult time indeed.

[dutch163]

03:53 PM on 08/14/2011

except you can make a LOT more money on Wall St...
the difference? cheating on Wall St to make bundles of $$
cheating on tests? just to keep a (not so well paying) job

[GlennWatson]

09:48 AM on 08/14/2011

Teachers must pay if they cheat. Teachers must pay if the kids do poorly on the test.

I see a problem.

[christopherflynn]

02:18 PM on 08/14/2011

a major one indeed..........

[Olderandwiser55]

03:27 PM on 08/14/2011

I also do....but teachers cheating could not be more wrong. I see this as a problem in many professions-"lie and cheat or you will be fired" (I was in the financial advisory and quit) but...teachers that cheat should not be teachers. Financial advisers that advise a client to invest in a ponzi schemes should be fired...

[Ariel Bonzai]

06:30 PM on 08/13/2011

I love this idea, but what about the leaders who put them up to it?

[Fallfest]

04:38 PM on 08/13/2011

If the Hartford incident were the only incident in our nation, this truly would be surprising news. However, incidents such as these have been known to have taken place nationwide -- and uncovered more recently in Georgia and the District of Columbia. Without question, many more incidents of admin & faculty cheating went by undetected for many years. I support some kind of redress of these cheating scandals because they are costly -- yes! -- and they "cheat" students AND parents of resources that could have been used as early academic interventions if the true status of the struggling student's academic progress had not been covered up by teachers. The caveat I lift up is that investigators must be certain of exactly who is involved and must have evidence rather than hearsay.

[eceresa]

05:51 PM on 08/13/2011

That'd be the case, if the "early academic interventions" usually required when a score has low test scores actually worked. In reality, they don't. They're just unfunded requirements that divert funding from the classroom.

It's not at all unlikely that the kids at the schools that have had these scandals received a better education because of the cheating than they would have if the scores were honestly reported and the laws followed. That's not to excuse the cheating. It's wrong to cheat. But with the current national regulations, it's also wrong not to cheat, since it results in a bad outcome for kids. It's a complicated situation, and there isn't really any right option available.

[Fallfest]

02:33 AM on 08/14/2011

Thanks for your reply which indicates that you, like most of us, are struggling to make sense of this as we strive to navigate toward some reasonable resolution. You are right - it is a very complicated situation. You must know that I am a pre-school teacher, so when I say "early academic intervention", I mean EARLY (during 3 and 4 years of age -- the pre-school years)! Failing that, the kindergarten year should be a year of detecting barriers to learning and removing those barriers or perhaps placing kids in special education or contained environments conducive to learning.

[GlennWatson]

04:36 PM on 08/13/2011

The teachers are not the problem. Its the administrations that all but force teacher to change tests.

[djo2013]

06:06 PM on 08/13/2011

In the Georgia case, the admin was definitely pressuring teachers. I work in such a different atmosphere in my district that I can't imagine what that felt like, but I do hope I've been around long enough to know that unethical behaviors by admin and teachers do get found out, and I'd refuse to add to the problem by cheating. Our district warns us not to even THINK about influencing tests in any way once they're under way. I don't even look at the kids' test books after they start, except to gather them up when done, put them in their special box, and take them to the room where they're locked with all of the school's tests before they're sent for processing.

[GlennWatson]

07:38 PM on 08/13/2011

There is no way the teachers could have cheated on their own. The administration had to know and in fact had to order it or it would not have been done.

[Ariel Bonzai]

06:33 PM on 08/13/2011

Be that as it may, they should have taken a stand. I do not violate my codes or the law just because my administrator orders me too and if every one of us had the courage to do that, these cheating scandals and that test would be beside the point.

[GlennWatson]

07:37 PM on 08/13/2011

That's very noble but I have learned that people respond to incentives and costs. When a boss tells you to do something we quite often do it. That's reality. Maybe you are above such concerns or better than other people.

[Olderandwiser55]

03:33 PM on 08/14/2011

Thank you! People should not ignore ethics, I don't care who told them to...I am always in the teachers corner-but not here. They should be fired as anyone in any profession should. By some of these comments, Drs should never be fired if there was administrative pressure to do it...thanks for your courage

[Rick Ayers]

02:57 PM on 08/13/2011

Amazing. If it were Wall Street bankers caught cheating, they'd be invited to the White House. If you marketize education, expect the same kind of results you get in the markets. . . cheating.

[Olderandwiser55]

03:40 PM on 08/14/2011

Not true-those cheaters risk jail, the loss of their professional license, livelihood...how can educators defend this? Ironically, that is the wall street defense...he made me do it...that was even madoff's defense (he had to surpass the competition). Not to mention, even if that were true, teachers should have ethics like wall street?

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/06/30/mortgage-executive-receives-30-year-sentence/

[navigio]

12:34 PM on 08/13/2011

how about having stronger laws to recoup the cost of poverty? I really wish someone would do a study looking at what poverty costs us instead doing studies on what bad teachers cost us, even without having a way to define 'bad teachers'.

[eceresa]

04:51 PM on 08/13/2011

We know what bad teachers are. While there's no explicit definition, current education policy makes it very clear what good and bad teachers look like:

Bad teachers are the ones who actually try to teach kids instead of endlessly prepping them for standardized tests. Bad teachers are any with more than five years of experience. Bad teachers are the ones in a union. Bad teachers are the ones that want to keep teaching instead of doing a year or two and then moving on to something that pays more.

[djo2013]

06:08 PM on 08/13/2011

That makes me BAD, BAD, really really BAD. (a-la Michael Jackson). ;-).

[Spike5]

10:07 PM on 08/13/2011

That sure seems to be the definition these days. Get students to pass the standardized test? Good job. Teach them the actual content and subject matter? Waste of time.

Sure, there are bad teachers. There are bad secretaries, bad nurses, bad doctors, bad truck drivers, and even bad bank presidents. (We won't talk about Wall Street because sometimes it seems like they are ALL bad.) But most teachers I know are dedicated, hard-working, caring people who have imagined themselves as teachers from the time they played 'school' when they were kids. How can we claim to value our children and education and not respect the people who have chosen to teach them? I just don't understand. And--I'm not a teacher and I knew from the time I was a tot that I never wanted to be one. It's way too hard a job.

[eceresa]

11:35 AM on 08/13/2011

So we demand results from them that, with some student populations, can't be obtained without cheating... and then we fire them and fine them when they cheat.

Sounds sensible. So long as the object is to degrade the quality of education further.