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California High-Speed Rail Faces Trouble In Palo Alto -- And More In Washington

High Speed California

First Posted: 08/23/11 05:23 PM ET Updated: 10/24/11 06:12 AM ET

ATHERTON, Calif. -- Walk down Ashfield Road in this well-heeled town of 7,000 on the San Francisco Peninsula and you'll find million-dollar homes surrounded by tall fences and lush, manicured landscaping. Down by the railroad tracks at the end of the street, the post office, the police department, the library and a small town hall cluster together -- a perfectly self-contained unit of municipal government.

It conjures a postcard vision of the way the Golden State was always meant to look, its residents must think -- before politicians brought California to the brink of ruin with decades of financial mismanagement and pie-in-the-sky ideas.

Now this town fears one of those crazy schemes will land right where Ashfield Road meets a commuter railroad's right of way. High-speed rail is coming to Atherton's back yard, and Atherton isn't happy about it.

However testy Atherton may get, though, if a high-speed train does whisk down these tracks at 125 miles per hour, it will be a sign that the United States is still a country that can build big, daring infrastructure projects. And it will be a sign that the country is willing to spend big, on the scale of $60 billion dollars or more, on ambitious public projects that might create hundreds of thousands of well-paying jobs.

The train would prove that Dick Durbin was wrong when he spoke about the death of Keynesian economics during the deficit debate. The project has secured more than $3.6 billion in federal funding guarantees, making it perhaps the most daring recipient of economic stimulus funding under the Recovery Act.

If the train never comes, the moral of the high-speed rail story will be considerably more complex. Residents, legislators and analysts are likely to dispute its meaning for decades, every time bullet trains are offered as a solution to the transportation problems of an America where highways only get more crowded, airplanes less reliable and gas prices more infuriating.

Countries from France and Spain to China and the central Asian nation of Uzbekistan have built high-speed rail lines. In America, however, even Amtrak’s Acela trains often travel at speeds no greater than those once accomplished by steam engines.

Meanwhile, California's high-speed rail program hangs in a state of suspended animation, with boosters confident that ground will be broken in late 2012 as planned, and opponents equally certain they have already killed it.

The critics got more ammunition two weeks ago when California's High-Speed Rail Authority announced that just one segment would cost $3 to $6 billion more than planned -- and the cost of the total project could skyrocket even more in October when the authority releases a business plan.

"The cost of a project of this magnitude are always going to have some variance," said Thomas Umberg, chairman of board for the High-Speed Rail Authority. "In my view this is not a significant variance."

Umberg is confident the project will proceed. "I do not think the project is in danger," he said. "I think that the leadership exists in California and elsewhere to complete the project. And I think that the popular support for the project in California will also continue."

For now, the leadership to which Umberg referred is toeing the line. Last Wednesday high-speed rail got a vote of confidence from Governor Jerry Brown, who campaigned as a backer but had lately seemed to waiver, when he told the Fresno Bee that he still supported the project. "I would like to be part of the group that gets America to think big again," Brown said.

Just holding on to Jerry Brown, however, might not be enough.

HIGH-SPEED HOPES

The Golden State's dream of a bullet train between Los Angeles and San Francisco started back in 1996, with the establishment of the High-Speed Rail Authority. For years that agency, underfunded and understaffed, had a whiff of science fiction about it. Then in 2008, the state passed a referendum, Proposition 1A, hoping that it could knit together Northern and Southern California while creating jobs to lift the state out of its Great Recession doldrums.

Price tag: $9.95 billion in state bonds, to be matched by federal funds and complemented by private investment, for a total of $45 billion spent. It would be the largest infrastructure project in the nation, something as audacious in its aims as the Interstate Highway System. The pro argument in California's voter guide touted the project's potential to create 160,000 construction jobs and 450,000 permanent jobs.

Daniel Curtin, director of the California Conference of Carpenters, said "the jobs themselves in building it are quite substantial, but more important is the economic engine in it that drives economic development."

If the train is built, he believes, far-flung places like Fresno, which is currently "three hours from everywhere," would essentially become suburbs of the state's two big metro areas. "There are foothills in Fresno that are fabulous, just beautiful, but you can't get there. It's easier to get to Tahoe, for crying out loud, from the Bay area."

When Prop 1A passed, bullet train boosters were ecstatic. The then-chairman of the authority, Quentin Kopp, said the vote proved Californians were "as intrepid and energetic as the argonauts of the 19th century and our forefathers during the Depression who built the Golden Gate Bridge and the Bay Bridge."

Kopp neglected to mention that the vote approving the Golden Gate Bridge happened long before the Depression. The California State Legislature created a bonding authority to finance the project in 1923. Another ten years passed before construction began, then another four years before the bridge was finished. Nobody expected California's train to be done before 2020, but if Kopp's analogy is more apt than he intended, it would be 2018 before the state breaks ground.

The Golden Gate Bridge's design employed a novel design that allowed it to sway in the wind, and perfecting that innovation, along with the manifold other challenges involved in engineering the bridge, took years of hard work. The high-speed train project has taken so long, however, not because it is engineering innovative new trains -- the state can simply buy those off the shelf from Europe or Japan -- but because it must assemble the nuts and bolts of financing and a route plan.

A typical week on the authority's calendar from last year highlights some of the many political stakeholders who need to be placated or at least disarmed along the railroad's 800-mile stretch: a meeting at the Rancho Cordova Rotary Club, a public information meeting in Fresno, a meeting with the Southern California Association of Governments, a scoping meeting in Stockton, a community meeting in Anaheim, another scoping meeting in Merced, and a legislative hearing held by two state senators in Palo Alto City Hall.

High-speed rail is an all-state effort, but if California is ever going to build the system, it will have to break ground in some smaller section of the state. Yet what might seem natural for the first phase -- putting tracks along the highly populated areas near San Francisco and Los Angeles, so trains could start running immediately and making money -- isn’t what will happen.

In order for the high-speed rail project to receive federal stimulus money, it needed to prove that it could start building quickly, before the 2012 deadline included in the Recovery Act. For that reason, the state will have to break ground along the path of least resistance. And one reason why a San Francisco spur won't be where high-speed rail debuts: the angry citizens of Atherton and its partners on the peninusla, Menlo Park and Palo Alto.

PALO ALTO'S BERLIN WALL

Most people involved in the rail debate seem to agree that while the High-Speed Rail Authority was busy drawing up its routes and negotiating with federal officials, it was doing an abysmal job of communicating with the people whose homes would soon neighbor its tracks. There weren't enough meetings on its calendar, and the ones that were happening weren't going very well, especially on the San Francisco Peninsula's shoulder.

Take Atherton. The strange thing is, this town already has trains. It's had them for a long time, and they've always been ugly and noisome. At least nine passenger trains an hour blow through here at peak times. Cars halt at the railroad crossing. Horns blare so Caltrain can ferry its loads of commuters to and from San Francisco. Discussions in the town hall -- including hearings aimed at killing high-speed rail -- pause when the trains come through.

Despite all that, there seems to be something about the train Atherton doesn't know that is scarier than the one it does.

And it's not just Atherton, even though this Republican outpost in an otherwise liberal congressional district has always served as a convenient poster child for intransigent conservatism. In nearby Palo Alto, which supported the high-speed train referendum by a 2 to 1 margin, signs of dissent were surfacing just five months later.

At a meeting in the city, the Metroactive paper reported "protesters holding signs saying 'Deceived by Prop. 1A' ... charging that elevated train tracks above cross streets, and proposed security barriers, will divide their community like a Berlin Wall."

Some of those protesters, of course, had opposed high-speed rail from the start. But others were taken aback by the realization, prompted by the authority's environmental review process, that it could take a hulking viaduct, hoisted 40 feet or so in the air and bearing four tracks, to send the trains through their town without slowing down for road crossings.

Thus began the Berlin Wall metaphor, which has likely done more than anything else to curb enthusiasm for fast rail on the peninsula. Rod Diridon, the executive of the Mineta Transportation Institute and the chair emeritus of the High-Speed Rail Authority Board, acknowledged problems with the effort's outreach efforts.

For one slice of Californians, he said, that part of the "the conservative group who are going to oppose any major investments, especially investments that are going to undermine the automobile," there was no way to save high-speed rail. They are part, he said, of an effort promoting "carefully choreographed skepticism on high-speed rail across the nation."

But for other people, the "maybe 15 to 25 percent that want high-speed rail, but are skeptical of the way it's being pursued," the authority fell down on the job. One public relations group was contracted to handle the statewide outreach, engineers were left to talk to people in cities and towns, and the result was a mess. Locals criticized Diridon himself for an "abrasive" public-speaking style.

State Senator Joe Simitian, who represents the area, said that part of the problem was that "you have a relatively small agency" -- which at one point just a few years ago had only 11 employees -- that "woke up one morning, after the election was over, and discovered they were responsible for the design, development, operation and financing of a $43-billion megaproject, and that has not been a smooth transition. And perhaps with benefit of hindsight, we should not have expected it to be a smooth transition."

Others agree.

"From 2008 to 2010, we went from playing fantasy football to playing in the NFL," acknowledged Thomas Umberg, the chairman of the High-Speed Rail Authority's board.

As the planning process dragged on from 2008 to 2010, opposition along the peninsula and elsewhere in California deepened.

"SHOULD WE BUILD PYRAMIDS?"

On January 28, 2010, President Obama announced the winners of the competition for the billions of dollars for high-speed rail included in the Recovery Act. California applied for $4.7 billion; it received $2.25 billion. That fell far short of the $17 billion to $19 billion in federal funds the authority said it would eventually need, but it was a start.

Last fall and winter, the federal government gave the program additional funding boosts of more than a billion dollars. But that money was something of a double-edged sword. For starters, California only got some of it because Republican governors had launched a national assault on high-speed rail.

In Wisconsin, Scott Walker campaigned on a pledge of refusing $810 million in funding from the feds, calling it a "controversial train boondoggle ... that taxpayers literally cannot afford." In Ohio, Governor-elect John Kasich's spokesman referred to a "so-called" high-speed rail project that was "wildly unrealistic." Kasich, presaging this year's deficit battle, requested that the money be used to pay down the federal deficit, not to create public works programs that might generate jobs.

State officials in California were ecstatic about the windfall those governors' decisions represented for them. But the new federal funds came with a catch: California would have to start construction in the state's Central Valley, better known for its grape growers than its cities.

The feds had gotten wind of the peninsula's high-pitched agita over high-speed rail and feared it could prevent speedy construction. The benefits of turning to the Central Valley instead: flat land and a desperate need for jobs, which translated to increased support from local politicians. The drawback: There weren't many people ready to ride trains in the Central Valley.

Diridon, the chair emeritus of the High-Speed Rail Authority, defended the decision to build in the Central Valley. If people on the peninsula "decide they want to raise hell, they can do so, and they have in previous years and it's caused huge delays," he said. So it was better to start in the Central Valley, and to try and work out a compromise on the peninsula in the meantime.

That compromise, if it is to come, will need to work around a pending lawsuit. In October of 2010, just as California was getting more money for rail, the municipalities of Palo Alto, Menlo Park and Atherton did raise a little hell. They sued the High-Speed Rail Authority, alleging that its ridership and revenue forecasts were so off-base that they were fundamentally flawed, according to reporting in the Palo Alto Patch. They made particular use of alleged violations of the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA), long a friend of those determined to thwart development in the state.

In interviews with HuffPost, two Democratic Palo Alto councilmen who voted for Proposition 1A vented their frustration with the high-speed rail program and described the growth of their opposition towards it.

Palo Alto Councilman Larry Klein is a Democrat who was endorsed by the Sierra Club in his last election. But in the months after Prop 1A's passage, he became concerned -- at first, about that Berlin Wall of a viaduct. But then his concerns grew to cover more "macro" issues.

"The more you get into this -- as many of us have over the past two years after the voters passed the bond measure in the '08 election -- the numbers just don't work," Klein said. "The people who were the chief proponents, I think, were more enthusiastic than realistic."

Klein's opposition to high-speed rail is not on the ideological level -- he doesn't deny that economic stimulus spending can create jobs -- but he does share the GOP's skepticism over high-speed rail projects.

"There are infrastructure projects and there are infrastructure projects. You can't just look at all of them and say they're all the same. Egypt three or four thousand years ago had a big infrastructure project called the pyramids. Should we build pyramids just because that'll create a lot of jobs?"

Decrying the "mad rush to chase federal dollars," Councilman Pat Burt said, "We don't have the money to have one of the best local commuter train systems survive, because we're borrowing all this money to pay for things like high-speed rail, which is looking more and more like a boondoggle."

Concerns like Burt and Klein's marked a shift in opposition to the rail project. Whereas complaints over ridership estimates had previously been the province of conservative and libertarian outfits like the Reason Foundation (which released a highly critical report just before the Proposition 1A vote alleging that the San Francisco-to-Los Angeles line would lose $4.17 billion a year), opposition was now filtering down to relatively liberal local politicos.

THE WASHINGTON QUESTION

The metastasis of this argument against high-speed rail, as typically pushed by Republicans -- that it simply cannot make money in the United States, or maybe just not outside of the Boston-Washington corridor -- creates a formidable hurdle for the project within California. The peninsula's politicians are among the most well-connected in the state.

Local politicians U.S. Representative Anna Eshoo and state Sen. Simitian have proposed "blending" high-speed rail with the local commuter service Caltrain, which has been undergoing dire financial problems. Caltrain says it could work. If the High-Speed Rail Authority agrees, that could go some way towards smoothing local opposition -- but at the cost, potentially, of sending fewer fast trains all the way to San Francisco.

Even if the peninsula can be placated -- still a big "if" -- the High-Speed Rail Authority faces mounting opposition in D.C. that could prove far more life-threatening than the give-and-take over a viaduct in Palo Alto. Though California has already received more than $3 billion in federal high-speed rail funds, Republicans in Congress are trying to get that money back. The GOP recently attempted to use high-speed rail monies to cover emergency relief in flooded areas along the Mississippi -- surely a worthy aim, but one intended more to deal President Obama's big ticket infrastructure project a fatal blow.

At a meeting of peninsula cities in July, Pat Burt, the councilman from Palo Alto, seemed to treat the bullet train's death as a foregone conclusion. Even Governor Jerry Brown's spokesman has admitted that funding the project will be an uphill battle, given the GOP's hostility at the national level.

If high-speed rail dies, some will say it was because Atherton, Palo Alto, Menlo Park, and all the other well-off towns nearby couldn't see past their own backyards. They will blame California's onerous environmental review process, which was more or less designed to let local communities stop big projects and has created a culture of lawsuits.

That argument upsets Elizabeth Alexis, a self-educated critic of the project who volunteers with Californians Advocating Responsible Rail Design.

"Too many people want to make it a referendum on trains or NIMBYs or whatever,” Alexis said, using the acronym for 'not in my backyard.' "Those are convenient scapegoats for opposition to things you don't like."

For her, the numbers for the project simply do not wash. She feels vindicated by the radically increased cost estimates for the Central Valley, which she says are in line with her group's estimate that the overall cost of the project will rise to $65 billion. Factor in inflation and the price tag might be as much as $100 billion.

Even somebody who has been critical of the way California handles environmental reviews for big projects does not think the peninsula deserves the blame if high-speed rail goes down. Gabriel Metcalf, the executive director of San Francisco Planning (and) Urban Research (SPUR), said, "The Congressional Republican chokehold on America is the real threat to this project. They seem to dream of 1955, when highways and suburban tract homes were the only kinds of infrastructure you had to worry about."

In October, the California High-Speed Rail Authority must release a long-awaited business plan. If California is to take advantage of stimulus funds, the last opportunity for federal assistance in the foreseeable future given that Congressional Republican "chokehold,” the clock is ticking: It must break ground on that Central Valley segment before the end of next year. Whether it will get in under the wire is an open question, as is the question of what will happen next.

For now, high-speed rail's future funding is unclear, particularly the $14 billion or more in additional federal funds California will need to finish its project. Even if construction on a segment in the Central Valley does beat the federal deadline, Atherton may ultimately get its wish: the Republican majority in the House may try to kill the project. If the project's costs do increase, federal inaction could be enough to finish the job. Despite engineers’ dire warnings that the U.S. infrastructure is falling apart and roads are overcrowded, much to the detriment of the economy, Congress has shown little inclination to fix the nation's transportation deficit.

If the project dies in a few years, critics have pointed out, the decision to build first in the Central Valley instead of near San Francisco or Los Angeles will be doubly regrettable, since the tracks will be good for nothing more than a "train to nowhere," or at best, a train from Merced to Bakersfield. They say that's a reason to stop the project now, before billions are wasted.

Rail boosters paint a bleak picture of what the end of high-speed rail would mean for the state and the country. California is projected to see its population soar from 37 million today to some 50 million by 2035. All those extra people will be crowded into a state that seems to have already added as many freeway lanes and airport gates as it possibly can. But if California must add more, rail backers claim, the costs will outstrip those of the project, since "the cost of doing nothing is not zero." They believe population growth would require $90 billion to $100 billion more in highway and airport investments.

The country is nearing a breaking point, rail authority chairman Umberg argues, and rail is the only way out.

"I think we should take a look at countries like Afghanistan and decide whether that's where we want to end up," said Umberg, who recently served a tour there with the Army.

"I think that's where we end up without investments in infrastructure, if we don't maintain our transportation infrastructure and improve it to keep pace with population and the rest of the world. That's where we end up. I know that sounds like hyperbole -- but we have hard choices to make."

FOLLOW HUFFPOST SAN FRANCISCO

ATHERTON, Calif. -- Walk down Ashfield Road in this well-heeled town of 7,000 on the San Francisco Peninsula and you'll find million-dollar homes surrounded by tall fences and lush, manicured landscap...
ATHERTON, Calif. -- Walk down Ashfield Road in this well-heeled town of 7,000 on the San Francisco Peninsula and you'll find million-dollar homes surrounded by tall fences and lush, manicured landscap...
 
 
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06:23 PM on 08/24/2011
It shows how far the U.S. is behind in technology Europe china japan russia ect all have them
why don't we have them
01:37 PM on 08/29/2011
Because there is very little demand for it. It will not be a drain on tax money that could be used in better ways.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jambala99
A GOP vote is a character flaw at this point.....
06:20 PM on 08/24/2011
Luckily Rich Scott of Florida decided that he doesn't care about the residents of his state, and gave away his portion to other states (including California)......LOL.....
11:55 PM on 08/24/2011
Why are the Smart People not giving money for this? Or,at least for pyramids ? These are the things that can save California.
01:38 PM on 08/29/2011
Yeah where are all the investors?
06:09 PM on 08/24/2011
I would love to see a high-speed rail system work out here in California, especially because after just returning from 3 years in Japan, I know how amazing a well-run system can be. But then, that's the issue here, I think. Budget fluctuations never endear a project to anyone, and it looks even worse in a project where all the NIMBYs seem to be out in force over.

Until it all gets figured out, I suppose I'll just remember my good ol' days on the Tokaido Shinkansen and hope for the best.
05:24 PM on 08/24/2011
Next california will be running a high speed rail from LA to mexico city. JUST SAYIN.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Matthew Breslin
This is not rocket science.
04:46 PM on 08/24/2011
As long as we can keep the guys running them from texting, we should be ok.
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Uncle Bill
ex-lawyer and teacher
04:17 PM on 08/24/2011
If the original inhabitants of Atherton and Palo Alto had the same attitude as the present opposition to high speed rail do, they would have never developed.  Commuter rail was key to both of their original development as accessible suburbs of San Francisco.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
firstad
03:27 PM on 08/24/2011
With Cost creep, this could easily be "The Train that ate California." The repairs to the Sacramento Delta and water delivery system should be where we put our effort and money. Lets not forget the tracks will criss cross the San Andreas numerous times which is really stupid.At these growing prices in bonds and threat of quakes in the tracks, we need a high speed train like Trump needs a new animal sitting on his head...maybe less!
03:47 PM on 08/24/2011
Agreed, and I like your analogy.
03:53 PM on 08/24/2011
The tracks would only cross the San Andreas once near LA. There are other faults that it crosses, but that is not a reason to stop it.

Right now we spend at LEAST $100 billion per year for the military costs to keep the oil flowing from the Persian Gulf. Some people I know add in other costs (such as $50 billion of Homeland Security) that make that figure up to $300 billion per year. Even at the $100 billion level, if we spread it out on ALL gallons of gasoline consumed, it amounts to 30 cents per gallon. If we charge that $100 billion just to the oil we get from the middle east, it works out to be $3.00 per gallon.

It's the oil economy that is eating us alive. The cost of doing nothing is a lot more than zero.
11:56 PM on 08/24/2011
Shale anyone? Even a Liberal Arts major should be able to get it. (well, perhaps not.)
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02:36 PM on 08/24/2011
unfortunately high speed train makes no sense in america, too expensive, low density, people like to travel in jammed highways 'alone' or planes, safety freaks will insist on impossible measures and everybody believes in biblical economics - the right of bankers to invent money for themselves and all other citizens to toil for money, which of course they dont want to give to the government.
In spain, people are not 'terrorized' by safety problems, not even when ETA was active natives gave a damn about the issue, people are communal and so they like trains, and they understand that governments should be allowed to invent money for the people (deficits) not only bankers and the rich in stock-markets (speculation, emission of paper-stocks and derivatives, etc.). So they are OK not sacrificing their way of life for the super-rich, unlike Americans who are so generous to those who ab=use them. www.economicstruth.com
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03:29 AM on 08/27/2011
Once Global Peak Oil hits, there will be no fuel for those cars and planes.

Then what will Americans do?
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Hrover
02:25 PM on 08/24/2011
Fund BART and other transits here. This is a waste of money.
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03:30 AM on 08/27/2011
How do you propose to get between LA and SF when there is no fuel for cars and planes?
gerald1961
Your approval is not required
02:07 PM on 08/24/2011
Trust me, Big OIL is trying its best to kill this before anyone notices.
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mikey09
Living off the grid.
12:42 PM on 08/24/2011
Only one comment.....I would NOT like a train going past my house, any train, but I don't want to live near an airport either....something flying by my house at 125 miles an hour would not be pleasant....wonder if they are loud?
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BKearney
Life is funny, skies are sunny, bees make honey
08:56 AM on 08/24/2011
Why must the train start and end in San Francisco. Start the damn thing in San Jose (Silicon Valley)
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GinaCucina
Don't trust everything you believe.
12:26 PM on 08/24/2011
Because San Francisco is a major California city. Stopping in San Jose, about an hour's drive south, makes as much sense as stopping an hour outside of LA.
iam99
To know what you prefer...
12:43 PM on 08/24/2011
You know how these things develop, though. Example: First, Chicago had Midway Airport and then Ohare was built in the middle of the farm fields way outside of town - now it is one continuous mass of humanity punctuated with cities, town and shopping centers. Public transportation is effective in getting you into the city from the airports.
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BKearney
Life is funny, skies are sunny, bees make honey
02:45 PM on 08/24/2011
San Jose is also a major California city 200,000 larger in population. Silicon valley will continue to grow whereas SF will not. All regional mass transit goes to San Jose including Amtrak from Sacramento. The most expensive sixty miles of track will run between San Jose and San Francisco trust me live right between SF and SJ.
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KrazyJay
01:02 AM on 08/24/2011
I don't understand the argument of the typical American conservative, "It can't be done!" They use this with social safety nets, and now with public works projects - which aren't really aimed at innovation, but are really just aimed at keeping up with the rest of civilization.

Problem is, they're expecting the rest of us to remain as ignorant about the way the rest of the world is progressing. Other countries ALREADY have high speed rail. Other countries ALREADY provide high quality healthcare, paid for by the government, costing each citizen LESS than our US-side system does.

Reminds me of an old uncle I used to have ... he used to say, "Thar ain't no such a thang as that landin' on the moon! That's all stage sets over thar in Hollywood!"

If it isn't already happening in America, then it obviously doesn't exist.
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Vrano
Your sexual freedom is not my financial worry
01:28 AM on 08/24/2011
The matter with conservatives isn't so much an "it can't be done!" mindset, but more a "how are you going to keep it funded in the future" mindset. Most projects like these are well over budget, and by the time they open, all money is going to pay off the overage while never getting close to being able to keep up with day-to-day operating costs. In other words, there is no concern about sustainability. Its like there is a delusional "Field of Dreams" mindset when it comes to these types of projects..."if you build it, they will come". On top of that, what about the workers? Sure, you may put them to work for months, even years, but what about the long-term employment? You can't keep construction crews around building nothing.

What may look good for the here and now may not necessarily look good for tomorrow and beyond.
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02:28 AM on 08/24/2011
some projects are too valuable to the people and must be built. The airline lobby and their pals and the existing rail lobbies and interests will fight this to its death and AmericA declines just a bit more..There was a day when this nation valued itself more than wars and military adventures for the war profiteers....sad to see such decline...
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01:09 PM on 08/24/2011
NO Conservative said it can't be done. It's been done all over the world. What they are saying is, if you want to spend billions on infrastructure, maybe there are better projects than this. Especially if the latest reports out show it will lose money every year. We already have one Amtrak losing money every year that the Govt. keeps bailing out. Now you want to build another rail line that we may have to bail out year after year also? The money may be spent better on other projects. You can't lose money every year on roads and bridges. But, I know, you don't care, you just want to attack Conservatives.
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firstad
03:34 PM on 08/24/2011
Yep. We are all a bunch of dummies who would rather attack conservatives than do anything useful. THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE FAR RIGHT. Building an unsustainable train system is about being stupid, and there is plenty of that on both sides of the issue.
03:58 PM on 08/24/2011
Can't lose money on roads and bridges? Hah! Gov. Walker in Wisconsin diverted $200 million of GENERAL FUND money, not gas tax money, for PART of the work to rebuild the Zoo interchange in Milwaukee.

Airlines aren't exactly profitable either - as a whole, they have cumulatively lost money since their inception - there were only a few years in the 1990's where there accumulated profits exceeded the losses.
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mac2jr
The truth always wins out
12:42 AM on 08/24/2011
Fuel is cheap - Today - but how about tomorrow's fuel, 10, 15, 20, 30, 50 years from now? The USA does NOT have sufficient fuel for all its airlines and its military within its borders, we import from Mexico, Canada, OPEC, and South America, and with all the trouble we have caused these outside countries, they will eventually tell the USA and its people to go to ...well.. At that point the USA government and the Military will close down all non-essential transportation that uses crud oil as it will be needed for our protection for decades into the future.

Thus, all public / private transportation that is not powered by alternative energy generated electric will be hauled, and thus the end of the USA. Light rail, like the People Mover and the SMT muni-monorail, coupled with medium to long-distance high-speed rail will be the prime transport at that time, and that requires we start building NOW. To wait may be too late, and the more we wait the more costly the projects are.
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06:42 AM on 08/24/2011
but, but all we have to do is drill a few more holes in the ground and all will be OK.

A few "minor" FACTS for you ...

- The US oil production peaked in 1970 and no matter what technology we use, no matter how deep the ocean we drill in is, the US production keeps declining at a stead pace every year.

-The US currently imports ~75% of the oil it uses and even if every square meter of the US was drilled to the max, the US would STILL NEED to import ~70%.

- Global Peak Oil is absolutely guaranteed to happen. The only question now is when. The current best estimate is 2020.

- When GPO hits there will be more demand than supply. Guess what happens when demand exceeds supply? Yes, $20/gal Diesel and $20/gal Jet-A

- Guess what powers most of the current trains and trucks? Diesel.

- Guess what powers airplanes? Jet-A

- How many trucks, trains and jets are going to move after GPO?

Do you suppose there is any correlation between GPO and the fact China is completely rebuilding BOTH their passenger and freight rain systems by 2020?

We either steam roll the people that oppose HS rail now or do it later. Regardless HS rail will have to be built, the only real choice is to do it now or do it later for higher cost.
04:00 PM on 08/24/2011
I think it's more of an issue to build it now while we have the capital to do it. Once peak oil hits, we'll be shipping all of our money off to Saudi Arabia.
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clivechristy
Pith and Vinegar
12:41 AM on 08/24/2011
In some ways the state's conurbation and population density make California the perfect place to try out a bullet train, on the other hand, the natural beauty of the area and the truly stunning geography make it the perfect place to leave alone. Although I can see the logic, the Lost Coast of California should be left alone, and they should try it out on a Washington-NYC-Boston route first.
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02:29 AM on 08/24/2011
think bigger....we need a system...badly.
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GinaCucina
Don't trust everything you believe.
12:28 PM on 08/24/2011
Is your solution to build more freeways on this gorgeous geography?
03:50 PM on 08/24/2011
No! Contrary to what people seem to think, transportation between the Bay Area and Southern Cal is not a problem, other than the fact it is oil based. High speed rail, while the trains will be electric, will still be oil/coal based for power generation.