Vistas: 'Illegal' Or 'Undocumented'? (SLIDESHOW)

Welcome to the first installment of Vistas, a regular feature of HuffPost LatinoVoices whereby we will ask prominent Latino thinkers and doers for their perspective on a theme, issue or event which is often cause for a significant discussion within our community and beyond.

Recognizing that Latinos are not a homogeneous group, and yet share a broad range of experiences and legacies, Vistas simply aims to help illustrate different points of view, which in aggregate can present a truer reflection of what the larger community feels and thinks.

This week's theme is:

It seems that people who advocate for immigration reform actively reject usage of the word 'illegal' when referring to undocumented immigrants, and those who have the opposite perspective, choose to actively use the term 'illegal' to represent the these same immigrants.

On the one hand, the legal term 'illegal alien' describes foreign nationals who have entered the U.S. without legal permission, or having entered legally, have since lost that status. In this context, 'illegal' refers to the status of the foreign national. On the other hand, U.S. law distinguishes between entering the country illegally (a criminal act) and overstaying a visa for legal entry (a civil offense).

As Hispanics, we are hyper-aware of the immigration debate and fall on all sides of the issue, but do we all feel the same about the use of the term 'illegal?'

In the slideshow we present the responses received and invite you share your punto de vista and comments below.

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Arguing over terminology rather than issues of substance

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"While there are good ethical and linguistic reasons to avoid using the term 'illegal,' I'm not sure it's always worth the fight. It is far too easy for opponents of immigration reform to lambast us as politically correct or hypersensitive. Or they insist that we're misleading citizens about the true terms of the debate, or that we're ashamed of the undocumented. In any case, pretty soon we start arguing over terminology rather than issues of substance, and then we're put on the defensive." - Daniel Cubias, The Hispanic Fanatic

Flickr photo by: longislandtwins

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"While there are good ethical and linguistic reasons to avoid using the term 'illegal,' I'm not sure it's always worth the fight. It is far too easy for opponents of immigration reform to lambast us as politically correct or hypersensitive. Or they insist that we're misleading citizens about the true terms of the debate, or that we're ashamed of the undocumented. In any case, pretty soon we start arguing over terminology rather than issues of substance, and then we're put on the defensive."

- Daniel Cubias, The Hispanic Fanatic

Flickr photo by: longislandtwins

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Comments

[montanason]

12:37 PM on 08/31/2011

I would hope that when the minority becomes the majority we acquit ourselves
better than they have-that we forget old wounds and work to achieve unity
and consensus.
In doing so perhaps the "promise" can be realized and this can become a nation
of true justice and liberty for all. A truly "representative" system of governance.

[reddy52]

05:56 PM on 09/25/2011

What racists? Opposing third-world immigration is not racist.

[Razpooten]

10:02 PM on 08/30/2011

The term "illegal" is used to demonize a group of people who otherwise are not much different than the ones doing the demonizing - their activity may be illegal - not the person.

[Vicky Valentine Proud]

02:49 AM on 09/01/2011

But it takes the person to commit the act. Try being illegal in a country like Iran and see just how much of a person they consider you to be.

[montanason]

08:47 PM on 08/30/2011

Since so much of this discussion has been based on the law and what is legal would
any of those leading that charge like to address this? A crime not committed by
some lowly immigrant but one perpetrated by a government-as are so many.

http://news.yahoo.com/panel-reveals-details-1940s-experiment-012040543.html

[arhesq]

08:40 PM on 09/29/2011

The introductory information in "This Week's Theme" is not entirely accurate. Entering the country without a visa when one is required is known as "entry without inspection" or EWI. Such a person has no right to remain in the U.S., is not eligible to change status in the U.S., or obtain employment authorization, and is most states would not be able to obtain a driver's license. Such an entry becomes a criminal offense (a felony) punishable by imprisonment only if it follows removal ( formerly deportation). Nevertheless, unlawful presence may and does lead to apprehension and likely removal. Additional penalties include a bar to future lawful status: If the offender remains in the U.S. for less than 6 months and departs, he may not immigrate for 3 years; if he stays for 1 year or more, he becomes inadmissible for 10 years.

[nikleatram]

08:38 PM on 08/29/2011

If illegal immigrants want a better life, they should stay in their own country and become active to achieve that. If they are too poor to accomplish anything, they can not use that as an excuse to sneak into the US or any other country, in order to obtain benefits. The only taxes the illegals pay here are sales taxes; if they are undocumented, they can not pay any other kind; no income, no property, etc. since they are not listed as being here! They may live better here but they do not improve the average American's life. The possible lower salary they receive benefits their employer only, not the American citizen whose taxes goes to subsidizing
the "better" life they enjoy: free schooling, free breakfast, lunch for students, free translators, free medical care, etc. They say that all they want to do is work, so they should remain in their country and do that, and learn to live on that salary!

[Jose 58]

03:02 AM on 08/30/2011

American lust for drugs is making it unsafe for good people in these countries. Stop buying drugs and maybe they won't need to flee the unsafe environment created by wealthy drug lords. Why not start promoting a drug free lifestyle in the US, then, maybe these people will have a safe home to go back to, if not, their staying.

[montanason]

01:55 PM on 08/30/2011

That would be a common sense approach and might even require
ramping up enforcement and education funding-both of which
don't seem to be acceptable.
Better to point an exclusionary finger.

[zfire]

01:04 PM on 08/31/2011

Please Jose. The wealthy in Mexico do drugs too. I've been there. The biggest issue Mexico has is the treatment of the indigenous people by the Eurocentric population that controls all business. If you are an Indio you will not find work in an office building in Mexico city. Turn on the tv and all you see are white faces. Porfavor.

[Razpooten]

10:04 PM on 08/30/2011

if wishes were fishes we'd all have full dishes. Bubba, this is beyond your grasp.

[ItMustSook]

02:50 PM on 08/29/2011

I guess it's time to use the accurate term. Criminal Alien. Or maybe just Criminal for the PC crowd.

[RobietheCat]

05:15 PM on 08/30/2011

Criminal Alien is the operative phrase.

[Razpooten]

10:06 PM on 08/30/2011

How about the term: terminally stupid? how does that fit you?

[ItMustSook]

05:03 PM on 09/02/2011

Criminal should do fine but, thanks anyway.

[CelticMajic]

01:55 PM on 08/29/2011

Using a term other than "illegal" deliberately confuses the issue. Illegal means they broke the law and that is indisputable. If they do not wish to be termed "illegal" then return to their nation of origin and legally enter the US via the proscribed means.

[Vicky Valentine Proud]

03:11 AM on 09/01/2011

But that is too simple, and why should they??? And what of their children, they didn't ask to be brought here yet they receive all the emmenities of a child born here and they use them as their shields. So as these children are reared in our educational system, they should be aware that they are here illegally and as such, they should seek a way to rectify their situation, but again why should they??? Their families have been above the law for so long, they figure they should have it handed to them. They figure they don't have to earn it as some have, or even work towards it if they can get all these politicians to pass legislation that supports them. Why buy the cow when the milk is free??? Also do away with birthright citizenship, rather than punish the child born here, allow the child upon turning 18 years old, and if they have not been convicted of any crimes in their or any other country, the right to claim his US citizenship. Two illegals, here illegally should not equal a citizen. This way we are not breaking up families as they claim, we just give the whole lot a way ticket home. And if for some reason, they are continually found here illegally, then they have no chance of obtaining any sort of legal documentation, so they will be convicted as such and sent home to be imprisoned there.

[Charlotte Bonnie]

09:20 AM on 08/29/2011

Huffy is trying hard to push certain agendas...

[montanason]

09:58 PM on 08/29/2011

As is every poster on this site

[RobietheCat]

05:15 PM on 08/30/2011

Most definitely.

[P-Woman]

01:09 AM on 08/29/2011

Illegal alien, illegal immigrant, illegal, undocumented--the term does not matter. All of the terms refer to the same group of people, those who have left their own country and enter the USA without the permission of the USA and have no legal, moral nor national right to live and work in this country. All persons who fall into the above named group are illegal and have the right to return to the countries of their origins and legally should do so. When you speak of children who are born to parents that fall within the afforementioned group are certainly not at fault and are American citizens. Their birth should not confer on the illegal parents the legal right to remain in this country to care for those children. If the citizen children are of an age to support themselves independently, of course they should stay in their country. If they are minor children and the illegal parents want to arrange for the cittizen children to remain here with legal persons, no problem, otherwise these minor citizen children should accompany their illegal alien parents back to the parents country of origin and the citizen children should come back to their country when they are able to function independent of their parents. Illegal aliens are just outside of the norm when they expect the USA to accommedate their status of illegal alliens for their convenience. If you want to stage protests, do it in your own country, stay out of mine.

[Vicky Valentine Proud]

03:12 AM on 09/01/2011

Amen to that!!!!

[ForVivi]

12:27 AM on 08/29/2011

Words have power. IMHO I do find that using the term illegal alien makes it easier for people to behave abusively towards undocumented immigrants. If we can give nasty things nice names like "friendly fire" and "peacemakers", we can do it for these refugees.

[Mr Bobo]

01:35 PM on 08/29/2011

Near miss.

[voyager48]

02:20 PM on 08/29/2011

Undocumented Immigrants and Illegal Aliens are two completely different things.

An Undocumented immigrant might be a refugee or some person properly admitted and processed without documentation with permission to be here without documentation while being processed through the system.

All non-citizens are aliens regardless of residence status.

An illegal alien is someone who has entered the country without permission to immigrate so cannot be called an immigrant! This is done either by crossing the border in an un-procedural manner and without inspection, or by entering on a tourist visa and then staying without permission, in which case they are documented which but have committed visa fraud. Both instance are a breach of federal law.

[ForVivi]

09:48 PM on 08/29/2011

Your post makes a lot of sense. Faved.

[hajeanet]

10:51 PM on 08/28/2011

The TRUTH is that "illegals" concerning immigrants SHOULD BE "criminals" because they have broken OUR country's laws just as a thief is a criminal. Besides which, many female illegals come across the border and have babies in OUR hospitals, etc. and these illegal " do NOT pay the bills that THEY OWE so really they ARE THIEVES! Also, our jails are FULL of Mexican criminals who COST the U. S. taxpayers a FORTUNE!!! Don't expect me to feel sorry if a mother is parted from her child--she KNEW she was breaking OUR law and that THAT could result in her being sent back to Mexico. I'm pretty sure the U. S. gov. would be willing to send her child BACK to Mexico with her. Look at all the Drug Lords killling thousands of people in THEIR country. We don't need people like that in the U. S. If it were up to me, I'd send ALL U. S. citizens who USE illegal drugs to Mexico or to some HORRID country.
Get your Senators and Representatives to KILL the treaty that the U. S. and Mexico have signed which would give ILLEGALS who worked here and returned to Mexico-OUR Social Security funds. If this treaty goes through, it WILL wreck OUR seniors' Social Sec. benefits.

[dhinds]

06:57 PM on 08/28/2011

This is America: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GvBCm7fQn8

Love it or leave it.

[dhinds]

05:30 PM on 08/28/2011

Alien is a good term for someone from another planet (or solar system), not someone from a friendly, neighboring nation and trade partner.

[voyager48]

05:47 PM on 08/28/2011

no - alien is the correct term under the law and they have broken the law top be here without permission - so illegal alien is the correct term unless you want to use the other term used under law - criminal alien.

[dhinds]

06:17 PM on 08/28/2011

Criminals use aliases. I don't. Why do you?

[David Brito]

09:17 PM on 08/28/2011

Did you get your law degree out of a Cracker Jack box? If a tourist overstays his visa, this does not make him or her an alien.

[hajeanet]

11:00 PM on 08/28/2011

Have you read the NEWS from Mexico recently??!!! The Drug Lords are LOPPING off heads of other Mexicans and letting their KIDS play kick ball in the streets with those heads! I think the news said that because of drug wars in Mexico 4,000 people have died--police, government officials among them. Did you read [a couple of years ago] that the Mexican President SENT their criminals to OUR country because he didn't want them there. I don't want them here either!

[ForVivi]

12:29 AM on 08/29/2011

That would be 40,000 (forty thousand).

[montanason]

12:23 PM on 08/29/2011

Have you read the historical news of the mutilation of indigenous people
in this country even to the point of making tobacco pouches of a woman's
breast?
Or the accounts of children, infants, being impaled and even fed to dogs
at the original land sites? What of bounties being placed on scalps on a
declining scale based on men, women, or children?

[Chuck Voith]

05:01 PM on 08/28/2011

I am an independent voter whose primary concern about voting for Democrats is their politically-correct approach to dealing with illegal immigration. Whenever I read articles or hear speeches that refer to illegal aliens as undocumented immigrants or undocumented workers or undocumented students, I have little doubt that the author of that article or speech is pro-amnesty/pro-open-borders - who would rather see my quality-of-life diminished versus U.S. immigration laws enforced. Because U.S. immigration laws prevent illegal immigrants from entering our country (bringing with them third-world poverty, disease, crime and squalor), I support complete enforcement of those laws. The pro-amnesty crowd loses credibility when they demand that the President of the United States arbitrarily STOP enforcing the American immigration laws.

[dhinds]

05:37 PM on 08/28/2011

No Chuck, they're just Pro-Respect.

You claim "illegal immigrants ... bring with them third-worl­d poverty, disease, crime and squalor"

Yet EVERY child in Mexico understands the meaning of "Among Nations as among Individuals, Respect for the Rights of Others brings Peace.

You need to assimilate that statement, Chuck. Your demonization of an entire race based of groundless and insulting stereotyping speaks badly of your intelligence and motives.

[voyager48]

05:50 PM on 08/28/2011

No - they would only be worthy of respect if they decided to follow our laws and went through the proper channels.

[Chuck Voith]

05:59 PM on 08/28/2011

YIKES dhinds...no need to get personal about my views of illegal immigration by insulting my "intelligence" (actually I'm a bright Naval Academy grad with a masters in economics/finance). If you have friends/family who are illegals, I can understand that illegal immigration is a poignant issue for you. But truly...the best action they can take is to go back to Mexico and re-enter the U.S. legally.

[David Brito]

09:22 PM on 08/28/2011

Your biggest worry should be that the Tea Baggers and Republicans are destroying this country and conversly, everyone's quality-of-life.

[hajeanet]

11:23 PM on 08/28/2011

I agree with you David! The Republicans complain about how much Pres. Obama has spent [about 1.7 trillion dollars]---but at least a lot of that went to the citizens of America and aided people. Pres. Bush [jr.] SPENT over 7.6 TRILLION DOLLARS and a lot of that went to Halliburton, an international company--and Arab, Iraqi,clan leaders, etc. What average U. S. citizen received something like the l$245,000.00 a month from Pres. Bush and his cronies?????

[MA2AW]

11:32 PM on 08/27/2011

The federal gov needs to do its job and secure the border. In China if your caught illegally entering its a very different story. Having drugs on you is automatic death sentence to be carried out quickly. I say put kill fences on the line. 1st touch a shock, 2nd touch a harder shock, that last touch is well, lets say you don't have to worry about picking peaches anymore. All these people in prison for entry, depot them. No trials and no attorney, if you are here illegal you are gone. Come back, deport again, the next time, well refer to the fence...

[montanason]

02:58 PM on 08/28/2011

uh huh-and hopefully no innocent child chasing an errant ball would
touch such a fence-splendid and well thought out approach-very, what's
the word I'm looking for? Oh yeah. patriotic.

[dhinds]

05:46 PM on 08/28/2011

That kind of statement makes me ashamed to be an American.

The United States was created to define and uphold Due Process for PEOPLE, regardless of their migratory status or place of origin.

If you had your way, the USA would be an insane asylum, unfit to live in.

[RobietheCat]

06:51 PM on 08/28/2011

Witnessing the illegal migration of tens of millions of mexicans into the US, the East Indians are now illegal invading the US too. Are you similarly in favor of those people too?

Remember, there's a Billion of them wanting to come in too.

[psuffield]

08:16 PM on 08/27/2011

This is pure BS. Trying to give legitimatcy loud and often does not make it right or even true. We have laws on our books just like all other nations included those in Europe. In fact, even the most liberal nations within the EU have laws on the books regarding illegal entry. Here in the United States crossing into our borders without proper documentation is breaking the law. It does not matter how nice of a person you are, or how hard working you are or even if you do take a job that most Americans would turn their nose up at. Crossing the border without proper permits is law breaking. Plaine and simple!

[David Brito]

09:30 PM on 08/28/2011

Crossing the border without permission is breaking the law. So is making favorable decisions on the U.S. Supreme Court so that your wife's phony lobbying firm gets $ millions, a la Clarence Thomas.

[P-Woman]

01:23 AM on 08/29/2011

If your point is that they are both illegal and should be dealt with as such, I agree with you. If you think one justifies the other, you are not off-base, you aren't even in the ballpark.

[hajeanet]

11:39 PM on 08/31/2011

Amen, psuffield, Amen!!! Did you ever notice that the lawbreakers ALWAYS come up with excuses?