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Wilma Liebman, Outgoing NLRB Chair, Finds 'Silver Lining' In Political Rancor


First Posted: 09/05/11 09:09 AM ET Updated: 11/05/11 06:12 AM ET

WASHINGTON -- Wilma Liebman, the outgoing chairwoman of the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB), can't recall a time when the very idea of collective bargaining was so divisive in American culture and politics. Even so, the 61-year-old lawyer says that isn't entirely a bad thing.

"We've obviously had some very contentious strikes and labor disputes over the years, but this is something of a different nature," Liebman said by telephone the other day while taking a break from packing up her office in downtown Washington after her term ended. "In some respects, all the controversy is welcome because it has brought these issues back into the public eye. That’s the silver lining."

If that is indeed a silver lining, then the labor board has certainly had a hand in bringing it about under the leadership of Liebman, who asked that she not be reappointed when her term expired a little over a week ago. Although the NLRB is an agency that many Americans have never even heard of, the charges and rulings that issued from it this year have helped stoke the debate about what kind of role unions and collective bargaining should play in American society. It's a debate that Liebman believes to be vitally important, particularly in light of the recent rollback of collective bargaining rights for public workers in Wisconsin, as well as a similar, attempted rollback for workers in Ohio.

Many of Liebman's critics saw a distinct pro-union bent in the labor board's recent decision-making. Just before she stepped down, the board issued a decision that will likely make it easier for health-care workers to unionize. It also recently issued a new rule that will require most private-sector employers to hang posters in the workplace informing workers of their rights under labor law. And earlier this year, it proposed new rules that would streamline the union election process, eliminating some of the hurdles to unionization.

The response from the business community has not been kind. Even the more innocuous poster rule was assaulted as a gift to labor unions by the likes of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, one of Liebman's fiercest critics. Corporations and their allies have decried the board as "out of control" during Liebman's tenure as chairwoman.

The vitriol hasn't necessarily surprised Liebman, who served under three presidents and was appointed chair by Obama in 2009. She attributed the most heated rhetoric to people who still can't come to grips with the National Labor Relations Act, the 1935 law defining collective-bargaining rights that the labor board is charged with interpreting and enforcing. Many of the same people can't come to grips with the New Deal more generally, Liebman said.

"This law has, from the beginning, been a product of fierce struggles, of deeply divided and competing views," she said of the labor relations act. "I think there are elements of society and different groups that have never accepted the legitimacy of the law or the whole array of New Deal legislation. They don’t accept the legitimacy of labor unions."

The reaction to the poster rule, in particular, Liebman found "kind of silly," given all the hoopla over 11-by-17-inch placards. And yet the rule is actually quite significant, at least symbolically. In an era when union membership has dwindled to about 12 percent of the American workforce -- and when rank-and-file wages have remained stagnant despite rising executive pay -- the posters are meant to inform workers not only of their rights to join a union, but more broadly of their rights to discuss workplace conditions and bring their grievances to superiors. It may be a sign of how far the pendulum has swung in favor of management that such a rule can be so openly lambasted by business trade groups.

Despite the charges that she was shilling for big labor, Liebman says she wasn't interpreting the law for unions per se, but for all employees.

"This statute applies to all private-sector workers," Liebman said. "Two or more people can get together and go to the boss, even in non-union workplaces. That's a huge secret amongst most workers."

She points to the board's cases on social media in the workplace as an example. In a move that surprised many, the board looked into several cases that involved workers being fired or otherwise disciplined for their ill-advised outbursts on Facebook. In some instances, the agency's lawyers found the firings to be fair game; in others, they found them to be potentially in violation of labor law. Many of the cases didn't involve unions whatsoever. Workers around the country flooded the agency with their woeful tales of Facebook firings. Employers -- not to mention lawyers -- took notice.

The most contentious action from the NLRB this year had nothing to do with Liebman at all, although she wound up caught in the crossfire. In April, the board's acting general counsel, Lafe Solomon, who acts as something akin to a prosecutor, issued a complaint against The Boeing Company. Solomon accused the aerospace giant of violating labor law when it established a production line for its 787 Dreamliner in South Carolina, a right-to-work state; Solomon said it was retaliation against Boeing's unionized employees in Washington State for having gone on strike in the past.

Liebman's board did not issue the complaint, nor has it ruled on the matter. And yet conservatives have used it to tar the board as the union-loving, job-killing agent of an Obama administration intent on meddling in corporate decision-making. Liebman attributes much of the anger towards the board to a misunderstanding of its duties and procedures.

"The members of the board have nothing to do with the issuance of a complaint, unless it comes up to us," Liebman said. The politics swirling around the independent board, she added, has been "disturbing."

Those politics show no signs of abating. With Liebman gone, the board is down to just three members -- two Democrats and one Republican -- which barely makes a quorum. The term of one Democrat is set to expire later this year, and if Republicans refuse to confirm another Democratic appointee to the slot, as they're expected to do, the board would be rendered inoperable. Some, including South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley (R), are hoping to hasten that day by persuading the one sitting Republican, Brian Hayes, to step down.

Liebman says she very much hopes that doesn’t happen, given that the board "provides the rule of law," and that both labor and business seem "relatively comfortable" with the way the system functions. Although she doesn’t expect the politics surrounding collective bargaining to subside, she does hope to see a more civil and meaningful discussion.

"The issues are too important and the problems too extreme to just have a lot of rancor and rhetoric," she said. "I would love to see it become a real debate."

"Maybe this is a prelude to a real debate," she added. "I can hope."

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WASHINGTON -- Wilma Liebman, the outgoing chairwoman of the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB), can't recall a time when the very idea of collective bargaining was so divisive in American culture a...
WASHINGTON -- Wilma Liebman, the outgoing chairwoman of the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB), can't recall a time when the very idea of collective bargaining was so divisive in American culture a...
 
 
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03:18 PM on 09/11/2011
Fact is, until the NLRB gets some real teeth and mandates jail time for companies that violate the rights of workers to form a union on the job, the NLRB will be nothing more than a paper tiger.

The reason why companies are jumping all over the NLRB per making them post the Employee Rights Notice is because they know (1) the Notice will not result directly in workers forming a union; (2) they want to use this issue to weaken the NLRB more; (3) companies do not fear the NLRB as the fines put forth by the NLRB per violations of Act is chump change for companies to pay.

But, be that as it may, it is refreshing to see that some of the recent NLRB decisions are, at least, making the attempt to protect the rights and freedoms of the American worker on the job.
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11:23 PM on 09/06/2011
None of them have morals or ethics and their filthy rich. Duh, winning!
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neolow
Radicalized Dem
03:20 PM on 09/06/2011
It's really sad when you hear people deriding Unions as some evil parasitic blight on free enterprise. They take for granted their standard 8 hour work days, weekends, holidays, safe work places, and child labor laws. These people think they can relax the standards that have humanized labor and still have those standards. Unions exist because of the abuse of power and money. Has human nature advanced so much in the last 150 years that we can now trust that workers will not be abused by their bosses to make a few dollars more? Business looks out for itself: it employs lobbyists, buys politicians, contracts the best and brightest to promote its agenda. Yet we doubt the need for the people to unite their power? All around the world where ever there are unions, business is using the same tactics to destroy collective bargaining. Why? Mo' money.
luminavi
Love kicking over anthills on both left and right.
05:41 PM on 09/06/2011
Quit living in the past.
The unions are now the exploiters and oppressors.
No group makes more political contributions than the unions.
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watchingduck
Wossamotta U. proud alumnus
06:22 PM on 09/06/2011
Except nearly every fortune 500 corp, the us chamber and about 2 dozen republican pac's and "think tanks".

Ps. I don't live in the past. I live in the real world. Come over for a visit some time.
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carbolaw
07:06 PM on 09/06/2011
The conditions today are not much different than they were during the lead up to the New Deal and the Wagner Act.  After 4 decades of gains that were made in terms of working conditions and worker benefits and wages under the labor movement with the assistance of the NLRA, Reagans ushering of the union busting era and the proliferation of the union busting industry has chipped away at these gains.  As a result of stagnating and even decreasing wages, inequality has increased over the past 30 years to where it now is at the same level as we saw in 1929.  Just as we had pre-Wagner act we now have nearly half of all US jobs paying less than a living wage and 1 in 4 paying less than a living wage with no benefits.  We have seen defined benefit pension plans disappear, safety regulations have been chipped away and enforcement bodies have been hamstrung with regulations that limit inspection rights and penalties for violations.  We have seen the reemergence of child labor both outside of US borders by US MNCs, but also inside the US by these same corporations and corporate farms.   We see more and more workers perishing on the job or suffering debilitating injuries or illnesses from their work.   We have seen a decoupling of productivity gains from wage gains and the vast majority of all growth in this country has gone to the ownership class over the past 30 years.    If unions were important in the past (and they most assuredly were) then they are equally important today.
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dfranz
With Liberty and Justice for all
10:36 AM on 09/06/2011
Real debate requires two parties willing to rationally sit down and discuss issues. Currently we only have one, and that one doesn't begin with the letter R.
09:51 AM on 09/06/2011
Silver lining? This issue is now so divisive precisely because of the constant attack on the rights of the little guy, led by corporations, through the vast media networks they own, which have managed to convince so many common folk to believe in and support things which are completely against their own self-interest, and are patently untrue. I see nothing but dark skies in all this.
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2Patriotic4U
IN GOD WE TRUST!
03:42 AM on 09/06/2011
I have NO idea why only 11.9% of all workers have their own Federal board to help them continue on their mission to force more companies out of business or to move overseas.

OSHA and numerous other government agencies now protect all workers from undue hazards and abuse. The wages and benefits for the typical non-union worker is $26.74 per hour. That does not qualify as the pay level of an indentured servant.

So, please don't pretend that unions represent anyone but their spoiled cry baby members. I was a member of the UAW at Fisher Body for almost 30 years; and, I know from experience that today's unions are ALL about intimidati­on and money!”
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08:02 AM on 09/06/2011
My dad was a member of the UAW at Fisher Body and was very, very appreciative of all the union did for him. I bet you won't turn down the retirement healthcare, pension and other goodies provided to former GM employees. They even provided an attorney to oversee his estate at the time of his death. All workers should be appreciative of the unions. That's why we have weekends off, no child labor, decent wages, vacation time, etc., etc., etc. What we need to stop jobs from going overseas is a hard look at tariffs. When it costs more to make things in China than the U.S., jobs will come back. I am very willing to pay more for products made by my fellow citizens.
09:31 AM on 09/06/2011
Good points
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Barney Rubble2468
Reality has a liberal bias.
08:12 AM on 09/06/2011
Patriotic AND anti-union is an oxymoron.
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RitaS
12:34 AM on 09/06/2011
...'Silver Lining' In Political Rancor...

Sorry, the 98% are down to the cheap base metal....
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mstock57
Go commando
11:02 PM on 09/05/2011
Yet Obama's done nothing for the unions?
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GHY1
08:29 PM on 09/05/2011
Why don't republicans the and tea party love unions. Since they don't want regulation of business why not let the unions go unregulated to.
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catlady628
Needs lint roller :)
08:18 PM on 09/05/2011
If you had today off, thank the unions.
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nofriendofrepublicans
Mother friendly.
09:47 PM on 09/05/2011
I did and I got paid for it. Thank you CWA.
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catlady628
Needs lint roller :)
10:09 PM on 09/05/2011
Republican's won't be happy till people are working for pennies a day, no benefits and a 6 1/2 day work week...you get a half day off on Sunday so you can give "thanks" for being allowed to work at all. And that includes your kids, too.

rant over :)
09:32 AM on 09/06/2011
If you have tomorrow off, thank Congress
libertyanne
Red-haired Freedom lover
07:22 PM on 09/05/2011
Seems like republicans want money and freedom for corporations but neither for the rest of us. There are more of us and less of them but conservatives are too stupid to see the divisions being caused and play right into their hands,
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neolow
Radicalized Dem
03:33 PM on 09/06/2011
The Repubs are expert at divide and conquer. We're the ones who are playing right into their hands when we turn against each other: middle class vs immigrant vs public sector vs union vs poor vs gay...there's more. They're very good at it.
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crosseyedamerican
My Karma ran over Your Dogma
07:20 PM on 09/05/2011
"...They don’t accept the legitimacy of labor unions."
They (the TP - the once called Republican party) don't accept the legitimacy of our President.
They do not accept the legitimacy of women's right to chose or vote.
They do not accept the legitimacy of institutions like NPR that inform people.
They do not accept the legitimacy of mandated environmental control
They do not accept the legitimacy of peoples right to health
They do not accept the legitimacy of financial regulation.
In a word... the whole of the real constitutionally evolved government we, the people, have instituted.
11:35 PM on 09/05/2011
"They do not accept the legitimacy of institutio­ns like NPR that inform people."

We all know that it is easier to intimidate and scare people who are not informed about all that is going on. What is worrisome about this is that the republicans will likely stall and not allow anyone to be appointed to take her place. This will effectively render the NLRB totally useless since they will not have a quorum.
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dollbaby
Spice...."The Toughest Fighter."
06:59 PM on 09/05/2011
and if Republicans refuse to confirm another Democratic appointee to the slot, as they're expected to do, the board would be rendered inoperable. Some, including South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley (R), are hoping to hasten that day by persuading the one sitting Republican, Brian Hayes, to step down.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Man that make me mad. the obstructing. the plotting, the deliberate attempts to destroy government and Obama's presidency. Can Nikki Haley be accused of conspiring against the full and normal operation of the government. It doesn't make sense that one political party can be so blatantly vicious in their goal to ruin America. And what? If they get the white house than all their appointments just go through with no questions asked? The system is really screwed up.
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nofriendofrepublicans
Mother friendly.
09:50 PM on 09/05/2011
It wouldn't be so bad if we hadn't elected a dino.
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mstock57
Go commando
11:03 PM on 09/05/2011
Excuse me? The NLRB would not be in its curent configurationif not for Obama.
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dollbaby
Spice...."The Toughest Fighter."
12:57 AM on 09/06/2011
sorry can't agree with you about that
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Rick Huggins
You got a better idea...
10:19 AM on 09/06/2011
Nikki just cost the tax payers in South Carolina 127K for a trip to Europe supposedly to promote jobs, in Europe?
Well, she did go by the BMW offices and few other corporations with plants in the state, I guess to get validations.
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dollbaby
Spice...."The Toughest Fighter."
04:05 PM on 09/06/2011
or to get foreign money for her next campaign!
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shankapotomus
06:48 PM on 09/05/2011
I guess she see's people are tired of them so she's gone.
06:25 PM on 09/05/2011
The original value added of unions was obvious, particularly in dangerous arenas like mining and construction where in the beginning it was obvious that the companies in those industries were taking advantage of the workers. But times have gone to the other extremes and the need for unions has dropped significantly to where only about 7% of workers in private industry belong to a union. The government has passed, over the years, a complete set of labor relation guidelines that covers safety, discrimination, working conditions, and a minimum wage law and beyond. There are thousands of law firms who live off of litigation associated with worker issues in the workplace. So, as the need for unions has dissipated in private industry, the unions have focused on unionizing government workers, who, of anyone, should never need union representation. If our government will not treat workers right without collective bargaining, who will? Unionizing public service workers was a huge mistake and we are now seeing the problems, which George Meany (Original Pres of AFL-CIO) warned us about and said not to unionize government workers. This administration is union loving to the extreme and is blatant about it, and hates the private business sector. Not a good attitude if you really want to stimulate the creation of jobs.
07:23 PM on 09/05/2011
My father ran a orginization that was a civil service association for public sectr employees. It ran from about the 1930's to about 1974, just as public unions were on the rise. For a very small amount, they offered legal represenation to its members when their jobs were threatened and they were brought before the Civil Service Commission.

You say public employees should never need union protection. M experience would make me disagree. I can remember my fathers members being threaten constantly, often for no reason than the new manager(new because of an election) did not like them, wanted them out so a relitive could take the job, or pay back because of office politics. With out my fathers help, public employees would have to hire a lawyer to represent them or try themselves. The manager, of course would have free legal thru government lawyers and didn't care what it cost.Also, raises were a thing of great debate, often not given because of other political considerations. and job conditions were at the whim of political appointees. things are never black and white, always grey
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StevieRae
Neutralize "being primaried" by voting
10:16 AM on 09/06/2011
Our dilemma is that many Americans have enjoyed the benefits won by labor efforts of the past but who sadly lack any curiosity or analytical skills, fail to ask, "how/who caused these changes to come about?"

#45
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crosseyedamerican
My Karma ran over Your Dogma
07:25 PM on 09/05/2011
"The government has passed, over the years, a complete set of labor relation guidelines that covers safety, discrimina­tion, working conditions­, and a minimum wage law and beyond..."
All of which are under attack by the TP.
Remove the unions, and all you are left with is further, more emboldened attacks on safety, discrimination, working conditions, and the minimum wage.
jimbo57
ni dieu ni maitre
09:17 PM on 09/05/2011
If you have the stomach for it, check out the FOX "business" talk shows sometimes. These creeps are against unions AND minimum wage. And at least one Republican governor...the pinhead up in Maine...wants to repeal child labor legislation. They're not waiting till they've destroyed unions.
09:35 AM on 09/06/2011
well taken but they cant create jobs