Brookline Political Action For Peace, Massachusetts Group, Seeks School Pledge Of Allegiance Ban

By Associated Press

BROOKLINE, Mass. -- A group in one Massachusetts town wants to ban students from reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in the public schools, saying it has no educational value and is reminiscent of totalitarian regimes.

Brookline Political Action for Peace will ask town meeting voters in November to pass a nonbinding resolution on the idea. The pledge is already optional in the Boston suburb's schools.

Supporters say a pledge ban would prevent bullying by protecting students who do not wish to pledge.

Veterans, family members of 9/11 victims and the father of a soldier killed in Afghanistan are critical of the idea.

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Comments

[macmanchgo]

11:46 AM on 09/16/2011

For all the Republicans that cry for smaller government, you'd think they'd actually welcome the opportunity to not have their kids be reminded of "their government" every time they start their schoolday.

[Larry Waters]

07:05 PM on 09/13/2011

The Pledge Of Allegiance is a 70-year-old tradition. No one is required by law to say it, nor is one's citizenship dependent on it or public displays of patriotism. To force, or coerce, compliance is a violation of the 1st amendment:

"If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us. We think the action of the local authorities in compelling the flag salute & pledge transcends constitutional limitations on their power, & invades the sphere of intellect & spirit which it is the purpose of the 1st Amendment ...to reserve from all official control. The decision of this Court in Minersville School District v. Gobitis, & the holdings of those few per curiam decisions which preceded & foreshadowed it, are overruled, and the judgment enjoining enforcement of the West Virginia Regulation is affirmed. West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette
APPEAL FROM THE DISTRICT COURT OF THE US FOR THE SOUTHERN DIST OF W. VIRGINIA

Argued: March 1943-Decided: June 1943

JUSTICE JACKSON delivered the opinion of the Court.http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html...

Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/09/08/3893546/mass-groups-seeks-school-pledge.html#ixzz1XsNiYtpC

[duel1980]

10:23 AM on 09/13/2011

Look people, if immigrants who become US citizens have to pass a civics test and say the Pledge of Allegiance during their citizenship ceremony, it certainly won't kill us to impose the same standard on children who are born here and thus automatically citizens too.

[Conuly]

04:30 PM on 09/15/2011

Wait, DO new citizens have to say it? Is that an ACTUAL requirement? I ask because a lot of people seem to think various things are laws that are not, so I want confirmation.

[duel1980]

04:36 PM on 09/15/2011

New citizens don't HAVE to say it but yes, they do the Pledge of Allegiance, and Yes, everyone is happy to do it, including the judge, the new citizens, and their friends and relatives who attend the ceremony! They also get their Citizen Certificate, and watch a video where the President makes a speech, and watch a music video of "I'm Proud to be An American". It's a very fun ceremony. I've been to two and let me tell you something, no one appreciates the freedoms Americans have more than an American immigrant!

[Tucson Mom]

09:29 AM on 09/13/2011

My son attended a charter school. A very good school that he received an excellent education at but...he never once learned the pledge or recited it. Never once did they sing or learn the national anthem. I think this is a tragedy. Both of these are part of a child's education and and have great lessons that can be learned from them. Omit the under God line if you must. It was added and never was in the original pledge but the rest of it is a pledge to aspire to greater standards (justice and liberty for all) and we can all benefit from that. As for the national anthem, it is a beautiful song that reminds us that America is resilient. They signify who we aspire to be and give us hope that even in the direst of times our flag was still there flying over the land of the free and these reminding us of just that. When will we as a society embrace the country we live in instead of constantly bashing it. It is not perfect. Like us as people, it is still a work in progress but also like us, it is a worthy goal to keep working on.

[Conuly]

10:15 AM on 09/13/2011

It's YOUR son. If you value learning these things, why didn't YOU teach them? You wouldn't say "Oh, my school didn't teach religion, so I didn't either" or "Oh, my school didn't teach table manners, so I didn't either", would you?

[Chris Wundrow]

11:02 PM on 09/12/2011

Hoo boy! Here we go--stirring up the hornets' nest again! And how many kids rattle off that Pledge every day without a clue as to what it means. I can't read or recite those words without a keen awareness that we, as a country, have been, if not always, certainly far too often, false to those words. "Liberty and justice for all...? Ask the Native Americans about that one--or the African-Americans.

[UnderTheHedgeWeGo]

06:09 PM on 09/12/2011

Why do we say the pledge?

Is it because we ALL believe the same thing. Do we all believe that government is important (ala "Liberals") or that all government is evil ("Conservatives"). Do we believe that we should work together to make government productive or do we believe we should spend money like water when we're the party in power and bring the government to its knees when the other party is in power? All this patriotism in the middle of all this unpatriotic discord.

All of you out there saying the pledge, do you also listen to what you say?

[UnderTheHedgeWeGo]

05:59 PM on 09/12/2011

Nothing says "Freedom" like the government telling your children what they must say in a government run school.

I tell my children "Do what's right, not what the government tells you to do just because it is the government. Think for yourself".

[bob40wil]

01:11 PM on 09/12/2011

If you go to another Country and attend a function that calls for them to sing their National Athem or pledge you would stand and be respectful of them, why can't American citizens or non citizens do the same in our schools.

[bob40wil]

01:08 PM on 09/12/2011

When I was in elementery school we not only did the Pledge but the Lords Prayer and the 24 Psalm, both from the New Testement, a good percentage of kids were Jewish but stood and remained respectfull during both. Respect for others in this Country is gone, it's all about me, mine, my group and whoa is me I'm being picked on, sad.

[Conuly]

04:45 PM on 09/12/2011

Notice you had no respect for the Jews and non-religious folks in your class. It's all about YOUR group.

[bob40wil]

06:24 PM on 09/12/2011

I've gone over my post a couple of times, I don't see what you mean, please enlighten me.

[bob40wil]

01:04 PM on 09/12/2011

There are a heck of a lot more that want to keep the pledge the way it is then those that don't.

[Conuly]

04:46 PM on 09/12/2011

And? A heck of a lot of people want lots of things, they don't all get it.

[Alex Croley]

11:53 AM on 09/12/2011

I'm critical of the idea, but that's because we need to bring back basic civics into our school. Teach our children how the government actually works, about the United States and why we say the pledge, along with its history.

[Conuly]

10:17 AM on 09/13/2011

Reciting the pledge != learning civics.

I mean, look on this thread. It's the pledge-insistent who think that the first amendment somehow doesn't apply to folks who don't agree with them. Ban this group, ban that sort of statement, send them away if they don't like talking about other people's gods (or have a religious reason not to say oaths or make pledges to things other than their God).

[Alex Croley]

01:31 PM on 09/13/2011

Fifteen seconds of reciting a few lines is not civics. Learning what the Constitution was, what the Amendments are such as the Bill of Rights. How the country works, and what the Branches of the Government is and how they are supposed to balance each other out. Actual Civics.

[Conuly]

10:51 PM on 09/11/2011

I don't get it. Why do students have to say the PoA in schools? If their parents think it's so important, why don't their parents hang up a flag and have them recite it every day (including weekends and holidays), along with maybe the American's Creed and, for fun, one of the Amendments in the Bill of Rights? Why is it up to the schools to teach patriotism? Shouldn't the parents be doing their part if they think this is so important?

(For that matter, why can so many people rattle off the PoA, but so few can recite what each of the first ten amendments promises? Priorities!)

[sillyfrog]

11:53 AM on 09/12/2011

I wonder how many repeat marriage vows every day.

[hipichick7]

02:41 PM on 09/11/2011

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.”
Sinclair Lewis

Except now our Flags are made in Chin@

[GrantRobertson]

12:44 PM on 09/11/2011

Forcing someone to pledge to anything when they don't really want to will almost always have an effect opposite from what was intended. If that isn't reason enough to not make kids say the Pledge of Allegiance then I guess the false patriots really are as stupid as all the cartoons make them out to be.

[Hifi]

08:07 PM on 09/10/2011

Part II.
More reasons why anyone, liberal or conservati­ve, religious or atheist, who is otherwise patriotic, should want to have the Pledge of Allegiance removed from public schools:

- Originally concocted by a company that sold flags as part of a plan to compel schools to buy flags.
- Unsavory connection with Nazis. The Pledge originally featured the Nazi-style salute. In fact, Hitler who got it from the Italian fascists who much admired, yep, kids in America doing it while saying the Pledge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute (Man, if that doesn't give you chills)
- Is patriotic lip-service in place of, even at the expense of, actual civic engagement and action. (Symbolic patriotism)
- By many Christians considered idolatry, taking the name of God in vain, swearing oaths
- Divides the nation (and the classroom) along religious lines. Only those represented by the Judeo-Christian "God" need apply as patriots. Ironic that "under God", comes right before "indivisible."
- Is hypocritical on the part of adults, bullying kids into doing something that adults themselves don't do. (You say the Pledge every day, do you, and on someone else's schedule?)
- And, last but not least, pledging allegiance to a flag is just stupid.

More at: http://members.cox.net/patriotismforall/