Rick Perry, Mitt Romney Spar Over Social Security 'Ponzi Scheme' Comments In GOP Tea Party Debate

Mitt Romney refused to let Rick Perry off the Social Security hook, challenging him at the start of the GOP debate Monday night to repudiate the position in his book that the old-age insurance program is a "Ponzi scheme" that should be run by the states.

"Do you still believe that Social Security should be ended as a federal program?" Romney asked.

"We should have a conversation," Perry replied.

"We're having that right now," Romney said. "You're running for president."

Perry didn't back down from the Ponzi rhetoric, arguing that "this is a broken system, it has been called a Ponzi scheme long before me."

"The term Ponzi scheme is over the top, unnecessary and frightening to many people," Romney replied.

Perry, as of the end of the exchange, was still holding on to the view that states should take a bigger role in the program -- a policy solution that would end Social Security.

The applause, however, was nearly all on Perry's side.

Just minutes after Perry and Romney's tense exchange, the Perry campaign sent out a press release headlined, "Setting the Record Straight on Social Security."

"While Governor Rick Perry is having an honest conversation with the American people about the future of Social Security, Candidate Mitt Romney is posturing and running from his past positions," writes the Perry camp.

The campaign is trying to argue that Romney has also tried to "scare" senior citizens about the state of Social Security, which the former Massachusetts governor is now accusing Perry of doing.

They point out a passage from "Citizen Romney's" book:

“Let’s look at what would happen if someone in the private sector did a similar thing. Suppose two grandparents created a trust fund, appointed a bank as trustee, and instructed the bank to invest the proceeds of the trust fund so as to provide for their grandchildren’s education. Suppose further that the bank used the proceeds for its own purposes, so that when the grandchildren turned eighteen, there was no money for them to go to college. What would happen to the bankers responsible for misusing the money? They would go to jail. But what has happened to the people responsible for the looming bankruptcy of Social Security? They keep returning to Congress every two years.”

During the debate, Perry said that Romney, in his book, had essentially called Social Security a "criminal" enterprise. The audience applauded loudly.

Romney accused Perry of quoting him inaccurately, responding: "What I said was Congress taking money out of the Social Security trust fund is like criminal, and it is, and it's wrong."

Comments

[aaazzz111]

12:00 AM on 09/15/2011

A Ponzi scheme is more related to the stock market, where investors gamble their money with unscrupulous players, on chancy odds of dangerous uncertain returns. The same market that is the only option offered by those wish to wantonly tinker with the Social Security system.

[JohnBryansFontaine]

09:26 AM on 09/14/2011

Perry’s ‘Ponzi Scheme’ Kept 14 Million Seniors Out Of Poverty Last Year
By Pat Garofalo

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/09/13/318028/perry-social-security-poverty/

[eyedzervit]

11:28 PM on 09/13/2011

At the current rate , the younger people will only see 20% of what they have paid into S.S. when they reach retirement age. Those who paid in first are getting theirs. That IS a pyramid game, pure and simple. Not intended to be one but it has turned out to be. Like it or not.

S.S. was never intended to be a person's sole sustenance in retirement. It was intended to be a SUPPLEMENT only. Also, the amounts paid in were based on the average life expectancy at the time is was created. They never envisioned people would be living as long as they are these days and using their SS as their one source of income.

The American purblic is too self-centered and short-sighted to see the problem in this. All most think about is "getting theirs". If it means that the generation or two after them don't, they don't give a damned. The Democrats know that the general populace is only concerned about themselves and RIGHT NOW and they use it to play up to them for votes.

[opinyunguy]

08:34 PM on 09/13/2011

Little can be said about candidates that have nothing to say. Who cloned this bunch?

[Analyst15]

07:40 PM on 09/13/2011

Perry has another Bush written all over him--dumb, emotional, makes faces, can't answer any real questions!! If we get another Bush in the WH, we are doomed!

[blandinbasement]

11:57 AM on 09/14/2011

we're doomed right now with Obama. Or maybe you are part of the population that has a job.

[abigtuna]

05:54 PM on 09/13/2011

Ponzi Scheme? Everyone knows that all the Social Security money is kept in $20.00 bills in safe under Obamas bed.

[Ice4you]

04:29 PM on 09/13/2011

Why do so many American think that SS is a retirement plan it's not. It's an insurance plan that pays you retirement benefits if your reach 65. If you are disabled earlier by accident or sickness you also get paid. If you die your spouse and children under 18 collect. I think it is on purpose that neither the Media or any of the parties explain this to the voters. Wall Street wants young people to think that this is only an retirement plan and they can do better investing it on Wall Street. This is all by design.

[pherron lowe]

04:18 PM on 09/13/2011

rick is "taken aback" why? they hate the health care bill. individual rights to the tea party means, (every man woman and child) you are on your own. can't pay. die. after a nights rest,him and his group came up with "we should be for life." in a coma no ins.what do we do governor. we should be for life.

[Ice4you]

03:36 PM on 09/13/2011

Why are they both lying. Nobody has stolen anything. It's by law that the extra income to SS is invested in US treasury bonds.

[Linda Edmondson]

03:34 PM on 09/13/2011

The personality's of these two men are starting to reveal themselves. I must say what a difference,the crowds seem to be loudly for Perry, but the voices are quitely speaking for Romney.

I will not refer to Mr. Perry as Gov. because he has let the people of Texas down.Those poor children in that detention center, it's unforgiveable. I being the Mother of three son's I have no mercy for him, when he knowingly allowed this to go on.
He has no business being the president, and a christian, this man does not know G-D.

SS is a talking point in this election that is keeping the real issue of JOBS off the table. There is nothing wrong with SS but they are happyly useing it to keep away from the more meaningful subjects like ; wars, schools, taxes,and health care.

[Ice4you]

03:38 PM on 09/13/2011

You are right Linda that is exactly what they are doing.

[anniesez455]

03:29 PM on 09/13/2011

"If you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much."

- Jim Rohn

[Ice4you]

03:40 PM on 09/13/2011

Really you can design your own life plan. You see the future and everything that might happen to you. You must be a millionaire knowing the next lotto numbers.

[anniesez455]

03:19 PM on 09/13/2011

Perry earned my respected by standing up to what he said and yes he is right unless it is reformed it will not be there for the young paying now. Of course everyone already on is cared for! As far as the shots for the young girls. I have chosed to do my two girls that were a little older then that. The shot is vitually useless AFTER they become sexually active. It also stops mouth cancers from the same virus!

[Ice4you]

03:42 PM on 09/13/2011

That is not remotely true. Perry is not telling the truth and does not seem to know anything about social security except the Tea Party talking Points. SS is in good shape and with little tweaking it will be there for ever.

[anniesez455]

03:49 PM on 09/13/2011

You opinion not mine. Perry is a great guy that keeps behind what he says. He gives you it straight off his shoulder. I like that and would find it refreshing compared to the rhetoric continues of campaigning Obama.

[leobeverly]

06:22 PM on 09/13/2011

Perrys biggest problem is using the word "Ponzi Scheme" to describe SS, it makes SS sound illegal,thus vunerable. SS is not in good shape and I'll explain why. When enacted there were approximatly 16 workers for every retiree and people then rarely lived to age 65. Today most people live longer than 65 and the worker to retiree ratio has shrunk to nearly 3 to 1 with huge group of baby boomers about to retire thus making the old system obsolete. Not doing anything will lead to its demise in a few years. It must be restructured,not done away with, thats what both Romney and Perry basically said but in different ways. SS was supposed to supplement your retirement,not be your total source of retirement income.

[bmitche]

02:55 PM on 09/13/2011

Thanks Matt !! Tell him to zip it on Social Security !!

[andidecker01]

02:10 PM on 09/13/2011

I would like to know the names of the OTHER PEOPLE Perry claimed who used the term PONZI SCHEME BEFORE HE DID when describing Social Security?

[Ice4you]

03:43 PM on 09/13/2011

His wife and children.

[kellym1120]

02:02 PM on 09/13/2011

Franklin Roosevelt, introduced the Social Security Program. He promised: participation would be completely voluntary - no longer voluntary; participants would only have to pay 1% of the first $1,400 of their annual incomes - now 7.65% on the first $90,000; the money elected to put into the program would be deductible from their income for tax purposes each year - no longer tax deductible; the money put into the independent 'Trust Fund' rather than into the general operating fund, would only be used to fund the Social Security Retirement Program and no other Government program - under Johnson the money was moved to The General Fund and spent; annuity payments to the retirees would never be taxed as income - under Clinton & Gore up to 85% of your Social Security can be taxed. Which Political Party took Social Security from the independent 'Trust Fund' and put it into the general fund so that Congress could spend it? Lyndon Johnson and the democratically controlled House and Senate. Which Political Party eliminated the income tax deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding? The Democratic Party. Which Political Party started taxing Social Security annuities? The Democratic Party, with Al Gore casting the 'tie-breaking' deciding vote as President of the Senate. Which Political Party decided to start giving annuity payments to immigrants? Jimmy Carter and the Democratic Party. Immigrants moved into this country and at 65 began to receive Social Security payments! The Democratic Party gave these payments to them, even though they never

[andidecker01]

02:14 PM on 09/13/2011

WHICH POLITICAL PARTY WANTS TO ELIMINATE HEALTH CARE, SOCIAL SECURITY MEDICAIDE,MEDICARE, AND THE RIGHT TO GET MEDICAL CARE REGARDLESS OF THE ABILITY TO PAY? OH, YES... AND TO BE ABLE TO LIVE?
SURE AS H**L AIN'T THE TPUBLICANS!

[Ice4you]

03:47 PM on 09/13/2011

Please educate yourself. The trust fund is not in the General fund. It's by law invested in US treasury bonds that the SS will sell over time to pay for Boomers retirement as it was created for by Reagan. It's was required by law to be invested in the safest thing there is US treasury bonds.