More

True High-Speed Rail Projects Unlikely To Be Fast-Tracked By Jobs Bill Funds

Amtrak American Jobs Act

First Posted: 09/16/11 03:54 PM ET Updated: 09/16/11 04:06 PM ET

When President Obama revealed his jobs bill last week, you could almost hear the high-fives from transportation advocates across the country.

If the Jobs Act were passed as-is -- which seems unlikely -- $50 billion would be spent on highways, mass transit, trains and planes. $10 billion more would be spent capitalizing a National Infrastructure Bank, one of the president's preferred methods of solving the jobs crisis.

Rail fans in particular had something to cheer. Last week the GOP-controlled House Transportation Committee voted to zero out federal money for local Amtrak routes. If that happens, railroads in the U.S. will become even more of an exotic Northeastern specialty.

In his Jobs Act, however, Obama put forth a sharply divergent vision: he proposed spending $4 billion to fund high-speed and intercity passenger rail and $2 billion more for Amtrak capital projects -- all of it within the next two years.

Those sums, said Petra Todorovich of America 2050, a national urban planning group, "would provide ample funding to make grants around the country again."

Todorovich sees plenty of projects in need. Simply modernizing our existing, slow-speed passenger rail system could easily consume all of the rail money in the American Jobs Act. What the jobs bill wouldn't do, however, is transform America's rail network by finishing any true high-speed rail projects that would resemble Japan's bullet trains or France's TGV.

Somewhat zippy trains like the Acela could see a boost, but finishing anything more ambitious would prove prohibitively expensive. Amtrak would like to upgrade the Northeast Corridor for high-speed rail, but that idea comes with a price tag of $117 billion. Florida's plan to connect Orlando and Tampa by high-speed rail, considered a top priority project by advocates, might have cost around $4 billion -- but Gov. Rick Scott (R) rejected the federal funds intended for it.

"What most high-speed advocates are looking for right now is to keep the funding going until we have a more favorable rail Congress," Todorovich said.

After rebukes from the Republican governors of Florida, Ohio and Wisconsin, only one "true" high-speed rail project, one that could travel at 225 mph, is still alive: California's.

That state, however, still has yet to break ground on the first segment of its high-speed rail project, which relies in large part on money from the 2009 stimulus. The state will spend billions of dollars on its first segment, but it needs billions more to create a stretch of track that hits enough cities to make running trains worthwhile.

High-speed rail, said Robert Puentes of the Brookings Institution's Metropolitan Policy Program, could potentially be "an enormously impactful project."

But just how transformative high-speed rail would be, he added, depends on "whether you're going to concentrate these funds on one corridor instead of spreading them around like peanut butter."

If California got enough of the $4 billion from the American Jobs Act, it might be able to create an initial operable segment -- North America's first true high-speed train. It wouldn't run between Los Angeles and San Francisco as the project ultimately aims to do, but it might connect places in-between like San Jose and Bakersfield. Whether that train could make money is another question. Critics have cast doubt on the project's ridership estimates, calling them far too optimistic.

A spokesperson for the California High-Speed Rail Authority, Rachel Wall, said she thought her state's project would "stand a very good chance at competing well for those funds" in the American Jobs Act.

But if President Obama was hoping to win over congressional Republicans, even those whose constituents could stand to benefit under his rail proposals, he may be out of luck.

House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) represents Bakersfield, where the high-speed train would make a stop. Construction work there could create jobs in Kern County, where unemployment is currently 14.4%. But McCarthy is still dead-set against high-speed rail.

“I continue to believe that California’s High-Speed Rail project is not viable," McCarthy said in a statement to The Huffington Post. "There are simply too many questions regarding the High-Speed Rail Authority’s business model and ridership projections that just don’t add up."

FOLLOW HUFFPOST POLITICS
Subscribe to the HuffPost Hill newsletter!
When President Obama revealed his jobs bill last week, you could almost hear the high-fives from transportation advocates across the country. If the Jobs Act were passed as-is -- which seems unlike...
When President Obama revealed his jobs bill last week, you could almost hear the high-fives from transportation advocates across the country. If the Jobs Act were passed as-is -- which seems unlike...
 
 
  • Comments
  • 429
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Highlights
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Next ›  Last »  (8 total)
  1 of 2  
COMMUNITY PUNDITS
photo
DRaymond 12:42 AM on 09/17/2011
I am glad that they zeroed out slow-speed Amtrak intercity service.  That is a money sink that is better served by bus service.

For real HSR to work you need city pairs with large air traffic that are about 150-600 miles apart.  That is the distance that you can provide competitive door-to-door times to air.  If you meet that test HSR operates at a surplus everywhere.  Even Acela  Read More...
10:47 PM on 09/17/2011
just pass this, but rename is the LA to Vegas Act....... get me there in under 2 hours obama!!!
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DevonTexas
Eternal Optimism
01:25 PM on 09/17/2011
Why do repugs have a problem with rail service?
photo
WhoIsNoOne
What I need is a Micro-Brew-o
02:23 PM on 09/18/2011
Republicans hate all mass transit. I think the word
mass is too close to the masses, and they think its
communism.
also, it requires long term thinking which they are not
capable of. If its not turning a profit the day after it's built then
it's not worth it
01:24 PM on 09/17/2011
The ridership doubts by the Peer Review committee has been revised (they are much more favorable to the Authority's estimate now), please update your article. See http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/assets/0/79/205/d04127b9-4b6e-4606-8d2a-b5806c959c4d.pdf , did you not visit the CHSRA authority website (that you linked to at the bottom) when researching your article?
photo
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
DRaymond
Network administrator, voiceovers
12:42 AM on 09/17/2011
I am glad that they zeroed out slow-speed Amtrak intercity service.  That is a money sink that is better served by bus service.

For real HSR to work you need city pairs with large air traffic that are about 150-600 miles apart.  That is the distance that you can provide competitive door-to-door times to air.  If you meet that test HSR operates at a surplus everywhere.  Even Acela operates at a surplus.  Improving Acela makes sense but it goes through some densely built areas so straightening the line (which is what you need to improve speeds) is expensive.

The LA-SF route is ideal  It is even safe to say that it is the most suitable still-unbuilt HSR route in the world.

The next most appropriate HSR route in the country is Miami-Atlata via Orlando and Jacksonville.  Orlando-Tampa is too short.

The third most appropriate HSR route would be LA-Vegas, although it is well behind LA-SF.

http://www.fulcrum.com/high-speed-rail.htm
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DevonTexas
Eternal Optimism
01:28 PM on 09/17/2011
"slow-speed Amtrak intercity service."

125 MPH is not enough for you? Seems fast enough to the rest of us. Better than having hundreds of single-person cars on the streets and highways.
photo
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
DRaymond
Network administrator, voiceovers
11:22 PM on 09/17/2011
Which Amtrak lines other than Acela hit 125 mph?  Certainly none that I have any awareness of.  And Acela does not need an operating subsidy!  Amtrak's conventional intercity service is better handled by buses.
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
ThatsTheTheWayItIs
religion, ideology, partisanship are delusional
10:35 PM on 09/16/2011
The future of rail in the US is freight, not passenger. It's why Buffett bought part of Burlington Northern. Uses much less oil than long-haul trucking, gets dangerous trucks off our roads. Trucks cause 90+% of damage to roads and bridges - diesel taxes should pay for their repair, not us. Fund the stimulus with incremental hikes in diesel taxes over next ten years.

We subsidize roads but not rail. Is that because truckers are in Teamsters Union?
12:50 PM on 09/17/2011
That is a great question.

It comes down to power, then? over what is best for the nation. How does this really factor out. Obviously, there will be expense to build a new system. But, we do that when we make war, or want to aid, nations around the world. Political advantageous, but now the USA needs the builders and we are not likely to have comperable aid given to us.

I love speed rail. Why not find how to make it work and include the problems of truckers? Jobs can be re-routed, after all.
photo
LiveMind
Emancipate yourself from mental slavery
03:41 PM on 09/17/2011
We subsidize roads but not rail, and air but not rail, because the detroit auto lobby was so powerful when the decisions were getting made (and still) and because the airline lobby also throws around a lot of money and influence. If we made these decisions based on the merits we would have had high speed rail long ago-- and more freight too. We need this as an affordable, ecologically viable alternative to driving and air, as something that will leave the air cleaner, help break our dependence on petroleum, save us money and time (reduce the burden on the roads and the frequency of needed repairs), and be a mode of travel less vulnerable to terorrism.
07:20 PM on 09/16/2011
Lot of pro-auto lobbyists (tro//s) on this thread, and the wild nature of their false and unsubstantiated claims are an accurate measure of their desperation.

High speed rail is coming, and they are shaking in their overalls.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DevonTexas
Eternal Optimism
01:30 PM on 09/17/2011
But why? That's my question. What's their fear of trains?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
NikitaKruschev
06:41 PM on 09/16/2011
Obama wants us to be like Spain with massive spending projects and then give us 20% unemployment.

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/english/Airports/for/everyone/elpepueng/20110510elpeng_1/Ten

On the first Sunday in April, the personnel at the Huesca airport watched the last commercial plane of the year take off. Destination, London. There were no displays of emotion among those present. The airport's more than 30 employees and the squad of six firefighters who work in an adjacent building have no reason to despair: their jobs are guaranteed, even if there are no flights for the rest of the year. Spain has way too many airports where there's no work to be done. One of them is Castellón, which was recently inaugurated with no airplanes - a circumstance that is due to be repeated in Murcia a few months from now. Another is in Ciudad Real, where half of the airport staff is sitting idle at home, affected by an officially approved redundancy plan (ERE). Meanwhile, the airport in Teruel is looking for an owner.

Yes...lets keep funding construction projects on things we dont need or want....just for the sake of spending.

Obama is a failure....2012 cant come here sooon enough.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
01:08 AM on 09/17/2011
Obama might be a failure, but our present economic system is in meltdown with each new technological creation. Now, more than ever, the US needs rapid rail connecting this country. It is a step away from being brought to our heels by foreing oil nations and their lobbies, which are fighting rapid rail with everything they have, just as big pharma and the insurance industry fought national single payer healthcare....When Americans finally have had enough and rebel against our insane militarism and wars and threaten the govt. maybe we, the people, will finally get attention and the infrastructure other nations take for granted.
12:54 PM on 09/17/2011
Your statements are wistful hopes of a party that has failed us through the years.

Speed rail is a great thing, and jobs can be re-directed. We pay for other nations to build their infrastructures. Now, we need to do it here.

Obama is not a failure, when what built this nation is not done...compromise. Re-thinking and adapting (as the Founding Father's did from the get-go). Obama has proven his willingness to consider the passionate issues of Republicans. They see that as weakness. Give us all a break. That is what should be going on. He is leader of a very diverse nation. Republicans want it all their way.
06:40 PM on 09/16/2011
A High Speed Rail project is potentially one of the biggest pork-barrel spending projects of recent times. Can someone show me the cost-benefit analysis that justifies this?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
NikitaKruschev
06:42 PM on 09/16/2011
They wont be able to because it will show it in a bad light.
photo
Erikhuffpost
Anything can happen within the next 5 minutes
08:20 PM on 09/16/2011
You seem to ignore that "high speed' has become big business in Europe.

Consortiums like Alsthom in France are competing with Germany's Siemens and China's Dong Feng for obtaining high spped rail construction deals.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Chess Pool
I am the 1/3000000th percent -not 1, not 99
06:38 PM on 09/16/2011
For any rail system to work, It takes a critical population density. We don't have it in most of the country.
07:21 PM on 09/16/2011
But in the northeast we do, so let the construction begin.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
01:13 AM on 09/17/2011
Agreed......the NE, the NW, California...Texas....Construction should have begun years ago....befofre hundred of thousands were killed in wars for oil
photo
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
DRaymond
Network administrator, voiceovers
11:31 PM on 09/17/2011
No,  while you might need density to make subways and other commuter rail systems HSR is different.

HSR is more like airplane travel.  Does it matter how dense the land you are flying over is populated?  In the same way it makes no difference if the landscape that is whizzing by at 200 mph is farmland or homes.  What you need for HSR is LARGE city pairs about 150-600 miles apart to anchor each end of the line and optionally a handfull ov medium size intermediate cities.   LA-SF is about the perfect HSR rail line.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
NikitaKruschev
06:37 PM on 09/16/2011
This is not to say the bullet train is causing Spain’s economic collapse – though this Cristina Vázquez story notes that building train infrastructure has been a drain on the flailing national economy. Moore also acknowledges the AVE’s burden on Spanish (and European) taxpayers:

The dark side of the story is that Spain over-invested in high-speed rail. To pay for the system, the government took out loans based on ballooning property values, which deflated in 2008-09. “That a country like Spain has more kilometers of AVE than any other nation aside from China makes no sense,” Ramón Lopez de Lucio, a professor from the Architecture School of Madrid, told the AFP news wire in January.

But that’s another way of saying that high-speed rail is expensive, so building it requires wisdom and restraint.
photo
earto44
Defender of planet Erf.
06:34 PM on 09/16/2011
GOP: We need to stop any plans for high speed rail. It will make the President look good, and create jobs." No one in the Republican party better support this or they will voted out of office.

These guys are creeps .
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
NikitaKruschev
06:36 PM on 09/16/2011
No....the issue is no one wants high speed rail. We have regular rail already that loses billions every year because no one takes it.

Its cheaper and faster to fly. Have you even looked at Amtrak schedules???

We just happen to believe in fiscal responsibility.....Liberals just want to throw money down the drain.
photo
earto44
Defender of planet Erf.
06:44 PM on 09/16/2011
Wrong. No one wants to ride a train that is about as fast as driving your own car. We are so behind with what other countries have provided because of people like you that think it's ok if the United States is # 47 in infrastructure. ( Including speed rail.) This is sad. If there was a high speed train that ran from Los Angeles to Las Vegas it would be the hot ticket of any travel. You need to look at other places that have high speed rail, and ask why it is that they are profitable.
photo
Sneakers1
Animal Lover
06:55 PM on 09/16/2011
No one takes Amtrack b/c it's unreliable. I disagree w/you that that's cheaper & faster to fly. Homeland security ring a bell? How many hours do you have to arrive to an airport to catch a flight -- and than be subjected to molestation & groping, not to mention the long lines -- a product of the Bush administration.

Talking about fiscal responsibility -- where were you when Bush was spending $ like a drunken sailor on 2 illegal wars? Talking about throwing $ down the drain. Give me a break,
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
partisanpolitico
A limited-time offer
06:29 PM on 09/16/2011
Good. We can't get Amtrak up to it's speed limit now.
Better buses and fix the bridges and roads.
Consarnit !!!
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
01:14 AM on 09/17/2011
Amtrack does not own the tracks it is forced to use......they are in secondary position to freight carriers and have no control of their speed....GeeZus, where do people like you come from?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
kcwookie
Well behaved workers seldom prosper.
10:20 PM on 09/18/2011
Fox news.
06:29 PM on 09/16/2011
Is this high-speed rail another one of those shovel ready projects that's going to put American's to work right now? Oops I forgot: Brought to you by the Big O "Guess those shovel ready projects weren't as shovel ready as we thought". I am truly inspired. And as to some of us Americans living in the past? I wish I did. I had a steady paycheck and a stable job.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
01:17 AM on 09/17/2011
thanks to the GOP for deregulating banks, subsidizing off shoring of jobs, subsidizing oil and other industries....blaming Obama is simply stupid...you might wish you lived in the past, because the future of this country was mapped out when Bush and his cabal failed to stop 9/11 and chose war over America's future.
01:04 PM on 09/17/2011
Then re-educate yourself so you can compete in the world job market where US citizens are loosing out. Yes, I know there are problems. They were brought on by various world issues and mis-steps by Conservative politicies being implimented. It isn't going to be easy.

The Irish are tough and intelligent, irish57. You can do it.
02:56 PM on 09/17/2011
Yes we are tough and intelligent. And we can spell. Tough and intelligent enough to make it through school on nickels and dimes and Ramen noodles for a Nursing Degree. I suppose that doesn't count to a lib as a job that can "compete" in the world market though. Probably too low-brow. But here's a medical tip just for you. If you need a transfusion, make sure you don't get any of that repug stuff. Even if lib donations are in short supply take a pass and tough it out. You stay pure libbie.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
boyer37212
06:24 PM on 09/16/2011
Why all this fuss over high speed rail all across America?

Yeah, I think in a few corridors, high speed makes sense. But I think 75 MPH trains make sense for many places.

Let's say I was going from Nashville to St. Louis (the former where I live, the latter where I grew up and visit). I have always driven that trip (never flown). It's a 305 mile trip. It takes about five hours.

I'd love to take a train home. And if it took about the same as a car drive, I'd be taking a train up there rather than a car all the time. If I really needed to hurry home, I can fly.

We could probably add a lot of "old fashioned" train routes that make sense for transportation and would work just fine.

I just think this high-speed stuff is a lot of hype.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
rysagr
whip me beat me just don't bore me to death
06:26 PM on 09/16/2011
good point
photo
earto44
Defender of planet Erf.
06:35 PM on 09/16/2011
You are so 1980. Thank you for playing.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
kcwookie
Well behaved workers seldom prosper.
10:22 PM on 09/18/2011
Flying is so 1984.
Mochilero
Have backpack, will travel
06:23 PM on 09/16/2011
If the Tea Party gets its way, it will soon be presiding over a nation in decay. An appropriate example is what happened when Mexico City implemented no driving days by the last digit of the license plate being odd or even. The wealthy simply bought another car with an opposite number. Is that really the kind of society we want to live in?
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
rysagr
whip me beat me just don't bore me to death
06:27 PM on 09/16/2011
yeah kind of like the dems with gas lines in the 70's good point
Mochilero
Have backpack, will travel
06:47 PM on 09/16/2011
Hey rysagr, I'm probably being thick here, but what did the gas lines have to do with political affiliation?
01:09 PM on 09/17/2011
The Republican policies and changing restrictions that brought on the depression of the 30's is what has helped bring on this crisis now.

I would not put it up for a count, if you are smart.

We all need to work together, and your pointy finger leaves three pointing back at you.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
01:19 AM on 09/17/2011
America had been in decay for years....look around you.....filthy cities, crumbling roads, bad bridges, an outdated electric grid and a 19th Century train system but the country continues to ignore the warning signs of shortages in resources....