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European Debt Crisis: Financial Troubles Pose Challenge To European Unity

European Debt Crisis

By GABRIELE STEINHAUSER   09/17/11 11:44 AM ET   AP

WROCLAW, Poland -- The latest backdrop for European financial crisis talks was Wroclaw, Poland – or Breslau, as the picturesque city on the Oder River is still known in Germany.

As Europe's finance chiefs bounce from meeting to meeting trying to hash out a strategy to contain their debt troubles, the city's history may serve as a reminder of what is at stake: a hard-won European unity that followed centuries of ravaging wars and has slowly enveloped the former Communist states in the continent's east.

Fears of a sovereign default have already forced three countries – Greece, Portugal and Ireland – into multibillion euro bailouts and are now sending ripples though the global economy and world markets.

But the European debt crisis is about much more than just the euro currency that 17 of its 27 nations use.

"We should all be aware what the stake of the game is. Because the game is not only about the well-being of this generation or the next generation, but is goes without saying we're also fighting for the safety of this and future generations," Polish Finance Minister Jacek Rostowski said after yet another gathering that failed to convince markets that Greece won't default on its massive debts and big economies like Italy and Spain can effectively be ringfenced from the current turmoil.

In Rostowski's mind it is clear.

"If the eurozone were to split, it is difficult to imagine for the European Union not to split as well," he says."It is difficult to imagine Europe to be as safe as it is now without the European Union."

A quick look at Wroclaw's history illustrates what the minister is referring to. The city – spread out over several river islands and sometimes referred to as the Venice of the North – changed nationality multiple times in the past 400 years, moving between Bohemia, Austria, Poland and Germany and was once even occupied by Napoleon's troops.

In 1945, Breslau was one of the last vestiges of Nazi Germany. When the city finally fell to Soviet troops after a monthslong siege, tens of thousands of its inhabitants had died. The remaining Germans then had to leave as Breslau once again became Wroclaw and soon fell under Polish Communist rule.

Today, Poland's currency is not the euro and after years of working toward joining the currency union, the country has declared that, at least right now, dropping the zloty and adopting the euro is not worth the risk.

That announcement shows that Europe at a critical juncture. Either expansion stops and some struggling members, like Greece, may even have to drop out, or its sovereign nation states embrace much closer union, where a central authority rules over taxes and spending, and where national bond issues may be backed by all euro countries.

"We have not yet arrived where a full currency union should be and the crisis has shown it is not enough to have common rules, they need to be enforced," said Luxembourg Finance Minister Luc Frieden. "And everything that can contribute to that is absolutely necessary."

Frieden's counterparts said Friday night they had just taken a big step in that direction. After a year of infighting, the 27 finance chiefs signed off on tougher budget rules that make it easier to punish overspenders and raise red flags when a government risks breaking the bloc's limits on debts and deficits.

But – most states, economists and the European Central Bank now agree – the new rules are far from enough for the 17-nation eurozone.

Luxembourg, Italy and Belgium want joint eurobonds – debt guaranteed by the entire eurozone, not just individual nations. The Netherlands have proposed a powerful budget czar who would scrutinize overspenders and could ultimately kick stragglers out of the currency union. And European Central Bank head Jean-Claude Trichet wants a single finance minister for the whole eurozone.

But the yearlong struggle over the most recent spending regulation indicates how difficult it will be to implement any of these proposals, which many analysts say may be the only way of keeping the euro alive.

Germany has ruled out eurobonds, and France is so wary of submitting to financial sanctions that it insisted on complicated voting procedures that still allow states to stop punishments proposed by the EU's executive Commission.

While the recriminations and disagreements that have characterized Europe's bailout discussions over the past two years are far from the wars that previously rocked the continent, they have boosted far-right, euro-skeptic parties in several richer states and triggered violent anti-austerity demonstrations in the poorer ones.

In any case, economists warn, a failure of the euro could push Europe, and with it many other parts of the world, into another recession, hurt global trade and eliminate thousands of jobs.

For now, Europe's finance chiefs insist, a failure of the euro, or even one of the euro states, is not an option and the strategy of rescue loans and painful austerity measures will continue.

And in the medium and long-term, Frieden insists, "More is possible and more is necessary."

"If you have a currency union, you certainly also need more elements of a political and of an economic union. That was clear from the outset when we started this project some 10, 15 years ago," said the Luxembourg finance minister whose name – Frieden – is the German word for peace.

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WROCLAW, Poland -- The latest backdrop for European financial crisis talks was Wroclaw, Poland – or Breslau, as the picturesque city on the Oder River is still known in Germany. As Europe's fin...
WROCLAW, Poland -- The latest backdrop for European financial crisis talks was Wroclaw, Poland – or Breslau, as the picturesque city on the Oder River is still known in Germany. As Europe's fin...
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08:54 AM on 09/25/2011
What is a bit worrying is that the financial histroy of Europe might be repeated
all over again.
And also quite amazing is the ignorance of those aspects of European history
and hence the surprise when one even briefly looks into this that history.
http://socratesbooks.blogspot.com/2011/09/financial-history-of-western-europe.html
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McKeaton
08:58 PM on 09/19/2011
All deals and "in the shade" men leading the Euro banks, for the period 2001-2008, were Goldman Sachs alumni( big info always missed by the" free" media).
Same template, with housing debt and securazation , with soverign debt.( unable people or countries to payback overlevereged loans). The bigest profiteeres are here...Germany , I hopre will never get trapped into this mess, yhey didn't create, but are presented to have done it...
08:26 PM on 09/19/2011
A political union of 27 different countries with one "elected"?? leader is never going to happen.
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David Hall 3
...Binders FULL of Hedge Fund Looters...
07:40 AM on 09/19/2011
The level of economic cataclysm throughout global finance, particularly in Dollar and Euro segments, is accelerating toward inevitable failure, with orderly break up of the Euro, rather than its preservation, now considered by solvent backers as 'Plans B and C'.

Geithner's staunch advocacy for public taxpayer bailouts of bondholders, done for Wall Street under his guidance as Treasury Secretary, was laughed at during the emergency negotiations of European Finance Ministers over the last week.

I found one reply to Geithner's forcefully projected remedial suggestions (with a sizable Fed purchase of Euro's as bait) salient -- coming from Austria's Maria Fekter: "...peculiar that even though the Americans have significantly worse fundamental [economic] data than the Eurozone, that they tell us what we should do."

Why this last minute panic from Geithner, the U.S. Feds and the Obama Administration over the last week? I wonder...

2008-9 could end up a cake walk compared to 2011-12, with EU Ministers reluctant to continue throwing money at Greece for austerity measures that only further unwind the economy there, Spain now under such economic pressure that large regions of the country can no longer pay for utilities, and public sector employees issued warnings that the state has run out of cash, and Italy having failed to force the creation of pressure-relieving EuroBonds regrets having bailed out the private sector banks which now threaten to destabilize public sector balance sheets.

Another, vastly larger series of bubbles is ready to burst.
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vippy
Carpe Diem!
12:13 PM on 09/19/2011
I remember when Merkel approached Geithner and told him about the US interferring with the value of the Euro. Dirty dealings from the US all around. Merkel is strong but can she withstand the pressure from the US?
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David Hall 3
...Binders FULL of Hedge Fund Looters...
11:30 PM on 09/19/2011
Indeed. It's interesting to note that many of the Finance Ministers in Europe actually suggest that their taxpayers back home may decide to bail out neither Greece nor the banking sector, nor even the Euro itself, at this point.

If the Euro begins to disintegrate, as sooner or later it must, given the gargantuan and exponentially expanding fires all across Europe, nearly every nation in the EU will suddenly become bankrupt, as will an enormous number of institutions holding on to bonds -- private sector banks, foreign sovereigns, wealth mismanagement firms.

The President again today sounded alarmist at one of his very public fundraiser events: "U.S. Will Go Down 'Perilous Path' If Leaders Don't Pass This Minimal Backstop Jobs Legislation quickly!" And Geithner continues to make his desperate rounds through the EU roundtable that is not-too-quietly debating the merits of attempting to unwind the entire Euro currency without demolishing global economics. Good luck on that one.

The next few months should be very exciting ones in what has traditionally been the most boring component of systems theory for the last relatively stable 80 years -- economics.
03:17 AM on 09/19/2011
Germany seems to be bailing on the Euro Union experiment as fast as they can trade all their Euros for $$ Bernankes Fed Window, and offload all their bad loans onto American Banks. Can you say PIIGS! (That's Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain)...Yahoo. This mess could actually bring on a worldwide Depression. I just wish I was more sucessful at vegetable gardening, I'm thinking my family may be hungry in the future.
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Derek Lantin
Writer.
11:31 PM on 09/18/2011
Sir

The first domino to fall will, of course, be Greece.

The EU leaders are currently promising continued support for Greece , but insist that in return, the Greek authorities must stick to the austerity measures that were previously agreed by the Greeks, but not implemented.

On past performance, there is little evidence that the Greek population will be prepared to abide by the austerity measures required, and rightly so.

There seems little point in adhering to the austerity packages if it is clear that they will not work. The so-called “rescue” programs will probably push Greece further into recession; that will leave Greece saddled with more debt relative to the size of its economy that it is now. Put simply, the economy will become smaller, the debt will remain or increase and the ratio of debt to GDP will therefore increase.

Put quite simply, Greece should (and could) renege on it’s debts and should leave the Euro.

Sincerely, Derek Lantin. http://dereklantin.booksabuzz.com
01:22 PM on 09/19/2011
While I agree with most of your analysis (Greece is bankrupt/needs to default; the austerity measures as implemented are not supported by the Greek puplic; the austerity causes/ will continue to cause the Greek economy to shrink), your solution (renege the debt, leave the Euro) falls entirely short. That is because of how these issues are connected.

Say, Greece even defaults on 100% and leaves the Eurozone (assuming that would be made possible. Right now, you can only leave the EU as a whole). Immediately what remains of their banking system would be washed away, their central bank cut off from the ECB. Also, the budget would not be balanced at all. Ofc the new currency would depreciate, maybe nominally the Greek government/state could meet most of its obligations regarding payment of public servants, pensions, etc., etc. . But in substance, since they depend for most daily items on what is produced outside of Greece (we are talking about supermarkets, oil, electricity, communication) they still have to give-or-take pay the same prices than anybody else. And these prices will soar.
01:22 PM on 09/19/2011
Next is the fact that they simply lack an efficient tax collecting administration, that some companies in public ownership are inefficiently staffed as part of a "clientile" political system that was run over decades now (there is nothing wrong with public ownership! But you can't employ twice as many people as needed at decent [if compared to other European countries] salaries and offering the service at a competitive price).
On the other hand, the fiscal options of the other European states to help would be seriously limited. You can spend any Euro only once. If the money is needed to contain the fallout of a Greek default, then there is simply not much left to support Greece/ to easy the pain of such a move. Not to speak about the fact that the political will might just not be there.
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Derek Lantin
Writer.
10:20 PM on 09/19/2011
Indeed.That is precisley the way that Greeks are. They are not going to change just because some stern faced germans tell them to.

This really does show how foolish was the "one size fits all" concept of the Euro.

Also, it is perhaps worth mentioning that when the Greeks were being profligate with their new found Euro wealth, I do not remember hearing any bureaucrats from Brussels blowing whistles or sounding warning sirens. On the contrary, they were all preening themselves at the so -called "success" of their Euro concept.

Regards, Derek
11:15 PM on 09/18/2011
Laissez-fa­ire capitalism will produce the same result. When the game is one of Darwinian Monopoly there is only the winner.
wsdave
Abusive or Insulting? I won't be responding.
01:25 AM on 09/19/2011
Actually, the biggest (and most) monopolies are caused by GOVERNMENTS, not by Laissez-fa­­ire Capitalism.
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dcflush
The nickname is about poker, not politics
10:43 AM on 09/19/2011
In the United States of America, far more monopolies have been prevented by government than started by them.
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becky bradshaw
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth
10:10 PM on 09/18/2011
"According to figures compiled by Eurostat, the EU’s statistics office, the minimum retirement age in Greece last year was 61.4. In Germany it was 62. Of course there have been some exceptions to the rule in Greece but they have been exactly that: exceptions. The discrepancy in retirement ages between Greece and Germany is marginal. In fact, the pension reform bill voted through the German parliament in 2007 aims to raise the minimum retirement age to 63 by 2029. The pension law passed in Greece last year will raise the retirement age to 63.5 by 2015."

"If the last year has taught us anything, it is that millions of Greeks, who want to be part of a modern, efficient country and a progressive EU, are trapped. They are caught between austerity measures that are choking the economy, politicians at a national and European level that lack courage and a state apparatus that is not fit for the 21st century."

Reference: http://www.greekcity.com.au/content.cfm?id=6671
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Derek Lantin
Writer.
11:37 PM on 09/18/2011
Quite right. Greece cannot compete as long as it is shackled to the Euro.
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vippy
Carpe Diem!
05:23 AM on 09/19/2011
Germany has had the same retirement age as the USA, 67 years of age for people born in 1946.  1945 it was 66 and before that is was 65.
10:01 PM on 09/18/2011
Please, please, please...go back to the DMark, Franc, Kroner, Lira, etc. This is a failed model, without the enforcement mechanism of a unified tax/benefit structure.

Financial version of Esperanto; There's too many centuries of culture variance to pull this off now.

Keep the EuroRail Pass though, that was a great idea!
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Derek Lantin
Writer.
11:39 PM on 09/18/2011
Yes, it is a failed model. As Margaret Thatcher pointed out at the very outset, a single currency would unfairly burden the weaker economies.
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vippy
Carpe Diem!
07:08 PM on 09/18/2011
If a country spends more than it takes in that is poor management and those should not be carried by the other nations that are austere in their spending and care about their overall well being.  Would you help an addict financially, knowing it is for the birds while you work hard to make a living?
08:32 PM on 09/18/2011
Well the problem is that families do it all the time because they don't know how to use "tough love" and stick to their guns.  This is the same thing with this group of nations.  First, can everybody even agree what is considered over-spending?  The US can't agree on that.  Heck, one party is insulted with just the idea of balancing a budget.  Those wanting to balance the budget are considered reckless and anti-American. 

I guarantee you that the nations that behave well, probably always will based on culture and work ethic, while those behaving badly may have learned a lesson, but doubtfully because they have a different standard.  Look I have friends that have done very well in life using 10 or more credit cards and just flipping balances.  They leveraged themselves a lot more than I did, and have a lot more than I do.  I can sleep at night, but then I think they can too because they have a different standard.  I don't like being in debt, while they bask in it.
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vippy
Carpe Diem!
05:26 AM on 09/19/2011
You and I thought alike.  I had one credit card and I paid it off every month, otherwise it presented a burden to me.  I always wondered, with my income, the tax adviser told me I had great income,
why other people had so much more to show for, but I can say one thing, everything I planned I bought with cash and I did not have to lie and cheat just to get a discount.
10:24 AM on 09/19/2011
The North, mostly Germany, has benefitted hugely from the Euro because the weaker economies has kept the exchange rate low whereas before Germany always had a huge problem with the Deutchmark going too high.

If they, as everything seems right now, refuse to help the southern nations and they have to leave the Euro, it (the Euro) will appreciate to a level where Germanys competitiveness will drop off a cliff.

Germany made the PIIGS into debt addicts to keep their own exports (and banks lending the PIIGS the dough) going.
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vippy
Carpe Diem!
12:09 PM on 09/19/2011
No one can convince me that these nations unwillingly took this course of action not knowing the outcome. May I point to the G8 Meetings again and again. This mess did not happen overnight. I am sure, it all is a plan and the results we shall find out soon enough.
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07:06 PM on 09/18/2011
If I remember correctly, the Norwegian people twice rejected the idea of joining the European Union. At the time I did not understand why, but in hindsight, they are much better off staying on the kroner.

It appears that joining the European Union is like co-signing your neighbor's application for a car loan. You get nothing but risk, without any upside. The best that any member of the Euro zone can hope for is that the whole thing won't implode.
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Erikhuffpost
Anything can happen within the next 5 minutes
07:23 PM on 09/18/2011
It's like "Hotel California".

You can check in anytime, but you can never leave....
08:35 PM on 09/18/2011
Too late.  The only thing keeping it all together is egos at this point.  Those that pushed this idea would rather die than see it fall apart. 

Many years ago, tech companies set up shot in Ireland.  We even had the Irish workers come here to the US to see our operations.  US companies got a tax deal to build in Ireland.  We can argue about shipping jobs, but my point is that Ireland set this system up for themselves.  Now that they are a part of the EU, those tax incentive got taken away from them in the name of fairness.  So their advantage just went down the toilet.  This boggles the mind why many nations got enticed into this "marriage".
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StJames
In absentia luci tenebrae vincunt
10:12 AM on 09/19/2011
Ireland has a 12%  corporate tax rate...and is used as a tax haven by many corporations....they are reaping what they have sown.
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06:56 PM on 09/18/2011
Under the current system, countries like Germany and France are liable for the debt incurred by a country like Greece, but Germany and France have no say in the economic policies enacted by the Greek government. This does not make sense.

It seems to me that the idea of a common currency, the Euro, is doomed, if individual countries can undermine the value of the Euro.
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vippy
Carpe Diem!
07:09 PM on 09/18/2011
Who pushed the Germans into the EURO?  I know the Germans rejected it and were the only country that was not allowed to "vote" on it.  It was forced on them in 2001.
wsdave
Abusive or Insulting? I won't be responding.
01:47 AM on 09/19/2011
It will be interesting to watch them remove themselves.
08:37 PM on 09/18/2011
Agreed.  Many of the people in these nations were either skeptical or outright not supportive of joining the EU.  It was certain governments that LOVED the idea.
06:20 PM on 09/18/2011
Dear Friends,

The vast majority of countries joined the EU because it was in their best interest, they were able to borrow money at very low rates, and had a stable currency.

The flip side of this is, to borrow money at low rates you have to not borrow more than you can pay back, and it is imossible to have a stable currency when you do not have a stable country.

The countries like German that were exporting products, and making loans thought this was great, they had a captive market for products. What they forgot is at some point these countries have to pay back the loans, and no EU minister is going to make Greece go without to pay loans.

The first day the interest payments are greater than the amount of new loans they default, it really is that simple.

We are in the same spot, we love to borrow money the costs to borrow 15T are about 2 percent or 300B a year, so we are borrowing 1.5T and paying 300B a year in interest.

That means we have created 1.2T dollars of wealth out of thin air, but if interest rates went to ten percent, then that means we are paying 1.5T in interest and borrowing 1.5T more money.

At this point we are destroying 1.5 of wealth, and our standard of living drops fast, inflation goes up fast, and the standard of living of working people drops.
08:42 PM on 09/18/2011
Our current servicing of our debt is 250 billion yearly which is still a sizable amount.  It is predicted that by 2014 that debt servicing will cost 525 billion yearly which is a hefty increase.  Actually by 2016 our gross public debt will be over 20 trillion.  Today, people keep saying our gross public debt is 14 trillion not of course including internal promises to pay entitlements.  However that gross debt is much closer to 15 trillion  right now.
10:01 PM on 09/19/2011
Dear VeryCold,

I have seen estimates that puts all public debt in the US at 100T, if you count all the promises made to everybody.

We are in a lot of trouble, and we are gong to see conditions not seens in the use for 70 years, and we will only have our families to count on.

We produce enough food, and energy for us basic needs, but our way of life is going to come to end as we know it.

I have seen where we are going based on my travels, and trust me when I say, I am very sorry for all the people that will suffer.

Once our dollar fails, inflation will go thru the roof, and people will no longer look for green power, they will look for power they can afford.
06:01 PM on 09/18/2011
Congratulations to Poland and a few other European countries for figuring a little Euro-trick out!

What country in a right mind would voluntarily switch from printing its own money for free, to borrowing the same money from a foreign private bank at 'interest' ??? (oops, .. the rest of Europe did exactly that).
06:23 PM on 09/18/2011
Dear Nogimmicks,

Poland can not print money for free, only countries like the US or the EU can because their currency is used for world trade.

Anybody that thinks our printing of money has no effect on us, just needs to look at our econony, and you would undertand that the major of what is wrong with is government policies that started with Carter and have gone on for a long time.
06:47 PM on 09/18/2011
Started with Nixon, he tossed the gold out with empty dumb pill bottles.
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Derek Lantin
Writer.
11:45 PM on 09/18/2011
Agreed.
cdterm47
I am poor because I am a River to my People
05:44 PM on 09/18/2011
Gabrielle Steinhauser should get a bonus for this article. They are so rare on HP. Or at least give her a badge or three or four.