Companies Get Gay Rights Heat Over Christian Donations

nytimes.com:

The culture war over gay rights has entered the impersonal world of e-commerce.

Read the whole story: nytimes.com

Comments

[jthor]

05:41 PM on 10/04/2011

it's hard to believe that in 2011 we have to still deal such nonsense from all of these superstitious "god people." i don't care what you "believe," especially if you still eat shrimp.

gay people exist and have rights, they harm no one. i read something recently that "homosexual behavior has been observed in over 150 species. homophobia has only been observed in one." how 'bout them apples?

[kellygreen]

07:06 PM on 10/04/2011

Prejudice has no rational basis...and you will never argue anyone out of them by presenting them with factual arguments. Trying to reason with irrationality is a waste of time.

Prejudices are about Emotion (fear), Group Identity...and POWER. The Power to dominate and control other people's lives. Which is reason why so many of the worlds most prejudiced people are those whose own lives are so miserable and powerless.

They try to gain some measure of self-esteem by standing on the backs (and necks) of others.

[Erin84]

11:10 AM on 09/27/2011

This issue is constantly reframed as the godless gays versus all people of faith. That doesn't even remotely cover it. If we gays had a problem with people simply because they have religion, we wouldn't have too many friends, would we? What is it, 70, 75 % of people identify as Christian in this country? What about gay people who are religious and attend gay-affirming churches. The issue is anti-gay "family" groups, who just happen to use certain versions of Christianity to recruit people to their cause. We simply do not want to spend our money on a product if we know that company has a business relationship with an anti-gay group. Such groups have spent millions lobbying and campaigning successfully against simple legal, secular rights that gays should have had yesterday, but are still fighting for. We don't want to support those efforts in even an indirect way, and it is our perfect right to choose which businesses to support and which to leave alone, just as it is the right of the business owner to have beliefs of his own.

[Ioan Lightoller]

01:05 PM on 09/27/2011

Although I am Pagan, I do have Christian friends. I respect their rights to their beliefs. Where I have a problem is a group of Christianists thinking they should call the shots as to how everyone else should live.

I agree, if a company wishes to donate to groups that want to work to limit my rights, I do not wish to give those companies my patronage. Christianists are acting as if there is no longer freedom to pick which companies to patronise and which to not patronise and to urge others we know to not patronise businesses which contribute to hate groups. Such is not the case. We can still do this and we will.

[kellygreen]

07:11 PM on 10/04/2011

That is because you are dealing with a group of people whose outlook on life is authoritarian and tribal. As a result they do not understand (or accept) Freedom as a Universal Principle.

They will argue all day long about their own freedoms...but will not hesistate to use their own power to limit the freedoms of other people who are different from themselves and live according to different values.

Just as freedom of Religion is not about everyone being able to worship (or not) as they choose...but their own freedom to worship (and prevent other religions from doing so if they have the power necessary.)

In short, you are up against the remnant of the same sort of tribal mentality that makes our attempts to "export democracy" to developing nations fail.

Democracy only works when people are more loyal to the nation and the democratic process, than they are to the power of their own "tribe".

So people, unfortunately lose patience with democracy the SECOND it gets in the way of the interests of their "group"...and having things THEIR WAY.

[Kathi Ryan]

12:47 AM on 09/27/2011

Microsoft and Apple have 100 on the HRC equality index while Wal-Mart has 40 and Netflix has no rating.

[Ioan Lightoller]

01:10 PM on 09/27/2011

That says a lot, doesn't it? Well, they have to appeal to their "base", don't they?

[Annette Hammond]

10:38 PM on 09/26/2011

SHAME on walmart! And now i know there was a good reason to close my netflix acct.

[Targetdog]

08:38 PM on 09/26/2011

The American Family Association has been busy organizing boycotts against Ben & Jerry's, the AARP, and Dancing With The Stars. Waiting for Huckabore to proclaim them economic terrorists any minute now.

[Ioan Lightoller]

10:26 AM on 09/27/2011

Fanned and faved. This crap has just gotten tiring. GLBT lives do not affect those of the bigots, but they absolutely do not wish to leave us alone to live our lives. What is it to them if we are allowed to legally marry? What is it to them if we have families? I am probably the least child-oriented person on the planet but I cannot understand what is bad about giving a child a stable, loving home rather than staying in the foster care system. Instead they come up with crap like NOM and fight our getting rights at every turn. Yeah, haters, this has gotten personal--real personal.

You can bet that Huckabore won't say a word about it because, for him, it's only "economic terrorism" when GLBT wish to use our "lavendar dollar" to influence corporations, but it's fine and dandy when they want to do it. So sick of fundies and their BS.

[onionboy]

07:54 PM on 09/26/2011

Apple, in particular, needs to be careful. If the gay community stops buying Apple...would they even sell anymore macbooks?

OK...maybe ten.

[Kathi Ryan]

12:21 AM on 09/27/2011

When I was growing up I hear you could identify a gay person if they had oily eyes, things sure have changed, I can do now it if they own a Mac.

[onionboy]

02:52 AM on 09/27/2011

I'm just saying...I know a lot of gay people and I would say that 8 out of 10 own macs...which is WAY above the average. Apple is in the same class with Cher and Kathy Griffin. Do they have straight fans? Of course. But are there many gay men who DIS-like either of them? Not that I've asked every person I know, but I would say it's pretty few.

[Erin84]

11:00 AM on 09/27/2011

Oily eyes? I'm so confused.

[Jay from Ottawa]

06:27 PM on 09/26/2011

These are simply businesses who are hungry for money and will do whatever they believe is the most profitable move. The majority of the businesses mentioned have no interest in making the world a better place, only in growing their profit margin and paying out execs and shareholders, it's as simple as that.

Example, all businesses taking part in this marketting program were making extra money off of the extra sales. Now that it's been blown open and everyone knows about it, some companies are looking at their client base and making a decision: will staying with this marketting firm get me more sales or will I lose out on sales because of the public backlash ? And there you have it, some companies left fearing the backlash wasn't worth the extra sales, and some stayed, assuming they'll get more sales through the firm than they'll lose from the public backlash.

[nohopepope2187]

02:08 PM on 09/26/2011

I'm tired about hearing gays cry oppression. I'm tired of hearing blacks cry discrimination. I'm tired of hearing rich white people complain about their problems. I'm tired of losing so much money at Native American casinos (ok, that one was a joke.)

In ancient times, homosexuality was accepted by many cultures. Warriors often engaged each other before battles for moral - Alexander the Great himself had a boyfriend. For thousands of years, slavery has been an institution - in fact, it was the dominant African tribes that sold their own captured prisoners to us, creating the first slaves of America.

We've advanced and we've digressed - that's life - but one thing that is universal is that we cannot change on a whim. The problem these days is that everyone expects society to bend to their will instantly, not considering that it takes generations to overcome what the previous generation was brought up to believe.

Take a minute: look at where we were, where we are, where we're going - how we're getting there - and how you can help. STOP WHINING at each other, FORGIVE others for their ignorance, and ALWAYS try to ENLIGHTEN someone. The fundamentals you pass onto them may be passed on to their children, setting the foundation for a better world.

[Razpooten]

05:04 PM on 09/26/2011

Hey, if you are tired, sit down; and do you want cheese with that whine?

[nohopepope2187]

05:34 PM on 09/26/2011

Yeah, break some bread with me. I see you've been doing enough "anti-religious" whining of your own in this thread.

[Ioan Lightoller]

05:15 PM on 09/26/2011

i am really getting tired of hearing this. Can YOU be evicted or fired if your sexual orientation becomes known? Just because of that?! THAT is the reality that GLBT people in many states face. Can you be sure that your spouse (if you are married) receive your Social Security after your death? Can you be sure that he or she will be able to inherit from you without your family swoopimg in, challenging the will and taking everything? THAT is the reality far too many GLBT couples have to deal with. Unless you have to deal with discrimination like this you can just scuttle the "you're whining" meme. We do not yet have the 1100+ federal rights and protections that straight couples receive upon legal marriage. However, we will not shut up until we have all the rights you do on both the state and federal level,

[nohopepope2187]

11:58 PM on 09/26/2011

When you want something to go your way, you need to win the hearts and minds of the people around you. Putting something into law will only be counterproductive if an ill willed and bigot public stands in your way. Please, enlighten me as to your plan to achieve this equality. Tell me how you immediately plan to end oppression, and I'll jump on board. My argument isn't with a minority itself - it's with the fools that sit around and mope instead of doing something (not directing that at you), and think that changes happen overnight. I'm all for equality, but as a realist, I need someone to tell me what the plan to DO about it.

[MikeXRyan]

01:43 PM on 09/26/2011

It's pretty simple - I will continue to work against any organization that openly discriminates against gay people and will funnel my support and financial dollars to those individuals, companies and organizations that treat all citizens fairly. If you can't do that then don't expect me or my husband to support your product, business or group.

[nohopepope2187]

02:43 PM on 09/26/2011

Smart corporations - the latter of whom you spoke of - count on the SPITE and ignorance of decisions like yours.

[Ioan Lightoller]

05:00 PM on 09/26/2011

Oh, so now it is spite to insist on the same rights that you enjoy? Wow. Just wow.

[notoriusbrut]

10:02 PM on 09/26/2011

it's pretty simple... you have no clue which companies discriminate against which cause. they're all paying off both sides of the aisle at all times and never too much to one side to totally alienate the other side. you and your husband have no choice unless you join a commune... and then good luck telling HP about your new life bc you'd have to buy net access from someone who gave to the Bush campaigns.

[ruburnt]

01:34 PM on 09/26/2011

I wonder what would happen to these companies if Christians decided to boycott their products.....

[BornOKtheFirstTime]

02:26 PM on 09/26/2011

Do you mean the anti-gay Christians or all Chrisitians? The number of anti-gay Christians is dramatically decreasing. For instance, 74% of American Catholics support legal recognition of same sex couples (43% for marriage, 31% for civil unions).

[Flip75]

04:40 PM on 09/26/2011

There's a flaw in your Catholic statistic - the Pope is out on a mission to get interfaith unity against same-gender marriage. So, all of those 74% of Catholics who might say they support same-gender marriages are continuing to fund anti-gay efforts by their own church. If they truly wanted to make their voices known in their church, they'd stop throwing money in the collection plate....but unfortunately, superstition holds more power over them than principles.

[Razpooten]

05:07 PM on 09/26/2011

Xactly, you have whole countries that are large percenage Catholic and are more accepting of the GLBT, to include same-sex marriage, the US is catching up.

[Douglas Campbell]

10:35 PM on 09/26/2011

They should, it's a free country, unless you're gay and want the federal govt to recognize your marriage or if you dont want to be legally discriminated against in 31 states.

[BornOKtheFirstTime]

01:24 PM on 09/26/2011

A supremacist religion like Christianity that has such a long and distinguished history of teaching the inferiority of women, blacks, gays, Jews and all other religions. What's not to like?

[BornOKtheFirstTime]

02:41 PM on 09/26/2011

Christianity and Islam are sisters under the skin and, to mix the metaphor, feed from the same trough.

[Ioan Lightoller]

05:02 PM on 09/26/2011

Same hatred and same ignorance. And fundie Christianity DOES teach their adherents that no religion in this country counts but theirs.

[Kappa51]

01:07 PM on 09/26/2011

For groups like these to call themselves churches is repulsive. They are nothing more than political groups raising money to further their own agenda. If we are allowing them tax free status while they use our tax money for the infrastructure of their so called churches. Then they should be forced to make public a yearly accounting of where their money goes exactly. And if eighty percent of it does not go to charity...the IRS should deny their tax free status.

Bet we would all be surprised at how much money goes to lobbyists. NOT!!!

[Razpooten]

05:14 PM on 09/26/2011

They should and they shouldn't - what does it take to change that?

[notoriusbrut]

10:04 PM on 09/26/2011

did you just use a 'not' joke? did we time travel to 1993??

[grimshaid]

12:53 PM on 09/26/2011

"“This is economic terrorism,” said Mike Huckabee, the former pastor, governor and presidential contender, who is a paid CGBG consultant. “To try to destroy a business because you don’t like some of the customers is, to me, unbelievably un-American,” he said in an interview. "

Funny, but this is exactly what the conservative christian groups attempt to do in order to show their disapproval of other people's lifestyle choices. Apparently yet again, they can dish it out but not take it.

[mercury613]

03:29 PM on 09/26/2011

"Apparently yet again, they can dish it out but not take it."

Yep. They are the worst kind of cowards/hypocrites.

[thereisonlyoneparty]

05:12 PM on 09/26/2011

The problem here is that the attack is on the wrong entity.

The business is doing nothing.   They have programs where they pay commissions for generating sales leads.  The company being paid those commissions is donating a portion to the charity of the buyer's choice.

The company that should be the focus is the marketer, not the retailers.

[Bridgette Angelos]

11:54 AM on 09/26/2011

I remember a time when God was used to justify just how bad inter-racial marriage would be on the citizens and the wholesome fabric of America. Once done with the gay community, who and what will be next? The most vile part of all of this is the outright using of God. Ghandi said, I like your Christ, I just don't like your christians, they are not like your christ. Guess it's ok to take God down from his perch and freely use him to benefit whatever best suits your beliefs. I'm with Ghandi, not very Christ like.

[onnozol]

12:27 PM on 09/26/2011

With some of things implied (i.e be stiality), I am imagining the world will look like Narnia in a few hundreds years. Which is seriously neat.

[truth be told again]

02:35 PM on 09/27/2011

The only people who confalte consenting adult human relationships with beastiality are so-called "Christians".

[Ioan Lightoller]

05:05 PM on 09/26/2011

Thank you for bring this point up, Bridgette. If the Dominionists/fundies get into power, they will not stop with GLBT people. They will then go after the Muslims, the Pagans, the feminists, divorced and remarried couples.

If you want to see what awaits, I suggest that you read "The Handmaid's Tale" by Margaret Atwood. Her dystopian society is disturbingly similar to the society the bigots want.

[nomadrdw]

11:53 AM on 09/26/2011

so let me see if i understand Huck's position on this. protesting hate is bad, and giving money to hate groups is good? ah, the hypocrisy of the christian right, and the fanatics in the GOP in particular.