Herman Cain, 999 Plan Come Under Fire At GOP Debate (VIDEO)

In the GOP debates, Herman Cain's most frequent topic of discussion is his 999 economic plan, which would make the corporate income tax rate 9 percent, the personal income tax rate 9 percent and the national sales tax rate 9 percent.

While he usually uses it as an applause line, Cain immediately faced tough questions about the plan from the rest of the GOP field during Tuesday night's CNN debate. The increased scrutiny from the other candidates likely reflects the fact that he has been rising in the polls and they now view him as a threat.

Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) hit Cain for wanting to add a new tax -- a national sales tax -- and raised the specter of it eventually being raised to 90 percent.

"If we give Congress a 9 percent sales tax, how long will it take a liberal president and a liberal Congress to run that up to maybe 90 percent? Who knows?" she asked. "What I do know is that we also have to be concerned about the hidden tax of the value-added tax, because at every step and stage of production, you'd be taxing that item 9 percent on the profit. That's the worry."

When asked about criticisms that his plan would raise taxes on the middle class, Cain argued that it is "revenue-neutral" and "does not raise taxes on those that are making the least."

"The reason that our plan is being attacked so much is because lobbyists, accountants, politicians -- they don't want to throw out the current tax code and put in something that's simple and fair. They want to be able to continue to manipulate the American people with a 10 million-word mess," he said.

Former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum also went after Cain, pointing to an analysis by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center that found 94 percent of Americans would see a tax hike under his plan and criticizing him with the "value-added tax" talking point.

Texas Gov. Rick Perry also criticized the plan, deploying tougher rhetoric than he's used in recent debates.

"Herman, I love you, brother, but you don't need to have a big analysis to figure this thing out," Perry said. "Go to New Hampshire where they don't have a sales tax and you're fixing to give them one. They're not interested in '9-9-9.' What they're interested in is flatter and fairer. At the end of the week, I'll be laying out a plan that clearly -- I'll bump plans with you, brother, and we'll see who has the best idea about how you get this country working again. And one of the ways right here in Nevada -- you got 8 plus percent. You want 9 cents on top of that and 9 cents on a new home or 9 percent on a new home, 9 percent on your Social Security, 9 percent more? I don't think so, Herman. It's not going to fly."

When former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney asked Cain whether his plan would replace the state sales tax, Cain said it wouldn't. Romney said he therefore agreed with Perry -- to which Cain replied that they were "mixing apples and oranges."

Comments

[John Sarappo]

03:12 PM on 10/20/2011

I like this plan but it has no chance of ever being adopted

[bansidhe54]

05:59 AM on 10/20/2011

How, then, you ask, will total fed tax revenues increase over the current system? Because we would BROADEN THE TAX BASE to include the vast underground economy, including the drug, prostitution revenues, among others--you know, all those people who’ve always insisted on being paid in cash to avoid reporting income or illegal activities to the IRS. Last figure I saw, there's a 1.5 TTTrillion per year tax revenue gain to the Fed government just from the “illegal economy“ alone, which would be realized virtually overnight. Now, that's what I call a "fair" share. FURTHER, future fed revenues would increase more, because large manufacturing companies could start building plants back home, i.e., abolishing the highest corp income tax rate in the world would increase their profitability margin so they can, once again, afford American workers who, in turn, would pay their “fair share“ of taxes. That's what Mr. Cain means when he says the overall plan would be "revenue neutral."

Ever wonder why gasoline prices always skyrocket when Dem’s are in power? Because the current FEDERAL SALES TAX ON GASOLINE calculated at the pump is a percentage (18%) of the price--not fixed “cents per gallon.” And, the Dem's know it. So, when oil prices climb, the feds get a bigger share (rake) on an already increasing cost--especially onerous for the poor who have to buy gasoline to get to work. The Demograft party han’t shown much empathy to the poor in this regard, have they?

[bansidhe54]

05:45 AM on 10/20/2011

Now, for the math of 999. It's okay, don't panic. We won't do any more than add, subtract, and multiply. If I make $20,000 (gross) and spend all of it on food, (a) I'll no longer pay the 15% payroll taxes under the current system, but will pay (b) a 9% income tax and a 9% straight (not value-added, as in Europe) sales tax. Plus, the "hidden taxes" in the goods I by today will be reduced from the 34% corporate income tax imbedded at every stage of production to 9% only at the end of production. That's because those corporate income taxes are passed along to me in the price of the goods, right? Though it's not a 25% reduction in the price of food, it's a substantial reduction, way more than the 3 percentage point loss in the 15% vs 9% + 9%. Right? Since federal taxes have always been separate from state/local taxes, the latter don't figure in a federal tax calculation. Right? Apples and oranges. The liberal think tank who issued the analysis showing a "tax increase" to 84% of Americans obviously has no accountants on its staff and don't have a clue about how manufacturers price their goods. This is simple accounting, kids. Remember, CPA's are the only professionals licensed to interpret tax law for the public--not economists. Right? Liberal economists can't follow this math that any first semester accounting student can follow. Why? Because they don't like the real answer.

[bansidhe54]

05:16 AM on 10/20/2011

I guess ya'll are the ones who dropped out of business/accounting curriculum in college and switched to psych or ecology or basketweaving? 999 is the first phase. The second phase would eliminate all income taxes and eliminate the IRS (and their $13 BBBillion/per year budget), shifting entirely to a national sales tax. Before we go into the math (eeeek!), let's look at the social consequences. Non-citizens would become fully-participating tax-paying residents or visitors and would no longer be accused of enjoying a "free ride." They would no longer have to fear revealing their presence to an abusive IRS through income tax filings. Wouldn't that be nice?

[l78lancer]

07:25 PM on 10/19/2011

Since I've lived in GA for the past several years I've noticed that when politicians and businessmen get caught redhanded in something they say "you don't understand" or "you misunderstood." That is exactly what Cain said when Romney cornered him on the sales tax. And what that means is that he has no answers and is going on the defensive. Newt does it, too. But he is a bit more sophisticated about it because of all of his years of practice in Washington. The next time a reporter or another cantidate gets one of these guys cornered, listen very carefully.

[l78lancer]

07:09 PM on 10/19/2011

Herm - they've caught on to you.

[Common Sense Kidd]

04:44 PM on 10/19/2011

The Americans for Fair Taxation, a non-partisan political advocacy group, has spent more than $3 million on several economic studies – including one by Harvard University economists. The studies determined that approximately 22% of the price of goods and services is comprised of embedded or “invisible” taxes. Those are all the taxes imposed on businesses, by the government, and the businesses pass them on to consumers. This is exactly like transportation costs that are also invisibly embedded in all prices, but reflected in prices every time the oil goes up in price. So consumers pay the taxes on the goods AND, essentially, the businesses taxes.

http://999calculator.net/

[MosesDidItBest]

02:42 PM on 10/19/2011

Why didn't they just call Cain's 999 plan stupid?

It's not mixing apples and oranges, not when people making 8 million and more get a cut of 1.6 million and the middle class gets an increase of 3000 dollars and more, the poor end up paying twice what they did before.

It's an idiotic plan from a simpleton who thinks we should electrify border fences that kill, that banks and wall street aren't to blame for the global financial collapse, the unemployed are, and that Jesus was killed by a liberal court.

The pressure is too great I can't take it anymore, I confess, I woke up one morning and thought what can I do to make the Bush administration, Eric Cantor, Paul Ryan, John Boehner and Mitch McConnell look bad? Then it occured to me, why not crash the global economy?

It wasn't easy, but I did have the help of AIG Goldman Sachs liars thieves the corrupt and the republicans so I knew I could do it. Immediately after I decided why not foreclose on homes own by republicans, that didn't work so well because the banks screwed up my plan and foreclosed regardless of political affiliation. To this day I do not trust the banks.

There it is, a confession no cop in NYC, Detroit or Chicago had to beat out of me.

Next time I take over the world with Pinky and the Brain. You are on notice.

[bypie6]

02:16 PM on 10/19/2011

999? The devil may be in the details. Just turn this "999" gimmick upside down and what do you get? 666! Oh-oh.

[joellen835]

01:58 PM on 10/19/2011

While I like Mr. Cain very much for his down to earth politics, 999 has me a little concerned. I'm already at poverty level, and another 9% off that would kill me. Would 9% sales tax automatically eliminate our 8% sales tax? Our, would I be paying 17% tax on sales items. And if the rich would be paying just 9%, that's a whole lot less than they are paying now, even with all their deductions. Maybe a graduated tax scale would be better. As your income level goes up, so would the tax percentage.

[prestonsturges]

01:57 PM on 10/19/2011

I think it's a hidden plan to reduce obesity. Those making under $15,000 per year, those people, will have to reduce the amount of food they're buying just to stay 'even' Perfect.

[ifmd91]

01:31 PM on 10/19/2011

The greenies should get behind Cain's 999 plan. It does away with taxing items that are sold as used, this would be a big boom to re-using everything possible. It will also lower the cost of all new goods because the retail end of all goods reflect the taxes paid by the companies that produce the goods. Compitition would drive down pricing, bring jobs back to the USA and increase all income across the board....if you do not think in real terms we are paying over 9% sales tax now you are mistaken.....best thing is no more IRS.

[frank day]

01:59 PM on 10/19/2011

LOL

[imax5]

01:25 PM on 10/19/2011

It is so puzzling to me that Herman Cain is even in this race with his outlandish nonsense.He hasn't a clue ,he is talking DOWN to many people!His 999 plan is three numbers and you have people say at least he has a plan!!I just wish Mitt and Rick would have not taken the heat off of Cain when he was drilled over this 999 joke to explain!Go read it online is the only thing he could come up with!When you debate and asked a specific question,ANSWER THAT QUESTION,don't give me this bs it is all online!The debate should be informative for all of us to weed out the losers!Last night was a comedy act!!!I will say this (as bad as it kills me to do so)Bachman seemed the most prepared,as well as Paul. Sorry Herman but YOU HAVE GOT TO GO!!!!!!!

[frank day]

02:00 PM on 10/19/2011

Ron Paul is the most competent candidate out of all of them by far.

Of course, they refuse to give him any real chance to explain his positions.

[imax5]

02:26 PM on 10/19/2011

Frank you know that will not happen!It is a shame.Ron Paul certainly is a very smart man,with commonsense ideas!

[xiaogermaine8]

12:34 PM on 10/19/2011

It is not the candidates it is the question that were asked by CNN and Anderson Cooper were bias and stupid. Obama for certain would to be worst on the stage and would for certain have no answers but to get on his buss, spend more, money and smoke pot with Nancy Peloci in Arizona with Harry Reed and an illegal. This man is flying with drugs.

[prestonsturges]

01:57 PM on 10/19/2011

edit?

[garyk491]

12:31 PM on 10/19/2011

Good morning to all of my friends of America. We The People will vote in 2012 to rid the country of Obama and his plans to destory our country. I will cast my vote for the Republican no matter who "he" is. We cannot allow this neighborhood thug to continue his agenda to crush our great country. Obama is a tyrant and a back door terrorist with an agenda to break laws and force his perverted ideas on America. Please vote, and restore America. Bring our troops home, secure our border with Mexico, and stop importing goods from China. STAND UP FOR AMERICA.

[l78lancer]

07:11 PM on 10/19/2011

Time for your meds.