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Mark Proulx, New Hampshire Legislator, Says 'Gun Free Zones Become Killing Zones'

Guns On Campus

First Posted: 11/15/11 12:31 PM ET Updated: 11/15/11 01:08 PM ET

A Republican state lawmaker in New Hampshire endorsed guns on college campuses on Monday, saying in an email to fellow legislators that "gun-free zones become killing zones."

State Rep. Mark Proulx (R-Manchester) came out in support of the bill, which was favored by the House criminal justice committee, in response to an email to legislators from two community college leaders urging the defeat of the legislation. The bill was introduced earlier this year after Republican takeover of the New Hampshire House of Representatives. The measure allows the state legislature to govern all firearm regulation in the state, taking away power from other private and public entities.

Wildolfo Arvelo, president of Great Bay Community College, and Nancy Pierce, the college's advisory board chairwoman, wrote that the bill should be amended to allow the state's community college system and the University of New Hampshire to set gun policies on their campuses. The letter, which was sent out by email early Monday afternoon, was addressed to state legislators representing Rockingham and Strafford Counties.

"In testimony, college and university security personnel, including a former New Hampshire police officer and a member of the New Hampshire state police/major crimes unit, emphasized the dangers in eliminating current restrictions on gun possession on a college campus," the administrators wrote. "Thousands of young people attend New Hampshire's colleges, sharing close quarters in residential, social, academic and other group activities. At this age, judgment and behaviors are still being developed and tested. To the best of our knowledge, presently in New Hampshire every private and public college bans firearms."

Arvelo and Pierce listed nine specific reasons why they wanted the college exemption, including fears that professors would not be able to do their jobs -- and possibly give low grades -- if they were worried about their students being armed. Another reason included concern that armed students may respond to situations on campus, potentially causing issues for campus security officials, and the fear that drunk students could accidentally shoot others.

Proulx "replied all" to the email with his own response late Monday afternoon, addressing the college advocates as well as the legislators on the original message.

"For people that are supposed to be so smart, you never learn from history," Proulx wrote from his state email account. "The history lesson you should have learned is that gun free zones become killing zones. These killing zones are the places that crazy people who are looking to make a name for themselves go."

Proulx continued, saying he believes that allowing guns on campus would stop violent incidents.

"Not to mention when these incidents happen there were people there that could have stopped the killing early on but could not," he wrote. "They could not because they were following some ridiculous law or rule that would not allow them to carry the weapon they wear every day."

Proulx, a first-term Republican and former Nashua fire lieutenant, said he would be supporting the bill to prevent the creation of "another killing zone."

Utah, Mississippi and Wisconsin are the only states that allow guns on college campuses. Texas and Arizona both considered similar bills earlier this year, with Arizona's legislation passing both houses of the state legislature before being vetoed by Gov. Jan Brewer (R). In Texas, the bill passed the state Senate, but stalled in the House after state Rep. Mike Vilarreal (D-San Antonio) blocked it on a procedural issue.

Wisconsin's campus gun law allows for guns to be carried on college campuses, but allows academic institutions to enact bans on carrying guns in buildings. The University of Wisconsin, for example, has enacted a ban on bringing guns into university-owned buildings. The bill was signed by Gov. Scott Walker (R) over the summer.

In September, a state appeals court in Oregon overturned the Oregon University System's regulations prohibiting guns on campuses. The ruling -- which the university system is not appealing -- does not change rules prohibiting guns from classrooms, dorm rooms and other indoor facilities.

Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli (R) issued an advisory opinion earlier this year, saying that private colleges bans on weapons are easier to enforce than public college ones as public universities are owned by the state. The Virginia Senate voted down a bill earlier this year to allow guns on campus. In January, the Virginia Supreme Court upheld a gun ban at George Mason University.

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A Republican state lawmaker in New Hampshire endorsed guns on college campuses on Monday, saying in an email to fellow legislators that "gun-free zones become killing zones." State Rep. Mark Proulx...
A Republican state lawmaker in New Hampshire endorsed guns on college campuses on Monday, saying in an email to fellow legislators that "gun-free zones become killing zones." State Rep. Mark Proulx...
 
 
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COMMUNITY PUNDITS
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omobob 01:12 PM on 11/15/2011
> A Republican state lawmaker in New Hampshire endorsed guns on college campuses on Monday, saying in an email to fellow legislators that "gun-free zones become killing zones."

More loaded weapons in the hands of untrained civilians is not the answer to gun related crimes. Untrained civilians have zero experience in the use of deadly force. Untrained civilians do  Read More...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DaveNYC
01:39 PM on 11/16/2011
While we pretend to be above it, the reality is that labels and characterizations are often controlling. Whoever is successful in framing the issue wins.

"Gun free zone" sounds like a place where there are no guns. You know, if you want guns, you can just go to a diffderent zone. Of course, how does the person erecting the "gun free zone" sign know there are no guns there? How does that person know that nobody is ever going to bring a gun in there in the future? Once in high school someone (it's a mystery) took a "gun free zone" from the high school and put it up at one of my friend's houses, which was (incidentally) filled with guns.

"Victim disarmament zone" -- accurate? Who is in favor of victim disarmament zones?

"Killing zone" -- accurate? Who is in favor of killing zones?

All these labels dance around a factor that people often don't discuss -- America is not a gun free zone. There are more people than guns. It would literally be more accurate to call Ameica a people free zone. It is not a matter of simply deciding whether guns will or will not be present in any particular area. Some people are going to break the law. The question should be framed in terms of what approach presents the best net gains.
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molonlabe
I rarely go full Wookie but own a whole suit.
11:02 AM on 11/16/2011
Since the fall semester of 2006, state law has allowed licensed individual­s to carry concealed handguns on the campuses of the nine degree-off­ering public colleges (20 campuses) and one public technical college (10 campuses) in Utah. Concealed carry has been allowed at Colorado State University (Fort Collins, CO) since 2003 and at Blue Ridge Community College (Weyers Cave, VA) since 1995. After allowing concealed carry on campus for a combined total of one hundred semesters, none of these twelve schools has seen a single resulting incident of gun violence (including threats and suicides), a single gun accident, or a single gun theft."

http://con­cealedcamp­us.org/com­mon_argume­nts.php


These are facts even the heftiest Joyce Foundation grant can't refute.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DaveNYC
01:42 PM on 11/16/2011
I went to college at one of the private colleges in Utah that does not allow students to carry concealed guns. Having said that, I often had guns in my car, dorm room, and in the gun safe in the commons area. This was 15 years ago.

This whole debate is a little daft. This is America and people have been taking their guns with them to college as long as they have been going to college. And the sky has not fallen.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Gregg Dudash
10:47 AM on 11/16/2011
If you silly liberals don't like the Second Amendment, why don't you leave? Go to Canada.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Conlaw Bloganon
Ron Paul 2012!
10:50 AM on 11/16/2011
Better yet, they should go to the UK, which almost completely prohibits individual firearm ownership. But they probably won't want to do that, because the UK has 4x as much violent crime as the US. So much for the theory that fewer guns = less crime, eh?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Gregg Dudash
10:58 AM on 11/16/2011
Liberals never let facts get in the way of their silly notions.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DaveNYC
01:44 PM on 11/16/2011
Just remember, while it may be true that "silly" liberals don't like the Second Amendment, there are certainly a great many liberal people out there who support the right to keep and bear arms.
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01:58 PM on 11/16/2011
Agreed. I believe it was a liberal who employed the terminology "foolish liberal".

"Foolish liberals who are trying to read the Second Amendment out of the Constitution by claiming it's not an individual right or that it's too much of a public safety hazard don't see the danger in the big picture. They're courting disaster by encouraging others to use the same means to eliminate portions of the Constitution they don't like." Alan Dershowitz
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Gregg Dudash
06:48 PM on 11/16/2011
If they support the Constitution, then, by definition, THOSE people are NOT liberals.
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Grumpy Man
Disappointed idealist
09:24 AM on 11/16/2011
I'm left to wonder how many would-be killers who wanted to perpetrate a killing at a school thought twice about carrying out their attack because they might violate the laws prohibiting the possession of firearms on campus.

Let's see... they're planning murder(s) but discarded their plans because of a law that says...

Oh never mind.

Try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7pGt_O1uM8
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K August
Research alecexposed
04:34 AM on 11/16/2011
It sounds like the GOP needs to fill some more bunks for their friends in the private prison business.

Schools are for learning, not for carrying guns.
Will High Schools be next?
06:50 AM on 11/16/2011
... it doesn't matter where you go.... responsible adults should always have the right to defend themselves from idiots ......
08:40 AM on 11/16/2011
The responsible adults are the ones who don't carry efficient weapons (while having the training to use them to deadly effect) into a place of learning.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Conlaw Bloganon
Ron Paul 2012!
09:02 AM on 11/16/2011
You are incoherent.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
StewII
New England
03:42 AM on 11/16/2011
One town in NH celebrates "Glock-toberfest"!
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
06:00 AM on 11/16/2011
Look at the number of fans you have, Stewll, before someone else fans you and ends the magic. Faved for "Glock-toberfest" comment. I wish Glock would make a clean break between their law enforcement division and their civilian arms division. In fact I'd go so far as to say that handgun manufacturers should have three divisions, law enforcement, target & competition and concealed carry & home defense. While I'm at it I wish Glock would come out with a
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
06:04 AM on 11/16/2011
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
hagagaga
My comments are funnier than yours.
08:36 AM on 11/16/2011
I'm the 358th one, who's "ending the magic."
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
hagagaga
My comments are funnier than yours.
08:36 AM on 11/16/2011
I'm sorry to prevent you from having 357 fans. I don't care what your views are, I just think Glocktoberfest is awesome enough to deserve a fan and a favorite.
03:35 AM on 11/16/2011
Every legislator that believes that every college student can be armed should first have to spend a full week of classes with incoming freshman. After that week, I doubt that anybody would trust EVERY student with a loaded gun.
I'm a recent graduate (May 2007) and I teach the high school students headed to college. I barely trust some of them with a ball point pen let alone a loaded gun. Roughly 55% of students don't leave with a college degree and irresponsible use of alcohol and illegal drugs is rampant. (See the article on alcohol use through tampons) The local school officials that work with many irresponsible kids recognize this far better than Rep. Proulx's idealism. I admit that most campus police forces are a complete joke, but vigilantism from unstable students will only make the problem worse.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
07:55 AM on 11/16/2011
It seems that attitudes towards concealed carry may be changing nationwide. "Iwatch Center For Public Integrity" has a long story which includes the following excerpt: Bob Jauch has earned his “F” grade from the National Rifle Association. The Democratic Wisconsin state senator from Poplar has long fought the gun lobby’s efforts to let state residents carry concealed weapons. . . . But Jauch ended up voting for the final bill anyway. “I think the mood of the public has changed,” Jauch explained in a letter to constituents. "And . . . there is no evidence that concealed carry in other states has endangered the public or led to a rampant misuse of firearms." http://www.iwatchnews.org/2011/11/15/7397/long-wait-yields-expansive-new-freedoms-wisconsin
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Grumpy Man
Disappointed idealist
08:53 AM on 11/16/2011
To begin with, an applicant for a concealed carry permit must be twenty one years old. That regulation alone would disqualify a very notable percentage of the young people you mentioned. Generally speaking, only Juniors and above would be able to become eligible. Generally speaking, Juniors and above are more responsible than Freshmen or Sophomores.

At universities where concealed carry has been allowed for several years, no problems have been reported.

There is zero evidence available to promote the belief that "every" student would be armed. Typically, among various populations, a mere 1-3% of each group elects to apply for a concealed weapons permit.

On one side of the debate is fear and conjecture. On the other side is a notable track record of proven responsibility. The available evidence says...

http://www.davekopel.com/2a/lawrev/shallissue.htm
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
StewII
New England
03:33 AM on 11/16/2011
Recently a NH state rep was arrested for DUI while packing
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
06:06 AM on 11/16/2011
No, that was in Tennessee, and the gun was in the console of his vehicle, not on his person.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
StewII
New England
03:31 AM on 11/16/2011
A previous NH Governor petitioned the federal government for nuclear arms to control the college campuses.
Dogmudgeon
Saepe in Errore, Nunquam in Dubito
02:09 AM on 11/16/2011
The Fantasy: "An armed society is a polite society."

The Reality: Somalia.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Conlaw Bloganon
Ron Paul 2012!
08:46 AM on 11/16/2011
The fantasy: If we disarm

The reality: The UK has 4x as much violent crime per capita as the US, and is by far THE most violent industrialized nation. Furthermore, their murder rates have been wholly unaffected by their draconian restrictions on individual gun ownership.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Conlaw Bloganon
Ron Paul 2012!
08:46 AM on 11/16/2011
The fantasy: If we disarm the populace, that will somehow make everyone safer?

The reality: The UK has 4x as much violent crime per capita as the US, and is by far THE most violent industrial­ized nation. Furthermor­e, their murder rates have been wholly unaffected by their draconian restrictio­ns on individual gun ownership.

http://www­.dailymail­.co.uk/new­s/article-­1196941/Th­e-violent-­country-Eu­rope-Brita­in-worse-S­outh-Afric­a-U-S.html
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
bondcliff
12:48 AM on 11/16/2011
Let's see? College kids away from home for first time? Heavy alcohol and drug use? High academic pressure? Depression? Sexual tension? Just add guns to the mix? I am a licensed Gun owner and I think this idea is absolutely insane. Any gun owner who thinks alcohol and guns mix should have his head examined. Allowing students to carry weapons on campus will not make things safer, they will make for lots more candlelight vigils.
01:40 AM on 11/16/2011
I open carry every day. I don't do it drunk. Responsible gun owners don't. This is true, even if they are in college.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Conlaw Bloganon
Ron Paul 2012!
08:53 AM on 11/16/2011
Three things. First, in America, there is no such thing as a "licensed" gun owner, because no license is required to -own- a gun.

Secondly, the average CCW permit-holder is 60 years old. Based on the age distributions that I have found online, literally 99% of the people affected by the college "gun free zone" are older graduate students, faculty, staff, and parents. As for the handful of 21-year-old permit-holders who have the clean record, the discipline, the money, the training, the weapon, and the permit to carry concealed? They are already carrying at the mall, at the movie theater, and everywhere else that they are legally permitted to do so, and with no ill effects.

Thirdly, last year Virginia joined about a dozen other states that extended the right to bear arms into bars and restaurants that serve alcohol, with certain limitations. The gun prohibitionists screamed that bar fights would turn into shooting rampages, and gun crimes would go way up. In reality, as with every other jurisdiction, when you allow self defense, crime WENT DOWN. Just something to keep in mind before you deprive me of my rights.
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=334117
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
HamburgerTime
Real eyes, realize, real lies.
12:30 AM on 11/16/2011
Ah, the Bronson theory. The old argument that guns should be everywhere because deep down all citizens have an inner fearless vigilante marksman, just waiting to be unleashed on a gun-wielding criminal.
01:42 AM on 11/16/2011
Nope ... because if anybody in the room might be armed, the criminals won't do it there. There *is* a reason that *all* of the massacres take place in "Gun Free Zones". Even the shopping mall ones have been gun free shopping malls. Here in New Hampshire, you can carry a gun in the mall, but we've never had a shooting at one. Maybe secondary and tertiary effects should be considered as well, if we're going to make this decision like adults, eh?
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molonlabe
I rarely go full Wookie but own a whole suit.
10:58 AM on 11/16/2011
Can you raise your hand? I'm having difficulty seeing you in that field of strawmen you're standing in.
12:18 AM on 11/16/2011
How else are we going to defend ourselves form zombies?
03:37 AM on 11/16/2011
Start with spell-check
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
06:09 AM on 11/16/2011
Hornady has ya covered on that one. http://www.hornady.com/ammunition/zombiemax
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
hagagaga
My comments are funnier than yours.
08:39 AM on 11/16/2011
If you're close enough to be using .380, 9mm, .40, or .45 on a zombie horde, you're doing something wrong.
08:32 PM on 11/17/2011
Yes! I actually saw an ad for these.
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Dahveed1
Rational discussion is the basis of a democracy.
11:44 PM on 11/15/2011
"Arvelo and Pierce listed nine specific reasons why they wanted the college exemption, including fears that professors would not be able to do their jobs -- and possibly give low grades -- if they were worried about their students being armed. Another reason included concern that armed students may respond to situations on campus, potentially causing issues for campus security officials, and the fear that drunk students could accidentally shoot others."

This is a load of manure. Perhaps you shouldn't admit students to your campus with violent tendencies. Regardless, if students are willing to use violence on a teacher, then they probably are going to carry a weapon on campus regardless of the law. 2nd, all CHL permit holders will lower their weapons if the police order it - even campus cops. Lastly, drunk students (who can legally carry off campus) do not cause problems there, why would they cause problems on campus, where alcohol isn't allowed?

These two moron's should be fired. If this is the best these two geniuses could come up with, they have NO business training monkeys, much less teaching adults in an college.
08:50 AM on 11/16/2011
Do you honestly think that having a loaded gun in the hands of a hormonally-unstable teenager or 20-year-old would allow any teacher or professor to feel comfortable? I absolutely agree with the gentlemen listed above: professors need to be completely free to give students the grades they earn by their academic merits, NOT any other consideration (which includes minority status, privileged status, and ARMED status). To say otherwise is just preposterous.

I also fully agree with their concerns regarding students responding to campus incidents. Take a look on a college campus: if something remotely interesting is happening, I will all but guarantee you that there is a large crowd of people standing around watching. Let's add an armed 20-year-old to the mix! -_-

Finally, do you really believe that the firearm screening process is as efficient as it is touted to be? Just in my own personal observations I know of at least two people who are mentally unstable enough to potentially be committed to a mental institution but WERE STILL ABLE TO LEGALLY PURCHASE A HANDGUN. That's not even to mention the people who have no regard for rules or anyone else's safety. Most people are perfectly capable of following the rules to get what they want, but once they HAVE the handgun, what's to stop them from disobeying ever single one? Nothing, that's what. Guns in the hands of students cause more problems than they solve.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
SouPro
Southern. Progressive.
11:07 AM on 11/16/2011
21. One must be 21 to possess a handgun and apply for a carry license.

"professors need to be completely free to give students the grades they earn by their academic merits"

No state that currently allows student carry has seen a change in grades because of concealed carry on campus.

"I will all but guarantee you that there is a large crowd of people standing around watching."

Danger causes fleeing. Who stands around when someone is shooting?

"I know of at least two people who..."

I know five people breed and raise unicorns and invisible dragons.

"Most people are perfectly capable of following the rules to get what they want, but once they HAVE the handgun, what's to stop them from disobeying ever single one? Nothing"

Firearm manufacturers employ wizards that imbue guns with lawlessness. Actually, it's an inanimate object. There are 300 million in the United States, and a fraction of a percent of those will ever be used in a crime. Clearly, firearms are not the cause of illegal behavior.
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molonlabe
I rarely go full Wookie but own a whole suit.
11:08 AM on 11/16/2011
You lost everyone in your first sentence. Teens and 20 year olds are prohibited from carrying handguns due to age restrictions.

Furthermore:

Since the fall semester of 2006, state law has allowed licensed individual­s to carry concealed handguns on the campuses of the nine degree-off­ering public colleges (20 campuses) and one public technical college (10 campuses) in Utah. Concealed carry has been allowed at Colorado State University (Fort Collins, CO) since 2003 and at Blue Ridge Community College (Weyers Cave, VA) since 1995. After allowing concealed carry on campus for a combined total of one hundred semesters, none of these twelve schools has seen a single resulting incident of gun violence (including threats and suicides), a single gun accident, or a single gun theft."

http://con­cealedcamp­us.org/com­mon_argume­nts.php


Facts still trump emotionalism and hypotheticals.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
hagagaga
My comments are funnier than yours.
10:53 PM on 11/15/2011
Those commenters on the payroll of the Joyce Foundation have in the past accused me of supporting gun violence. They're right: if you are trying to rob somebody, rape somebody, kill somebody, or something like that, I fully support somebody else's right to shoot you.