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Liberty University Reverses Campus Gun Ban

Gun

Posted: 11/21/11 02:47 PM ET

WASHINGTON -- At Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va., students cannot watch R-rated movies, participate in unauthorized protests, attend a dance or use profane language. Soon, however, they will be allowed to carry a concealed gun on campus.

Last week, Liberty's Board of Trustees announced its decision to reverse the school's longstanding weapons ban. Students, faculty and staff with a Virgina concealed carry permit will be able to keep their guns in their car and carry them on campus grounds. Some faculty and staff will also be granted permission to bring firearms into university buildings.

Liberty, which was founded in 1971 by the late, famed televangelist Jerry Falwell, has some of the strictest campus policies in the nation. Students at the evangelical Christian college must agree to a code of conduct, known as "The Liberty Way," which outlines appropriate behavior on campus.

Previously, the unauthorized possession of weapons on campus was designated as a maximum campus offense. Violators faced a $500 fine, 30 hours of community service, and possible expulsion. Offenses at the same punishment level include involvement in witchcraft, consumption of alcoholic beverages and abortion.

The university's board touted the new policy as a way to keep students safe on campus, stating that it could help prevent incidents like the 2007 shooting at Virgina Tech University that left 33 students dead.

"It adds to the security and safety of the campus and it's a good thing," university chancellor Jerry Falwell Jr. said last week. "If something -- God forbid -- ever happened like what happened at Virginia Tech, there would be more than just our police officers who would be able to deal with it."

Liberty's announcement may be the beginning of a trend towards more lenient gun policies in Virginia universities. In July, Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli issued an advisory opinion that stated that universities must pass a state regulation, as opposed to a simple school policy, in order to legally bar students from bringing guns on campus. Cuccinelli's opinion has yet to be tested by courts, but could have deep implications for campus gun policies in the future.

Many gun control advocates fear that allowing students to carry concealed weapons would make campuses markedly less safe.

"Any time you have loaded guns carried on campus, it could be a very dangerous situation," Brian Malte, director of mobilization at the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said.

Malte pointed out that law enforcement officials go through continuous training to learn when and when not to shoot, while in Virginia, concealed carry permit holders only complete a one-time firearms training course.

"With Virginia's lax standards for getting a concealed carry permit, expecting someone on campus in a very tense situation to make the right decision is a fallacy," he said.

Liberty University did not return a request for comment.

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WASHINGTON -- At Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va., students cannot watch R-rated movies, participate in unauthorized protests, attend a dance or use profane language. Soon, however, they will be a...
WASHINGTON -- At Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va., students cannot watch R-rated movies, participate in unauthorized protests, attend a dance or use profane language. Soon, however, they will be a...
 
 
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COMMUNITY PUNDITS
realpolitic 03:46 PM on 11/25/2011
Abstract. "A random sample of more than 10,000 undergraduate students, selected from 119 4-year colleges, answered a mailed questionnaire about gun possession and gun threats. Approximately 4.3% of the students reported that they had a working firearm at college, and 1.6% of them have been threatened with a gun while at school. Students are more likely to have a firearm at college and to be threatened with  Read More...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Pete Gerasia
If you can't think logically, don't talk to me.
10:39 AM on 01/06/2012
Statistics from FL http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.html. This shows that in 24 years only .008% of all concealed carry owners have had their license revoked because of improper firearm use; 168 in 2,031,106. So the point that pessimists to this rule make that concealed carry owners do not understand proper use is void. I would bet that even cops have a higher rate of improper discharge of firearms.
10:44 AM on 01/06/2012
Sorry this is the correct link http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.html
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
realpolitic
Proud member of the reality-based community!
03:46 PM on 11/25/2011
Abstract. "A random sample of more than 10,000 undergraduate students, selected from 119 4-year colleges, answered a mailed questionnaire about gun possession and gun threats. Approximately 4.3% of the students reported that they had a working firearm at college, and 1.6% of them have been threatened with a gun while at school. Students are more likely to have a firearm at college and to be threatened with a gun while at college if they are male, live off campus, binge drink, engage in risky and aggressive behavior after drinking, and attend institutions in regions of the United States where household firearm prevalence is high. Having a firearm for protection is also strongly associated with being threatened with a gun while at college. Students who reported having firearms at college disproportionately reported that they engaged in behaviors that put themselves and others at risk for injury." http://www.riskandinsurance.com/userpdfs/HarvardGunStudy.pdf
08:03 PM on 11/25/2011
Your point? According to the Department of Education, a violent crime occurs somewhere on a Florida campus on average 6 out of every 7 days. Violent crime is defined as murder, rape, armed robbery, and assault. Would you want your son or daughter to be the next victim?
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
realpolitic
Proud member of the reality-based community!
09:13 PM on 11/25/2011
My point is that: Students are more likely to have a firearm at college and to be threatened with a gun while at college if they are male, live off campus, binge drink, engage in risky and aggressive behavior after drinking, and attend institutions in regions of the United States where household firearm prevalence is high. Having a firearm for protection is also strongly associated with being threatened with a gun while at college. Students who reported having firearms at college disproportionately reported that they engaged in behaviors that put themselves and others at risk for injury." http://www.riskandinsurance.com/userpdfs
08:08 PM on 11/25/2011
Oh, and any survey associated with David Hemenway is suspect. He is a noted anti-gun researcher and does not submit his sampling data for peer review.

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=196&issue=011
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
realpolitic
Proud member of the reality-based community!
09:16 PM on 11/25/2011
This Harvard survey is peer reviewed. It is characteristic of the gun crowd to deny objective information.
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gnobie01
THE SKY IS NOT MY LIMIT BUT RATHER MY PLAYGROUND
01:12 AM on 11/25/2011
FOR THOSE WHO FEEL THAT A GUN IS USELESS FOR DEFENSE..http://www.americandomainwebs.com/InsuranceServices/defengun.htm
the rest of us understand
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Fang1944
05:59 PM on 11/24/2011
"At Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va., students cannot watch R-rated movies, participate in unauthorized protests, attend a dance or use profane language. Soon, however, they will be allowed to carry a concealed gun on campus."

The gun is so that you can kill yourself when you can't stand the place anymore.
11:33 AM on 11/25/2011
Are all your comments limited to rhetorical fluff?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Fang1944
10:35 AM on 11/24/2011
All these people who think that they need a gun to leave the house--do they also carry a snakebite kit everywhere? Do they keep a cooler full of blood plasma in the trunk of the car? Do they take precautions against a meteor strike?

Historical note: When Ben Franklin introduced the lightning to the French court, some ladies started wearing hats with lightning rods on top; they had chains hanging down to the ground so that they actually were grounded. After a little while, they decided that it was stupid to be that much afraid of lightning. Get it?
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
RevJimIII
Grin and Barret...
10:50 AM on 11/24/2011
Living in States where snakes are quite abundant, yes, there is a snakebite kit in the first aid kit of every vehicle I own.. I don't have plasma, but do have the supplies I need to staunch the flow until either a paramedic shows up or I/we can get the injured person to a proper facility. 

Why do you have a problem with people who are prepared?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Fang1944
10:26 AM on 11/25/2011
A college campus would not be analogous to a an area with abundant snakes. The U of VA's Youth Violence Project calculates that the average US campus can expect a homicide every 265 years.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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11:06 AM on 11/24/2011
You are more likely to be killed by a bolt of lightning than by a licensed CCW holder. What are you afraid of?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Fang1944
05:57 PM on 11/24/2011
I'm not particularly afraid of anything. I wonder why some people have such an exaggerated fear of crime that they think they need a gun to go about their daily business. Apparently, they go through life thinking the boogerman is after them.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
crablover
12:21 AM on 11/24/2011
There's no more lethal mix than guns and sexually-repressed males.
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gnobie01
THE SKY IS NOT MY LIMIT BUT RATHER MY PLAYGROUND
01:03 AM on 11/24/2011
NEVER TRIED THAT...I LIKE WHISKEY SOURS MYSELF...HOW'S IT MADE?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Carla Rae H
If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
10:36 PM on 11/25/2011
LOL!!
04:09 PM on 11/24/2011
More rhetoric from a gun-hater, completely devoid of fact.
11:45 AM on 11/23/2011
While Liberty University reverses the ban on guns, it will still maintain its ban on books:)
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
hagagaga
You can't take the sky from me.
10:41 AM on 11/23/2011
Just think of how much damage could have been averted if somebody was able to return fire at Virginia Tech.

The presence of another shooter changes the dynamic drastically. Instead of being able to move in close and shoot carefully-aimed shots, the shooter must also avoid return fire. That was what happened at Columbine, Luby's, Virginia Tech, and Tucson due to the lack of return fire.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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10:46 AM on 11/23/2011
Um, yeah. As an instructor, I'd feel lots safer if the students I fail are all locked and loaded. *eye roll*
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
hagagaga
You can't take the sky from me.
11:02 AM on 11/23/2011
There's a flaw in your logic: if they fail their CCW class, they aren't allowed to carry concealed.
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Grumpy Man
Disappointed idealist
02:37 PM on 11/23/2011
As an instructor one might assume you're familiar with doing at least some elemental level of research.

Researching the track record of persons who are permitted to carry a concealed weapon would indicate they are among the most law abiding of citizens. Even using the numbers from the VPC, which are very likely to be inflated, you'd see that concealed carriers are responsible for less than 4/10ths of 1% of the murders committed in the U.S.

Meanwhile, I'm left to wonder why you think a lack of a permit would stop someone who plans to commit murder.

It would appear that on this issue, you're allowing emotion to over-ride logic.

Have a safe day.
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farmilyman
everything is illusion
07:22 AM on 11/23/2011
Christian University advocating gun toting..........yikes.
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Grumpy Man
Disappointed idealist
02:44 PM on 11/23/2011
On many issues I'm a self-described "liberal." Sometimes other "liberals" embarrass me.

If liberalism promotes ideals such as acceptance and tolerance for the lifestyles of others, why do "liberals" respond to any topic that combines God and guns with comments like "yikes."

It would seem that sometimes, when the rubber meets the road, some "liberals" hydroplane.

I've often opined that gay marriage would neither break my leg nor pick my pocket and that I therefore have no logical reason to oppose it. Equally, I don't care if a private university wants to allow their students to carry concealed weapons. Statistically there is no evidence that indicates such a practice should be banned and it doesn't cost me a nickel. It's simply not my business.

Yikes? Why?
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farmilyman
everything is illusion
02:28 AM on 11/24/2011
Because they will feel than anything is justified "in the name of God"
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
03:57 PM on 11/23/2011
Sarah Brady calls the reversal "common sense gun control."
08:13 PM on 11/22/2011
Nine public universities in Utah, Colorado State University, and Blue Ridge Community College in Virginia allow licensed students and faculty to carry firearms on their campuses. Of course, there have been no shooting tragedies by licensed permit carry holders on those campuses as predicted by the gun ban zealots.

At the Appalachian State Law School a gunman entered the school and opened fire. Two law students ran to their cars and retrieved their rifles. They reentered the school, confronted the gunman, and held him at gunpoint until police arrived. The two law students had no difficulty identifying the attacker, and the police had no difficulty in recognizing that the two students with the rifles were holding the attacker at bay.

Campus carry deters crime and saves lives.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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schotts
Strength and Honor
12:40 AM on 11/23/2011
I'm proud to be a CSU Ram!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Rodger leMonde
I call them as I see them.
08:00 PM on 11/22/2011
The question remains, on a campus dedicated the Christianity so fervently, what Christian justification is there? Who needs to damn their eternal soul, who is so heinous that they need to be shot? There is one active on these pages that styles himself "Berretaskeeper" an defender of Liberty University. Has he forsworn being his brothers keeper? I have pointed out the inconsistencies and he feels that I should defend the mention of inconsistency in the Liberty community. Having suggested that they consult with a man of the cloth to explain commonly known factors relating to in consistencies he wants me to be his pastor and guide him in his faith assuming that I have stated things that have never been at issue in Christianity.
08:30 PM on 11/22/2011
“…who is so heinous that they need to be shot?”
It is not a question of a person being so heinous that they must be shot. The Christian Bible states “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3 v.23) Do you believe that law enforcement officers carry so they can shoot people they believe to be heinous?

If a person is physically attacked he or she has a legal and natural right to defend his or her self.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Rodger leMonde
I call them as I see them.
08:48 PM on 11/22/2011
Then the question remains, in this company of good Christians, what is the need? Sinners should surely be allowed a life time to atone for their sins, The element of physically violent should be much lower on a campus dedicated to the love of God. TEN COMMANDMENTS
Thou shalt not kill, four unequivocal words. If you can find one statement of Christ that counters that, you are either a consummate biblical scholar, or a consummate liar. Christians have been the greatest enemies of Christianity that could be devised.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and retired military combat vet
10:52 PM on 11/22/2011
"who is so heinous that they need to be shot?"

A person who is attempting to murder or seriously injure another person in order to commit a crime.
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gnobie01
THE SKY IS NOT MY LIMIT BUT RATHER MY PLAYGROUND
04:50 PM on 11/22/2011
Once again the same old argument by handgun control.......MORE GUN LESS SAFE...BULL..ONY!!!
They said that about florida when they passed the concealed carry laws down there...and what do you know...the violent crime dropped!....guess it was the criminals afraid of being in trouble with the law???...nah...bet it was the criminal finally afraid of their victim!!!..JOIN NRA AT...NRA.COM...

SEND A MESSAGE TO THE BRADY BUNCH THAT YOU ARE TIRED OF BEING VICTIMISED BY CRIMINALS THAT DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE COURTS
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Iconcoclast
complicated laws are opportunities for scoundrels
04:38 PM on 11/22/2011
What make is that pistol? I don't recognize the logo or the thumb-safety (assuming that the flange near the hammer is a thumb safety, of course).
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gnobie01
THE SKY IS NOT MY LIMIT BUT RATHER MY PLAYGROUND
04:51 PM on 11/22/2011
THE PISTOL IS A BERETTA
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
crablover
12:24 AM on 11/24/2011
That's an pretty expensive piece for a student to afford.
Maybe Liberty can buy them in large lots and distribute them at a discount.

Did you know that most of the students at Liberty were home schooled? Nothing like mixing socially handicapped individuals and loaded weapons.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and retired military combat vet
06:57 PM on 11/22/2011
http://www.berettausa.com/shop-by-department/firearms/handguns/

And yes, that is a safety.
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Iconcoclast
complicated laws are opportunities for scoundrels
08:09 PM on 11/22/2011
Interesting, a safety and decocker combined. It must take training to get used to it.
11:55 PM on 11/23/2011
Please, we don't care about a gun fetish.
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Iconcoclast
complicated laws are opportunities for scoundrels
04:13 PM on 11/22/2011
"Many gun control advocates fear that allowing students to carry concealed weapons would make campuses markedly less safe."

Well then this will prove to be a useful test of the policy. Let's see if violence numbers drop, stay the same, or increase. I think the violence statistics will remain the same, but we will see after a few years what actually happens.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Conlaw Bloganon
Ron Paul 2012!
04:16 PM on 11/22/2011
Even in the worst case - if nothing happens, then we should still allow the right to carry on other college campuses, because this is meant to be a nation that errs on the side of too much freedom, not too little.
05:48 PM on 11/22/2011
So I guess you're saying the OWSers can have THEIR unbound freedom while trampling on the rights of the people who OBEY the rules.Not much to decide there.People can protest without the things the OWSers have been doing.
12:31 AM on 11/30/2011
An environment where a lot of people I don't know are running around with concealed weapons? --Doesn't feel like "freedom" to me.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Fang1944
09:59 PM on 11/22/2011
Currently, a college campus is one of the safest places a person can be. The amount of violence on campuses from K-grad school is tiny and shrinking.

So Liberty says, "Let's bring guns into the picture and just see if there are more deaths."

Really smart.
11:06 PM on 11/22/2011
Are you attempting to imply that one may only take precautions to defend their life in places where it is likely that one would be attacked? The flaw in that logic is there is but one life. You cannot be wrong and try it again. Once you are dead, it is over. Remember that in any violent crime scenario, the victim rarely, if ever, gets to choose the time and place he is attacked.