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Senate Votes To Let Military Detain Americans Indefinitely, White House Threatens Veto

Military Detention

First Posted: 11/29/11 06:35 PM ET Updated: 11/30/11 12:05 AM ET

WASHINGTON -- The Senate voted Tuesday to keep a controversial provision to let the military detain terrorism suspects on U.S. soil and hold them indefinitely without trial -- prompting White House officials to reissue a veto threat.

The measure, part of the massive National Defense Authorization Act, was also opposed by civil libertarians on the left and right. But 16 Democrats and an independent joined with Republicans to defeat an amendment by Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.) that would have killed the provision, voting it down with 61 against, and 37 for it.

"I'm very, very, concerned about having U.S. citizens sent to Guantanamo Bay for indefinite detention," said Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), one of the Senate's most conservative members.

Paul's top complaint is that a terrorism suspect would get just one hearing where the military could assert that the person is a suspected terrorist -- and then they could be locked up for life, without ever formally being charged. The only safety valve is a waiver from the secretary of defense.

"It's not enough just to be alleged to be a terrorist," Paul said, echoing the views of the American Civil Liberties Union. "That's part of what due process is -- deciding, are you a terrorist? I think it's important that we not allow U.S. citizens to be taken."

Democrats who were also concerned about liberties compared the military policing of Americans to the detention of Americans in internment camps during World War II.

"Congress is essentially authorizing the indefinite imprisonment of American citizens, without charge," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), who offered another amendment -- which has not yet gotten a vote -- that she said would correct the problem. "We are not a nation that locks up its citizens without charge."

Backers of military detention of Americans -- a measure crafted by Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) -- came out swinging against Udall's amendment on the Senate floor earlier Tuesday.

"The enemy is all over the world. Here at home. And when people take up arms against the United States and [are] captured within the United States, why should we not be able to use our military and intelligence community to question that person as to what they know about enemy activity?" Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said.

"They should not be read their Miranda Rights. They should not be given a lawyer," Graham said. "They should be held humanely in military custody and interrogated about why they joined al Qaeda and what they were going to do to all of us."

In criticizing the measure, White House officials said that it would cause confusion and interfere with a counterterrorism effort that has been remarkably successful since Sept. 11, 2001 -- across two administrations.

"It is likely that implementing such procedures would inject significant confusion into counterterrorism operations," the White House argued in a Nov. 17 statement.

Further, it contended:

This unnecessary, untested, and legally controversial restriction of the President's authority to defend the Nation from terrorist threats would tie the hands of our intelligence and law enforcement professionals. Moreover, applying this military custody requirement to individuals inside the United States, as some Members of Congress have suggested is their intention, would raise serious and unsettled legal questions and would be inconsistent with the fundamental American principle that our military does not patrol our streets. We have spent ten years since September 11, 2001, breaking down the walls between intelligence, military, and law enforcement professionals; Congress should not now rebuild those walls and unnecessarily make the job of preventing terrorist attacks more difficult.

A White House official said the administration stands by the veto threat. "We take this very, very seriously," the official said.

Both FBI Director Robert Mueller and Director of National Intelligence James Clapper backed up the White House with letters sent to congressional leaders. Clapper echoed the charge that the measure creates uncertainty and added that it could prevent intelligence operatives from getting critical information from suspects.

And although the measure allows the secretary of defense to waive it, both Mueller and Clapper said that could prove unworkable in the real world.

Mueller added that it could even stop the FBI from investigating individuals who fall under the definitions of suspected terrorist in the measure.

The 2012 National Defense Authorization Act would authorize defense spending on military personnel, weapons and war. The first draft of the bill won support from both parties in Congress in October, passing out of the Senate Armed Services Committee with just Udall dissenting. A similar House bill allocating $690 billion for the Pentagon passed in May, without the controversial measure. It could be changed when the differing versions are merged, if Congress desires.

The detention provision whipped up a furor in both parties, with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) having already text delayed the vote over it.

The final vote showed bizarre fractures among Democrats, erasing the usual barriers between conservatives and liberals. The 16 who voted for the harsh detainee rules were Sens. Bob Casey (Pa.), Kent Conrad (N.D.), Kay Hagan (N.C.), Daniel Inouye (Hawaii), Herb Kohl (Wis.), Mary Landrieu (La.), Carl Levin (Mich.), Joe Manchin (W. Va.), Clair McCaskill (Mo.), Robert Menendez (N.J.), Ben Nelson (Neb.), Mark Pryor (Ark.), Jack Reed (R.I.), Jeanne Shaheen (N.H.), Debbie Stabenow (Mich.) and Sheldon Whitehouse (R.I.). National defense hawk and independent Sen. Joe Lieberman (Conn.) also voted in favor of the tougher language.

"It's one of those things where ... it's bipartisan on both sides. Levin's not on the same page as the White House. We've got our own internal differences; Paul and Kirk don't agree with Graham," said a senior GOP aide just before the vote. "Everybody's trying to do the right thing. There's just a difference of opinion."

Even though Paul was joined only by Sen. Mark Kirk (R-Ill.) on his side of the aisle, the issue was contentious at the Republicans' weekly caucus lunch.

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) emerged from the meeting -- where former Vice President Dick Cheney was in attendance -- saying his colleagues had "a spirited discussion" about Udall's amendment, and predicted nearly all Republicans would oppose the amendment, as they did.

Update 10:30 p.m.

Sen. Menendez later sought, and was granted, unanimous consent from the Senate to change his vote. He is now recorded as supporting the Udall amendment, with the final tally changed to 38 to 60.

Additional reporting by Hayley Miller.

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WASHINGTON -- The Senate voted Tuesday to keep a controversial provision to let the military detain terrorism suspects on U.S. soil and hold them indefinitely without trial -- prompting White House of...
WASHINGTON -- The Senate voted Tuesday to keep a controversial provision to let the military detain terrorism suspects on U.S. soil and hold them indefinitely without trial -- prompting White House of...
 
 
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COMMUNITY PUNDITS

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murphthesurf3 06:00 PM on 11/30/2011
A Confusing Story: Where's the Truth?

Below please find three links. The first provides the exact wording of the provision with some comment pointing out the key lines; the second is Sen. Udall's Amendment, the third is Sen. Levin's response to the attacks on the Appropriations Bills, the fourth is a commentary that provides the best analysis I have found so far.

Bottom  Read More...

Here they are:


http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread780914/pg1


http://www.scribd.com/doc/73053672/Udall-Amendment-to-National-Defense-Authorization-Act-Revising-detainee-provisions


http://levin.senate.gov/newsroom/speeches/speech/levin-floor-statement-on-detainee-provisions-of-ndaa


http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=12076


01:25 AM on 03/22/2013
The Gestapo had the authority to investigate cases of treason, espionage, sabotage and criminal attacks on the Nazi Party and Germany. The basic Gestapo law passed by the government in 1936 gave the Gestapo carte blanche to operate without judicial oversight. The Gestapo was specifically exempted from responsibility to administrative courts, - SOUNDS LIKE DHS
The power of the Gestapo most open to misuse was called Schutzhaft—"protective custody", a euphemism for the power to imprison people without judicial proceedings - SOUNDS LIKE NDAA
Gestapo from wikipedia
CALL YOUR SENATOR AND CONGRESSMAN. NO TO NDAA AND DEFUND DHS
11:08 AM on 06/10/2012
Really very nice post it. Thanks for sharing such a nice information keep it up.....!
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11:15 PM on 01/17/2012
What is funny about all this is; us "hot headed Southern reactionaries"have been pointing and saying look,look! It was much mored fun to make fun ,call us red necks, and minamize us. Diffrent ball of wax now that the presedences set by Lincoln is tighting around your very necks. Enjoy your union as for the smart ones we still want out. On the by; we in the South have seen it all before. Well hush my mouth, ahouse divided against it's self can't stand especialy when the elitist have set fire to it. WE in the South learned there is more than one way to make a law,Grandpa told us.
07:45 PM on 01/17/2012
my feeling on this is that we should not turn are home into a military state if we do on any level then the people that want war and hurm to happen to americans will win. We have fault to hard to let them win so i say no to this bill
11:21 PM on 01/17/2012
This is not a bill.it passed in to law. My feeling is you should have read Tommy Jefferson , Johny Adams,and Benny Fraklin, they had the same idea-about two hundred and fourty years ago.
05:38 AM on 05/04/2012
I found a free way to get music... using a youtube to mp3 converter http://www.nabmp3.com
01:42 PM on 01/10/2012
Revolution has occurred; the constitution has been rewritten by the Senate after we voted to not change the constitution. Corporations are now people, the Senate bails out the banks after the people’s polls say no and now American Citizens can be held without a trial. The timing of this is significant, after all of the revolutions in the Middle East this summer and the New Occupy Wall Street movement at home. Is the government planning a preemptive strike against the people and creating laws to lock up civil rights leaders?
11:31 PM on 01/17/2012
No citizen can be held with out a trial??? Mostly true since 1861 in times of national crises the president can alter that a bit. Lincoln Had the legislatures of several states and several governors arrested by the army and held by the army with out trial or charge. In Missouri Arrest just would not due Gen. Lyons march his secret hessian army into the legislature and opened fire. Germans Americans in WW1 , German, Italians, and Japanees intered becouse it felt right??????
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
drb107
Remember what Opinions are like
01:49 PM on 12/30/2011
Unbelievable, and we set and continue to vote these same people in office over and over again, I realize that President Obama said he would veto this but what happens if a republican wins the election. When are our ELECTED BY US politicians going to start representing their constituents and when are Americans going to wake up to what is going on inside Washington and change it.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Loki D Wolf
06:21 PM on 12/29/2011
This illusion of fear everybody and everything is getting so old.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
koelschwolf
12:52 AM on 12/28/2011
If this bills gets passed than I know it's time to return to the country of my birth after being over 60 years here, having served in the military in the Korean war. My country I weep for you.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
koelschwolf
12:47 AM on 12/28/2011
I can't believe that any Elected lawmaker,would support this bill which is clearly against our constitution. How do they expect to get away with that? I have seen that in Nazi Germany. Are they a bunch of Nazi thugs?
11:34 PM on 01/17/2012
I don't know but I heard Nancy Pelosie and Harry Reid singing the Horst Wessel Lied.
05:42 PM on 12/24/2011
James Clapper wants to distribute a new device that could help people who are wrongly imprisoned by Homeland Security. They would simply have to clap their hands twice and say, "Help, I'm wrongfully imprisoned and I can't get out!"
03:17 PM on 12/23/2011
please beaware of what is happening here.there are other bills like this that are being passed.Defense Authorization Act section 1031. there is a Fema camp bill act. Army regulation 210-35 they are training miltary to take Americans out of their homes to put in these camps.REX 84 program can be executed at anytime it is on the Presidents desk. anyone one can be considered a terror suspect with this law and no trial this is an outrage. May God be with us all God bless and be safe.
04:04 AM on 12/23/2011
Nazionism
04:04 AM on 12/23/2011
Levin and Liebermann. The revange of the Jews adopting Nazionism in the USA.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
OLMEQ
Pay Attention, You can't afford Free Speech...
09:46 PM on 12/20/2011
WOW .... Not a peep....
12:49 AM on 12/20/2011
This is the first step to them taking every single right we have as Americans. Whats so importanat about our country is we are free, our soliders fight on the front line everyday to ensure that. If this bill passes or Martials Law passes, The Gov. will be able to put you in a work camp for breaking no laws, or smoking a ciggerette. Give the Gov. too much control, over U.S. Citizens we will have no rights, we will be stripped of our beliefs, Our families, and our rights.
02:52 PM on 12/23/2011
they do have alot of camps all over the country
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toysax
12:55 PM on 03/19/2012
"a lot" ?name one... give location.. and how many americans are being detained?