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Illegal Gun Sales Run Rampant On Internet

First Posted: 12/14/11 01:30 PM ET Updated: 12/14/11 02:11 PM ET

A New York City undercover investigation heralded as the first of its kind has found a "vast and largely unregulated market for illegal guns" on the Internet, and the worst offender is a website that has gotten mixed up with the law before: Craigslist.

In the report released Wednesday, entitled, "Point, Click, Fire: An Investigation of Illegal Online Gun Sales," investigators found that sellers on Craigslist agreed 82 percent of the time to sell guns to a purchaser who admitted they probably couldn't pass a background check. Not that anyone is supposed to be selling guns on Craigslist. The website, which depends on self-policing, claims to ban firearms sales yet thousands of guns were found listed for sale there, according to the report.

In contrast, investigators were unable to find a single firearm for sale on eBay, which prohibited gun sales in 1999 and "appears to effectively enforce its policy" by removing weapons listed for sale and threatening to restrict or suspend accounts that violate the rules.

The results of the report are set to be announced Wednesday by New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, a long-time gun control advocate who co-founded Mayors Against Illegal Guns, as well as Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly and other officials.

More than 4,000 websites offer guns for sale, according to the Department of Justice. As the new report illustrates, the anonymity of the Internet has spurred huge growth in online sales.

"Criminal buyers who once had to purchase in person can now prowl hundreds of thousands of listings to find unscrupulous sellers. Negotiations can be conducted from the discreet remove of a phone call or an email exchange," it said.

Federally licensed firearms dealers are required to conduct background checks on all buyers, whether in person or online. But unlicensed "private sellers" are exempt from conducting background checks. This so-called "gun show loophole," along with the Internet, now accounts for about 40 percent of U.S. sales, fueling what law enforcement officials say is a huge black market for illegal guns.

One online gun dealer was linked to both the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre that killed 32 people and the mass mass shooting at Northern Illinois University in 2008 that left five dead. Guns purchased illegally online also have been linked to police shootings, gun trafficking and sales to minors.

The report's findings could give new meaning to the term "Craigslist killers," a category of criminals who in recent years have found and lured their victims on the popular classified advertising website.

In the New York investigation, a team of 15 undercover agents surfed the Internet over a period of 18 days to capture audio and video recordings of online gun sellers blatantly skirting the law that bars the sale of firearms to felons, the mentally ill, domestic abusers and other prohibited buyers. The investigators examined 125 private sellers in 14 states who advertised on 10 different websites. They found more than 25,000 guns for sale on those sites alone.

City investigators posing as illegal purchasers asked five sellers to meet in person to exchange cash for guns. All five agreed, selling investigators four handguns and a semi-automatic assault rifle while being recorded with hidden cameras.

Among the findings:

  • 62 percent of private gun sellers -- 77 of 125 online sellers contacted -- agreed to sell a firearm to a buyer who said he probably couldn't pass a background check.
  • Besides Craigslist, unlicensed sellers also offered arms at alarmingly high rates with no questions asked at Armslist, Gunlistings, Glocktalk and the classified section of Utah news website KSL.com.
  • Sellers in five Southern states -- Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisiana, South Carolina and Virginia -- were the worst offenders, followed closely by dealers in Arizona, New Mexico, Utah and Texas.
  • Midwest sellers have the best record, with 48 private sellers refusing to make illegal sales.

The report recommended Congress pass a long-stalled bill that would close the online and gun show loophole to allow background checks for all gun sales, a measure the National Rifle Association has fought for years.

It also said the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives should conduct sting operations against online websites that do not require buyers or sellers to identify themselves, and urged the Bureau to better track guns bought online that are later used to commit crimes. Websites such as Craigslist, it said, should tighten self-policing policies.



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A New York City undercover investigation heralded as the first of its kind has found a "vast and largely unregulated market for illegal guns" on the Internet, and the worst offender is a website that ...
A New York City undercover investigation heralded as the first of its kind has found a "vast and largely unregulated market for illegal guns" on the Internet, and the worst offender is a website that ...
 
 
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05:03 PM on 02/18/2012
I am more concerned about illegal penisvagina sales online.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Dennis Santiago
Asymmetric Provocateur
10:32 PM on 01/11/2012
Whoa! Lobby speak with forked tongue. This article by Stone fronting for Bloomberg says gun sales are rampant and actually twice the number of sales run through the checking systems like NICS because the internet is the new Wild West. At the same time on HuffPost a separate article by Horwitz argues the sales numbers are inflated and there isn't any increase in demand at all. My brain hurts.

So exactly where does Mike Bloomberg find 15 people who can credibly demonstrate they couldn't pass NICS to go buy guns for him? And they do know there are "sting" sellers on those websites right? They work for this guy named Holder who's been known to sell guns to people that don't pass NICS. It just keeps getting more surreal.
02:57 AM on 12/25/2011
people if you are scared of guns go and buy one and learn about it and how and when to use it
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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Y3rMawm
veni, vidi, bibi.
07:10 PM on 12/17/2011
How about gun sales/donations by the government, to Mexico? Are those illegal?
03:58 AM on 12/19/2011
Apparently, it doesn't seem to make a difference whether those guns are being sold to the Mexican gov't, or the Mexican drug cartels.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
06:10 AM on 12/17/2011
" "vast and largely unregulated market for illegal guns" "

Name the make and model of an illegal gun.

I'll wait.
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wolflover3825
Hungry Like the Wolf.
08:00 AM on 12/17/2011
A shoulder thingy that goes up.
02:44 AM on 12/25/2011
huhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
04:00 AM on 12/19/2011
QBZ-97, a Norinco manufactured .223 semi-auto with that "lethal" bullpup design.

Its sad that no one realizes how hypocritical the NRA really are.
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wolflover3825
Hungry Like the Wolf.
07:25 AM on 12/19/2011
How is that illegal?
07:37 PM on 12/19/2011
Well since its not for sale in the US how is it illegal? I can not find 1 listing of this weapon for sale.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
06:50 PM on 12/16/2011
"All five agreed, selling investigators four handguns and a semi-automatic assault rifle"

There is no such thing as a semi-auto assault rifle.
02:53 AM on 12/25/2011
you mean you never heard of assault hammers, bats,screw drivers,cars,rocks,knives,sticks,pencils,ropes,ect.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
06:49 PM on 12/16/2011
"One online gun dealer was linked to both the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre that killed 32 people and the mass mass shooting at Northern Illinois University in 2008 that left five dead. "

And here we really need to take the author to task. The firearms used in that shooting were transfered 100% legally via an FFL and involving a background check
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
06:47 PM on 12/16/2011
"In the report released Wednesday, entitled, "Point, Click, Fire: An Investigation of Illegal Online Gun Sales," investigators found that sellers on Craigslist agreed 82 percent of the time to sell guns to a purchaser who admitted they probably couldn't pass a background check. "

Which is technically not illegal.

"This so-called "gun show loophole,""

There is no federal firearm law which ceases to be in effect at or which contains special exemptions for gun shows.
04:12 AM on 12/19/2011
But the fact that a person IS ABLE to sell a firearm to a person who legally CANNOT possess a firearm ON the grounds of a gun show, most RATIONAL people would consider that a loophole.
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JimInHouston
Arma virumque cano...
11:19 AM on 12/19/2011
Since they can do that virtually anywhere else as well, no RATIONAL person would consider it to be a "gunshow loophole".
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
02:23 PM on 12/20/2011
They can do that anywhere. There is nothing special about gun shows.
01:33 PM on 03/23/2012
You can't sell guns on craigslist they have no listing for guns.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
hagagaga
My comments are funnier than yours.
06:22 PM on 12/16/2011
If he's mayor of New York, shouldn't he be doing something that primarily involves New York?
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
01:43 AM on 12/19/2011
Mayor Bloomberg's so-called "sting" closely resembles the "Gleiwitz Incident" in which the Nazis manufactured a fake attack on Germany by Poland to justify their planned invasion of that nation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jerry Bourbon
10:58 AM on 12/16/2011
But can you get "assault clips" and "shoulder thingies that go up" on the internet?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
enlightened45
11:37 AM on 12/16/2011
I don 't know,Jerr, but when an opponent of drunken driving has to be overly familiar with all the spirits that one might imbibe in order to become intoxicated beyond the legal limit, I will let you know.
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12:39 PM on 12/16/2011
Poor comparison. Drunken driving laws regulate the activity of driving while intoxicated, not the possession of the intoxicating spirits.

I think you would agree that if one would seek to increase of modify the regulation of intoxicating spirits, a basic understanding of what those intoxicating spirits are (and are not) is probably a good thing. Would you respect a legislator on tv advocating for a ban on Kentucky bourbon because its color makes it more dangerous than clear spirits like vodka by giving it a high prove?
freerangevoter
Live Free or Raise Hell
01:45 AM on 12/16/2011
Why is this a big deal? Bloomberg really auta get a life.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
03:36 PM on 12/17/2011
Since people confined to prisons, jails and mental hospitals are already forbidden to possess firearms that pretty much completes the list of "prohibited persons" in my book.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MikeyJaii
Socialism.
12:03 AM on 12/16/2011
If this is new to them now, they'll be surprised what the internet is full off.
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vietveter
Wish ididnt know now what ididnt know then
09:10 PM on 12/15/2011
Andrea,

Perhaps you were surprised, it was newsworthy.

GET OUT MORE ! this is not new-news
08:57 PM on 12/15/2011
A gun cannot be 'illegal." Only who posesses it or what they do with it.
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schotts
Work hard, play harder
10:32 PM on 12/15/2011
Thank you. I agree.
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10:50 AM on 12/16/2011
That's just not true. Any number of firearms can be illegal: sawed-off shotguns, pistols with the serial numbers destroyed, etc.
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wolflover3825
Hungry Like the Wolf.
11:30 AM on 12/16/2011
What about guns that don't have serial numbers? Are they illegal?

I know of a couple "sawed-off shotguns" being owned legally. Youhave to let the authoritied know about it and possible get a special permit. But in order to sell it, it would have to be put back into legal configuration.
12:38 PM on 12/16/2011
The "possesion" CAN be illegal. The act of redacting/altering a serial number can be illegal. But an SBS isn't by itself "illegal". If a person has the proper paperwork via a trust or ATF approved class 3.
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wolflover3825
Hungry Like the Wolf.
08:26 PM on 12/15/2011
This was posted in another discussion site, also involving gun rights. I thought it was stright forward. The more I thought about it I liked even more. I saved it, now I'm reposting it. I didn't write it.

"Instead of constant attacks on our 2nd Amendment Rights, maybe there should be a national drive to take 1st Amendment Rights away from liars. Lies are dangerous! After all, lies got us into a war in Iraq, caused the current financial crisis, and are depriving law-abiding citizens of their Constitutional Rights. Let's see how NY Mayor Bloomers and his Mayors Against Anyone But Criminals [or the rich and famous] Having Guns Campaign, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Lawful Citizens From Protecting Themselves, The National Association Against Gun Rights, the Press, and almost all Democratic politicians, like having their cherished US Constitutional, 1st Amendment Right to free speech constantly under attack!"
01:35 PM on 03/23/2012
The gun control lobbiest can all line up and kiss my but, and other things.