Will China Outsmart the U.S.?

The New York Times:

Three months before the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, Angus Echols, a member of DuPont’s executive committee, began shaping the chemical giant’s plans for the coming decade. The U.S. would soon be at war, he explained in a series of memos and high-level discussions, and the company needed to aid the effort. But it also needed to think far ahead. When the war ended, Echols argued, women would want to buy cheap stockings. And where was DuPont on this crucial matter?

Read the whole story: The New York Times

Comments

[OldTulsan]

12:57 PM on 12/30/2011

Our secret weapon?...

http://www.wal-martchina.com/english/index.htm
Welcome to Walmart China!

[osofar]

03:05 AM on 12/30/2011

Chinese know it doesn't take much to outsmart the US Congress, Presidents, and wealthy in the USA.

[kamact]

10:37 PM on 12/29/2011

YES!

[Customex]

09:15 PM on 12/29/2011

I haven't figured out how to address the problems associated with complacent and entitlement minded youth and ignorant poor but I believe a couple of national policy changes would help to mitigate until the the aforementioned self-disenfranchised might get a clue from foreign example. But, to my points; I would take a lesson from the third world nation of Mexico and not allow real estate ownership by non nationals. As in Mexico, non-nationals might acquire interests through long term leases or trust, but title stays with the homies. Second; I would sell US Treasury bonds at discount, with significantly higher return to nationals than non-nationals. That would incentivise greater national investment in our own country. Perhaps pride in national ownership and higher return for investment in ourselves might spill over into areas of increased ambition and motivation to become more self-reliant and internationally competitive in other areas. One can always dream.

[OldTulsan]

09:33 PM on 12/29/2011

Mexico changed its laws on foreign ownership in 1993:

http://www.mexonline.com/propmex.htm
MEXonline.com guide to Buying Property in Mexico - Real Estate

"CAN FOREIGNERS REALLY OWN PROPERTY IN MEXICO?

Yes, Americans and other foreigners may obtain direct ownership of property in the interior of Mexico. However, under Mexican law, foreigners cannot own property outright within the restricted zone. Instead, a real estate trust must be set up to hold title for the foreigner. Since foreigners are not able to enter into contracts in buy real estate, they must have a bank act on their behalf, much as a trust is use to hold property for minors because they also can not contract. The following is a brief outline of the law regarding such trust, known as "fideicomisos", but potential buyers should always get advice and have all real estate transactions overview by a licensed Mexican attorney.

[snip]

The Mexican Constitution prohibits direct ownership of real estate by foreigners in what has come to be known as the "restricted zone." The restricted zone encompasses all land located within 100 kilometers (about 62 miles) of any Mexican border, and within 50 kilometers (about 31 miles) of any Mexican coastline. However, in order to permit foreign investment in these areas, the Mexican government created the "fideicomiso," (FEE-DAY-E-CO-ME-SO) which is, roughly translated, a real estate trust..."

[Customex]

09:48 PM on 12/29/2011

Thanks for the clarification. I was aware of the restricted zone distinction but neglected to reference it for the purpose of brevity. I do appreciate precision and accuracy....Why do you suppose they maintained non-national ownership restrictions on borders and coastlines?(rhetorical)

[gerald4]

12:29 PM on 12/30/2011

Since the freshly printed paper US Treasury Bonds, and other Securities have NO VALUE, except that the US government is allowing these US Treasury Bonds, Dollars and other Securities (that US citizens paid to foreign nations to make the consumer products that we consumed) to be redeemed for US Dollars that can be used to purchase title to (corporations that own) privately owned businesses, factories, casinos, hotels, farms, land, ports, refineries, forests, ports, breweries, distilleries, and other privately owned NATIONAL WEALTH and other assets located in the USA that were created by previous US generations prior to de-industrialization overseas instead of redeeming these freshly printed paper US Treasury Bonds with gold from Ft. Knox.

When the USA has no more privately owned wealth and assets (real estate and businesses) available for foreigners in industrial countries to exchange for the foreigners freshly printed paper US Treasury Bonds and US Dollars that we gave the foreigners to make consumer products for US citizens, those foreigners will then not accept any more of our US dollars and freshly printed US Treasury bonds to pay for the consumer products that we continue to import and consume.

The Federal government will then not have funding to pay for our US government expenses (bureaucratic payrolls, military payrolls, government contracts, wars, welfare, unemployment, infrastructure expansion, highways, bridges, etc.) and/or to pay for any more imported consumer products and infrastructure construction materials.

[Customex]

01:09 PM on 12/30/2011

Until recently, China particularly, was holding on to the bonds, I assume to capture the accumulating interest. However as the value of the dollar continues to collapse they have begun selling them to anyone else foolish enough to gamble that we will actually be able to continue to pay the interest and eventually pay them off with dollars that actually have measurable redemption value.
Hence, I would rather see leveraged incentive for homies to purchase the bonds as they have the most vested interest in trying to improve and further cultivate their value.
Correspondingly, I believe the "hard" assets should not be sold to non-nationals so as to maintain a basis for continuing interest for future citizens. Foreign revenue may be attracted to invest in trusts, longer term leases or other less tangible interests. After all, I'm not against them bringing and leaving their money in return for entrepreneurial opportunities.
Please accept my use of homies, citizens and nationals interchangeably.

[ur2nutty4me]

08:58 PM on 12/29/2011

Will China Outsmart the U.S.?


Like it's even a question anymore....................

[HanMeiRen]

08:01 PM on 12/29/2011

Will China Outsmart the U.S.?

Not in the foreseeable future, IMHO, when you have the brightest Chinese vying to immigrate to America. To me there is no comparison if you look at the winners of each year's Nobel prizes.

No one has a crystal ball to look far into the future to say that China will never outsmart the U.S. However each year hordes of the brightest from all over the world are absorbed by the US, not China. I, for one, would love to see the continuation of this trend.

Meanwhile I am perplexed to read the pessimism expressed by some posters. It is one thing to be alerted but a totally different one to resort to unfounded despair. Call me blind folded if you want but I, as an immigrant from China, am full of hope and optimism for America.

[OldTulsan]

10:11 PM on 12/29/2011

The U.S. used to be able to land men on the moon. Now it has offshored manned space flight to Russia. The NASA spinoffs are still benefiting us today.

Much of our manufacturing has been offshored to China, including most consumer goods, even many pharmaceuticals.

China is starting to experience some offshoring, as work is moved to Viet Nam., etc.

American workers' share of national income is at an all-time low, while corporate profits are increasing, mainly due to reduced wages and benefits.

I understand that China is working towards universal health care, "Healthy China 2020". The U.S. is the only country where medical disasters cause a large share of personal bankruptcies, even for those who have medical insurance.

Globalization has destroyed the ladders of upward mobility that once made the U.S. a country of opportunity.

[gerald4]

07:23 PM on 12/29/2011

Brazil, Russia, India, China, (BRIC) nations, plus Pakistan, South Korea, and the other industrialized countries of the world that have a positive net foreign trade balance are NET CREATORS of NATIONAL WEALTH (and the associated manufacturing jobs) for their nations.

The de-industrialized USA (and the European nations) with a negative net trade balance are NET CONSUMERS (DESTROYERS) of their own existing NATIONAL WEALTH (and the associated manufacturing jobs) in the USA, who live “high on the hog” by continuously borrowing wealth from the industrialized countries.

Nations need to make the things that they consume, not give title to in-country located farms, land, businesses, hotels, etc to pay for the things that they consume, when they consume more than they create.

[Skeetshooter]

07:08 PM on 12/29/2011

If they've been reading their Sun Tzu then the Chinese have already outsmarted us. To wit:

“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.”

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself,
you will succumb in every battle”

“Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.”

I could go on, but why bother?

[OldTulsan]

07:55 PM on 12/29/2011

"There has never been a protracted war from which a country has benefited." -- Sun Tzu

[Skeetshooter]

07:45 PM on 12/30/2011

Touche!

[frank day]

06:05 PM on 12/29/2011

Our older generation if workers became lazy and dissatisfied.

I think the new upcoming generation will restore us to competitiveness.

They are better educated and don't fear hard work.

[baileywick]

06:01 PM on 12/29/2011

"Will China outsmart the U.S.?"
Of course. They have one party.
We have the democratic party and another bunch of people who don't care diddly about the U.S., only about their own personal pocketbooks and bank accounts, mostly offshore.

[gerald4]

05:50 PM on 12/29/2011

Some "Academic Economic Experts" think that the USA can become a "post-industrial" society of "knowledge workers" consisting of software developers, data analysts, technicians, editors, scientists, lab technicians, teachers, doctors, nurses, architects, accountants, engineers, inventors, lawyers, poets, musicians, historians, philosophers, etc, and still somehow generate sufficient wealth to continue payment to foreigners for foreigners instead of US citizens to manufacture the food, shelter, clothing, and the other essential things that US citizens need to consume in order to support life.

A ”new sustainable economy” might mean that the economy is self sufficient and is producing sufficient products to sustain its members and trade the excess products to foreign nations to accumulate wealth sufficient to purchase things that other economies produce in return for our wealth paid to those foreign producers.

How can US citizens get foreigners to pay for (buy) the services of these "US knowledge workers" if their home grown local "knowledge workers" are equal to, or maybe technically superior to, our "US knowledge workers", especially if their home grown local "knowledge workers" will work for less pay than US citizens?

I do not think that any foreign individual or foreign country would ever purchase any of the services of any US educated liberal arts, MBA, history, philosophy, English, foreign language, economics, musical, artist, social worker, government, political scientist, humanities, or any of the other similarly educated US citizen graduate at any price, no matter how inexpensive these people offer their services.

[cyclone70]

07:58 PM on 12/29/2011

Many of those so called" knowledge jobs" are just as easily outsourced as mfg jobs and in fact more so because anything requiring a skill or education is under the dual threat of lower wage wrokers in other countries or imported H1 b workers

[gerald4]

10:40 AM on 12/30/2011

Exactly!

Maybe Construction, Auto Repair, Plumbing Service, etc are similar to the jobs that cannot be out-sourced to low wage nations!

[gerald4]

05:42 PM on 12/29/2011

I believe that the USA needs a different (third) political party that will re-industrialize the USA by any means possible!

I “googled” up the Prohibition Party's website, and they apparently do not have a party platform adopted since 2008 which was about the last time that they up-dated their website.

That platform stands for balanced budgets, and other generally conservative fiscal spending restraints.

The unemployed should contact them and suggest that they adopt a position favoring the re-industrialization.

They might require that I give up my consumption of alcoholic beverages in order to join the Prohibition Party, but I will if they will promote the re-industrialization of the USA to end the mass unemployment and under employment that the US government created in the past few decades.

I did not see any information on their website promoting the return to legal prohibition of alcoholic beverages in the USA, so maybe I could join that party.



I would consider joining the Green Party, except that they want an even cleaner environment which means closing down more and more US industries and then exporting more of the few remaining US industries and jobs to overseas countries where the environmental costs and the labor costs are less expensive.

We must somehow repeal existing free trade legislation in order to re-industrialize and reverse the balance of trade if we desire to somehow employ US citizens instead of foreigners to manufacture the things that we consume.

[PrairieGayCompanion]

06:16 PM on 12/29/2011

Prohibition party adopted its platform at their 2011 convention. If you can stand it:
http://www.prohibitionists.org/Background/Party_Platform/party_platform.html

Onward to 1812!

[gerald4]

11:42 AM on 12/30/2011

Thanks,

I looked up the last summer, prior to their convention.

Taking over an inactive existing third party would be better than starting a new party.

I do not like the Prohibitio­n party platform either.

[cyclone70]

08:00 PM on 12/29/2011

I never get why the greens would rather ship the safest and cleanest first world factories to places that have lax regulation in that regard - a bit hypocritical IMHO

[msfaye]

04:41 PM on 12/29/2011

i don't know much about ross perot, won't bother to goggle him and at that time anyway i was way to young to really be interested in politics as i am now. but two things i remember "that loud sucking sounds is jobs leaving the country" and "the meskins are taking over". if he predicted it all those years ago, why is everyone so surprised now. when the garment district i believe in NY, SF, begged the american public to understand they were losing jobs to china and other OVER THERE countries everyone wanted clothes cheaper, bye bye, the jobs went to bangledesh, sri lanka, taiwan. car manufactors started putting cars together in mexico, canada and even yugoslavia tried to get in the mix with the yugo, americans will buy anything. people who put things together like your pots and pans, whatnots and trinkets begged the american public to buy american to save jobs and the owners of these companies called the employees together and told them the plant was shutting down and being sent to china, where the employees don't mind making 50cent an hour because at least they have jobs. there was a time chinese employees couldn't even buy what they sent to USA. well now they are hella rich and with other countries and they have the money to buy the USA and they have. now everyone is screaming "buy american", how, those folks played their hand good for years and this is the end result.

[frank day]

06:06 PM on 12/29/2011

Hella yeah!

[OldTulsan]

07:59 PM on 12/29/2011

History is full of missed opportunites...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkgx1C_S6ls
YouTube - Giant Sucking Sound - Ross Perot 1992 Presidential Debate.flv

Perot said when U.S. and Mexican wages would equalize, after the U.S. economy was destroyed.

Perot also mentioned the revolving door between Congress and lobbyists:

A recent example is Liz Fowler:

1. VP Wellpoint
2. Member of Sen Baucus' staff where she wrote the HCR bill
3. Joined the Obama administration.

Few CEOs would have gone into a hostile country to rescue employees:

http://feraljundi.com/2010/07/21/history-ross-perots-private-rescue-of-eds-employees-in-iran-1978/
History: Ross Perot's Private Rescue Of EDS Employees In Iran, 1978

[Rags2Rags]

04:28 PM on 12/29/2011

Due to the public union's stranglehold on our local politicians, our country will never excel. Teachers are not incented to excel. They are paid the same no matter how good of a teacher they are. There is no professional competition and, therefore, the students learn that competition is somehow bad.

You see it in the rules...everybody gets to be student of the month at least once...ribbons for all...no dodge ball...No games that benefit the more physically fit...no more tracks...everybody is taught the same...

This has lead to a stagnant America!!!

It all starts in the classroom!!!

Start a competitive, incentive laden teacher salary schedule. Increase the pay for the more effective teachers. Fire the ineffective ones...And do not incent mediocrity.

That is the only way to get back on top...By starting with the next generation...and starting from day 1.

WHO'S WITH ME???

[Kache]

04:35 PM on 12/29/2011

You want cars that fly, pay teachers what we pay doctors! Double teacher salaries and look at the quality of education go through the roof just because of the quality of people it will attract into the profession.

[Rags2Rags]

04:47 PM on 12/29/2011

You have the idea...Now you also have to offset it by getting rid of bad teachers and giving no raises to average teachers...But significantly increase the salaries for the exceptional teachers. Make them the ones that our children look up to.

[Shieldwolf]

05:15 PM on 12/29/2011

This idea has already been offered in exchange for removing Union tenure rules. The Union leaders wouldn't even let it be put to a vote before their members.

[baileywick]

06:07 PM on 12/29/2011

Blame Bush's "No child Left Behind" bs and remember that as soon as Brown Vs. Board of Education was decided conservatives began a five decade attack on public schools, denying the money, classrooms, teachers, and books that were needed to keep up with the standards that produced the "Greatest Generation". They did not want their precious children to have to go to school with the "duskier races".
The same people who fought fascism in WWII came back to wage war on the minorities in their own country, in their own version of fascism.

[Patty Ann]

02:30 PM on 12/30/2011

Oh my do we really need to turn this into a racial thing ?? I don't think it has to do with race...

[lilipilicious]

04:22 PM on 12/29/2011

Who cares if China will outsmart the US on tests and scores. The truth is that China is an extremely overpopulated nation forever doomed to manufacture toys and garments and computer chips for cheap - because it has non existent environmental laws. The latter is related to bad health (highest cancer rates) and a severely deteriorating environment: there is not ONE clean body of water in China anymore - some of the rivers have become carriers for solvents and industrial waste and let's not even begin to talk about air quality. In addition, the majority of its overpopulation is rural scoring pretty low on many of the WHO and developmental indexes, quality of life is low, wealth distributed very unevenly and there is also the small matter of human rights violations, censorship and non existent democracy.

China, a threat to the US because the few who graduate college score higher in math - me thinks not. There are many other factors going into creating a healthy, wealthy society in which the majority of its people prosper and are content than just scoring high on tests.

[OldTulsan]

08:01 PM on 12/29/2011

Jetliners are not cheap toys...

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/11/05/349329/china-special-c919-update.html
CHINA SPECIAL: C919 update

"...CFM Internatio­nal Providing the Leap-X1C engine that will power the aircraft. Has signed agreement with AVIC's Commercial Aircraft Engine to study the feasibilit­y of an assembly line and engine test facility in China.

GE Aviation Supplying the core processing system, cockpit display systems, on-board maintenanc­e systems and flight recorders with partner AVIC Systems.

Rockwell Collins Supplying the communicat­ion, navigation and surveillan­ce systems on the C919, as well as the in-flight entertainm­ent system and cabin core system. It is doing the work with Chinese partners China Electronic­s Technology Avionics (part of state-owne­d China Electronic­s Technology group), AVIC's China Leihua Electronic Technology Research Institute and AVIC's Shanghai Aero Measuremen­t-Controll­ing Research Institute.

Honeywell Providing fly-by-wir­e flight control system, inertial reference and air data systems, auxiliary power unit, wheels and brakes. It is partnering China's Flight Automatic Control Research Institute, Hunan Boyun New Materials and Changsha Xinhang Wheel and Brake.

Parker Aerospace Supplying the aircraft's hydraulics system, flight control actuation and fuel tank systems in partnershi­p with AVIC Systems.

Liebherr-A­erospace Providing the landing gear and air management systems through partnershi­ps with AVIC's landing gear manufactur­ing subsidiary in Changsha and Nanjing Engineerin­g Institute of Aircraft Systems.

Eaton Supplying the fuel and hydraulic conveyance systems, cockpit panel assemblies and dimming control system..."

[OldTulsan]

08:26 PM on 12/29/2011

Of course the IP of those vendors will be respected.