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Chris Matthews And Robert Traynham, Gay Former Santorum Aide, Have Heated Clash (VIDEO)

Chris Matthews Santorum

First Posted: 01/06/12 07:12 AM ET Updated: 01/06/12 03:31 PM ET

Chris Matthews had a fiery chat with a openly gay former aide to Rick Santorum, the Republican presidential candidate who has an infamously frosty relationship with the gay community, on his Thursday show.

Robert Traynham, who worked for Santorum while he was a senator, defended his former boss from Matthews' repeated attacks. The "Hardball" host wasted little time getting to some hot-button issues. He replayed an exchange Santorum had with Bill O'Reilly earlier in the week where the candidate defended his view that states have the right to ban contraception. He asked Traynham to explain how Santorum could have a view that was shared by so few people.

Traynham began to talk about Santorum's opposition to abortion, but Matthews immediately cut him off.

"That's not what they were talking about!" he said. "Hold on. You're wrong. Stick to the subject."

"If I could finish--" Traynham said. "No, begin!" Matthews shot back. "Is he against birth control legally?" Traynham said he wasn't sure. Matthews then said that Santorum scared him because "he thinks we should have a theocracy."

He then moved on to the equally sticky subject of gay rights and gay sex. This is perhaps the area for which Santorum is most well-known, with his notorious comments linking homosexuality to "man-on-dog" still following him. Just on Thursday, Santorum compared being gay to being polygamous.

Traynham defended his former boss, saying that he was merely raising a Constitutional question, not a personal one. He acknowledged that, as an openly gay man, he disagreed with Santorum about his right to "fall in love and to be with whomever I choose to."

Things got a little awkward when Matthews asked whether Santorum agreed with "your right to have your orientation and to act on it." He wondered, "doesn't he go further and say that you should not be allowed to be gay in any actual way?"

"Absolutely not!" Traynham said, adding that if Santorum had ever felt that way, he would not have worked for him.

"This is ridiculous," he finally said. "This is absolutely ridiculous."

UPDATE: As Crooks and Liars documented back in October, Santorum did indeed say that being gay was a question of "behavior" and not identity. In an interview on Fox News, Santorum made the comparison while talking about "Don't Ask Don't Tell," which he supported.

"Look, the idea of somehow or another that this is the equivalent of being black and being gay is the same is simply not true," he said. "There are all sorts of studies out there that suggest just the contrary. There are people who were gay and lived the gay lifestyle and aren't anymore... it is a behavioral issue as opposed to a color of the skin issue. And that makes it all the difference when it comes to serving in the military."

WATCH:

Also on HuffPost:

Some of Rick Santorum's controversial views on sex.
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  • On Contraception

    "It's not okay. It's a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be." <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/health/2011/10/19/348007/rick-santorum-pledges-to-defund-contraception-its-not-okay-its-a-license-to-do-things/" target="_hplink">Think Progress, 2011</a>

  • On The Definition Of Marriage

    "Marriage is what marriage is. Marriage was around before government said what it was. It's like going out and saying, 'That tree is a car.' Well, the tree's not a car. A tree's a tree. Marriage is marriage." "It's like handing up this and saying this glass of water is a glass of beer. Well you can call it a glass of beer, it's not a glass of beer, it's a glass of water. And water is what water is. Marriage is what marriage is." "I can call this napkin a paper towel, but it is a napkin. Why? Because it is, what it is." <a href="http://iowaindependent.com/60602/santorum-qa-marriage-for-gays-threatens-religious-freedom" target="_hplink">Iowa Independant, 2011</a> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fLbAFNbVSEE http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2011/08/09/292121/santorum-marriage-is-like-water-not-beer/" target="_hplink">Think Progress, 2011</a> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U394HKpak1s" target="_hplink">MSNBC, 2011</a>

  • On Sex In The Military

    "I -- I would say, any type of sexual activity has absolutely no place in the military. And the fact that they're making a point to include it as a provision within the military that we are going to recognize a group of people and give them a special privilege to -- to -- and removing 'don't ask, don't tell' I think tries to inject social policy into the military. And the military's job is to do one thing, and that is to defend our country." <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/22/fox-news-google-gop-2012-presidential-debate/" target="_hplink">Fox News, 2011</a>

  • On Gays In The Military

    "The problem is that sexual activity with people who you are in close quarters with who happen to be of the same sex is different than being open about your sexuality ... They're in close quarters, they live with people, they obviously shower with people." <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/09/rick-santorum-gay-soldiers-shower-dadt_n_1002244.html" target="_hplink">HuffPost, 2011</a>

  • On Polygamy, Bigamy, Adultery..

    "If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything." <a href="http://articles.cnn.com/2003-04-22/politics/santorum.gays_1_statement-on-individual-lifestyles-senator-santorum-bigamy-and-adultery?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS" target="_hplink">Associated Press, 2003</a>

  • On The Difference Between Being Black And Being Gay

    "You are black by the color of your skin. You are not homosexual, necessarily -- obviously, by the color of your skin. [...] The idea that being black and being gay is the same is simply not true..." <a href="http://politics.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=23681&content=58208053&pageNum=-1" target="_hplink">Fox News, 2011</a>

  • On Candidates' Sex Lives

    "When you look at someone to determine whether they'd be the right person for public office, look at who they lay down with at night and what they believe in." <a href="http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/10/rick-santorum-when-selecting-candidate-look-at-who-they-lay-down-with-at-night.php" target="_hplink">Talking Points Memo, 2011</a>

  • On 'Man On Dog'

    "In every society, the definition of marriage has not ever to my knowledge included homosexuality. That's not to pick on homosexuality. It's not, you know, man on child, man on dog, or whatever the case may be. It is one thing." <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-04-23-santorum-excerpt_x.htm" target="_hplink">Associated Press, 2003</a>

  • On Sodomy, etc..

    "Whether it's polygamy, whether it's adultery, whether it's sodomy, all of those things, are antithetical to a healthy, stable, traditional family." <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-04-23-santorum-excerpt_x.htm" target="_hplink">Associated Press, 2003</a>

  • On The Government Getting Up In Your Sex Life

    "The idea is that the state doesn't have rights to limit individuals' wants and passions -- I disagree with that. I think we absolutely have rights because there are consequences to letting people live out whatever wants or passions they desire. And we're seeing it in our society." <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-04-23-santorum-excerpt_x.htm" target="_hplink">Associated Press, 2003</a>

  • On Gay Marriage

    "This is an issue just like 9-11 ... We didn't decide we wanted to fight the war on terrorism because we wanted to. It was brought to us. And if not now, when?" "The battle we're engaged in right now on same-sex marriage, ultimately that is the very foundation of our country, the family, what the family structure is going to look like. I'll die on that hill fighting." <a href="http://articles.mcall.com/2004-02-25/news/3521981_1_gay-marriage-defense-of-marriage-act-amendment-process" target="_hplink">The Morning Call, 2004</a> <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2011/10/19/348059/rick-santorum-pledges-to-die-on-the-hill-fighting-against-same-sex-marriage/" target="_hplink">Think Progress, 2011 </a>

  • On Being A Hater

    "You can say I'm a hater. But I would argue I'm a lover. I'm a lover of traditional families and of the right of children to have a mother and father ... Isn't that the ultimate homeland security, standing up and defending marriage?" <a href="http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04197/346633-84.stm" target="_hplink">Pittsburg Post Gazette, 2011</a>

  • On The Gay Jihad

    "So the gay community said, 'He's comparing gay sex to incest and polygamy, how dare he do this,' and they have gone out on a, I would argue, jihad against Rick Santorum since then." <a href="http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/178543-santorum-gay-community-on-jihad-against-me-for-stance-on-marriage?utm_campaign=briefingroom&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitterfeed" target="_hplink">The Hill, 2011</a>

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Filed by Jack Mirkinson  |