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Don't Count On Ron Paul Making A Third Party Run

Ron Paul And Rand Paul

First Posted: 01/12/12 01:29 PM ET Updated: 01/12/12 04:16 PM ET

With two primary contests down, two things are clear about where Ron Paul's presidential candidacy stands. First, he definitely has managed to build on his coalition of supporters in the years since his 2008 bid. He doubled his number of votes in Iowa and more-than-tripled his support in New Hampshire. But the second thing we've learned is that this improvement, while substantial, is not looking sufficient enough to grab the nomination. While the possibility exists that his caucus state strategy might manage to pull a surprise or two down the road, Paul's main achievement in 2012 will likely be a slew of strong second- and third-place finishes.

But because Paul travels the country with an army of loyalists -- with young, enthusiastic voters swelling the ranks, dedicated to being a disruptive force in electoral politics -- speculation has mounted around the idea that he might run as a third-party candidate. Most of this speculation has little to do with the things Paul has done or said. In fact, he has repeatedly suggested that such a run isn't something he's particularly interested in doing. Despite the fact that he has many viewpoints that make him a pariah figure among the Republican establishment, Paul doesn't seem to want to quit the party. And, as Josh Putnam suggests, that long-game, max-out-the-caucus strategy of Paul's seems specifically geared to get to the end of the nominating process holding leverage:

First of all, the Paul folks are VERY organized. FHQ has something of an inside view of this. For months now, FHQ's 2012 presidential primary calendar has been used by at least two or three Ron Paul sites in either efforts to get the word out about when the various states are actually holding votes or in lengthy tutorials on how to become a delegate. These folks -- whether directly coordinating with the Paul campaign or not -- know the rules and are focused on what I call the back end of the process; the selection of actual delegates (not the binding of them).

Secondly, the business casual orders that came down the line within the Paul campaign to its young volunteers in Iowa hints at something bigger. The campaign, in other words, wants to appear to and actually be a part of an orderly delegate selection process, but a part that gets more Paul supporters a step further in the process in 2012 versus 2008. To the convention in Tampa.

[...]

We could conceivably, then, end up with an unknown but fairly sizable number of Paul delegates pledged to Romney or some other candidate in Tampa based on the rules in the various states. Romney in that scenario wins the nomination but the Paul folks become increasingly likely to hold some sway over some planks in the platform. [And just because, I'll add this: They may also influence the nomination rules for 2016.]

Still, because Paul hasn't denied wanting to mount a third-party run emphatically enough -- he has not literally opened an artery and agreed to swear out a ceremonial blood-oath, one way or another -- you can expect the speculation on this concern to continue, if not accelerate, in the days to come. When that happens, reach for this terrific piece from Buzzfeed's Rosie Gray, which in my opinion, puts the notion to bed, permanently. The key to this puzzle, Gray notes, is Rand Paul:

Rand Paul got something closer to a win when his father scored a strong second in New Hampshire, a high water mark for the family. It was a mark that, after decades of being a leading libertarian voice in the country and perennial candidate, Ron Paul had finally battled his way in from the fringe. In the last leg of his career on the public stage, he has broadened his support beyond the hard core, and taken advantage of the Tea Party moment to offer the most durable alternative to Mitt Romney’s Establishment Republicanism. After this presidential run, his campaign has said he’ll retire. And when he does, a generation of loyalists will need a leader.

[...]

In the meantime, the family’s dreams for Rand have created something else: A hostage. Terrified Republican leaders worry that Ron Paul will take his rowdy mix of Republicans and independents and run a spoiler third party campaign he hasn’t quite ruled out. Ron Paul, they are making clear, has nothing to lose – but his son’s career.

“The question of Rand’s future hangs over the 2012 race in a real way,” said John McCain’s 2008 campaign manager, Steve Schmidt.“If [Ron Paul] were to leave the GOP it would have a crushing effect on his son’s political career in the Republican Party and would be ruinous to any chance of a serious national campaign under the Republican banner.”

And while Ron Paul hasn’t ruled out a third party bid, his aides insist it won’t happen. Inside the Paul clan, Rand’s generation is rising, and the dream is a new kind of Paul campaign: One that’s dead serious, a tick or two closer to the mainstream, and one that wins.

This really boils down to whether you believe the point of Ron Paul's latter-day political activity is geared toward winning him a term as president or if his larger concern is building a sustained political movement. To my mind, it's the latter -- this will likely be Ron Paul's last go-round on the stage of presidential politics as a candidate, and if his movement can't get him the nomination outright within the GOP's primary process, then realism dictates it's not going to get him to the White House running as an independent.

And for all the hype surrounding Paul's history of seemingly quixotic bids for the presidency, I suspect that he's a good deal more practical-minded than he's given credit for being (the caucus strategy is indicative of this). And if Paul's thinking practically about the movement he's built, then he must be thinking that his son is the guy who can continue to bear the torch. Here's where Steve Schmidt should be heeded -- if Paul the Elder were to run outside the GOP, it would immediately sandbag Paul fils' senate career and set back the movement he's built.

So, if you had to bet, bet against a Ron Paul third-party candidacy.

READ THE WHOLE THING:
The Next Paul [Buzzfeed]

[Would you like to follow me on Twitter? Because why not?]

Earlier on HuffPost:

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With two primary contests down, two things are clear about where Ron Paul's presidential candidacy stands. First, he definitely has managed to build on his coalition of supporters in the years since h...
With two primary contests down, two things are clear about where Ron Paul's presidential candidacy stands. First, he definitely has managed to build on his coalition of supporters in the years since h...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
valhalladad
Justice went out of style too soon
06:40 PM on 02/14/2012
Excellent analysis.
05:39 AM on 02/08/2012
PLEASE RUN AS 3RD PARTY, PAUL!!!

PLEASE!

If you DO, then OBAMA will WIN EASILY!

EVERYONE on Huffington should do all they can to promote Ron Paul as the 3rd party candidate. Doing so will GUARANTEE an Obama reelection and prevent the republican nazicrats from destroying what's left of our country, and doing what little that we can to ensure world peace.

GO RON GO!!!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
debekniss
American Dreams are not an urban legend
08:12 PM on 02/11/2012
Mo Ramrod
by going third party he will lose what littl coverage he does have in the media and most ron paul supporters will write his name in if need be. And I am prepared to do this as I m sure man yare too;

Ron Paul 2012 if I have to write him in he will get my vote because he is best for the POTUS
04:10 AM on 02/12/2012
Say what you will, but the bottom line is that is that if the GOP nominee goes head to head against Obama, he will win relatively easy. But keep in mind the GOP is splintered heavily; if there is a choice between two distinctly different candidates such as Ron Paul and Mitt Romney, there will be enough tea partiers who would have voted for Romney but instead will vote for Ron Paul. Calculations show that if Ron Paul ran in a three-way with either Romney or Gingrich with Obama, Obama wins very handily. If Obama gets 45% of the vote in this case, it would be a landslide. Also keep in mind that Ron Paul and the GOP nominee would be splitting the electoral states; Obama will still easily win NY and California.

The bottom line is that Barack Obama can win with as little as 38% of the popular vote in a three-way. If he goes head to head against a republican, most probably he will lose, but if the two GOP guys are siphoning votes away from each other, Obama wins this threesome. Pure and simple.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Michael D Ballantine
Former Presidential Candidate - Amer Elect 2012
02:41 AM on 01/13/2012
You analysis is very persuasive and right on the mark. Too many pundits are dwelling on the mechanics of the election and not the purpose. Ron Paul has said this is his last campaign, he is retiring from politics. He knows as a 76 year old that he is too old for running the nation and he has not concerns about doing so. He is building a movement with the hopes that others can take up his torch and win in 2016 or 2020. He has been working towards this moment for 30 years and is not about to squander it on some egotistical self-aggrandizement like other politicians. Ron Paul is going to leverage his delegates and negotiate the best deal he can get.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
debekniss
American Dreams are not an urban legend
08:15 PM on 02/11/2012
Michael D Ballantine

I am looking at the next four years because if anyone else gets in there the chance of America to thrive again will be lost. I am sick of the dame game new name plan. Paul is being ignored not because he is drastic but he makes corruption very fearful. And that is what is needed and bringing our troops home is vitial in my opinion.

Ron Paul 2012 he has my vote either way.
12:17 AM on 01/13/2012
Progressives:
Damn straight, don't count on him running as an independent after the corporate media, the RNC and the DNC conspire to relegate him to second place after Romney...change your voter affiliation NOW to Republican so that you can vote in the primaries. You can always chicken out and change it back or just vote for Obama (if you can live with yourself afterwards) in the general election.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
WELLS35
06:43 PM on 01/12/2012
I hope he does run--it would split and divide the Republican party.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
susanbsbi
Slave to 3 cats
06:17 PM on 01/12/2012
Paul is going to run as the 3rd party if he doesn't get the nomination. If he don't he will put his son up to doing it
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had410
another veteran voting for Ron Paul
11:30 PM on 02/14/2012
Thanks
This comment has been removed due to violations of our [Guidelines]
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Mr Hoodoo
Card Carryin' Popeyeist
05:52 PM on 01/12/2012
Ron Paul will never run as anything but a goper. He long ago gave up his independent/libertarian mantle.

He's no Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders is the real deal.

Paul sold himself to the gop/tgop corPirate Party of No! and that's where he'll stay to collect his paycheck. if he were true indie/libertarian he would ally himself with either party. But it's says all we need to know about him and his agenda (read that to mean what we all already know about his agenda, which is typical white conservative regressive agenda to take us backwards like no other candidate being featured by the Klown Kar Krew of the tgop).

He's no friend to true indies. His version of "libertariansim" is an Ayn Randian pro-corPirate one in which the monied few get to do as they please and everyone else just needs to walk it off or die-off. Keep in mind Ayan Rand spewed all the selfish pie-in-the-sky garbage of hers whilst taking SSI, welfare and other "socialistic" benefits.

He believes in laissez-faire economy, bad capitalism, which says the market can watch itself. This is like police thinking they can police themselves from being corrupt and abusive.

Besides, Paul's proven he hasn't the emotional temperament to handle the job. He's a hot-head who thinks he's the smartest guy ever and no one should question him on anything or call him out for his failings and various..."tendencies", such as his bigotries.
12:22 AM on 01/13/2012
Bernie might be the real deal, but he's also consistently ignored by the corporate media and is thus irrelevant to this election. We need some control of the Military Industrial Complex and and end to foreign adventurism, not to mention the drug war. Or you can go back to dreaming that you live in a proper parliamentary democracy where Sanders might actually have a voice. What is the real alternative for progressives other than Ron Paul? Obama? Only if you've been completely asleep over the past 3 years.
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Mr Hoodoo
Card Carryin' Popeyeist
02:40 PM on 01/13/2012
So vote Ron Paul and the tgop?

No thanks.
02:48 AM on 01/18/2012
I like Bernie Sanders. I agree, he's the real deal. But I don't see why all these have to be mutually exclusive. I don't like the party system. But I'm also not opposed to those within a major party (like Paul or Kucinich), who try to push it. But I also like to see more national figures that abandon the party system (like Bloomberg) and those who present challenges to it (Nader, Perot). I think we need people inside and outside to crack the duopoly.
05:35 PM on 01/12/2012
Ron Paul. September 6, 2001. On the floor of the congress. That's right 7 years before housing collapse.
Excellent speech on Fed reserve interest rates, bonds, commoditie­s, derivative­s, GSEs in vivid detail. Again in multiple speeches in 2003, 2005, again and again and again. All these speeches are part of the congressio­nal record.

People with no clue on simple economics should listen/rea­d those speeches and take notes.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
bluejoni2525
and we've got to get ourselves back to the garden
05:15 PM on 01/12/2012
Ron Paul is a far right winger don't be fooled !!
04:48 PM on 01/13/2012
You can bark at the moon all you like, but this sort of simple minded analysis is part of the reason we have Barack Obama's warmongering, destruction of civil liberties, etc. etc. to deal with. Most people are reacting to the idea of a Ron Paul presidency on totally emotional, and not intellectual terms. This makes traditional Democrats just as stupid as the Republicans they like to vilify. I've voted Dem across the board on every election since 1980, even though most of the time I had to hold my nose to do it. Not anymore, now that Ron Paul presents some sort of alternative to our slavery to militarism and the military industrial complex that strangling our country.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
debekniss
American Dreams are not an urban legend
05:27 PM on 02/14/2012
Joe Franke
F&F
Great post and I agree I rather go with an alternativ­e then to play the same old game which we are losing. Only Paul is offering a solution which is logical and can work. Bringing our troops home is most important because the way it is going we will be seeing WWIII with anyone else as the POTUS. And why is that? Check out this link and see why our troops are dying for. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDbnHrkT7Gg
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had410
another veteran voting for Ron Paul
11:32 PM on 02/14/2012
Fiscally conservative, socially liberal. The best of both worlds!

Ron Paul 2012 for personal freedom!
04:59 PM on 01/12/2012
This isn't about Ron Paul, its all about dad setting up sonny Rand as POTUS with their own fringe right party.
Ded Peasant
Will I still get a free toy with my happy meal?
05:17 PM on 01/12/2012
It'll be old rhetoric by the time his son has a chance to try to capitalize on it...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
WELLS35
06:45 PM on 01/12/2012
The sooner the better, Split the Reublican Party forever!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
liberaldawg
What are you looking at?
04:46 PM on 01/12/2012
Dixiecrat?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
WELLS35
06:47 PM on 01/12/2012
If Paul ran and won, Cain could be his VP!
04:50 PM on 01/13/2012
No, I wouldn't be surprised if he tapped Gary Johnson to be his VP. But I doubt you were inviting serious analysis with your comment. More barking at the moon.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
08:55 PM on 01/12/2012
Exactly
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
04:46 PM on 01/12/2012
do count on ron paul endorsing gary johnson on the libertarian ticket.
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seventeengeese
Be a flock star
04:42 PM on 01/12/2012
If Ron Paul runs as a third party candidate, the winner will be Mitt Romney.
Ded Peasant
Will I still get a free toy with my happy meal?
05:15 PM on 01/12/2012
Right cause all those Republican Primary Voters are Democrats (Psst. who can't vote in their primaries, who'da thunk it)
04:52 PM on 01/13/2012
Go check your election laws. I think you'll be surprised by who you're allowed to vote for despite your party affiliation...or you can simply change and change back is necessary. They don't plant a chip in your head that will force you to wear your tinfoil hat when you go into the voting booth.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
debekniss
American Dreams are not an urban legend
06:32 PM on 02/14/2012
seventeengeese

Nope RON will stay were he is ... sorry to bumm ya out there :)
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
GEevendale
Moral conservative Liberal heart.
04:30 PM on 01/12/2012
This election will go down in history as the craziest so far.
Ded Peasant
Will I still get a free toy with my happy meal?
05:16 PM on 01/12/2012
One thing is sure the Republicans don't want to win. BO has been giving them what they want and then some...I can't blame them.
04:54 PM on 01/13/2012
Amen to that. You're the only person I've heard besides me who's countenanced that as a possibility. They're perfectly happy with the status quo and this might explain the 3 as*hats and (as the corporate media portrays him) one idealistic crackpot from which Republicans can choose.