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Politifact Hands Mitt Romney Premature 'Pants On Fire'

Romney Debate

First Posted: 01/19/2012 5:31 pm Updated: 01/19/2012 5:31 pm

Over at Politico, Dylan Byers makes a great catch and turns in a piece that offers some insight into how your Politifact sausage gets made.

Seems that when Politifact wanted to fact-check a statement made by Mitt Romney -- "Our Navy is smaller than it's been since 1917. Our Air Force is smaller and older than any time since 1947" -- made at Monday's South Carolina debate, they reached out to a military historian named Tom Bruscino to see if he could aid in the truth-squadding. Bruscino offered up a detail-rich response, explaining that Romney was more or less factually accurate, but lacking in context. Bruscino's explanation is very helpful -- it gives cogent consideration to the sorts of issues that come up in top-flight defense reporting:

So, given the geopolitical situation and the state of technology, it seems that the Navy and Air Force can stand to be smaller than they have been in the past. But there is a key contextual difference. Because the forces are so reliant on a small number of expensive and highly sophisticated ships and aircraft to to the job of large numbers of less sophisticated technologies in the past, the current technologies are more valuable and the overall system is more fragile.

If the Navy loses one aircraft carrier to enemy action, for any reason, that loss would be catastrophic in a way such a loss would not have been in the past. Likewise, the Air Force cannot afford to lose even small numbers of the highly sophisticated airframes of today. An additional contextual difference is that the U.S. military used to prepare during peacetime to mass produce weapons and material in the event of war. That is not the case today. For better or worse, the military is stuck with what it has for a long time once war begins, and regardless of losses (e.g.: the delay in producing up-armored Humvees and MRAPS for Iraq). In that sense, the small but sophisticated military is also risky.

If you really want to get deep into the weeds on topics such as, say, Defense Department budgeting, these matters are key. What are the future threats and where will they come from? How do we confront these threats? With what force? With what tech? How should a limited amount of money be best spent? When Romney says something like, "Our Navy is smaller than it's been since 1917. Our Air Force is smaller and older than any time since 1947," that opens the door to a host of interesting inquiries.

And for that reason, Bruscino was rather annoyed to find that Politifact had adjudicated the matter with a "Pants On Fire" rating. Byers pulls the most pertinent part of Bruscino's response:

However, I did think his questions to me were leading. Remember, Mr. Jacobson asked "(2) What context does this ignore (changing/more lethal technology, changed geopolitical needs, etc)?," which both assumes and implies to the interviewees that Romney ignored those specific contexts.

And that's the thing: the debate moderators didn't have anything to say or ask about those "specific contexts." Let's go to transcript:

KELLY EVANS: Governor Romney, when President Obama signed the National Defense Authorization Act into law, he enacted a provision allowing him to indefinitely detain American citizens in U.S. military custody, many, including Congressman Paul, have called it unconstitutional. At the same time the bill did provide money to continue funding U.S. troops. Governor Romney, as president, would you have signed the National Defense Act as written?

ROMNEY: Yes, I would have. And I do believe that it is appropriate to have in our nation the capacity to detain people who are threats to this country, who are members of al Qaeda. Look, you have every right in this country to protest and to express your views on a wide range of issues but you don’t have a right to join a group that is killed Americans, and has declared war against America. That's treason. In this country we have a right to take those people and put them in jail.

And I recognize, I recognize that in a setting where they are enemy combatants and on our own soil, that could possibly be abused. There are a lot of things I think this president does wrong, lots of them, but I don't think he is going to abuse this power and I that if I were president I would not abuse this power. And I can also tell you that in my view you have to choose people who you believe have sufficient character not to abuse the power of the presidency and to make sure that we do not violate our constitutional principles.
But let me tell you, people who join al Qaeda are not entitled to rights of due process under our normal legal code. They are entitled instead to be treated as enemy combatants.

EVANS: Senator Santorum …

ROMNEY: I've still got time. So as long as I still have time I just want to go back and agree with what Governor Perry said, the most extraordinary thing that’s happened with this military authorization is the president is planning on cutting $1 trillion out of military spending. Our Navy is smaller than it’s been since 1917. Our Air Force is smaller and older than any time since 1947.

We are cutting our number of troops. We are not giving the veterans the care they deserve. We simply cannot continue to cut our Department of Defense budget if we are going to remain the hope of the Earth. And I will fight to make sure America retains military superiority.

EVANS: Senator Santorum, 30 seconds to you, sir. Same question would you have signed, as president would you have signed the National Defense Authorization Act into law as written?

So, the line in question was a throwaway line in the middle of some extended remarks on the NDAA authorization. None of the debate moderators seized on the moment to ask follow-ups specifically related to that claim. (By the time the moderators came back to Romney, the topic had switched to Social Security.)

Also, let's note: Mitt Romney never lays the blame for Navy and Air Force force levels at Obama's feet. He is complaining that "the president is planning [note the future tense] on cutting $1 trillion out of military spending." The more misleading thing here is that Romney seems to be attributing the coming "trigger cuts," born from the failure of the Super Committee, on Obama, when these were actually part of a mutually agreed-to deal between all parties.

And until Romney is probed more deeply on the matter, it's impossible to conclude that he is lying. In the first place, the statement was technically accurate. But more to the point, we need to find out what Romney would do to rebuild the Navy and Air Force to levels he deems appropriate, and to what task would those resources be put to. We could stand to learn his opinion on future threats and the means by which they are thwarted. And Romney could have answers to these questions that make sense. Go back and read Bruscino's response again -- he leaves the door open to the possibility that these force levels are not ideal, and that boosting them could be a net positive.

Or, Romney could just be deploying that line as a means of painting Obama as being soft on our enemies, fingers crossed that the context will not be explored and that follow-up questions will never be asked. It's possible, and given the fact that the Romney campaign have essentially said that lying and taking things out of context is fair, welcomed, and to be expected, it's likely. Until we hear more from Romney, we can't adjudicate whether he's intending to mislead, inform, or raise what could be an interesting, fruitful debate. For what it's worth, Politifact only has this to say on that matter:

In addition, Romney appears to be using the statistic as a critique of the current administration, while experts tell us that both draw-downs and buildups of military equipment occur over long periods of time and can't be pegged to one president. Put it all together and you have a statement that, despite being close to accurate in its numbers, uses those numbers in service of a ridiculous point. Pants on Fire.

The operative phrase, however, is "appears to be." Seems to me that the standards for ruling that a statement is pants aflame, it needs to be based on something more definitive than appearances.

Bruscino says that Romney "could be given credit for a half-truth, even if the context complicates the matter" and I have to say that I agree. But more to the point, this highlights the sort of cloddishness that Jim Newell cited when he warned that Politifact was becoming like the "credit ratings agencies":

They are just companies that employ credit risk analysts. But since they devised a similarly easily digestible alphanumeric code -- AAA, BBB, AA+, whatever -- and people have bought into this, they wield immense centralized power over the entire world. But that doesn't mean they won't screw up.

Maybe Romney's pants are on fire. But Politifact hasn't yet done the work to make that determination.

READ THE WHOLE THING:
PolitiFact's art of interpretation [Dylan Byers @ Politico]

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Politifact Has Decided That A Totally True Thing Is The "Lie Of The Year," For Some Reason

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Over at Politico, Dylan Byers makes a great catch and turns in a piece that offers some insight into how your Politifact sausage gets made. Seems that when Politifact wanted to fact-check a statem...
Over at Politico, Dylan Byers makes a great catch and turns in a piece that offers some insight into how your Politifact sausage gets made. Seems that when Politifact wanted to fact-check a statem...
 
 
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04:49 PM on 01/20/2012
People wondering about context and intent, Romney gave it in his own statement. "We simply cannot continue to cut our Department of Defense budget if we are going to remain the hope of the Earth. And I will fight to make sure America retains military superiority."

Cuts to our military and the "small" size of the inventory is going to hurt our total military strength. And that is pants-on-fire worthy.

We have more ships than Russia, China, DPRK, and Iran put together. 500+ more.

Almost twice as many aircraft (18,000+) as the combined totals of the same 4 countries.

We have the largest submarine fleet, though China is closing in. But ours are vastly superior to theirs.

In every area our military equipment is superior. Which is why Romney's concern about our superiority is laughable.
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gumbo1049
polytechnician
08:10 AM on 01/20/2012
All this coming from a privileged son of a rich man who DODGED THE DRAFT.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ShanaJuly
07:21 AM on 01/20/2012
Forget about it...we have a media that is about as smart as a box of rocks. The media today gives journalism a bad name...
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chtrek
MichiganLiberal
11:17 PM on 01/19/2012
Bigger is not always better.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
420
wilderness is my church
10:25 PM on 01/19/2012
Why does the GOP love war guns sooo much. Bomb Iran? And they profess to be Christians? Church goers!!! Bush got us into TWO wars...and the cost PRICELESS. Mitt BIG is not always BEST...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Greg285
09:27 PM on 01/19/2012
Romney is complaining about the size of the USAF and USN is truly laughable, especially coming from someone who never serve nor has any of his sons because they prefer a life if privilege!!
09:54 PM on 01/19/2012
What's laughable is that he thinks we need 50,000 -75,000 heavy bombers and fighters in-inventory at all. That's not a defense force, that's an invasion force.
09:25 PM on 01/19/2012
when you think about it, one Stealth bomber with Luke Skywalker at the controls could take out the entire world, particularly with a couple droids as backup. so why build a monster air force?

...unless you wanted Eisenhower's warning to become reality.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
roostertatoo
I want a President who banks in the USA
08:59 PM on 01/19/2012
Politofact could work around the clock and still not be able to check this liar's uderances...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
cerdayes
I mind you buying my government
08:28 PM on 01/19/2012
Mitt's father was born in Mexico, i would like to see his long form birth certificate.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/16/world/americas/mexican-romneys/index.html?iref=allsearch
mistergg69
obama 2012
08:35 PM on 01/19/2012
Romney will allow a Mexican invasion...OBAMA 2012
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
wonderfullone
11:19 PM on 01/19/2012
Bingo.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
photobug90802
Question Authority
08:14 PM on 01/19/2012
We spend more on our military than any country in the world. We deploy the most sophisticated, lethal (and arguably fragile) weapons systems that money can buy. I guess I have to ask, how much is enough? If you ask the MIC it's never enough, ask a right-wing nut and always more is better. Now look at our country with an bridges and building falling apart and millions out of work, tell them where they think more should be spent. It sure isn't going to be building infrastructure in Afghanistan or Iraq. I'm not a Paul fan but sometimes enough is enough. If these GOP candidates are so hot for a fight, they need to invest their kids not mine.
Viper
Former repub, still repenting
08:42 PM on 01/19/2012
WE SPWEND 17 TIMES MORE THAN ANY OTHER NATION AND ALMOST 50% OF THE WORLDS DEFENWSE BUDGET...

Our Navy in tonage is 17 times more than the next largest Navy.

Yes today we have aircraft carriers, that in size and mass are 5 times larger and one plane can carry the destructive capaicity of WW2.. or a single sub can carry 5 times the total destruction of WW2. eh gads...

Mitts a fool...
08:04 PM on 01/19/2012
Mitt Romney was right. Not sure why that statement was considered so controversial. Do you have any idea how huge the navy was during the 20th century? Or how intense the air force researched new tech during the cold war?

I don't get the outrage, to be honest. Yes, our military is still the biggest is the world....but - regardless of his motives - Romney wasn't "lying."
Viper
Former repub, still repenting
08:43 PM on 01/19/2012
No he was misleading, and not talking fire power whihc is 1000 times greater.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DonCosenza
07:53 PM on 01/19/2012
So, PolitiFact consulted 14 'experts', one of whom was Bruscino, and since Bruscino thinks that PolitiFact went too far in their judgment, therefore PolitFact's judgment was premature?

Sorry Jason, but I find your criticism only Half True.
04:52 PM on 01/20/2012
Not only do I find it half-true, it's lazy. I can copy-and-paste someone else's work and write a couple of "me too" statements. Can I work for Huffpo?

Considering that other experts called Romney's statement "doesn't pass 'the giggle test.'" I would say that is qualifies for pants-on-fire.
07:43 PM on 01/19/2012
These are the sort of facts that are most interesting to debate, especially when it comes to, "Why are they being used?"

Romney is using these facts to give an impression that our air force and navy are "weak or vulnerable" by comparing a head count of planes and ships between now and carefully chosen times in the past.

The idea that our air force or navy is in any way weak is utterly contradicted by the fact that our air force and navy have been able to utterly and rapidly neutralize the air power, command/control and armor of a number of nations since the 1980s (including Iraq with the 3rd greatest armor during the "gulf war") with extraordinarily few losses of personel/equipment and extraordinarily little collateral damage or civilian casualty. The nation building/peace keeping ground operations however are far more long-lived even if the close-air support enabled by the "shock and awe" plays a large role in a kill ratio of "us to them" that would be the envy of any ground military commander of bygone wars.

Back to, "Why mention?" Like Obama, Romney has ZERO military experience. Romney is doing what all politicians do--using facts with no meaning to sway opinion to his favor via emotion.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Dosadi
Political agnostic
07:42 PM on 01/19/2012
Yet our military uses more oil than the rest of the world.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sillygames
07:40 PM on 01/19/2012
Hello, my name is Mitt Romney and I have lied in this message.
07:50 PM on 01/19/2012
Hello, my real name is Mitt Osmond.
mistergg69
obama 2012
08:37 PM on 01/19/2012
Hello, my name is Miguel Ramirez....OBAMA 2012