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Mahmoud Abbas, Palestinian President, Says Low-Level Israel Talks Are Over

Palestinian Israeli Talks

KARIN LAUB   01/25/12 02:29 PM ET   AP

RAMALLAH, West Bank — A low-level dialogue between Israelis and Palestinians about a future border has ended without any breakthrough, the Palestinian president said Wednesday, reflecting the impasse plaguing the negotiations for at least three years.

President Mahmoud Abbas said he would consult with Arab allies next week to figure out how to proceed now. While frustrated with the lack of progress, Abbas is under pressure to extend the Jordanian-mediated exploratory talks, which the international community hopes will lead to a resumption of long-stalled formal negotiations on establishing a Palestinian state.

Israel said Wednesday it's willing to continue the dialogue. Abbas didn't close the door to continued meetings, saying he'll decide after consultations with the Arab League on Feb. 4.

A Palestinian walkout could cost Abbas international sympathy at a time when he seeks global recognition of a state of Palestine in the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem, the territories Israel captured in the 1967 Mideast war.

The gaps between the leaders are vast, and Abbas believes there is no point in returning to formal negotiations without assurances, such as marking the pre-1967 war lines as a basis for border talks and halting Israeli settlement building on occupied lands. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says everything should be discussed in negotiations and insists he is serious about reaching a deal by year's end.

Though there have been talks off and on, the last substantive round was in late 2008, when Israel informally proposed a deal and the Palestinians did not respond. When Netanyahu took office the next year, he took the proposal, including a state in most of the territories the Palestinians claim, off the table.

A round started in late 2010 by President Barack Obama quickly sputtered over the settlement issue.

Visiting EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton is scheduled to meet separately over the next two days with Abbas and Netanyahu to try to salvage the exploratory talks. Two officials involved in the contacts said she is trying to put together a package of Israeli incentives that would keep the Palestinians from walking away.

"We need to keep talks going and increase the potential of these talks to become genuine negotiations," Ashton said.

Before his meeting with Ashton, Netanyahu said, "We've been trying to make sure that the talks between us and the Palestinians will continue. That is our desire."

Under Jordanian mediation, Israeli and Palestinian envoys have met several times over the past month, including on Wednesday. The Quartet of international mediators – the U.S., the U.N., the EU and Russia – said last fall that it expected both sides to submit detailed proposals on borders and security arrangements in these meetings.

Palestinian officials said they submitted their proposals, but that Israel did not. Abbas suggested that exploratory talks could continue if Israel presented a detailed border plan.

"If we demarcate the borders, we can return to negotiations, but Israel does not want to do that," Abbas said Wednesday, after talks in Jordan with Jordan's King Abdullah II. His remarks were carried by the Palestinian news agency Wafa.

The Palestinians are flexible on security arrangements, but would object to any Israeli presence in a Palestinian state, he said.

Netanyahu has said he would not give up east Jerusalem, the Palestinians' hoped-for capital, but has never outlined where he would draw a border.

Such a demarcation could set off a political firestorm in his governing coalition, particular among pro-settler parties, because it would spell out how many settlements would have to be dismantled at a minimum.

In the exploratory talks, Israel submitted a list of 21 issues that would need to be discussed, but didn't present positions.

The Palestinians have accused Netanyahu – a reluctant latecomer to the idea of Palestinian statehood – of seeking negotiations as a diplomatic shield, with no real intention of reaching an agreement.

An Israeli government official said Israel is committed to reaching a full accord before the end of the year. "We hope that the Palestinians aren't looking for an excuse to walk away from the table," the official said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to brief reporters.

The two sides even disagree on how much time was set aside for these talks. The Palestinians said the deadline is Thursday, or three months after the Quartet issued its marching orders, while Israel believes it has until early April, or three months after the start of meetings.

In other developments Wednesday, the Geneva-based Interparliamentary Union protested the arrest of Hamas lawmakers by Israel in recent days. Five legislators have been arrested since last week, including Speaker Abdel Aziz Dwaik. The IPU, which represents 159 parliaments worldwide, said it is "extremely concerned" and demanded that the lawmakers be released.

Currently, 24 of 45 Hamas legislators from the West Bank are in Israeli detention on charges of membership in an illegal organization. Hamas lawmakers have been subject to arrest by Israel since the group defeated Abbas' Fatah movement in the 2006 parliament election.

Hamas alleged that the arrests are meant to sabotage presidential and parliamentary elections, tentatively set for late spring. Hamas has said it would only participate in elections if its candidates are safe from arrest by Israel.

Israel says the arrests are not politically motivated.

Earlier on HuffPost:

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RAMALLAH, West Bank — A low-level dialogue between Israelis and Palestinians about a future border has ended without any breakthrough, the Palestinian president said Wednesday, reflecting the im...
RAMALLAH, West Bank — A low-level dialogue between Israelis and Palestinians about a future border has ended without any breakthrough, the Palestinian president said Wednesday, reflecting the im...
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hfpf
Wake up World.
03:53 PM on 01/30/2012
Con Coughlin
I am told by Western diplomats close to the Palestinian-Israeli exploratory talks in Jordan that the reason they are running into difficulty is because the Palestinian delegation, led by Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat, is refusing to take the talks seriously. A Western diplomat said that when the Israeli delegation arrived for a meeting last weekend in Amman to present their latest security proposals, Erekat simply refused to enter the room. The diplomat said he was surprised at Erekat's behavior, especially as the topic was supposed to be one of the main topics on the agenda.
Erekat's refusal to enter the negotiating room and hear what the Israelis had to say does not bode well for attempts to get the two sides to resume full negotiations, and raises questions about just how serious the Palestinians are about getting a peace deal. (Telegraph-UK)

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/concoughlin/100132355/the-palestinians-are-doing-their-best-to-derail-peace-talks-with-israel/
08:45 PM on 01/27/2012
More palestinian intransigence I see.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Cynthia Rays
peace in the valley seeker
02:34 PM on 01/27/2012
"The country is being taken over, by using ideology and demography and thanks to our general indifference, by a camp comprising three population groups: Haredi Orthodoxy, religious nationalism and rightist-religious traditionalism. This religious, fundamentalist camp shares similar ideology, shows contempt for democracy and individual rights, discriminates against women, hates seculars (known as “wicked” in Jewish Law) and despises anyone who isn’t Jewish.

According to all available data, including Central Bureau of Statistic’ polls, this camp already comprises some 25% of Israel’s adult population (citizens aged 20 and above.) This group’s natural growth rate is the highest in the Western world and its population doubles itself every 25 years. Almost 50% of Jewish children and youths in Israel today belong to this Ortho-Fascist camp and are being educated at its institutions and in line with its spirit.

The phrase “Ortho-Fascist” is not a derogatory term, but rather, a factual description of this camp’s views: A combination of a radical-religious worldview and a religious-fascist worldview that sees Israel itself as an apparatus of special holiness."
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4180647,00.html
12:37 PM on 01/27/2012
Google Palestinian Zionists.

Funny how Palestinians love the state of Israel, and see the truth.
Even ex Palestinian bombers support Israel because they questioned their own motives and found out the truth
This comment has been removed due to violations of our [Guidelines]
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04:37 AM on 01/27/2012
Never before has the Israeli right or their American wannabes had such a clear choice for president than Newt Gingrich who is affectionally referred to as "Newtenyahu" inside Sheldon Adelsons PAC dedicated to buying the Israeli right an American president.

"No other major presidential candidate in recent times has had his fortunes based so squarely on the contributions of a single donor, as Gingrich has on Adelson, who has spent millions in support of Gingrich and his causes over the past five years. In a primary season dominated by the mega-spending of super PACs, Adelson’s efforts on Gingrich’s behalf provide a window into the expanding influence of the super-rich on American politics." - Washington Post, 01/20/2012.

Adelson is both Newts and Netanyahu's largest financial supporter having gone so far as to buy, and distribute free, an Israeli newspaper (Yisrael Hayom) dedicated to the support of the Netanyahu agenda. Adelson is unabashed in calling for the expulsion of all Arabs from Israel and the occupied territories and has been very vocal in calling for an American attack on Iran.

Adelson has staunchly defended Gingrich to fellow Jews. When Jewish Week wrote a story in May headlined, “Will Gingrich Bomb With Jewish Republicans?” Adelson called up a columnist at the paper to complain. “There is not a better advocate for Israel,” Adelson told the columnist.

A vote for Newtenyahu is a vote for everything you claim to believe in. Climb aboard.
Rosin the Bow
Hail to the Victors Valiant
08:09 AM on 01/27/2012
Tedious, but less ignorant.
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06:57 PM on 01/26/2012
I suppose this position buys Abbas the 4 months he needs to try to compete against Hamas in the next Palestinian election.
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04:54 PM on 01/26/2012
What a shocker. Whats the game plan now Abbas? Run back to the UN to beg for a state that you can only get through Israel's approval?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
robertstone1robert
My micro bio is too big.
12:21 PM on 01/26/2012
It's very simple, really. The international community has to realize this as well. The Israeli experience with the Arabs has been deadly and bloody for it. How do you expect any trust to develop? It is a difficult nut to crack. Abbas is no moderate, a lover of peace, as the media tries to portray him. He met with a female terrorist who lured a young and lonely Israeli. They were to meet at a secluded area of the West Bank, where she arranged to have him killed. She was among the recently freed terrorists by Israel. The meeting was held in Turkey. In any peace process the first thing that has be toned down is the rhetoric--by the Imams, the neighbors in their newspapers and in the street.
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12:56 PM on 01/26/2012
Sunday, March 14, 2010
PM B. Netanyahu's Knesset Speech honoring Jewish terrorists.

"Today, we honor the memories of the nine Irgun fighters and the three Lehi fighters who were tried and sentenced to death by hanging. They were willing to pay the heavy price for their actions..."

http://begincenterdiary.blogspot.com/2010/03/pm-b-netanyahus-knesset-speech.html

Israeli government supports museums that honor assassins and terrorists including one located on a street named for a terrorist.The thoroughfare runs between Florentine and Emeq-Yisrael, and bears the name Stern Street in honor of Avraham Stern.
Rosin the Bow
Hail to the Victors Valiant
01:23 PM on 01/26/2012
"There is an argument about the character of the Jewish underground movements. Those who claim symmetry between them and Arab terrorist organizations need to examine what their intentions were and what the intentions of Arab terrorists are, which is generally and almost always to methodically harm civilians in thousands of attacks. On the other hand, in the case of the Jewish underground movements, both the Irgun and Lehi, such occurrences were exceptions and targets were, for the most part, military – targets that were indisputable. Therefore, the exceptions prove the rule and not the other way around."
hfpf
Wake up World.
01:50 AM on 01/27/2012
No moral equivalence, Taxim. Arabs just want to K--i-L-l J-e----ws.
01:16 PM on 01/26/2012
"The Israeli experience with the Arabs has been deadly and bloody for it. "
How do you justify this since the Israelis are responsible for 90% of the killing?
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Gui Montag
Former Palestinian Supporter
01:53 PM on 01/26/2012
Loaded question logical fallacy. Try again.
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robertstone1robert
My micro bio is too big.
02:46 PM on 01/26/2012
Apparently, you are given your marching orders and you obey like a puppet, parroting everything you were told.
You cite this as a fact? Of course, you don't reckon with suicide bombers and others who had their evil missions interrupted.
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blutopie
maui ono
11:30 AM on 01/26/2012
Israeli papers are reporting that Marwan Barghouti will likely be elected the next Palestinian President, as Abbas is finally steppnig down.

This is really amazing - Israeli President Shimon Peres has already said that Israel will release Barghouti from Israeli prison if he is elected president.

The Israeli fanaticism to attack Iran is only shows their desperation to divert attention from the momentum of the Palestinian state declaration, the looming reality (according to the Israelis themselves) of Palestinians successfully suing Apartheid out of existence at the ICC, and the election of Palestinians such as Barghouti

In order to beat Hamas, Fatah has to elect Barghouti, but Barghouti is acceptable to Hamas as well so it looks like this is the end of the decades long Israeli 'divide and conquer' strategy of the Israelis and their comrades in the Israeli Lobby in the US.

Palestinian unity is Marwan Barghouti - Barghouti in fact would probably be the shoe-in for 1st Prime Minister or President of the One State Solution because 20% of the Israeli population is Palestinian, and that added to the WB and Gaza Palestinians would put Barghouti over the top


In rare court appearance, Marwan Barghouti calls for a peace deal based on 1967 lines
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/in-rare-court-appearance-marwan-barghouti-calls-for-a-peace-deal-based-on-1967-lines-1.409329

'Barghouti remains the only Fatah member who could inherit Abbas' place when the time comes'
12:03 PM on 01/26/2012
Barghouti would be an interesting addition to the mix. Pre-Oslo, he publically indicated a willingness to drop ROR in exchange for a state. He was on of the leaders of the Second Intifada, which resulted in being held in jail through the present time. i don't think he is acceptable to hamas because he is not Hamas. But he is a warrior who could be a match for hamas, and keep Fatah in power, which would make Israel more secure. We'll see.
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blutopie
maui ono
01:19 PM on 01/26/2012
Of course as you and Israel know, Barghouti is the model Palestinian Unity candidate/leader and is perfectly acceptable to many/most in Hamas (eg, the precise reason Israel is so desperately afraid of this Nelson Mandela of Palestine and have him locked up).

Barghouti is the Palestinian Unity leader par excellence - he knows it, I know it, and Israel knows it. Even better, Shimon Peres has already stated that Israel be forced to free him once elected

Barghouti will be coming in at a very opportune time to preside over the dismantling of Israeli Apartheid and the new One State Realities Israel will be facing

Top Israeli IDF and GOI legal teams are on the record (voluminous citations in Haaretz, Wikileaks Israeli government leaks, etc, etc ) as saying the Israelis expect (yes, the Israeli lawyers themselves) for the Palestinians to be successful at the ICC in suit after suit against the Apartheid state because Apartheid is simply indefensible.

The current top Israeli strategy for the looming strategic debacle of having Apartheid dismantled out from under her is to try to pre-emptively capitulate to the One State Solution - though they are trying to rig it as best they can.

So there you have it - a One State Solution with Barghouti on the loose (and perhaps challenging Netanyahu or Lieberman (if he's not in jail) for PM/Presidency of the One State in 2020)

PS: ROR is 2ss and inoperative once the One State is in effect
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Kramerica-Industries
And with Darren’s help, we’ll get that chicken
12:26 PM on 01/26/2012
How could Barghouti be elected if there are no elections?
mage
homemaker
11:22 AM on 01/26/2012
TWO STATES NOW!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Cory Gudwin
examine thyself before blaming the system
10:16 AM on 01/26/2012
Oh, my
All the Ron Paulistinians are on the board today. I take comfort in the fact that the majority in the US realize that countries don't have friends, they have interests. The Palistinians have nothing to offer the US but complaints. Many people have lost land in wars. They endure and move on.
I don't see anyone bleeding for the completely stateless Kurds. The only explanation for the difference in interest level is that no Jews are involved and there is a fundamental dislike of Jews and Israel amongst a portion of the academic Left. Especially in the UK.
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10:43 AM on 01/26/2012
I am unaware of any treaty violations or any other official agency or government on the planet that has ruled that the Kurds are occupied. Perhaps the Israeli Supreme Court?
Rosin the Bow
Hail to the Victors Valiant
11:08 AM on 01/26/2012
"I am unaware of any treaty violations or any other official agency or government on the planet that has ruled that the Kurds are occupied."

So that makes it OK.
01:02 PM on 01/26/2012
That's because it's not fashionable, plus the Turks would never go for it.
This comment has been removed due to violations of our [Guidelines]
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Gui Montag
Former Palestinian Supporter
09:48 AM on 01/26/2012
"Yes, the tragedy of the Palestinians isn’t that they are victims of injustice at the hands of the Israelis. It is their own tendency to destroy themselves from within.

The most powerful factor keeping Palestinians together as a people is the anger they share in response to injustices by Israel. But that’s a pathetic reason for unity. Worse, anger easily turns into hatred and hatred easily turns into violence, terrorism and killings. And violence undermines even the most just of causes.

Palestinians hate Israelis but they hate themselves even more.

Palestinian activists spend as much time bashing their own people as they do bashing Israel. The truth is that for the Palestinians, bashing Israel results in nothing but more defeats and losses. Bashing other Palestinians makes them feel better, and serves to distract their community from their inherent leadership failures.

Yes, it’s true. The Palestinian leadership is a failure, and the activists who lead the hatred, for example against Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, a moderate Palestinian like myself, and against anyone who dares to challenge their fanaticism, are the primary cause.

Let’s define failure. In nearly 100 years of battling Jewish immigrants and then the Israeli people, the Palestinians have failed to establish sovereignty over one inch of historic Palestine."

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=255010
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MarcEdward
likes all cats more than most people
10:52 AM on 01/26/2012
That's a good link, thanks for the story.
One guesses you did not read the entire thing.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Gui Montag
Former Palestinian Supporter
11:13 AM on 01/26/2012
It's not a story. It's the ugly, ugly truth.
01:59 PM on 01/26/2012
Read your own link.
Typical Israeli and Jewish prejudice.
Occupy and steal then blame the victims.
Rosin the Bow
Hail to the Victors Valiant
02:33 PM on 01/26/2012
The link was written by a Palestinian.

What was that about prejudice?
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Json
Cynical dreamer, sarcastic idealist...
04:54 PM on 01/26/2012
Typical jewish prejudice??

But if I hint that that is a touch anti-semitic, then I am being intolerant right?