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Israel-Palestinian Talks: Palestinians Unmoved As Israel Presents Border Ideas

Israel Palestinian Talks

Posted: 01/27/2012 3:42 am


By Jihan Abdalla and Dan Williams

RAMALLAH/JERUSALEM, Jan 27 (Reuters) - Israel has presented Palestinians with its ideas for the borders and security arrangements of a future Palestinian state, in a bid to keep exploratory talks alive, Palestinian and Israeli sources said on Friday.

However, Palestinian officials said the verbal presentation by Israeli negotiator Yitzhak Molcho at a meeting on Wednesday was a non-starter, envisaging a fenced-off territory of cantons that would preserve most Jewish settlements.

"He killed the two-state solution, set aside previous agreements and international law," said a Palestinian Liberation Organisation source. "Basically, the Israeli idea of a Palestinian state is made up of a wall and settlements."

It was the first time Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's administration has broached the issue of borders with Palestinians. An Israeli official said the presentation was in line with a framework for talks set by the Quartet -- the United States, European union, Russia and the United Nations.

Its aim is to ensure that the core issues of borders and security were clearly set out by Jan. 26, with the goal of relaunching negotiations stalled since November 2010, to reach a framework peace accord by the end of this year.

After five rounds of talks in Jordan, including Wednesday's session, the Palestinian source said there are no more meetings scheduled. Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has said he wants to consult Arab League states on the next move.

According to the Palestinian source, Molcho's team suggested that any solution creating a Palestinian state living in peace alongside Israel needs to "preserve the social and economic fabric of all communities, Jewish or Palestinian".

The idea presented by Molcho "does not include Jerusalem and the Jordan valley, and includes almost all (Jewish) settlements", the Palestinian official said.

No maps were presented at the meeting, he added.


GUIDING PRINCIPLES

The Palestinians want a state including the West Bank, the Jordan Valley, East Jerusalem and Gaza.

The Gaza Strip is ruled by the Islamist Hamas faction which rejects a permanent peace settlement with Israel and refuses to recognise it. Politically and geographically, Gaza is split off from Abbas's West Bank territory.

An Israeli official said Molcho presented guiding principles that determine Israel's positions on the territorial issue.

Israel's approach to territorial compromise in the occupied West Bank includes the principal that "most Israelis will be under Israeli sovereignty and obviously most Palestinians will be under Palestinian sovereignty", the official said.

He noted that Netanyahu had acknowledged, in a speech to the United States Congress, that not all Jewish settlements "will be on our side of the border" of a future Palestinian state.

"We think it is very important that these talks continue. They are only at a preliminary stage, but they contain potential and obviously in less than a month it would have been illogical to talk about a breakthough," he said.

"But in many ways the talks are progressing better than expected and it would indeed be a pity to bring about a premature ending of this process."

Palestinians dispute this. "The Israelis brought nothing new in these meetings," said one official familiar with the talks.

Peace negotiations foundered in late 2010 over a Palestinian demand that Israel suspend settlement building in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem. (Reporting by Jihan Abdalla and Dan Williams. Writing by Douglas Hamilton; editing by Crispian Balmer)

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By Jihan Abdalla and Dan Williams RAMALLAH/JERUSALEM, Jan 27 (Reuters) - Israel has presented Palestinians with its ideas for the borders and security arrangements of a future Palesti...
By Jihan Abdalla and Dan Williams RAMALLAH/JERUSALEM, Jan 27 (Reuters) - Israel has presented Palestinians with its ideas for the borders and security arrangements of a future Palesti...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Galilee
I boycott products from Syria & Gaza dictatorships
07:46 AM on 01/29/2012
Palestinians Unmoved?

Here's how to move the Palestinians:
1. Israel should close its border to Gaza forcing them to trade with Egypt and use the hospitals of Arab regimes.
2. Israel should put a border around the Palestinian Authority areas in Judea, leaving them with a border crossing to Jordan.

That's how Israel should woo the Palestinians. After this, they'll either become Jordanian and Egyptian again, or they'll be moved to compromise.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Yarden
Tel Aviv dude
05:43 PM on 01/29/2012
Ofcourse the Palestinians never wanted to be illegally occupied by Jordan and Egypt in the first place. You think Gazan's wanted to live in poor conditions under Egyptian rule with no allowance of travel? But people sure do forget a huge part of history since it makes there arab brothers look bad!
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01:26 AM on 01/29/2012
Israel has made over a dozen peace offers with a contiguous two state solution that have all been rejected by the Palestinians. All future offers will be rejected too. The Palestinians have said it themselves----there will be no peace with the Jewish state. It is what they say to their kids, what they say in their media, what their politicians say in Arabic. The destruction of israel is the only outcome they will accept. Israel has a choice, be strong and survive, or be weak and be destroyed. It is that simple and it is what most Arabs say also.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
warmonkey
09:40 AM on 01/29/2012
How do you figure that Israel has made "over a dozen" peace offers?
07:35 PM on 01/29/2012
I don't "figure" it. It is historical fact. Just read Dennis Ross' book, "The Missing Peace" in which Bill Clinton's special Middle East peace negotiator outlines several formal proposals were made to Arafat all of which were turned down without counter. And that does not include any of the offers made by the Olmert government.
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MelissaGoldman
One moment in time--RIP Whitney
04:12 PM on 01/28/2012
And Israelis are unmoved that palestinians still don't have a state. So are most Americans for that matter....
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Sonic hedgehog
A true word needs no oath
07:50 PM on 01/28/2012
If they are so unmoved, why have they been negotiating with them for a future state for all those years?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
njoytday
10:58 PM on 01/28/2012
Becasue they are shooting missiles on civilians
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
warmonkey
09:28 AM on 01/29/2012
They are just PRETENDING to go along with the "Palestinian State" thing. For all these years.
Isn't it obvious?
01:27 AM on 01/29/2012
The israelis are unmoved that the Palestinians have been offered a state a dozen times but they refuse to accept israel's existence to get it.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
noiz001
03:06 PM on 01/28/2012
"The Palestinians want a state including the West Bank, the Jordan Valley, East Jerusalem and Gaza."
And they say that Israelis brought nothing new to the meeting?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
njoytday
11:00 PM on 01/28/2012
Too bad what they want. Right now it is not theirs to want. East jerusalem is Jeruslam which is Israeli. Settlements are already there and people live there and will not leave.
What is Pal offering other than a cessation of terror?
01:28 AM on 01/29/2012
The Palestinians want a state that includes Israel accepting 4.5 million hostile arabs into pre 1967 Israel. In other words, they still seek Israel's destruction.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Sonic hedgehog
A true word needs no oath
02:04 PM on 01/29/2012
Those people have been living as refugees, how do you know that they are hostile (all 4.5 million of them)?
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SamSeven
You're either with Humanity or you're not.
04:24 PM on 01/29/2012
They want to move back to their homes. Obligation Israel refuses to acknowledge since it is responsible for the refugees it caused during the so called 'war of independence.'
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Djay0252
America needs to Bless God
01:59 PM on 01/28/2012
The exploritory talks will not go beyond that. Israel will never make an offer that Palestine can accept and they get off the hook.
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02:45 PM on 01/28/2012
Indeed, Israel would never offer to commit a collective suicide, and, it is very clear by now, the Muslim-Arabs, local and regional, would not be pleased with anything short of this.
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njoytday
11:01 PM on 01/28/2012
Yes even though they too are committing suicide.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
noiz001
02:56 PM on 01/28/2012
You got that right, no matter how much Israel gives up to the Palestinians they will never accept it... and that gets the Palestinians off the hook from making peace.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
njoytday
11:02 PM on 01/28/2012
Thye are not peaceful
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BGosh
Certifiably Fatwahfiable
09:24 AM on 01/28/2012
Ah, Reuters. Never met an Israeli argument that makes sense to them. Israel can offer a state 3 times with 3 maps delivered by 3 different Prime Ministers, and the Palestinians can reject it every time, and Reuters will still fault Israel. Because they're the jouranlists, and I am not.

Stay classy.
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09:37 AM on 01/28/2012
Specifically, Israel, since the commencement of the present "peace talks" in Madrid in 1991 made the following offers:

1) Mr. Yitzthaq Rabin's October 1995, rejected

2) Mr. Ehud Baraq, Summer 2000, rejected

3) Mr. Ariel Sharon, Summer 2005, rejected

4) Mr. Ehud Olmert, Autumn 2008, rejected

5) Mr. Benjamin Netanjahu, Winter 2012, rejected

History is such that all rejected have been accompanied by violence and terror against the Jewish civilian population of Israel; an act akin to that of blackmailer who don't get their demands.

Are we up to more violence now carried out by the Muslim-Arabs against the Jewish population of Israel...??
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04:03 PM on 01/28/2012
The entire Arab position is "give us what we want, or we'll kill you."
It's the only conflict mediation process in history where the side with none of the leverage beyond the threat of force wants to make all of the preconditions and demands.

Flat out ridiculous.
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04:01 PM on 01/28/2012
I wish I could fan you again.
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08:40 AM on 01/28/2012
Two points:

A. All peace talks to date have been based on UN Security Council Resolution, 242, of 1967. The resolution, it must be emphasized, does not call for the setting up of an additional state between the Jordan River and the Med. Sea. Indeed, 242 doesn't even make use of concepts such as "Palestinians" or "Palestine".

B. The reason, of course, is because "Palestine" - the name of a territory, not a nationality or a state - was already partitioned, back in 1921 and 1922. At the time, 77% of he territory was handed over to the Arabs who, subsequently, called their part Jordan, since "Palestine" is not an Arab term. And, 23% of the territory, between the Jordan River and the Med. Sea, was assigned to the Jews who, subsequently, called their part Israel since "Palestine" is not a Jewish term either.

It is high time the parties, with the help of the international community, learn to live with that partition that is enshrined in international law.
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09:08 AM on 01/28/2012
P.S. Israel, since the Madrid Peace Conference, 1991, has gone out of the way, eager to rich an accommodation of peaceful coexistence between Arab and Jew, between the Muslim-Arab world, local and regional, and in the process was willing to take major security and national risks, but all of its proposals, offers and gestures during the past 20 years have gone on deaf ears.

Of all, the Rabin proposal of October 1995 was probably the most realistic. The late Mr. Rabin, dubbed the prince of peace worldwide, drew a contour of a "Palestinian state" in his very last speech at Israel's Knesset:

1) Jerusalem will remain united under Israel's sovereignty
2) All major settlement blocs will be incorporated into the sovereign state of Israel
3) The Jordan Valley must be viewed in the widest sense of the term and it too will remain under Israel's rule
4) The future "Palestinian state" will not be a regular one: it will be demilitarized, while its airspace will be controlled by Israel, as will its boundaries and all border passes: land, sea and air.

Netanjahu's proposal is very similar to that of Rabin who was both a man of peace and a Jewish patriot.
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kanamartin
I vote democrat, but I'm no liberal!
12:24 AM on 01/28/2012
Respondents were asked about US President Barack Obama’s statement that “there should be two states: Palestine as the homeland for the Palestinian people and Israel as the homeland for the Jewish people.”

Just 34% said they accepted that concept, while 61% rejected it.

What about the idea of phased destruction that Yasser Arafat said all along was the goal of the Palestinian Authority? Well, the Palestinians are still on board with that.

Sixty-six percent said the Palestinians’ real goal should be to start with a two-state solution but then move to it all being one Palestinian state.

It isn’t Israeli hearts and minds that need changing. It is the Palestinians. And settlements don’t seem to be the real obstacle to peace. Look at these findings:

Asked about the fate of Jerusalem, 92% said it should be the capital of Palestine, 1% said the capital of Israel, 3% the capital of both, and 4% a neutral international city.

Seventy-two percent backed denying the thousands of years of Jewish history in Jerusalem, 62% supported kidnapping IDF soldiers and holding them hostage, and 53% were in favor or teaching songs about hating Jews in Palestinian schools.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Sam Bark
It's a MAD world after all...
02:11 AM on 01/28/2012
kanaM -- well said F&F
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
50Yard
09:26 PM on 01/27/2012
Bibi is making the same mistake the the Arabs have been making for 70 years. He is too stubborn, and prefer to be right than be smart. Bibi stop all building of settlement, sit down with the Palestinians and make it clear to them that they are dealing with a Jewish state, not a state called Israel. You will call their bluff in less than 3 days.
09:51 PM on 01/27/2012
"make it clear to them that they are dealing with a Jewish state"

You mean the '76% Jewish State'?
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10:23 PM on 01/27/2012
So you're complaining that Israel isn't the racist, apartheid nation posters are always whining about.

unbelievable
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
50Yard
10:35 PM on 01/27/2012
"You mean the '76% Jewish State'? "

Yes, it's in our declaration of independence. The 24% can practice what ever religion they belong to freely, and protected under the law. They don't have to be Jewish in order to be citizens.

The Arabs make no secret of the fact that they want to be a majority so they can turn it into an Islamic state. Isn't the one state solution is mostly for this reason?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Greg Mirsky
Riga dimd, Riga dimd, Kas to Rigu dimdinaj?
02:03 AM on 01/28/2012
Been there, done that. Remember 10 months of complete and total freeze of any construction in settlements and East Jerusalem? For what? For nothing. No one needs to see that Arab side is not really seeking peace but only how to suck more funds from UN, US and EU. Everyone knows that and only it makes them irritated when Israel demonstrates that again and again. The Quartet never did, nor it ever will apply equal requirements to both sides of the conflict, they will always lean heavily on Israel, demand more and more "hard choices". And if not for Liberman, Barak would have made Netaniuahu to cave in or would have brought the coalition down so that Livni could make the sale. And it not surprising to me, that Jews from former Soviet Union that carry on toughness of sabras today.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
50Yard
03:23 AM on 01/28/2012
I am not suggesting to cave in. I am suggesting a strategy to expose the bluff of Abbas he sold so effectively that he is interested in peace. Even if we give them the entire state of Israel, we keep one city only, and insist that this city is a Jewish state they will not agree becaus the Quran doesn't permit it. We need to show the world that the issue is not the accupation. It's Muslim's racism the root caus of the conflict.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
50Yard
09:16 PM on 01/27/2012
OK, Israel will withdraw to the 67 borders, give up East Jerusalem and remove all the settlements. What do we do with Gaza? the big Elephant in the room. Without resolution to the Gaza problem every thing else is not relevant.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
GZLives
01:48 PM on 01/28/2012
Nothing ... they have no answer for that. Its as if everyone is just supposed to ignore this is half the Palestinian population.
01:34 AM on 01/29/2012
OK, Israel withdraws to the 67 borders and does not get peace. Some deal.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
50Yard
10:18 AM on 01/29/2012
Jerry

You didn't get my point. It wasn't meant to be taken literally.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Bob Metcalfe
Caught at 1st. slip trying to cut
08:58 PM on 01/27/2012
'a bid to keep exploratory talks alive,'
Ha! more likely in an effort to kill the talks without taking any blame.
06:44 PM on 01/27/2012
I see that the Israeli side were unable to present any form of map outlining their position on borders.

Anyone remember back in 2008 when Olmert showed Abbas a proposed map and then refused to give a copy to Abbas for consideration.

No wonder the Palestinians are fed up with the Israeli side playing sillybuggers!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
NTT
Fighting rants with facts
08:01 PM on 01/27/2012
Remind me: when did the Invented Nation present THEIR map? Any map??
08:46 PM on 01/27/2012
14 November 2011 the Palestinians submitted a map to the ME Quartet representatives.

Why do you not know this, don't you see/read the news?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
montecristo5000
08:47 PM on 01/27/2012
If you're going to start from that basis, no wonder they won't negotiate!
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tallen
panem et circenses
09:18 PM on 01/27/2012
The palestinians presented their map a long time ago.
In fact, it is found on their UN observer website

http://www.un.int/wcm/content/site/palestine/

Please note the map at the top of their page.

You might also notice that their map excludes virtually the entire nation of Israel.
06:22 PM on 01/27/2012
palestinians are not interested in negotiations,why should they,obama promised them that in his second term he will force the israelis to accept pa's terms.
06:45 PM on 01/27/2012
"obama promised them that in his second term he will force the israelis to accept pa's terms"

Did you make this absurd claim up all by yourself or did you get it from some pro-Israel blog site?
07:31 PM on 01/27/2012
actions speak lauder than ...you must have heard the expression before.obama is handing middle east to muslim brotherhood piece by piece,so it's not something i invented on my own.but then you are a palestinian mouthpiece so no wonder you reacted as you did to my post.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Tasies
08:09 PM on 01/27/2012
Nonsense, Obama is America´s first Jewish president.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
50Yard
09:33 PM on 01/27/2012
"Nonsense, Obama is America´s first Jewish president."

What will make him non Jewish? Can you elaborate?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Sam Bark
It's a MAD world after all...
01:53 AM on 01/28/2012
tasies -- keep your fairytales coming....there are so funny..............
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tallen
panem et circenses
05:37 PM on 01/27/2012
The only conflict on earth where the losing aggressor of an illegal war believes it has the right to set the terms of peace.

This article should have been titled; "Palestinians reject peace---again"
06:04 PM on 01/27/2012
International law forbids the retention of land taken in war. That is why we don't own Germany and Italy and Japan. The UN has decades of resolutions calling for a return to the 1967 borders.
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tallen
panem et circenses
06:43 PM on 01/27/2012
International law states that waging a war to annihilate a sovereign nation is a crime against humanity.
What the arabs are guilty of.

And--the UN specifically does NOT call for a return to the 67 borders. The various UN resolutions also place conditions on the arabs such as a willingness to accept peace...conditions the arabs reject.

And--just for your information, Germany's loss of land for waging its illegal war was finalized in 1990.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
NTT
Fighting rants with facts
07:59 PM on 01/27/2012
Actually, Germany, Italy and Japan all lost territory after WWII. Look it up before you use this as your argument, LOL!
However, Germany, Italy and Japan capitulated unconditionally. They accepted all conditions imposed by the victors. Let the Arabs do the same -- then we can discuss comparisons.
Next, UNSCR 242 (the only legally binding resolution in this respect does NOT require return to 1967 borders. It requires a territorial compromise.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Sonic hedgehog
A true word needs no oath
07:01 PM on 01/27/2012
The losing aggressors already signed peace agreements with Israel (except Syria). People in Palestine of today were not the aggressors since they didn't have a country then.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
NTT
Fighting rants with facts
07:54 PM on 01/27/2012
"People in Palestine of today" -- exactly what does that mean? You mean Arabs living in West Bank and Gaza? They commited numerous acts of aggression against Jews (even before the re-establishment of the Jewish state) and against Israel. "Palestinian" units participated in the wars of 1948, 1967 and 1973. Next ignorant claim, please.
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Sam Bark
It's a MAD world after all...
01:57 AM on 01/28/2012
Sonic, please explain how come they claim to own the land Israel reside on?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Tasies
05:01 PM on 01/27/2012
Let´s negotiate the pie while I ram it down my throat.
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05:36 PM on 01/27/2012
But we are not interested in the pie as much as we want to see you die chocking on it or any other way....
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Tasies
08:06 PM on 01/27/2012
... all the while devouring the pie and whining like victims.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Tasies
08:08 PM on 01/27/2012
... indeed, the faster and more you swallow up the pie, the greater the likelihood you´ll choke on it.
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50Yard
09:50 PM on 01/27/2012
"Let´s negotiate the pie while I ram it down my throat."

What's your idea of peace in the ME? Does it include Israel as existing Jewish state? even 67 borders?