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Newt Gingrich's Diminished Debate Ambitions

Lincoln Douglas Debate

First Posted: 02/ 1/2012 6:22 pm Updated: 02/ 1/2012 6:48 pm

According to Tuesday night's CNN exit polls, one of the few demographic segments that Gingrich won the Florida primary were voters for whom the debates were the "most important factor" in choosing a candidate. In this subset of Florida voters, Gingrich prevailed -- barely! -- pipping Romney by a 40-38 percent margin.

CNN doesn't have results on the same question from South Carolina, where I suspect Gingrich's sharp denunciations of debate moderators Juan Williams and John King did more than anything else to fire up voters and bring them to his side. The thin margin in Florida isn't that surprising, given that his debate performances in that state were not nearly as strong. And I can't help feeling like the way the voters respond to the debates is almost entirely superficial -- after all, lately Rick Santorum has been the one running a clinic on debate technique. But against the backdrop of Mitt and Newt's huge feud, and Newt's own pyrotechnic rages at the media, Santorum's more subtle argumentative arts are getting drowned out.

Nevertheless, Gingrich's result among voters who placed special importance on the debates indicates that the central premise of his candidacy has obtained some modicum of persistence. His argument there is two-fold. First, Gingrich maintains that in a debate with President Barack Obama, he will be better suited at establishing clear ideological contrasts than the "Massachusetts moderate" Romney. Second, his continual conjuring of debate face-offs with Obama are designed to stimulate that part of the electorate that likes to believe that Obama is some sort of stone idiot who can't talk without televised assistance. (A short memory that doesn't recall, say, the 2008 debates, or the March 2010 GOP retreat in Baltimore, is required for that to work.)

And Gingrich's demands for future debates are getting to be more ornate than Jay-Z's tour rider. After NBC staged a debate at which audience members were asked to sit on their hands and refrain from responding to the candidates' arguments, Gingrich registered his strenuous objections. And since then, he's gotten considerably more outlandish, saying that in the general election, he'll refuse to participate in any debates that are moderated by reporters. Of course, Gingrich's dream is to restage the "Lincoln-Douglas debates" of yore -- he wants to meet Obama in seven four-hour contests of endless, unmoderated yammering, before an unrestrained audience.

To that end, it would appear Gingrich has reached out to historians for help in making the case that these tete-a-tetes would benefit the nation. One of the people he contacted was Harry Holzer, historian and author of “The Lincoln-Douglas Debates: The First Complete, Unexpurgated Text.” But in an op-ed in last week's Washington Post, Holzer argues that Gingrich is really overrating those beloved Lincoln-Douglas debates. "As I’ve told Gingrich, the problem is that, as famous as the debates are, their reputation far outweighs their value. And they’re hardly an inspiring model for modern candidates seeking to showcase their oratorical skills," he wrote.

As Holzer points out, those debates were actually sort of a chaotic shitshow:

These lengthy rhetorical bouts tested the endurance of the audiences and the candidates. Rather than inspiring memorable words, they proved for the most part an embarrassment. The encounters were brutally sarcastic, featuring highly personal attacks rather than elevated discourse. And while they were the first major political forums transcribed by stenographers, the debates were not even accurately published. The texts we know today were massaged by partisan editors eager to make their candidate sound less garbled. Newspapers of the era were openly connected to major parties — imagine Fox or MSNBC editing debate tapes before broadcast.

It's also gratifying to know that every nimrod scold who writes endlessly about how the political discourse In America has only recently become debased (usually because of blogging) is wrong and can be dismissed as a tiresome bore:

With little to entertain them outside church and county fairs, Americans flocked by the thousands to political events. Spectators stood for hours, toted banners, hocked wares, fired cannons, downed hard drink and raucously interrupted speakers with hurrahs and harassment — there was no Brian Williams-like proscription against audience response.

It was not uncommon for fistfights to break out in the farthest reaches of these large crowds, where the unamplified voices of the debaters seldom reached. During one debate, a Republican smeared excrement on Douglas’s carriage.

Now, there's virtually no chance that we're going see the "Lincoln Douglas debates" -- excrement smears or no -- restaged during this election cycle, no matter who wins the GOP nomination. The general election debates are run by the Commission on Presidential Debates and are typically staid affairs. And Gingrich, who needs to participate in debates now in order to make the case he'll be the best debater later, isn't going to have the opportunities going forward that he's already had. So the issue of debates is going to lose some salience. In fact, those same exit polls that indicated Gingrich was having success among those who thought debates were important contained other results that suggested diminishing returns. Yes, among voters looking for a "true conservative," Gingrich beat Romney by a 44-11 percent margin. However, for those who placed a higher priority on defeating Obama, Romney was their guy, 58-33 percent.

Still, the irony of Gingrich wanting to get matched up in a series of Lincoln-Douglas debates is delicious. No, they were not the refined venues of presidential oratory and intellectual substance that he makes them out to be. But after reading Holzer's historical recounting, it's pretty clear that Gingrich would have been ideally suited for them.

READ THE WHOLE THING:
The Lincoln-Douglas debates weren’t as great as Gingrich thinks [Washington Post]

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According to Tuesday night's CNN exit polls, one of the few demographic segments that Gingrich won the Florida primary were voters for whom the debates were the "most important factor" in choosing a c...
According to Tuesday night's CNN exit polls, one of the few demographic segments that Gingrich won the Florida primary were voters for whom the debates were the "most important factor" in choosing a c...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
pragmaticalpaula
"all is impermanent."
04:37 AM on 02/03/2012
Newt wants to change the way they do the debate, just so he can talk longer. He just can't get enough of himself.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
l78lancer
Wisdom is the principal thing
01:44 AM on 02/03/2012
Newt is a diva. Who knew?
09:16 PM on 02/02/2012
It is good see that Newt was not rewarded for his anti-capitalist populist rhetoric. Newt is trying to fan up populist anger and he does not care if in the process he misuse terms like good capitalism and bad capitalism or gives the public the wrong idea about how capitalism works and how the economy grows. Nor does he care if he hurts the ability of the GOP to argue for free market solutions.
http://www.examiner.com/bloomington-economic-policy-in-springfield/good-capitalism-vs-bad-capitalism
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Lawyer13
retired Lawyer, General and Psychiatric Nurse, wit
04:09 AM on 02/02/2012
A view from across the pond : Newt Gingrich would DIMINISH ANYTHING by just being there.
stephan67
Eternity and a day
02:54 AM on 02/02/2012
Gingrich, fly to the moon and continue your campaign there.
nonethewyzzer
Master of neither subtlety nor style.....
07:01 AM on 02/02/2012
The Moon called, they don't want him, either.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
10:21 AM on 02/02/2012
LOL
10:33 PM on 02/01/2012
Jobs????? Or moon walking???
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Lawyer13
retired Lawyer, General and Psychiatric Nurse, wit
04:10 AM on 02/02/2012
Good one !!! F & F from London England
09:48 PM on 02/01/2012
I haven't seen all the GOP debates (because I worry the craziness is contagious upon too much exposure); however, in those I did see, Newt wasn't debating. I saw him attack the moderator. I saw him try to weasel out of standing behind his attacks made on other candidates outside the debates. I saw him attack entire groups of people (e.g. based on race, etc.).

Perhaps it would be more accurate to describe him as an out of control dog attacking anything in sight but definitely not a debate.
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viennawoods
Proud to be a Canadian Liberal!!
11:37 PM on 02/01/2012
I thought that Jon Stewart had the best assessment of newt's debate demeanour. He said it looked like Newt was giving someone the finger the whole time.
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08:45 PM on 02/01/2012
Newt needs to learn the difference between religion and being a Christian.
09:50 PM on 02/01/2012
Newt needs to learn many things but somehow I doubt he learns much of anything because he's usually too busy shouting and never listening.
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viennawoods
Proud to be a Canadian Liberal!!
11:37 PM on 02/01/2012
Not shouting. Sneering.
08:05 PM on 02/01/2012
Newt got some early states voters based on the fact that he was perceived as a very good debator. He has proven that he is average at best. The fact that he has average debate skills, bad ideas, and tons of baggage hopefully takes him out of the race.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Skiwee
Just taking my time...
07:38 PM on 02/01/2012
Why would anyone waste their time and spend 7hrs talking to Newt is beyond me!
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rick in minnesota
My sentiments, exactly.
07:34 PM on 02/01/2012
Gingrich should debate himself. I'd watch.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Lawyer13
retired Lawyer, General and Psychiatric Nurse, wit
04:12 AM on 02/02/2012
Me too. F & F from London England
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
efffox
The truth is NOT halfway between right and wrong
07:22 PM on 02/01/2012
It doesn't matter who President Obama debates - he will wipe the floor with them. Besides, the Republicans haven't had to debate using TRUTH - they won't know how to react when faced with FACTS!!
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Lawyer13
retired Lawyer, General and Psychiatric Nurse, wit
04:14 AM on 02/02/2012
Totally BRILLIANT insightful post. F & F from London England
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camelias and sweet tea
Small drinking village with a shrimping problem
07:21 PM on 02/01/2012
Catch up with the World Mr. History...People do not need to go to four hour debates anymore, that was all they had to do for any sort of entertainment in those days..... It is 2012....
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07:00 PM on 02/01/2012
Newt is a goner.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Lawyer13
retired Lawyer, General and Psychiatric Nurse, wit
04:15 AM on 02/02/2012
So Right, and you get your first fan all the way from London England and good luck. F & F