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Proposition 8 Decision Has Unclear Path To Supreme Court, Experts Say

Prop 8 Decision

By LISA LEFF   02/08/12 05:28 AM ET  AP

SAN FRANCISCO -- Conservative critics like to point out that the federal appeals court that just declared California's same-sex marriage ban to be unconstitutional has its decisions overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court more often than other judicial circuits, a record that could prove predictive if the high court agrees to review the gay marriage case on appeal.

Yet legal experts seemed to think the panel of the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit of Appeals struck down the voter-approved ban on Tuesday purposefully served up its 2-1 opinion in a narrow way and seasoned it with established holdings so the Supreme Court would be less tempted to bite.

The appeals court not only limited the scope of its decision to California, even though the 9th Circuit also has jurisdiction in eight other western states, but relied on the Supreme Court's own 1996 decision overturning a Colorado measure that outlawed discrimination protections for gay people to argue that the voter-approved Proposition 8 violated the civil rights of gay and lesbian Californians.

That approach makes it much less likely the high court would find it necessary to step in, as it might have if the 9th Circuit panel had concluded that any state laws or amendments limiting marriage to a man and a woman run afoul of the U.S. Constitution's promise of equal treatment, several analysts said.

"There is no reason to believe four justices on the Supreme Court, which is what it takes to grant (an appeal) petition, are champing at the bit to take this issue on," University of Michigan law school professor Steve Sanders said. "The liberals on the court are going to recognize this was a sensible, sound decision that doesn't get ahead of the national debate ... and I don't think the decision would be so objectionable to the court's conservatives that they would see a reason to reach out and smack the 9th Circuit."

Lawyers for the coalition of religious conservative groups that qualified Proposition 8 for the November 2008 ballot and campaigned for its passage said they have not decided whether to ask a bigger 9th Circuit to rehear the case or to take an appeal directly to the Supreme Court. However, they said they were optimistic that if the high court accepts an appeal, Tuesday's ruling would be reversed.

"The 9th Circuit's decision is completely out of step with every other federal appellate and Supreme Court decision in American history on the subject of marriage, but it really doesn't come as a surprise, given the history of the 9th Circuit, which is often overturned," Andy Pugno, the coalition's general counsel, said in a fundraising letter to Proposition 8's supporters. "Ever since the beginning of this case, we've known that the battle to preserve traditional marriage will ultimately be won or lost not here, but rather in the U.S. Supreme Court."

Regardless of their next steps, gay and lesbian couples were unlikely to be able to get married in California anytime soon. The 9th Circuit panel's ruling will not take effect until after the deadline passes in two weeks for Proposition 8's backers to appeal to a larger panel, and the earliest the Supreme Court could consider whether to take the case would be in the fall.

Judge Stephen Reinhardt, who was named to the 9th Circuit by President Jimmy Carter and has a reputation as the court's liberal lion, wrote Tuesday's 80-page majority ruling with concurrence from Judge Michael Daly Hawkins, an early appointee of President Bill Clinton. Judge Randy Smith, who was the last 9th Circuit judge nominated by President George W. Bush, dissented.

In tailoring the decision to apply only to California, Reinhardt cited two factors that distinguish Proposition 8 from the one-man, one-woman marriage laws and constitutional amendments in the other 9th Circuit states and that he said demonstrate that it "serves no purpose, and has no effect, other than to lessen the status and humanity of gays and lesbians."

The first is that California since 2005 has granted same-sex couples all the rights and benefits of marriage if they register as domestic partners. The second is that five months before Proposition 8 was enacted as a state constitutional amendment, the California Supreme Court's Court had legalized same-sex marriage by striking down a pair of laws that had limited marriage to a man and a woman. California is the only state, therefore, where gays have won the right to marry and had it stripped away.

The amendment's "singular" work of denying gay Californians the designation of marriage while leaving in place domestic partnerships proves that Proposition 8's deprive same-sex relationships of society's dignity and respect, Reinhardt wrote.

"A rose by any other name may smell as sweet, but to the couple desiring to enter into a committed lifelong relationship, a marriage by the name of `registered domestic partnership' does not," he said. "We are excited to see someone ask, `Will you marry me?', whether on bended knee in a restaurant or in text splashed across a stadium Jumbotron. Certainly, it would not have the same effect to see, `Will you enter into a registered domestic partnership with me?'"

The opinion goes on to draw parallels between California's same-sex marriage ban and the Colorado opinion the Supreme Court struck down on a 6-3 vote after concluding that it was based on moral disapproval of gays. Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote the majority opinion in that case, known as Romer v. Evans, and if the court agrees to take up Proposition 8, the similarities could hit the "sweet spot" that might persuade him to side with four other justices in upholding the 9th Circuit, said Douglas NeJaime, an associate professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles.

"Everyone is looking to Justice Kennedy, assuming that Justice Kennedy would not issue a sweepingly bad decision for gay rights, and yet people don't know if he is ready to go so far as to say nationwide same-sex couples can get married," NeJaime said. "I think the opinion evidences a real savviness about the posture of this case and its position in the trajectory of a national movement for marriage for same sex couples."

Smith, the lone dissenting judge, disagreed that Proposition 8 necessarily served no purpose other than to treat gays and lesbians as second-class citizens. He pointed out that its backers claimed it could serve to promote responsible child-rearing among opposite-sex couples, and said courts were obligated to uphold laws in the face of civil rights challenges unless they were "clearly wrong, a display of arbitrary power (or) not an exercise of judgment."

"There is good reason for this restraint," Smith said.

___

Associated Press writers Paul Elias, Garance Burke and Terence Chea in San Francisco, and Raquel Dillon in Los Angeles contributed to this report.

___

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SAN FRANCISCO -- Conservative critics like to point out that the federal appeals court that just declared California's same-sex marriage ban to be unconstitutional has its decisions overturned by the ...
SAN FRANCISCO -- Conservative critics like to point out that the federal appeals court that just declared California's same-sex marriage ban to be unconstitutional has its decisions overturned by the ...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Adam of CA
Independent Information Hunter
03:07 PM on 02/08/2012
After this long road to judgment, the decision will be appealed again. Too much has been invested by the Pro & Con lawyers to let it rest quietly in the law journals. Game On!
02:30 PM on 02/08/2012
looks like Adam Bouska is gonna need a job Adriana.
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GDWhiteman
Christian mystic iconoclast
02:01 PM on 02/08/2012
Help me here - I'm a straight married guy. What do people mean when they talk about a "homosexual lifestyle"? I think it has something to do with sexual practices, but I don't see how. Like many hetero couples, my wife and I engage in every sex act said to be practiced by homosexuals. There's also one that my wife and I do that homosexuals don't. I just doesn't make sense to me to condemn people for *not* doing a particular sexual thing.

Then there's the "threat to marriage" they talk about. Same-sex marriages have been going on for a number of years now, but I haven't seen any effect on my marriage or anyone else's that I know of. When I ask people who say same-sex marriage is a threat what they mean, they either ignore me or refuse to tell me - sometimes they dismiss me by telling me that I should know - but I don't.

Some mention the Bible. As an ordained Christian pastor, I'm quite familiar with the Bible including in the original languages. I have yet to find a single reference to loving same-sex relationships or a definition of marriage. I'm at a total loss as to why people would object to consenting adults making the commitment of marriage.

Until someone gives me a satisfactory explanation or this injustice is corrected, I'm not going to marry hetero couples here in Texas.
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GDWhiteman
Christian mystic iconoclast
04:30 PM on 02/08/2012
Another thing I wonder about - why is it that so many of the replies to my comments get blocked by HP? I wonder if those people don't like me or something ;)
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
NovemberScorp
01:36 PM on 02/08/2012
Just remember that it takes both black and white keys to play the Star Spangled Banner. To you Log Cabin Republicans ... let me spell it out .... discrimination in any form will not be tolerated and pity on you for begging for acceptance from the Repulsive Party. Please get a grip on yourselves and start learning some self respect and esteem.
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Frank-ly Speaking
This ain't my first time at the rodeo. . .
03:08 PM on 02/08/2012
Self-loathing is deep seated and often denied.
03:04 PM on 02/09/2012
and it eminates daily from the white house.
perfect post.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
houseofd
An educated, informed American is a true Patriot.
01:14 PM on 02/08/2012
"We must conclude that Amendment 2 classifies homosexuals not to further a proper legislative end but to make them unequal to everyone else. This Colorado cannot do. A State cannot so deem a class of persons a stranger to its laws."

Kennedy
Romer v. Evans (1996)

"Today's opinion dismantles the structure of constitutional law that has permitted a distinction to be made between heterosexual and homosexual unions, insofar as formal recognition in marriage is concerned. If moral disapprobation of homosexual conduct is "no legitimate state interest" for purposes of proscribing that conduct, and if, as the Court coos (casting aside all pretense of neutrality), "[w]hen sexuality finds overt expression in intimate conduct with another person, the conduct can be but one element in a personal bond that is more enduring," what justification could there possibly be for denying the benefits of marriage to homosexual couples exercising "[t]he liberty protected by the Constitution"? Surely not the encouragement of procreation, since the sterile and the elderly are allowed to marry."

Scalia
Lawrence v. Texas (2003)

Prediction: If a swing vote is necessary, Kennedy will be it, and write the decision in favor of gay marriage, if it is brought to the current stable of SCOTUS justices, with the sole caveat being what judges are in whose pockets.

An aggressive prediction in favor:

Yes: Kennedy, Scalia, Alito (Worked for decriminalization of sodomy at Princeton), Sotomayor, Breyer, Bader Ginsburg, Kagan
No: Thomas, Roberts

Interested in thoughtful opinions from both sides.
01:45 PM on 02/08/2012
I question Roberts no vote only because he seems very intent recently to keep the court from looking like a partisan tool. Agree that Thomas will disregard precedent and pull his typical "it's not enumerated in the constitution" rhetoric and vote no.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
houseofd
An educated, informed American is a true Patriot.
03:22 PM on 02/08/2012
Very possible. The introduction of SCOTUS into the discussion makes it feel almost a brand new argument. That is, should they take the case.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Awake-and-Sing
named after a great play written by Clifford Odets
01:51 PM on 02/08/2012
I agree with you if the court is likely to hear this case.

However, the Los Angeles Times made a compelling argument why the Supreme Court may not get involved with THIS particular case and wait until another case comes along.
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Frank-ly Speaking
This ain't my first time at the rodeo. . .
03:14 PM on 02/08/2012
Truly, why would they feel any necessity to intervene in something that has been "decided" so many times? There will be other cases that might just pose different questions. I've read the commments about Roberts' concern about the perceptions of the public and of history; in this case, the wisest appraoch would be a 'hands off" one.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
houseofd
An educated, informed American is a true Patriot.
03:20 PM on 02/08/2012
Do you have that link handy?

Should Obama clinch a second term, the likelihood of more SCOTUS appointments by him may compel a few more years of patience for those who want this social change.
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Horus45
Liberal Activist, anti-Fascist
01:08 PM on 02/08/2012
The existence of the Log Cabin Republicans boggles my mind.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
NovemberScorp
01:31 PM on 02/08/2012
boggles theirs too ... they so want to be accepted and yet the Repulsive Party just ignores them at best and discriminates at worst. Sorta smacks of S & M don't ya think?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Awake-and-Sing
named after a great play written by Clifford Odets
01:32 PM on 02/08/2012
I understand what they are trying to do -- change the Republican Party from within.

I do not support them because conservatism has proven disastrous for America, but if they can create more Ted Olsen's and Meghan McCain's who support our equality more power to them..

However, I do not understand GOProud at all. They seem to be the biggest bunch of self-hating gays around.
02:16 PM on 02/08/2012
Agree, the log cabins goal is commendable but I think they are fighting a loosing battle.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
HippieChick
Still thinking about tomorrow
12:58 PM on 02/08/2012
It would be interesting to see if the rabid rightwing Supreme "Corporations Are People Too" Court would be inclined to deny that gay and lesbian Californians are people with equal rights. We just may see several heads attached to black-robed bodies explode trying to make that discrimination philosophy happen.
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kenofksa
My micro won't meet your guidelines
12:58 PM on 02/08/2012
The 9th Circus will be overturned once again. Let the majority rule.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Awake-and-Sing
named after a great play written by Clifford Odets
01:20 PM on 02/08/2012
Don't seem to understand the constitution I see.

Maybe this book will help you:
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/us-constitution-for-dummies-cheat-sheet.html
03:11 PM on 02/09/2012
better crack that cover again your self...presume this is on your bookshelf already.
apparent you have no concept of 'constitutional equality'.... which does not apply to multiple groups each 'claiming' to provide the same service without elemental equality of it's constituents.
Or for you..... it does not protect Apples claiming to be Tomatoes.
01:26 PM on 02/08/2012
The majority, as expressed by billions of dollars from the LDS church's advertisements!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Awake-and-Sing
named after a great play written by Clifford Odets
12:42 PM on 02/08/2012
Articles are appearing about how Mormon families donated their life savings or children's college funds to support Proposition 8 based on instruction from church elders.

If I belonged to a church that told me that I HAD to donate my children's college savings account to advance the cause of hate and bigotry and discrimination or I'd no longer be a member, I'd have long since left that church for a new one.
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Frank-ly Speaking
This ain't my first time at the rodeo. . .
01:08 PM on 02/08/2012
There's a line in an old Janis Ian song -- "Pity please the ones who serve; they only get what they deserve."
01:09 PM on 02/08/2012
I was snarking about their involvement down the page a bit. They threw -billions- at this thing.
01:48 PM on 02/08/2012
What goes around comes around.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Sita001
mocking the afflicted since 1966
12:38 PM on 02/08/2012
If this is taken up by the court; I am certain a great deal of noise about the Mormon church's involvement in funding and organizing to pass Prop 8 will be made.
Just how good will that be for the likely 1st Mormon presidential candidate?
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Frank-ly Speaking
This ain't my first time at the rodeo. . .
01:15 PM on 02/08/2012
I wonder how much he contributed personally?
12:36 PM on 02/08/2012
The people of every State have a fundamental right to change their constitution through the amendment process as long as the proposed change does not conflict with the Federal Constituion. The Federal government does not recognize same sex marriage. In fact, it prohibits it by law (DOMA). The courts have no right to overturn a constitutional amendment passeed by a majority of the people.
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Frank-ly Speaking
This ain't my first time at the rodeo. . .
12:58 PM on 02/08/2012
Awwwwwwwwwww. Sowwy.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
HippieChick
Still thinking about tomorrow
01:02 PM on 02/08/2012
Maybe ... however, the "constitutional amendment" you refer to was passed by genetically inferior intellectually challenged animosity-filled trolls.
03:26 PM on 02/09/2012
and reversed by mindless twits who care not a wit about the constitution which protects the AZZes of moronic posters to abuse those with a differing opinion.
Awwwwwwwwwwwwww....Sowwwwy!
12:35 PM on 02/08/2012
Gay people should not be allowed to marry. That is a "sacred" thing between a man and a woman. With that being said - Should one be allowed to carry the other on their insurance - Yes, but only if couples who are "shaking up" should be allowed to do so also. Marriage is one thing, a civil union is another - Maybe gay folks would get a lot more if they would just accept it for what it is. It is NOT a marriage -
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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yeti7
don't need no stink'n badges
12:20 PM on 02/08/2012
OK California you had your chance now you learned that it is not the job of government to tell people who they can marry or who they can't. But out of peoples private lives.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
HHarvey
Do not feed the trolls
02:44 PM on 02/08/2012
it wasn't CA, it was outside money (mostly Mormon and Catholics) who butted into our state politics. Trust me, the way they had people signing petitions during the Prop 8 thing was very underhanded. I personally know several people who thought they were voting for gay rights when they were really voting against it.
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yeti7
don't need no stink'n badges
05:28 PM on 02/08/2012
oh well then they weren't too bright were they
03:32 PM on 02/09/2012
Petitions do not pass laws. VOTERS do. People went to the polls and voted in a distinct majority....
there will always be a few dim bulbs who canot figure out what they were voting for, but THIS one was in plain English...oh wait... this is California. Only 10% left that speak English. My bad.
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yeti7
don't need no stink'n badges
05:14 PM on 02/09/2012
trbilbo-i know but it still isn't the government job to an adult couple they cannot marry legally.
Now I am waiting for the plural marriage debate.
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RobChattaTN
there's no such thing as objectivity
12:17 PM on 02/08/2012
once more, making policy the majority of Americans WANT!
that's the way it should be
(as opposed to the 'oppositio­n' imposing the will of a few hysterical radicals on us all)

Would love it if the Supremes chose to NOT take the case and let the ruling stand!
03:35 PM on 02/09/2012
the MAJORITY of Americans voted FOR this law in AP polls...nationwide....and of course in person at the voting booth in California...
the hysterical radical managed to get Government oce again to say the People do not have the right to majority vote on how their taxes get spent even tho NO CASE law was presented.
This bought votes.... and brought more dependents unnder Obama's control.
READ...THINK...POST
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ira Meyers
Blogger,Proud Liberal
12:16 PM on 02/08/2012
In this country, you can not vote on another citizens rights. If it does not effect you, why would you care. This case has been bogus from the start. If Mormons want to practice their own religion with their rules, I am fine with that. Now stay the hell out of California or we will start picketing that monument to bigotry on Santa Monica Blvd.
03:37 PM on 02/09/2012
Wish people would stop miusing RIGHTS. Thhis is not a RIGHT anywhere in the constitution and people thinking it should be guaranteed are simply WRONG.
Much like the RIGHT to drive in California which now allows illegal aliens to be exempt from auot impounds when pulled over drunk.
RIGHTS ae clearly defined..... Neither THIS nor DRIVING is one of them.