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Bronx Church Allowed To Meet At New York City Public School, Judge Rules

Bronx Household Of Faith

LARRY NEUMEISTER   02/16/12 05:16 PM ET  AP

NEW YORK — A federal judge cleared the way Thursday for a tiny Bronx church to continue meeting for religious services at a New York City public school despite an appeals court ruling upholding the city's ban on use of the schools for worship services.

The ruling by U.S. District Judge Loretta Preska on a request for a temporary order while the facts are aired was the latest development in a 17-year-old legal battle. It came just as the city was beginning to enforce a New York City Board of Education policy that requires no permit be granted "for the purpose of holding religious worship services, or otherwise using a school as a house of worship," though it does allow community groups, even religious ones, to use its buildings.

She said the Bronx Household of Faith was likely to win its latest challenge to the city regulation on the grounds that the ban violates the First Amendment assurance that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. She also said the church had demonstrated it would suffer irreparable harm if it could not continue to use Public School 15 for Sunday morning worship services.

City attorney Jonathan Pines said he will seek an immediate appeal to the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Manhattan.

"This last-minute decision disrupts plans that both the city and congregations worked out months ago," he said.

Bronx Household of Faith Pastor Jack Roberts said he was pleased that the ruling enables those congregations renting school space to continue the practice for now.

"It was wonderful. We believe it is the right decision that Judge Preska made, and it gives us and the other 60 churches at least two more Sundays in the public schools, so we're elated," he said. "We see it as a spiritual battle."

Roberts said he believes the larger issue being fought was an effort "to minimize the impact of the Christian message in our local communities."

The appeals court last June overturned an earlier Preska ruling against the city. The U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear the case. The city permitted organizations staging church services to continue to use the schools until last Sunday.

A message for comment left with lawyers for the Bronx church was not immediately returned.

In a declaration filed in the case this week, Reformation Presbyterian Church Pastor Brad Hertzog wrote that his application to continue holding Bible study services for about 65 people at a school in Fresh Meadows, Queens, was denied by the city after he declined to answer yes or no to the question: "Are you conducting religious worship services?"

In its ruling last June, the 2nd Circuit noted that the while city policy excludes religious worship from its buildings, it does not exclude "prayer, singing hymns, religious instruction, expression of religious devotion, or the discussion of issues from a religious point of view."

__

Associated Press Writer Steve Coleman in Washington contributed to this report.

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NEW YORK — A federal judge cleared the way Thursday for a tiny Bronx church to continue meeting for religious services at a New York City public school despite an appeals court ruling upholding ...
NEW YORK — A federal judge cleared the way Thursday for a tiny Bronx church to continue meeting for religious services at a New York City public school despite an appeals court ruling upholding ...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
dbrett480
02:26 PM on 02/25/2012
This is a correct ruling. There is nothing wrong with a government building allowing a religious meeting as long as that same building is open to all religions.
11:46 AM on 02/21/2012
Its not a problem if they aren't using it during school hours. Why not? Hmmm
08:03 AM on 02/21/2012
A building or room rented out by anyone, private or public, is just a commercial transaction. If NY city rents out school space for other groups to use after school hours then I can't see why NYC officials would want to ban this group from renting the school on weekends for their services. After all, it's not like they are running the service for the school's students during school hours.
04:48 PM on 02/19/2012
It is clear that there are a lot of anti-religious people that clearly have a blind hatred for religion has a whole.

I would like to point out that your hatred is no different the hatred you claim to hate by christians. I find it ironic and very sad that many people here fail to see that problem but still spout such nasty things without regard for the humanity, free will, and choice of their fellow man.
04:38 PM on 02/19/2012
I am a little confused on the problem with letting a church use a school. I assume that by getting a permit they are PAYING the school, so this is not an issue with a publicly funded building being used for religious purposes. The school would be making a profit by essentially renting out the place, so it does not cost taxpayers it actually decreases the burden.

If you allow other organizations to use the school in such a manner then you cannot ban a church simply because it is a religious group. Either everyone can use it or no one can. What seems to be the problem?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
onwisconsin
Trust women; protect choice.
11:23 AM on 02/19/2012
It's fair use. If you allow the girl scouts, you must allow a church. They can't proselytize students or staff but they can use the building when it is usually dormant, just like any other group. Their money is just as green. I don't understand why people get up in arms about this. There are no issues with entanglement of church and state, it is simply fair use.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
onwisconsin
Trust women; protect choice.
11:39 AM on 02/19/2012
I'm actually using the wrong term but SCOTUS has ruled on this. I simply can't find it right now. Perhaps one of my colleagues in Ed Policy will remember and post.
08:02 AM on 02/19/2012
This seems so odd to me, as an employee who works in a school where a church uses the cafeteria for their services on Sunday. I even helped the pastor figure out the sound system at one point. The district also rents out the space to political parties for caucuses and conventions, as well as community groups for their events. It's really about money, and using the space when it's empty I suppose. It seems like such a non-issue.
Dragonlupin
Edit your micro-bio.
12:29 AM on 02/19/2012
The judge is wrong.
The appeals court already ruled on the matter.
12:04 AM on 02/19/2012
What is the problem?

The school district gets money.
The church gets a place to hold services.
Win-Win.

The building is empty Sundays anyway.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ron704
My Aspergers is kicking up again
02:44 AM on 02/19/2012
Gag on your win-win for using such a ridiculous cliche. The building was built with taxpayer dollars. It belongs to the city and the people. So what if it's empty on Sunday. Religion has no place in government.
07:39 AM on 02/19/2012
In case you didn't know...
People of faith pay taxes and help pay for schools, and are just as every part of the people you say the buildings belong to.

Services being held there and payed for by the congregations in no way constitute government endorsement of a particular religion.

Only idiots, or insufferable anti-faith bigots would turn down perfectly good rental money for buildings already paid to be operated on days when school is not in session.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
onwisconsin
Trust women; protect choice.
11:29 AM on 02/19/2012
Look, I'm an atheist. I have a lot of problems with church/state entanglements. But SCOTUS has been clear on this before. They've called it fair use. If a district provides space to any group (for a fee or for free), they must provide a space for all comers. Many school districts allow churches to use their auditoriums each weekend and on certain evenings of the week for a set fee. Their members may not proselytize students or staff. So, if a society of atheists wanted to meet on Thursdays at 9, they'd have to be accepted as well. Fees cover maintenance (usually janitorial staff and utitities).
03:05 PM on 02/18/2012
I am on the fence in terms of this issue, but it will be real interesting to see what happens when a Muslim group wants to use the public school facilities.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
demcratville
Science makes you think.
frankieshoes1
lookitupyerdamnedself
03:55 AM on 02/18/2012
"..it does not exclude "prayer, singing hymns, religious instruction, expression of religious devotion, or the discussion of issues from a religious point of view."

So what separates this list from religious worship is collections?
06:56 PM on 02/17/2012
Very soon you will not be able say you believe in Jesus, without being persecuted. Times are about to become very horrible for mankind.
07:10 PM on 02/17/2012
yes yes yes of course. Look at all the power religious groups throw around in the USA right now and for the past 30 years and whine to me about being persecuted.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ron704
My Aspergers is kicking up again
03:07 AM on 02/19/2012
And I'm getting more fed up with it by the day. They want to keep throwing their weight around, then it's time for the push back. Then there's that nasty bishop who got a promotion to cardinal, doing the brown shirt rotweiler's evil work.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jerry Troutman
My micro bio is still empty
02:03 PM on 02/18/2012
Well,if you want some comfort and don't have your Bible with you,just look at your money.It says In God we trust.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ron704
My Aspergers is kicking up again
03:08 AM on 02/19/2012
Comfort from a what? Nah, I get more comfort from my right hand, thanks.
03:07 PM on 02/17/2012
This does NOT establish religion if the school if there's no evidence of it when the school children are there.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ron704
My Aspergers is kicking up again
03:11 AM on 02/19/2012
Doesn't matter. Government buildings are not places of worship period. Not even if you worship dead cats.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
floridafun
Yes We Are!
08:27 AM on 02/19/2012
exactly. f&f
04:41 PM on 02/19/2012
The church is renting the building what seems to be the problem? this does not establish a state religion, it does not giver preference to anyone as long as they can pay for the space, it decreases the financial burden on the taxpayer by adding to city coffers.

This should not be such an issue.
12:48 PM on 02/17/2012
When I was in third grade, my elementary school was being remodeled and expanded. The project left my class without a classroom. The Episcopal Church across the street offered to allow us to use a meeting room (no religious symbols on the walls) for class. It worked out well and no one complained. Of course, that was a long time ago, when rationalism and reason were in vogue.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Hazelnut101
04:04 AM on 02/19/2012
Or before christians/church's began forcing their beliefs in Separation of church and State.