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Bill Moyers Talks With Poet Christian Wiman About Living With Cancer And Finding Faith (VIDEO)

First Posted: 02/23/2012 5:37 pm Updated: 02/24/2012 10:22 am

In a special preview of this weekend’s "Moyers & Company," poet Christian Wiman reads an excerpt from an essay he wrote for the Winter/Spring issue of the Harvard Divinity Bulletin about living with cancer, finding faith, and being sustained by family.

Below is an excerpt from Christian Wiman's essay in the Harvard Divinity Bulletin entitled "By Love We Are Led To God." Christian Wiman is the Editor of Poetry magazine.

At nearly sixty years old, m. finds that her faith has fallen away. She tells me that it was love that first led her to God. Thirty-five years earlier, love for the man who would be her husband for most of her life seemed to crack open the world and her heart at the same time, seemed to fuse those latent, living energies into a single flame, the name of which, she knew, was God. There were careers and children. There were homes laid claim to and relinquished. There was something perhaps too usual for a love that had torn her so wholly open, but time takes the edge o3 of any experience, life means mostly waiting for life, or remembering it—right? She tells me all this, right up to the depressingly undramatic divorce, at a table outside in far west Texas, the country of my own heart.

She asks me: How can a love that seemed so fated fail so utterly? How can a love that prompted me toward God become the very thing that kills my faith? Once, it seemed love lit the world from within and made it take on a sacred radiance, but somehow that fire burned through everything and now I walk lost in this land of ash. If God by means of love became belief in my heart, became the faith by which I lived and loved in return, then what should I believe now that my love is dead? Or no, not dead; that would be easier. Actual death cuts life off at the quick of your soul, but there is yet the quick to tell you what life was, assure you that life was. You grieve the reality of your loss, not the loss of your reality. That former grief is awful, and may seem unendurable, but at least it is more productive, for it is grief that has lost but not renounced life, grief that still feels to the root the living reality of love because it feels so utterly that absence. All I feel is that the life I felt, the love that once scalded me toward God, was a lie.

“Christ is contingency,” i tell m. as we cross the railroad tracks and walk down the dusty main street of this little town that is not the town where I was raised but both reassuringly and disconcertingly reminiscent of it: the ramshackle resiliency of the buildings around the square; Spanish rivering right next to rocklike English, the two fusing for a moment into a single dialect then splitting again; cowboys with creekbed faces stepping determinedly out of the convenience store with sky in their eyes and twelve-packs in their arms. I have spent the past four weeks in solitude, working on these little prose fragments that seem to be the only thing I can sustain, trying day and night to “figure out” just what it is I believe, a mission made more urgent by the fact that I have recently been diagnosed with an incurable but unpredictable cancer. How strange it is to be back in this place, where visible distance is so much a part of things that things acquire a kind of space, an otherness, a nowhere-ness, as if even the single scrub cedar outside the window where I’m working holds—in its precise little limbs, its assertive seasonless green—the fact of its absence.

Faith is not some hard, unchanging thing you cling to through the vicissitudes of life. Those who try to make it into this are doomed to become brittle, shattered creatures. Faith never grows harder, never so deviates from its nature and becomes actually destructive, than in the person who refuses to admit that faith is change. I don’t mean simply that faith changes (though there is that). I mean that, just as any sense of divinity that we have comes from the natural order of things, is in some ultimate sense within the natural order of things, so too faith is folded into change, is the mutable and messy process of our lives rather than any fixed, mental product. Those who cling to the latter are inevitably left with nothing to hold on to, or left holding on to some nothing into which they have poured the best parts of themselves. Omnipotent, eternal, omniscient—what in the world do these rotten words really mean? Are we able to imagine such attributes, much less perceive them? I don’t think so. Christ is the only way toward knowledge of God, and Christ is contingency.

The only way? Into my words, as into the things around me, seeps the silence that defeats them. Better to say that contingency is the only way toward knowledge of God, and contingency, for Christians, is the essence of incarnation. And incarnation, as well as the possibilities for salvation within it, precedes Christ’s presence in history:

Into the instant’s bliss never came one soul
Whose soul was not possessed by Christ,
Even in the eons Christ was not.

And still: some who cry the name of Christ
Live more remote from love
Than some who cry to a void they cannot name.

—after Dante

I wouldn’t want any of this to seem like I’m blaming m. for her suffering, or that I’m in any way refusing to acknowledge the full impact of it. (Christ is contingency? An absurd, even callous thing for me to have said to her at that moment. It was true, but the time and the context made it, in any ordinary human sense, false.) There is a sense in which love’s truth is proved by its end, by what it becomes in us, and what we, by virtue of love, become. But love, like faith, occurs in the innermost recesses of a person’s spirit, and we can see only inward in this regard, and not very clearly when it comes to that. And then, too, there can be great inner growth and strength in what seems, from the outside, like pure agony or destruction. In the tenderest spots of human experience, nothing is more offensive than intellectualized understanding. “Pain comes from the darkness / And we call it wisdom,” writes Randall Jarrell. “It is pain.”

Sorrow is so woven through us, so much a part of our souls, or at least any understanding of our souls that we are able to attain, that every experience is dyed with its color. This is why, even in moments of joy, part of that joy is the seams of ore that are our sorrow. They burn darkly and beautifully in the midst of joy, and they make joy the complete experience that it is. But they still burn.

And why this sorrow? Why its persistence, its involvement with all that is my soul? Childhood was difficult, and most of it remains inaccessible to me, but I was deeply loved. And I am capable of deep love now for the people in my life, for my work. I love the life that I have been granted in this deepening shadow of death. And it is not the prospect of my own death that sustains sorrow, for it preceded my sickness by many years, by all the years of my consciousness, in fact. And that is surely the reason right there—consciousness, which is a setting apart from reality, when all of reality is the expression of God.

For many people God is simply a gauze applied to the wound of not knowing, when in fact that wound has bled into every part of the world, is bleeding now in a way that is life if we acknowledge it, death if we don’t. Christ is contingency. Christ’s life is right now.

Despite the value and absolute necessity of spiritual solitude, Christ comes alive in the communion between people. When we are alone even joy is, in a way, sorrow’s flower: lovely, necessary, sustaining, but blooming in loneliness, rooted in grief. I’m not sure you can have Christian communion with other people without these moments in which sorrow has opened in you, and for you; and I am pretty certain that without shared social devotion one’s solitary experiences of God wither into a form of withholding, spiritual stinginess, the light of Christ growing ever fainter in the glooms of the self.

What this means is that even if you are socially shy and generally inarticulate about spiritual matters—and I say this as someone who finds casual social interactions often quite difficult and my own feelings about faith intractably mute—you must not swerve from the engagements God offers you. These will occur in the most unlikely places, and with people for whom your first instinct may be aversion. Dietrich Bonheoffer says that Christ is always stronger in our brother’s heart than in our own, which is to say, first, that we depend on others for our faith, and second, that the love of Christ is not something you can ever hoard. Human love catalyzes the love of Christ. And this explains why that love seems at once so forceful and so fugitive, and why, “while we speak of this, and yearn toward it,” as Augustine says, “we barely touch it in a quick shudder of the heart.”

For the entire essay please go to Harvard Divinity Bulletin


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In a special preview of this weekend’s "Moyers & Company," poet Christian Wiman reads an excerpt from an essay he wrote for the Winter/Spring issue of the Harvard Divinity Bulletin about living with...
In a special preview of this weekend’s "Moyers & Company," poet Christian Wiman reads an excerpt from an essay he wrote for the Winter/Spring issue of the Harvard Divinity Bulletin about living with...
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01:09 PM on 03/01/2012
It sucks because if you have cancer or any other life threatening illness, you almost HAVE to have faith. That doesn't necessarily have to be faith in a God, but it almost certainly means faith in those performing your treatments and surgeries. And I say it sucks because it's a transition from not believing in anything to being forced to believe in something. It's a literally a rock and a hard place.
05:26 AM on 02/27/2012
Fr. Timothy Eden of the Society of Mary offered a homily at Mass today in the Mystical Rose Oratory
on the Chaminade University campus in Honolulu that invites us to find God through our attentiveness to each other. He spoke of the "here and now" being the great equalizer offering us the opportunity to touch the Divine through our connectedness no matter what our pasts or what the future might hold.http://freecatholic808.com/2012/02/26/lenten-diary-2-god-in-the-here-and-now/
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LintLass
"When you can balance a tackhammer on your head...
07:52 PM on 02/26/2012
This interview actually had more good stuff about poetry than anything new about religion, I thought, but it was pretty good on that score.
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12:42 AM on 03/01/2012
I agree. It seemed to me to be a way "to sing the Blues." It is what we do when we are in pain and the condition is out of our hands. Both writing poetry and singing the Blues are evidence of being glad to be alive, even when the pain is so great we can barely bear it. And sometimes the results are beautiful enough to inspire others to be glad to be alive.
01:17 PM on 03/01/2012
Why confine religion? Poetry makes it alive..lived.. not restricted to any walls. Poetry can be also a place of worship..without a name. A sacred moment to connects all. Free like the wind, like the breath.
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LintLass
"When you can balance a tackhammer on your head...
01:55 PM on 03/01/2012
Oh, I certainly agree. (I'm Pagan: poetry's a particularly sacred pursuit to us. Especially if you're of Gaelic extraction, really. :) )

My comment was that I'd seen this interview and that what this poet had to say had really good stuff about the *poetry* and that very impulse, more than his particular religion.

I've always thought that if interfaith dialogue involved sending more poets and mystics and storytellers to talk to each other, it'd be a lot better than doctrinarians and politicians and missionairies/'soldiers,' actually.

That sort of things crosses traditions a lot better than theological arguments. :)
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Chris Hollier
10:02 PM on 02/25/2012
Really? My comment was deleted? This person can make demeaning claims about non-Christians but I can't post a joke about the flying spaghetti monster? Christians...
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Fenrir Lokison
I luv the sci fi of Evolution and the Big Bang
12:03 AM on 02/26/2012
I get many of my posts referring non-believers as a religion, sometimes the HP gods just work in mysterious ways.
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Ellen Lincourt
12:38 AM on 02/26/2012
Chris, have you ever thought that you are coming off as an angry, bitter, mirthless person? Look, what skin is it off your nose if this person speaks about his faith. How does it harm you? But you seem to have an absolute obsession with people of faith. You've posted here several times with a lot of unsuppressed anger. I'm sorry that you were hurt so badly at some point by someone who professed a faith. Good luck, but maybe you should consider that you are becoming exactly what you complain about.
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Chris Hollier
09:56 AM on 02/26/2012
Also, lets be honest...

A joke about the flying spaghetti monster comes across as angry, bitter, and mirthless?

Me thinks the religious needs to grow some thicker skin, especially when their own holy book says much worse about everyone else. The Bible calls me a "fool who does no good." Surely that's more of an insult then a FSM joke, right?
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Sistagirl Young
05:07 PM on 02/25/2012
Tryin' to explain GOD to a non believer is like tryin' to explain Einstien's Theory of Relativity to an infant. What's the point? Life.
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Sistagirl Young
05:04 PM on 02/25/2012
"(For we walk by Faith, not by sight:)" ll Corinthians 5:7.

"Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" Hebrews 11:1. Life. Folk think because a loved one isn't cured of cancer GOD doesn't care. Or a child dies GOD doesn't exist. "For who hath known the mind of The LORD, that he may instruct HIM? But we have the mind of CHRIST" l Corinthians 2:16. GOD's way are not man's way. Neither are HIS thoughts man's. Only with CHRIST as our intercessor have we any chance at all. Life.
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Chris Hollier
10:01 PM on 02/25/2012
I love Hebrews 11:1 because it paints faith in such a horrible way. Faith is needed when a claim doesn't have enough evidence to ration a belief. Suggesting that a belief in God needs faith says that there isn't enough evidence to warrent a belief in God so faith is needed.
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LintLass
"When you can balance a tackhammer on your head...
02:11 PM on 03/01/2012
I think it's a horrible definition of 'faith' some use to try and chain it to particular *belief*, (or to scourge the world of *all* belief, in too many cases lately: talk about atheists living down to bad press.)

Some, monotheists and atheists alike think that 'faith' is 'Believing in a dogma so hard you don't question it.' I don't think that's faith. I think that's trying to believe hard.

My definition: 'Belief is thinking you know something. Faith is not *needing* to.'

Faith is about *trust* Even in uncertainty. Not 'trust that x or y is truth,' ...just trust.

I think I have faith: but that's not cause I believe I have some idea how the 'verse is put together. (I think I *might,* I like to think I worked on that,) ...my faith in *my* Gods, or just plain 'faith,' is more about *being allowed to be wrong.* I'm not afraid of *being* wrong, and that means a certain amount of freedom to *find out* about things. Cause I have that trust. Somehow.

It's a trust that can mean *embracing* uncertainty, not trying to banish it, and it's a trust that means new information is a new wonder, not a new 'threat to faith.'

There's two kinds of detectives: those who love a mystery and those who hate a mystery: some can't stand not knowing, and some love the process of learning.

Faith kind of just is.
02:28 PM on 02/25/2012
Faith is very strengthening and comforting in toughest of times.
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10:34 AM on 02/25/2012
I feel for the woman and her pains and tribulations but sometimes life is just awful things that happen to good people without the need to involve a god who may or may not exist.
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12:42 AM on 02/25/2012
My measure of religion is to be glad to be alive. I am torn by this article between admiring, as someone who is able to write so powerfully, someone glad to be alive or someone who seems still to be looking elsewhere for some kind of answer. I admit my judgment depends on my own gratitude. But I also believe that anyone who has been glad to be alive has had the best that life has to offer. I am willing to bet I would find that in his poems.
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ShipCritic
NYC Dog Lover
03:15 PM on 02/25/2012
Beautifully said. While there is breath there is hope
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John Shuck
Properly used, profanity is punctuation.
12:18 AM on 02/25/2012
Life is what it is.....and then, it isn't. For all living things, us included.
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saami
Cranky old lady
03:03 PM on 02/24/2012
The Propher says it best:
Then a woman said, "Speak to us of Joy and Sorrow."

And he answered:

Your joy is your sorrow unmasked.

And the selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears.

And how else can it be?

The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain.

Is not the cup that hold your wine the very cup that was burned in the potter's oven?

And is not the lute that soothes your spirit, the very wood that was hollowed with knives?

When you are joyous, look deep into your heart and you shall find it is only that which has given you sorrow that is giving you joy.

When you are sorrowful look again in your heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight.

Some of you say, "Joy is greater than sorrow," and others say, "Nay, sorrow is the greater."

But I say unto you, they are inseparable.

Together they come, and when one sits alone with you at your board, remember that the other is asleep upon your bed.

Verily you are suspended like scales between your sorrow and your joy.

Only when you are empty are you at standstill and balanced.

When the treasure-keeper lifts you to weigh his gold and his silver, needs must your joy or your sorrow rise or fall.
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JohnFromCensornati
Free your mind and your ass will follow.
01:40 PM on 02/24/2012
The One Who Watches Words is very judgmental today.
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