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Philadelphia Convention Plans Lead To Rift In Occupy Movement

Posted: 02/23/12 07:25 PM ET

In early November, Nathan Kleinman, an Occupy protester in Philadelphia, received an email from someone named Michael Pollok who said he was part of a group of protesters affiliated with the Occupy movement. Pollok said the group planned to hold a convention in Philadelphia during the week of July 4, when 876 delegates from congressional districts around the country would draft "a petition for a redress of grievances" to be presented to Congress.

Kleinman didn't like the idea, and he didn't think it would go over well with other people at Occupy Philly either. He had a few specific concerns, chief among them the fact that the event involved a representative model of government, as opposed to the consensus model that has characterized the Occupy movement from the beginning.

"I explained all that and had a back-and-forth with him. He got increasingly testy and his responses were increasingly dismissive, and so eventually I gave up on him and figured he'd go away," said Kleinman. "But that's not what happened clearly."

This week, the Associated Press and other media outlets reported on Pollok's plans for the convention, unleashing a bitter debate among occupiers over the question of who has the right to represent the movement. (The Huffington Post posted the AP story.)

After Pollok reached out to Kleinman, critics within Occupy Philly said, people involved in his organization, the 99% Declaration Working Group, brought their plans to the General Assembly of Occupy Philly. Just as Kleinman had warned Pollok, those ideas met with disapproval.

Rumors circulated through multiple Occupy sites that Pollok wanted to create his own party; there was vague talk of a power grab. "It was clear that he was trying to co-opt the energy of the movement," said Kleinman, "and it was not clear what those purposes were."

Many people involved in the Occupy movement were galled that Pollok seemed to be purporting to represent the movement as a whole. "It's not something these guys really have the right to do," said Aaron Black, a participant in Occupy Wall Street. "I suppose everybody can use the word 'occupy,' but I feel like this is extremely misleading and it's not something we support."

For his part, Pollok, a lawyer who advised Occupy protesters arrested on the Brooklyn Bridge last year, said he has no plans to start a new political party. He said he never claimed to represent the Occupy movement and noted that a press release about the convention plans described his group's members as "former" occupiers. But he added, "We have just as much a right to be part of the Occupy movement and the 99% movement as anybody."

Beyond that issue of legitimacy, the conflict has been fueled by a question crucial to the future of the Occupy movement: To what extent is the movement willing to engage with the mainstream political system? Pollok drew a distinction between the 99% Declaration Working Group and its critics in the Occupy movement, saying that his contingent wants to "reform" the system while its opponents want to "tear it down."

In reality, the division isn't so clear. Many who disapprove of Pollok's plans have said they are willing to work with the government. Aaron Black, from Occupy Wall Street, said he was one of at least 50 or 60 people from Occupy movements around the country who have met with members of Congress in recent months in an attempt to persuade them to outlaw corporate personhood.

The difference, Black argued, is that they present themselves as individual occupiers, not representatives of the movement. He also said they're acting with the support of the general assemblies in their cities.

In fact, no one embodies a willingness to work within the system more fully than Nathan Kleinman, who initially tried to discourage Pollok from holding the convention. For about a month, he has been running for Congress in the 14th District of Pennsylvania as a Democrat.

"I don't believe that Congress is the be-all end-all for how to improve the country," Kleinman said. "I'm still involved in Occupy Philly, but I'm in favor of a multipronged approach."

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07:31 AM on 03/16/2012
The 99% Declaration announced to the NYCGA on 10-15-11. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le5YI_QPPKk&context=C48c69c2ADvjVQa1PpcFNNHqZwyo9PAcZ7HrJ61DVboY1-8CVqHuI%3D
01:34 PM on 03/07/2012
If it is our constitutional right to demand a redress of our grievances, and through a large INTERNET voting, we select people to write up the grievances we all agreed on.. why is that so wrong? Why is obeying the Constitution wrong?

I support the Occupy Movement, and I also am running as a delegate candidate for Nebraska, District 1 at http://www.the99declaration.org/ I feel I must do more than hold a few signs and camp. I will stand up to our Government and proudly hand them a list of grievances, and DEMAND they FIX IT.. as it is their job and they are being paid by ME AND YOU!
01:34 PM on 03/07/2012
Like i totally DISAGREE with making ANY deals with the local government concerning leaving our Occupation. ... yet the GA voted to agree to leave to "work with Lincoln City council", althoug many people who can not make the GA expressed they did not agree...Mind you, the only reason the city council wanted an agreement is so that they can get bidders for the renovation at the mall... and why are they using $$ to renovate a perfectly good place in a time when people are STARVING AND HOMELESS? Since I can not attend the GA's like MANY OTHERS, my voice and opinions do not count. That makes the GA process a fatal flaw in managing the country as a whole.

When I was able to attend a GA in Lincoln.. the group could not agree on a event offered, and it was split 50/50.. yet was the idea tabled for another GA so more info could be provided the next day.. no.. voted down.. so how is that right?

The GA process is great for managing the encampment and local events.. but alas.. real action is what will change our Government. Right now we are just flies buzzing around. Occupations to be removed one by one. How long do you think people will keep coming out to support us when we make no change?
01:34 PM on 03/07/2012
Being a law student, and a proud supporter of our Constitution, I personally feel that the only way to fix our Government is not to Destroy it, but to RESTORE it. I like how our government is set up and without corruption, it can and does work. If we root out the corrupt, we can restore our constitution to its rightful place.

I went to Occupy Wall Street in the first week of October, and was under the impression we wanted to FIX our country and world around us, not destroy and re-write it. I want my country to be restored to the way it was imagined to be... Land of the free!

I can not attend the GA's at Lincoln or Omaha 98% of the time. I care for an elderly woman and the times the GA's are usually an interference with her schedule's.
Another reason I have not attended is because my 4 year old becomes a distraction during the meeting. Ever tried to get a 4 year old to sit still and be quiet, OUTSIDE, for an hour or more? IMPOSSIBLE.. and disruptive to the GA. Being a single mother with few close friends, and NO family here.. I do not have the privilege of finding a babysitter to watch my son so I can go to a GA to express my feelings.

I feel the GA is not set up to represent the 99% equally.
lcpnr
American conservative
04:50 PM on 02/27/2012
Obama's Warrior Squatters
08:01 AM on 02/27/2012
I don't see what's wrong with having a converntion. Although I've supported OWS and even have it advertised on my car and clothing the message of fighting back in the class war benefitting the 1% seems to be taking a back seat to everyone with any issue what-so-ever. A more focused group supporting wall street reform, business regulation, closing the wealth gap and making the rich pay their fair share in taxes IMHO would be much more effective.
01:42 PM on 02/26/2012
Occupy Wall Street has successfully created a population of online critics who can't seem to get enough of Occupy Wall Street.
12:31 PM on 02/26/2012
Question: What is more annoying OWS or the people who read every Occupy article and then comment on how no one cares about OWS?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Andrew Nutra
01:02 PM on 02/26/2012
Isn't it ironic, don't you think?
01:05 PM on 02/26/2012
OWS because they disrupt people's lives on a daily basis and have a record of costing people money as well as vandalism.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Andrew Nutra
01:26 PM on 02/26/2012
Money that could be going to city services are instead going to police and sanitation overtime. For once I'd love to see them pull their theater at a NASCAR rally, or in Sturgis.
12:15 PM on 02/26/2012
Another party is a great idea. Mainly because the country is under the thumb of
two actually, and those that want to add more are called radicals, extremists and
names before they even open the door, because the public is more anxious to name
call and put down anything that doesn't wear a suit.
A convention of round table reps on the issues that concern everybody is a great way
to involve the public as well, because they are hyped by the lobbyists as 'bums' and
'lazy people," rather than what specific action they risk getting arrested for, or
abused by the army of police. The God is Money club doesn't understand any
of it - and in history, there were many differences between debaters who had
different ways of seeing things, but the media has been pushing shallow stuff
with these panels based only on attacks. We have yet to hear an intelligent
objective discussion from any of them.
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WASanford
I think, therefore I am mad as hell!
11:48 AM on 02/26/2012
I was under the impression that these two groups were at best loosely associated. I've been to the 99% website and have made some suggestions to put in their petition even though I don't think it will cause much to change. It's highly dubious that this do-nothing congress will be receptive to any demand for action.

And that's too bad, with a 10% approval rating it's hard to see this congress as a legitimate legislative body. With congress this weak, it's a wonder that the president hasn't just taken over as a dictator. Thank God we have a president who wouldn't even think of doing that! These have been dangerous days.
12:24 PM on 02/26/2012
If only people would get off dividing their parties; attacking anyone who doesn't agree
with them, and taking back their offered support because that person is not agreeing
with their tunnel visiion, a do nothing Congress would never exist. The only fear the
politicians have no matter how corrupt they are, or whom they really represent, are
the masses. The power in many and the public is blind to even see that they are
the ones allowing the few to run the country, and money over people's lives, and
that's a greater issue about our future than whines and complaints and anger
that goes nowhere. If one million people come forward as they did in Wisconsin
with a petition to oust a governor they elected who threatened their everyday
welfare, the majority starts to work as one voice. Unfortunately, nobody gets
that they are the government, and they created that 10% to run them.
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WASanford
I think, therefore I am mad as hell!
06:34 PM on 02/26/2012
Thank you for reading and replying to my comment. This congress is a Tea Party invention in as much as they've effectively split the Republican party between themselves and their establishment, The disaffected electorate went along with the experiment by electing these newcomers. If this is an indication of how well congress can legislate with a major party split, God help us if if we create an actual third party.

you are correct when you say that co-operation is more effective that the discord that we're currently experiencing. There is always a common ground, but no one seems to have the will to find it or the courage to propose it.

This nation needs a new congress. Hopefully, this nation will have the good sense to throw the squabblers out and replace them with those who are willing to find compromise!
11:32 AM on 02/26/2012
Some people are disappointed or dismiss OWS because they haven't seen enough immediate change. I'm reminded of the scene near the end of the film "Force 10 from Navarone:" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxYur1sqnK4
Right now the OWS movement is at approximately the 3 min. 30 sec. mark of that clip.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
williamabn
I Doubt , Therefore I might be
01:31 PM on 02/26/2012
Oh , goody , More links and reference's to Hollywood movies . I said it before . They think there in some reality show . They are entitled to never get permits when everyone else dose , They can destroy property and have others clean there mess's up . They can break the law and still feel entitled to all there rights . And after all that , No leadership and no real legal plans for change . Way to go .
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Andrew Nutra
02:04 PM on 02/26/2012
Every time I click on these posted links I always get the gag video of Rick Astley singing "Together Forever." I'm not gonna fall for that again.
03:50 PM on 02/26/2012
You're talking about bankers, right? I couldn't agree more!
11:03 AM on 02/26/2012
Oooh poor me, I want to be rich. But I don't want to go to school or work because it's just so hard!
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psileste
I love you
11:15 AM on 02/26/2012
They say ignorance is bliss, and maybe it is, for the ignorant. But it sure is frustrating for everyone around them.
07:04 PM on 02/26/2012
If you can do a little math. Try 5,000 arrests and they're all out from
the services of lawyers, and professionals that you can't even afford,
and if you take all of Congress and put them up against only five
OWS in any debate, you will finally get that they are far more
educated, far more intelligent than what you elect to represent
you as a candidate, so ask the lawyers who service them for
nothing if they would do it for a Congressmen or Senator??
What is frustrating truly is that a lot of these so called ignorant
have not only master degrees, but doctorates that cost a lot
money, and there is no bliss in ignorance, -just blanks.
11:19 AM on 02/26/2012
Ignorant you are. ~ Yoda
10:33 AM on 02/26/2012
Occupy Wall Street has had a huge effect on changing the political game. Since they movement started have you noticed how much discussion there is about income equality, and I don’t mean income distribution, in the halls of Congress, the press (print, television, and internet). We may even accomplish closing tax credits and loop holes and limiting corporate welfare. The biggest difference you will see from OWS will be at the ballot box in November. There are 99% of Americans represented in the movement. The OWS movement has survived the attacks from the paramilitary police forces, the denial of First Amendment rights, a cold winter, and general misinformation about it. Remember the 1% has the money but we have the power of the vote, if we use it. The people united will never be defeated.
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Andrew Nutra
10:59 AM on 02/26/2012
I'm part of the 99% how do I opt out from your representation?
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WASanford
I think, therefore I am mad as hell!
11:21 AM on 02/26/2012
You don't! In a democracy the will of the people is sovereign. That's why we have popular elections that express the will of the people. Our representatives serve at the pleasure of the majority of their constituents and the trouble comes when they don't do that. If you can't go along with that, you're living in the wrong country.

Sovereignty = the right to rule
11:23 AM on 02/26/2012
"When the student is ready the teacher will appear". Once your mind is capable of understanding the movement, and getting beyond the sound bites, you will understand. I wouldn't expect otherwise.
11:04 AM on 02/26/2012
duh-looshional. occupy is a bunch of lazy whiners that don't want to earn their own way in the world.
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psileste
I love you
11:29 AM on 02/26/2012
Protesting the inability to earn one's way in the world =/= not wanting to earn one's way in the world. Quite the opposite.

Either you don't understand the movement at all (which would make you delus -- excuse me, duh-looshional) or you're deliberately misrepresenting the movement. Which is it?
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cigi
11:58 AM on 02/26/2012
Yeah, tell that to the 40+MILLION people who are out of work or underemployed. I guess they are whiners too. Better yet, come up with a plan for all the recent college graduates who can't find a job to pay back their college loans, which the Pubies, plan to double the interest rate for their government loans in June. It is real easy to call people names when they have no power or voice. I believe the OWC has made it abundantly clear that there is a huge divide in power, financial equality, and just the ability to find a job to support yourself....it DOES exist in America and it is to our shame. The only thing different from the 1930s Depression and now is that we have a "few" social safety nets that keep us from totally going off the rails. This country, with the help of selfish Americans who think "I got mine" so everyone else can do it and to hell with you if you can't, well you are the demise and downfall of this nation. America is currently in a race to the bottom and third-world status. The so-called "whiners" are victims, not perpretrators of this mess.
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Andrew Nutra
10:23 AM on 02/26/2012
If OWS does something and Huff Pro isn't there to report it, does it make a sound?
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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FGW
Republicans, You Don't Speak For Me, So Stop Lying
11:38 AM on 02/26/2012
Don't know, you will have to wait and see!!!